Guild Wars 2

Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second.
Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
Pistol Whip. Reduced the after cast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.
Deadly Arts VI – Sundering Strikes. Increased the trigger chance from 50%. Remove ICD. Decrease Vulnerability duration to 6s.
Critical Strikes VI – Practiced Tolerance. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%.
Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.
Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
Critical Strike X – Critical Haste. Increase trigger chance to 25%.
Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.
Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 4s from 8s.
Acrobatics IV – Assassin’s Retreat. Increased swiftness duration to 20s.
Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
Acrobatics X – Assassins Reward. Increased healing scaling by 35%. Moved to Grandmaster Tier.
Acrobatics XI – Hard to catch. Moved to Master Tier.
Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier.
Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 8s.
Trickery VIII – Trickster. Move to Adept tier.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview

Just re-roll to a guard or warrior.

More initiative with some minor trade offs IMO. Looks more like a buff than a nerf but I don’t really go into the Acro or Trick lines.

Zero Day.2594:

Just re-roll to a guard or warrior.

Warrior is going to feel a fairly large nerf with that patch. Curious to see how it effects the overall warrior builds.

If I remember correctly, wasn’t the thief supposed to have 1 initiative per second during the previews?

Finally, now that this class is getting obliterated we might actually see some good changes.

I’m fine with the changes. The initiative change will be good for any thief not traited for int regen. Obviously perma stealth is dead now, but thats not too bad. The biggest problem i have is the lack on condi removal thieves will have now. Our main source of condi removal came from shadow arts, so i guess we will see how that plays out. Perma stealth was never that great in tpvp, so i think overall tpvp thieves will be fine. We will probably see more 10/30/0/0/30 thieves using d/p.

Straegen.2938:

Zero Day.2594:

Just re-roll to a guard or warrior.

Warrior is going to feel a fairly large nerf with that patch. Curious to see how it effects the overall warrior builds.

As far as I can tell with the warrior’s nerfs is geared more towards the hammer. They will still be stunning out the kitten , just not doing so much damage whilst stunning. They should still be able to excel just like before…
Personally, I already have a lvl 38 warrior in making. Though always contemplating switching to a guardian.

Fade.7658:

Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second.
Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.
Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 4s from 8s.
Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 8s.

There we go..

R.I.P. D/P WvW
R.I.P. D/P 10/30/0/0/30
R.I.P. S/D 10/30/0/0/30
R.I.P. S/D 10/30/0/30/0

My skull crack warrior will still be dropping people like crazy. Increased cast time on the crack and no more unsuspecting foe, which was OP IMO. Instead I can get like leg spec or something else. I still crit a lot with 70% instead of 100.

Thief class is dead after the patch.

Goodbye s/d evade builds.
Goodbye d/p stealth builds.

Oh wait, we get better healing when spending init and easier access to htc which doesn’t work on basi venom and some other abilities if I remember correctly last time I tried it.

pantsforbirds.9032:

I’m fine with the changes. The initiative change will be good for any thief not traited for int regen. Obviously perma stealth is dead now, but thats not too bad. The biggest problem i have is the lack on condi removal thieves will have now. Our main source of condi removal came from shadow arts, so i guess we will see how that plays out. Perma stealth was never that great in tpvp, so i think overall tpvp thieves will be fine. We will probably see more 10/30/0/0/30 thieves using d/p.

I don’t understand why they increased base init regen, and then just reduced the traits with affect init regen. It feels like Init regen will mostly stay the same for most builds – why not replace the init regen traits which now look like kitten (Opportunist, Quick recovery, klepto), with traits that actually help define the traitline?

Ini regen will be worse in general. Opportunist was that good, actually this is a major nerf to s/p, once again.

pantsforbirds.9032:

The biggest problem i have is the lack on condi removal thieves will have now. Our main source of condi removal came from shadow arts, so i guess we will see how that plays out.

Did I miss something? Shadow Step the skill still works the same and Shadow’s Embrace is untouched. S/? and D/P might have less but IMO D/P was a somewhat crappy mechanic.

Zero Day.2594:

As far as I can tell with the warrior’s nerfs is geared more towards the hammer. They will still be stunning out the kitten , just not doing so much damage whilst stunning. They should still be able to excel just like before…

Ehh… Control warriors won’t be able to stun, GS then easily switch to the hammer and maintain DPS which is what makes them dangerous. The run, stun and blades is a gimmick that frequently sees a warrior eating a nasty CnD/BS combo.

Skull crack also comes with a longer animation which doesn’t sound that bad but now it will be telegraphed which hurts its effectiveness against skilled players. Prior to this skull crack was almost impossible to see coming.

Opprtunist nerf = heavy sustained dps nerf for PVE…nice one arenanerf

First impression.

Let’s see so our base regen will be increased (nice) but a lot of traitlines will be deemed useless to compensate (time to create some new traits?), vigor upkeep nerfed (perma vigor on all classes that had it with no effort and low cd’s was to strong anyway so good), sword mainhand probably killed cause the flow won’t be smooth (sounds bad), permastealth made harder especially with d/p setups (good).

Then they keep pushing useless traits like hard to catch into play when they are more a counter to a thief then a protection, if you want to give us more survival make it more realiable not something that puts you off your target or pushes you in walls and whatnot.

Same for buffing our quickness proc when the duration was never changed since quickness nerf to begin with.

-Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

This seems a change done right, for Quick recovery however i suggest just creating a new trait, or adding something extra like the Signet use has in terms of Signet cooldown.

Overall some decent changes, but feels like the compensation however lacks a bit.

Time to play my good ol’ D/P while I got the chance..

That’s a VERY HUGE nerf bat. LOTS of builds will not be played anymore, and without giving us a chance to create new ones I fear that thieves will just become annoying dolyiak slayers in wvwvw who have to run if they encouter someone.

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

Puru.4217:

Ini regen will be worse in general. Opportunist was that good, actually this is a major nerf to s/p, once again.

I think not so much. At 1 attack per second and a crit every .75 attacks over 15s

Old: 15 * .75 = 11.25 crits over 15s. 30%/1s cooldown = 3.375 init regen
New: 15 * .75 = 11.25 crits over 15s. 50%/5s cooldown = 3 init regen

A thief will be pegging a net loss regen every 45 seconds of sustained attack. These are of course rough numbers but still the effect isn’t going to be particularly dramatic at least on this change. Slower attack chains will notice even less.

Oh, I know…
They want constructive feedback… I think I will add some for the Thief.

Back-stab builds will still be overpowered, let’s reduce the side-strike trait to 2% chance. Reduce a bit of damage on Back-Stab it self. Hidden killer should be reduced from 100% to 25%.
Sneak-attack on pistol, right now stacks a bit too many bleeds. The number of times shot using that skill should be reduced from 5 to 2. The normal attack on the pistol should no longer apply a bleed effect
Black powder should be as suggested, powder, only blinding one enemy without an AoE effect.
Executioner should be decreased from 20% to 10%.
Backfighting increase damage from 50% to 150%, thieves generally fight when they’re downed, so it’s a good idea to provide a buff and expand build options.

Did I forget any other changes the thieves should get? Gonna post it as a suggestion in that post…
Think these would be some solid changes… Would greatly open up thief builds (for instance, re-rolling to warrior build, or re-rolling to guardian build).

That’s hardly relevant and WAY too less. Many of the nerfs are not even asked for. None of those things really needed a nerf, but the ungodly high backstab/stealth burst DPS needs a nerf. Not this.

So nerfs are needed for Thieves, but in totally different areas.

elikal.7356:

That’s hardly relevant and WAY too less. Many of the nerfs are not even asked for. None of those things really needed a nerf, but the ungodly high backstab/stealth burst DPS needs a nerf. Not this.

So nerfs are needed for Thieves, but in totally different areas.

You should take your rant to a more appropriate post.

elikal.7356:

So nerfs are needed for Thieves, but in totally different areas.

Please pitch in and suggest them in their post.

To all people that think init regen is better now or kinda the same as before, the answer is NO its way far behind from what it was just because of this one change:

Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.

This is a HUGE nerf, the change from 30-50% proc is just useless when they add a CD increased from 1s to 5s means at least 5 less init regen while fighting, This is a BIG nerf on PvP and PvE

Zero Day.2594:

elikal.7356:

So nerfs are needed for Thieves, but in totally different areas.

Please pitch in and suggest them in their post.

Oof, fair request, but I fear I am not up to it. The skill system has so many details. The general idea would not a nerf, but a CHANGE.

Thieves lose most of the high burst DPS or applying insidious stacks of bleed, and in turn get greater survivability. More like rebuilding the entire class and virtually making the stealth ONLY as a method to escape, not as part of an attack strategy. I would prefer a full rebuild over a mere nerf. Thieves should not be weaker, but different. Less of the overpowering glasscannons which attack from endless stealth.

I see this variant of Thief as a broken idea. The invis-burst-DPS roamer must be eliminated as viable playstyle.

Wow i never thought i would say this but seriously ive invested so much time in my theif its the only class i play ive got 5 different sets of weapons and armor for the 5 builds i run all day ive spent since day one perfecting my theif and have not complained once but this nerf is the last straw im finally gonna have to throw in the towel cause this is just starting to get rediculous im done playing a class just is just gonna keep getting crapped on like this i understand nerf perma stealth but everything rlly all im left with now thats viable is my p/d build thnx for ruining theif for me anet thnx!

elikal.7356:

Zero Day.2594:

elikal.7356:

So nerfs are needed for Thieves, but in totally different areas.

Please pitch in and suggest them in their post.

Oof, fair request, but I fear I am not up to it. The skill system has so many details. The general idea would not a nerf, but a CHANGE.

Thieves lose most of the high burst DPS or applying insidious stacks of bleed, and in turn get greater survivability. More like rebuilding the entire class and virtually making the stealth ONLY as a method to escape, not as part of an attack strategy. I would prefer a full rebuild over a mere nerf. Thieves should not be weaker, but different. Less of the overpowering glasscannons which attack from endless stealth.

I see this variant of Thief as a broken idea. The invis-burst-DPS roamer must be eliminated as viable playstyle.

i beleive the class ur looking for is the warrior go roll one this is a theif not a tank

IMVPO the main issue comes down to this:

The skills of Thieves are ressource based. So he has control over his attacks way more than any other class, who has timers. A thief can reset the fight and re-enter it ANY TIME as ever he decides and you can do NOTHING against that. If he runs away invisible you burn out AOE and then you are on timer = a sitting duck.

His ressource based attacks can be spammed unlimited, while the other classes have timers and THAT is where the Thief beats you. He waits when you are in the timer gap and from there you have zero escape. Whereas the Thief can stay in stealth virtually indefinitely.

Walker.3056:

Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.

This is a HUGE nerf, the change from 30-50% proc is just useless when they add a CD increased from 1s to 5s means at least 5 less init regen while fighting, This is a BIG nerf on PvP and PvE

Unless my math is off above it is a minor change. More like 1-2 init regen of the life of a fight.

This didn’t proc every attack but every .3 crits. Going to a .5 crit chance over 5s really won’t change much since we are time gated on attacks and number of crits. The change has a better chance of kicking back early on in a fight when it may be most useful. The old one was still better but not to some huge degree… unless I shifted a decimal somewhere.

elikal.7356:

His ressource based attacks can be spammed unlimited, while the other classes have timers and THAT is where the Thief beats you. He waits when you are in the timer gap and from there you have zero escape. Whereas the Thief can stay in stealth virtually indefinitely.

Did you read the patch notes? This will no longer be possible. Thieves will not be able to stay stealthed indefinitely and come out with full initiative. That is done… finished… k-put hence why most D/P thieves are or will be upset as their entire style of play will need massive adjustments.

If infiltrator’s return has a cast time, will it still be usable when knocked down?

Straegen.2938:

elikal.7356:

His ressource based attacks can be spammed unlimited, while the other classes have timers and THAT is where the Thief beats you. He waits when you are in the timer gap and from there you have zero escape. Whereas the Thief can stay in stealth virtually indefinitely.

Did you read the patch notes? This will no longer be possible. Thieves will not be able to stay stealthed indefinitely and come out with full initiative. That is done… finished… k-put hence why most D/P thieves are or will be upset as their entire style of play will need massive adjustments.

I re-read the changes and compared them to my Thief, but sorry… I dont see any dramatic changes in the issues at hand, namely the over the top DPS burst.

elikal.7356:

Straegen.2938:

elikal.7356:

His ressource based attacks can be spammed unlimited, while the other classes have timers and THAT is where the Thief beats you. He waits when you are in the timer gap and from there you have zero escape. Whereas the Thief can stay in stealth virtually indefinitely.

Did you read the patch notes? This will no longer be possible. Thieves will not be able to stay stealthed indefinitely and come out with full initiative. That is done… finished… k-put hence why most D/P thieves are or will be upset as their entire style of play will need massive adjustments.

I re-read the changes and compared them to my Thief, but sorry… I dont see any dramatic changes in the issues at hand, namely the over the top DPS burst.

u must be in the wrong forum since warriors can burst u fast with GS then we can especial after this patch comes out

Straegen.2938:

Walker.3056:

Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.

This is a HUGE nerf, the change from 30-50% proc is just useless when they add a CD increased from 1s to 5s means at least 5 less init regen while fighting, This is a BIG nerf on PvP and PvE

Unless my math is off above it is a minor change. More like 1-2 init regen of the life of a fight.

This didn’t proc every attack but every .3 crits. Going to a .5 crit chance over 5s really won’t change much since we are time gated on attacks and number of crits. The change has a better chance of kicking back early on in a fight when it may be most useful. The old one was still better but not to some huge degree… unless I shifted a decimal somewhere.

Do the math spamming pistol whip. 9 attacks with 100% critchance over 4 secs and calculate if nerf or not That was alot of thieves bread and butter for PvE trash pulls.

Straegen.2938:

Walker.3056:

Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.

This is a HUGE nerf, the change from 30-50% proc is just useless when they add a CD increased from 1s to 5s means at least 5 less init regen while fighting, This is a BIG nerf on PvP and PvE

Unless my math is off above it is a minor change. More like 1-2 init regen of the life of a fight.

This didn’t proc every attack but every .3 crits. Going to a .5 crit chance over 5s really won’t change much since we are time gated on attacks and number of crits. The change has a better chance of kicking back early on in a fight when it may be most useful. The old one was still better but not to some huge degree… unless I shifted a decimal somewhere.

This change makes pve for s/p for exemple much harder, this affects PW spam since as it is now you will always get 1 maybe 2 initiative back every time you use it (less than 2 sec) after patch you will get only 1 init back per 5 sec

S/D for exemple your attacks dont have a big time gate since you can keep hitting and evading same time non stop, thats its power and that change makes you lose more init regen, not to mention that this weapon set has already been nerfed non stop over time and this is just one more nerf trying to kill it

This change wont have much effect on time gated builds as you said, d/d or d/p but it we know that in spvp d/d isnt viable so its a change that hits a big number of thieves in both spvp and pve content

Cuteypie.7835:

Straegen.2938:

Walker.3056:

Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.

This is a HUGE nerf, the change from 30-50% proc is just useless when they add a CD increased from 1s to 5s means at least 5 less init regen while fighting, This is a BIG nerf on PvP and PvE

Unless my math is off above it is a minor change. More like 1-2 init regen of the life of a fight.

This didn’t proc every attack but every .3 crits. Going to a .5 crit chance over 5s really won’t change much since we are time gated on attacks and number of crits. The change has a better chance of kicking back early on in a fight when it may be most useful. The old one was still better but not to some huge degree… unless I shifted a decimal somewhere.

Do the math spamming pistol whip. 9 attacks with 100% critchance over 4 secs and calculate if nerf or not That was alot of thieves bread and butter for PvE trash pulls.

Exactly ! ANET makes changes without thinking about all the areas of the game it will affect and this happens since launch….

To me it sounds like most builds are going to end up with MORE Initiative than before, meaning they can completely ignore any additional Initiative regeneration.

I mean buffing passive Initiative generation to 1/Sek. is a MASSIVE buff with unforeseeable consequences, even with nerfs to the trait-regeneration.

As far as I see it, Dagger/Dagger for example won’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more to sustain itself and neither will Pistol/Dagger. Only Dagger/Pistol might end up with a nerf to perma-stealthing.

And while I like the changes overall, I’m not sure if they’re really doing much to improve Venoms or many of the other under-appreciated Thief traits.

The Deadly Arts tree in general could do with a major overhaul, as could many of the passive damage increases. I think that would do more for Thieves than simply altering already popular traits.

Dee Jay.2460:

To me it sounds like most builds are going to end up with MORE Initiative than before, meaning they can completely ignore any additional Initiative regeneration.

I mean buffing passive Initiative generation to 1/Sek. is a MASSIVE buff with unforeseeable consequences, even with nerfs to the trait-regeneration.

As far as I see it, Dagger/Dagger for example won’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more to sustain itself and neither will Pistol/Dagger. Only Dagger/Pistol might end up with a nerf to perma-stealthing.

And while I like the changes overall, I’m not sure if they’re really doing much to improve Venoms or many of the other under-appreciated Thief traits.

The Deadly Arts tree in general could do with a major overhaul, as could many of the passive damage increases. I think that would do more for Thieves than simply altering already popular traits.

right pls fix the deadly arts tree its boring in there venom traits aren’t good enought to bring along with zerker build … well for me atleast bring us something new in deadly arts traits pls

Dee Jay.2460:

To me it sounds like most builds are going to end up with MORE Initiative than before, meaning they can completely ignore any additional Initiative regeneration.

I mean buffing passive Initiative generation to 1/Sek. is a MASSIVE buff with unforeseeable consequences, even with nerfs to the trait-regeneration.

As far as I see it, Dagger/Dagger for example won’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more to sustain itself and neither will Pistol/Dagger. Only Dagger/Pistol might end up with a nerf to perma-stealthing.

And while I like the changes overall, I’m not sure if they’re really doing much to improve Venoms or many of the other under-appreciated Thief traits.

The Deadly Arts tree in general could do with a major overhaul, as could many of the passive damage increases. I think that would do more for Thieves than simply altering already popular traits.

Name 1 build considered meta where this change will make the thief have better init regen than before. Just 1

Cuteypie.7835:

Name 1 build considered meta where this change will make the thief have better init regen than before. Just 1

:| easy.
re-roll to warrior build . has good init regen… actually doesnt rely on init much at all.

We had 2 viable meta builds for tpvp S/D evade build and 10-30-0-0-30 d/p burst build…. d/p burst is the only one that wasnt hit so hard by the nerfs so from now on we will have only one viable tpvp build? Thats really bad instead of more builds they are taking away our options

Asomal.6453:

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

I dont get it … It says u will get 2 initiative each time u enter stealth. Thats how it allways worked o,o. Wheres the change ?

Karolis.4261:

Asomal.6453:

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

I dont get it … It says u will get 2 initiative each time u enter stealth. Thats how it allways worked o,o. Wheres the change ?

Basically you cant chain HS over BP for perma stealth anymore

Cuteypie.7835:

Dee Jay.2460:

To me it sounds like most builds are going to end up with MORE Initiative than before, meaning they can completely ignore any additional Initiative regeneration.

I mean buffing passive Initiative generation to 1/Sek. is a MASSIVE buff with unforeseeable consequences, even with nerfs to the trait-regeneration.

As far as I see it, Dagger/Dagger for example won’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more to sustain itself and neither will Pistol/Dagger. Only Dagger/Pistol might end up with a nerf to perma-stealthing.

And while I like the changes overall, I’m not sure if they’re really doing much to improve Venoms or many of the other under-appreciated Thief traits.

The Deadly Arts tree in general could do with a major overhaul, as could many of the passive damage increases. I think that would do more for Thieves than simply altering already popular traits.

Name 1 build considered meta where this change will make the thief have better init regen than before. Just 1

Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second. Well this one is solid 33% extra initiatove regen speed.
Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s. This one however will probablly take that 33 % exra initiative and flush it to toilet. In conclusion, same or less initiative for power builds, more initiative for condi builds.

Zero Day.2594:

Sneak-attack on pistol, right now stacks a bit too many bleeds. The number of times shot using that skill should be reduced from 5 to 2. The normal attack on the pistol should no longer apply a bleed effect

Hey I was having lots of fun with my P/D WvW condition build. Don’t kitten on my parade here

Seriously though why are you wanting condition builds to be obsolete for thieves? Take away pistol bleeds and all we’ll have left is death blossom spam.

DanielGames.5198:

Zero Day.2594:

Sneak-attack on pistol, right now stacks a bit too many bleeds. The number of times shot using that skill should be reduced from 5 to 2. The normal attack on the pistol should no longer apply a bleed effect

Hey I was having lots of fun with my P/D WvW condition build. Don’t kitten on my parade here

Seriously though why are you wanting condition builds to be obsolete for thieves? Take away pistol bleeds and all we’ll have left is death blossom spam.

I dont think you read my full post… and the “suggested” builds…

Walker.3056:

Karolis.4261:

Asomal.6453:

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

I dont get it … It says u will get 2 initiative each time u enter stealth. Thats how it allways worked o,o. Wheres the change ?

Basically you cant chain HS over BP for perma stealth anymore

Oooh, now i see the difference between descriptions. Gain initiative when using a skill that grants you stealth, aka every HS trigered it. BEST NEWS EVER. Im official D/P hater since day it become meta build. This will nerf a little other stealth builds tho, including my d/d (as for example… use CnD to enter stealth and in that 4s window use hide in shadows or blind powder or w/e, wont give 2 initiative too ), but knowing how it will hit d/p hs bunny hopping… made my day. Hate me all you want couse im happy . Vigor nerf is a kitten though. Know a person who’s gonna rage about it. I know i would.

One thing i want to see in patch notes. Last refuge swapped with infusion of shadow/shadows embrace or cloaked in shadow… Keep dreaming though

Looks like nothing but buffs to my D/D super unicorn.

Zero Day.2594:

Just re-roll to a guard or warrior.

But not cheesey hammer warrior, since their most abusive build by far got (rightfully) nerfed into the floorboards.

Silas.4817:

If you look at it in comparison to an engineer or elementalist who has a wide array of abilities we thieves just kinda have our stealth for our survivability.

Try Assassin’s Reward, Signet of Malice, and heal power gear. You can outheal all kinds of reasonable damage without ever going into stealth.

They’re even buffing Assassins Reward on this patch.

Cuteypie.7835:

Name 1 build considered meta where this change will make the thief have better init regen than before. Just 1

Which is EXACTLY the point. To bring up non-meta builds to a more competitive footing without giving the peak performers 1 iota more potency.