Guild Wars 2

Fade.7658:

Pistol Whip. Reduced the after cast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.

So, before we had a 0.5 after cast from stun to the flurry (thus the stun part of PW was totally useless).

Now we’ll get a 0.25s window in which to land the, uhm, maybe first 2 hits of the flurry?

Is this some kind of perverted joke?

Just few words:

Stealth is not good so we will get nerfed permastealth builds and ok i “could” agree with it. IF we dont use stealth we go with evasion and adios sword build. And of course we will get nerfed vigor. Seems legit! We got buffed an USELESS trait for some party work in last patch… but our venoms are still crappy and i dont see any sign of fix in this list. So… What are we supposed to do? reroll a warrior? Who are designers of this game?

Lol @ opportunist cooldown and shadow return nerf, etc. hahahaha, good thing i already made a Warrior, anet’s favorite.

Picking on sword again. Such meanies.

Thankfully they fixed Sylvari male’s /cry animation. I’m gonna need it.

Honestly, the thief players who abused perma stealth brought much of this on themselves and many other nerfs. Hopefully with perma stealth somewhat nerfed other issues can be addressed.

Sanduskel.1850:

Honestly, the thief players who abused perma stealth brought much of this on themselves and many other nerfs. Hopefully with perma stealth somewhat nerfed other issues can be addressed.

what other issues?

Zero Day.2594:

Hidden killer should be reduced from 100% to 25%.

This would make it pointless. If thats the case Id just go with executioner since my normal crit chance is higher than that.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zero Day.2594:

Hidden killer should be reduced from 100% to 25%.

This would make it pointless. If thats the case Id just go with executioner since my normal crit chance is higher than that.

Don’t think you read my full post and the builds that theses changes would open up.

I find it concerning that they are now nerfing evasion and stealth, which are really the only things that Thieves can depend on for survival. I said as much in the official feedback thread. I can’t say I’m surprised, though, since it’s been in my doomsday predictions for awhile.

This part confuses me, however:

JonPeters.5630:

Thief:
…Also we are trying to improve the survivability of thieves in the Acrobatics line through easier access to the Hard to Catch trait and increased effectiveness of the Assassin’s Reward trait. This will reward thieves who are actively engaged in the fight rather than those who are just dodging over and over again.

Why would they would want us to depend on “Hard to Catch?” That trait is incredibly unpredictable and can kill you as easily as save you—much like Last Refuge. Also, that entire premise of “the survivability of Thieves” is based on the idea of Thieves sustaining in a fight, which they are incapable of doing without stealth or evasion.

/aneurysm

honestly saying the 30 shadow arts D/P stealth bacsktab really hard to kill in wvw and pvp, so this new balance patch for other classes and thief are all fine and balance! many players been doing 4HS in blackpowder in pvp and wvw which can result to perma stealthing, im excited for this new balance patch! more challenging and needs more skill level to be viable in pvp/wvw. i mainly play S/D+Shortbow, S/P and burst D/P (no shadow arts)

Zero Day.2594:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zero Day.2594:

Hidden killer should be reduced from 100% to 25%.

This would make it pointless. If thats the case Id just go with executioner since my normal crit chance is higher than that.

Don’t think you read my full post and the builds that theses changes would open up.

Hm? Oh I apologize

Oh, I know…
They want constructive feedback… I think I will add some for the Thief.

Back-stab builds will still be overpowered, let’s reduce the side-strike trait to 2% chance. Reduce a bit of damage on Back-Stab it self. Hidden killer should be reduced from 100% to 25%.
Sneak-attack on pistol, right now stacks a bit too many bleeds. The number of times shot using that skill should be reduced from 5 to 2. The normal attack on the pistol should no longer apply a bleed effect
Black powder should be as suggested, powder, only blinding one enemy without an AoE effect.
Executioner should be decreased from 20% to 10%.
Backfighting increase damage from 50% to 150%, thieves generally fight when they’re downed, so it’s a good idea to provide a buff and expand build options.

Did I forget any other changes the thieves should get? Gonna post it as a suggestion in that post…
Think these would be some solid changes… Would greatly open up thief builds (for instance, re-rolling to warrior build, or re-rolling to guardian build).

This would be pointless, I’d just go to my guard or necro, hell maybe even join those thieves that rerolled engi
EDIT: How the hell is hell not kittened? kitten , gee that is though and just as if not more tame a word -_-

Why is the Infusion of Shadow change necessary?

Meta sPvP thieves don’t spend a single trait point in Shadow Arts, and I don’t see that changing as long as conquest is our only game mode.

Thieves are hardly a worthy mention in WvW, where heavy armor front liners and heavy hitting AoE back liners steal the spotlight. Thieves only really shine in small encounters, which really don’t affect PPT much.

Perma-stealth builds are annoying to fight, sure, but then so are all classes when specced correctly. I get the feeling that is change is a response to 1v1 complaints in WvW, which is ridiculous.

More and more I regret rolling a stealth-reliant class in this game. I kinda remember an ANET post saying something like boosting Thief base skill damage to make them less reliant on Berserker stats to deal decent damage. Where has that idea gone?

• increased base init regen
• improved Assassin’s Reward
• nerfed thief’s major survivability methods

Oh god. Some mastermind up in ArenaNet is secretly trying to groom P/P bunkers as the new meta. The horror! (tin foil hat)

JohnnyZero.5619:

Why is the Infusion of Shadow change necessary?

Meta sPvP thieves don’t spend a single trait point in Shadow Arts, and I don’t see that changing as long as conquest is our only game mode.

Thieves are hardly a worthy mention in WvW, where heavy armor front liners and heavy hitting AoE back liners steal the spotlight. Thieves only really shine in small encounters, which really don’t affect PPT much.

Perma-stealth builds are annoying to fight, sure, but then so are all classes when specced correctly. I get the feeling that is change is a response to 1v1 complaints in WvW, which is ridiculous.

More and more I regret rolling a stealth-reliant class in this game. I kinda remember an ANET post saying something like boosting Thief base skill damage to make them less reliant on Berserker stats to deal decent damage. Where has that idea gone?

if you can’t contribute in large scale fights, you are doing something wrong. sorry to say that.

I don’t play a thief much but my wife does. Doesn’t look like P/P is any more viable than it currently is huh?

Sanduskel.1850:

if you can’t contribute in large scale fights, you are doing something wrong. sorry to say that.

I can contribute to large scale fights, and do so consistently. But contributing comes in varying degrees. I personally find that picking off back liners and Cluster Bombing fire/water fields are the best uses for a thief in a WvW zerg. Having said that, I think 9 out of 10 WvW commanders would prefer having another hammer warrior/guardian over a thief.

I get trying to make dungeons harder and content more of a challenge.

This is just r e kitten e d. One skill with stability, no protection and Anet thinks the answer is to nerf mobility… WTF are they thinking??? Have they even played thief?

“Hey lets take the class with the least survivability and force them to be the revive dummies for our daily achievements.” -some Anet kitten

Good thing my thief has unlimited harvesting tools cuz thats about all hes gonna be good for now.

Thieves don’t have the least survivability. NOt even close.

Sanduskel.1850:

Thieves don’t have the least survivability. NOt even close.

Feel free to explain that bearing in mind the current dps meta… Fewest buffs and lowest hp…

Don’t forget the kittentiest heal scaling.

I mean really well thought out…

“This will reward thieves who are actively engaged in the fight rather than those who are just dodging over and over again. "

Lets make Hard to Catch easier to pick up that way thieves can ‘stay in the fight’ after they shadow step away. Since the timing of our champion abilities is known to lengthen the farther away someone is and 1/2s cast to sword 2 will do wonders.

S/D did need a nerf, the question is what is anet trying to accomplish with this changes though? Thieves are already rather ok/weak in pvp/wvw and probably least desired. Still low HP, still crappiest healing/toughness scaling in game probably, no protection, no stability (outside of long CD elite skill), less moblity, less dmg and less stealth after patch. What will be thief role in game? Stealth bot for fractals?

Not really a big deal I guess, but the Opportunist nerf hits the already lackluster dps P/P pretty hard. It was just becoming my guilty pleasure too…

Gamblit.5041:

I’d like to comment on this change:
Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier.
Trickery VIII – Trickster. Move to Adept tier.

Can you please please please instead of : Trickery VIII – Trickster. Move to Adept tier.
Move Trickery X – Ricochet to Adept Tier.

For P/P build i am forced to spending 20 Points in to a Tree that has little to do with P/P build.

This would be useful!

Dear Arena Net
Be carefull to make balance changes according to “cryers”, they will cry reavers anyway, thats their hobby.
You cant “balance” it all, dont be another World of Warcraft, trying to build communism among the classes.
Thief has many doungrades such as extremely low HP pool, low PvE damage output (Wars, Mesmers got much more) so we have to go Berserker full only which makes us very hard to survive at serious explo dungeons/high fractals etc.
No condition removal, no ability to stack conditions (except D/D, which dissapears in half of the second) and more.
Thief as a “dagger/assasin” class is a classic glass cannon with stealth mechanics, his dominance in PvP is clear and thats the way it should be, thats our strong side, we are assasins.
DONT RUIN IT, ArenaNet, dont be a cryers babysiter, dont “communise” the balance, every class has its “specialite” – thats the true balance.

I can only applaud Anet for the nerf on the gains for the absurd perma stealth play style as well as a great nerf on the teleporting.

Seriously.

Teleporting out of stuns…teleporting half way across the map at one click of a button.
Great move Anet. Thank you again.

And before anyone says it. I only play two chars with my main being a thief, and I will only love it more due to this.
It was just way too silly to even take seriously.

10/10

and @LExBlackshtein

This is the beauty of GW. Versatility…and with that ‘all herding to one’ spec due to it being so overpowerd is exactly what kills diversity.
This nerf was incoming.
Your post reflects that you only see the one spec that is viable. That is your mistake.
That is how YOU wish to play your thief.
I have been exceptionally effective without having to perma stealth and teleport and rely on immense crits.

It’s about allowing different options….not herding everyone into one viable play style.
And the teleport was the most absurd of the lot.

People for this change are not the cry babies.
The people that want 100% stealth/teleport with 100% damage and 99% escape success by just disappearing out of a fight how and when they wish……they’re the cry babies as their troll spec is now finally being given a wake up call.

Very good job Anet.

Wtf lmao… wow.

Straegen.2938:

Puru.4217:

Ini regen will be worse in general. Opportunist was that good, actually this is a major nerf to s/p, once again.

I think not so much. At 1 attack per second and a crit every .75 attacks over 15s

Old: 15 * .75 = 11.25 crits over 15s. 30%/1s cooldown = 3.375 init regen
New: 15 * .75 = 11.25 crits over 15s. 50%/5s cooldown = 3 init regen

A thief will be pegging a net loss regen every 45 seconds of sustained attack. These are of course rough numbers but still the effect isn’t going to be particularly dramatic at least on this change. Slower attack chains will notice even less.

In PVE you attack vs 3+ NPC = 100% chance the added 1 inni every one sec = 5 ini every 5 sec, new added 1 ini evey 5 sec —-> nerf as hell

Thanks ArenaNet for nerfing PVE thief more

avilo.1942:

Lol @ opportunist cooldown and shadow return nerf, etc. hahahaha, good thing i already made a Warrior, anet’s favorite.

Not sure if they are their favorite, but I think more the easiest for them.

Evasion – nerfed
Mobility – nerfed
Initiative – HUGE nerf considering some builds – for others it’s like the same as it was.
Stealth – nerfed for some builds.

Honestly I FAIL to see any boost here to our survivality.

Thief now is really serious crap.

Thx ANET.

So…. is the sword return not a pseudo-stunbreak anymore? I’ll have to see if Mesmer staff #2 got the same treatment.

They will never balance this game, never.

small boost – initiave gain for large nerf – reentering stealth gives no ini… every patch there is ******* nerf. No more waste of time in this game.

WHY DO DEVS….. think balancing a game = making classes worse (which makes game worse) ….. RATHER THAN….. make other classes strong with more skills or etc and making the game more fun and interesting. seems pretty simple to me.

This nerf set is actually the last of everything. backstab will come in feb and then thief will get removed in may ….im guessing. what ajoke. thief has no place in game anymore. without the init gain d/p is dead/ s/d is hurt alot and so is s/p and d/d.

@RedSpectrum
X.x’ um… i was being a sarcastic smart kitten … in my original post…
Quite honestly though, I wanna see how far Anet will nerf thieves…
I main(ed) a thief, and with the past 10-50 (over exaggerating, but i really lost track) patches, every single one touched the thief in a bad way (more then good)… so i completely lost any hope of thieves recovering.
So why not join in on the fun, roll a guard or warrior, and suggest stupid nerfs so that Anet can completely beat the class down. – If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.

Dee Jay.2460:

To me it sounds like most builds are going to end up with MORE Initiative than before, meaning they can completely ignore any additional Initiative regeneration.

I mean buffing passive Initiative generation to 1/Sek. is a MASSIVE buff with unforeseeable consequences, even with nerfs to the trait-regeneration.

As far as I see it, Dagger/Dagger for example won’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more to sustain itself and neither will Pistol/Dagger. Only Dagger/Pistol might end up with a nerf to perma-stealthing.

And while I like the changes overall, I’m not sure if they’re really doing much to improve Venoms or many of the other under-appreciated Thief traits.

The Deadly Arts tree in general could do with a major overhaul, as could many of the passive damage increases. I think that would do more for Thieves than simply altering already popular traits.

This is what I was thinking. D/D won’t need the extra initiative on stealth and now can opt for the condition clear on stealth (or the blind, whichever you don’t use) which is a buff. I’m liking it so far. The change to Infusion of Shadow was definitely needed.

Oh Sandy, at least you managed to make me laugh from once in a while……..anyways for the rest, if i learned anything from the Ele and Mesmer nerf horror season is that they nerf a class for a few updates consecutively (usually nerfing the same builds even if the meta changed or they managed to destroy those builds) so at least one nerf update is still in the making and with that one the camels back will be truly broken. Thieves may not be broken yet and can still limp away but with the next one they will be dead.

This is a bit…unbelievable. I play pistol dagger so I’m not actually sure where my build stands enlight of all this crap. I lied in another thread that I wasn’t going to stop playing my thief but yea, this is the last straw, even more pathetic was that I was going to start playing my elementalist full time but I see they’re getting nerfed even more too. this just makes me “lol”

seriously arena net, your game is becoming a complete joke.

Imagi.4561:

stuff

That quote right there proves the developers don’t know a thing about this profession. And if they don’t know kitten, they probably never played it too.

Good job anet.

Considering that Jon Peters has stopped by the profession threads for Elementalist, Engineer, Guardian, Ranger, and Mesmer to discuss the proposed changes, I’m hoping that he fully intends to stop by the Thief forum in the near future.

And, you know, people complain about a lack of dev interaction on the Thief forums, but the Necro forum—where he also hasn’t been, as of yet—is depressing. Tumbleweeds, tumbleweeds everywhere.

I am listing every thief post that I see as neccessary (plus my rifle idea :3) when he finally gets his kitten here.

been playing my thief since beta, almost every patch is a nerf, and a buff or counter vs thieves, just saying. oh my poor thief.

Lol I thought that rifle idea was a troll. Sorry I thought it was a joke about that old April fools commando thing. Also because gw1 had assassins and our roguesque class changed in gw2.

Don’t mean to shoot your idea down but I think “your” idea had been discussed by anet long before any of us even knew the classes. What I’m saying is you seriously don’t think “sniper rifles” were thought of….considered…then the assassin was renamed thief. If you know wat I mean?

Every weapon for every class would of been considered and I believe it’s for ideas like yours that we have a thief and not an assassin. If it was assassin then you’d have an excuse to want a stealth on demand, high mobility class to have a hard critting long range shot. Though your actually a thief so something like rifles are probably out of the question. big, heavy and loud…

Imagi.4561:

I find it concerning that they are now nerfing evasion and stealth, which are really the only things that Thieves can depend on for survival. I said as much in the official feedback thread. I can’t say I’m surprised, though, since it’s been in my doomsday predictions for awhile.

This part confuses me, however:

JonPeters.5630:

Thief:
…Also we are trying to improve the survivability of thieves in the Acrobatics line through easier access to the Hard to Catch trait and increased effectiveness of the Assassin’s Reward trait. This will reward thieves who are actively engaged in the fight rather than those who are just dodging over and over again.

Why would they would want us to depend on “Hard to Catch?” That trait is incredibly unpredictable and can kill you as easily as save you—much like Last Refuge. Also, that entire premise of “the survivability of Thieves” is based on the idea of Thieves sustaining in a fight, which they are incapable of doing without stealth or evasion.

/aneurysm

“We want to improve thieve’s survivability”

nerfs sword infiltrator strike/shadow return AGAIN

Clueless devs.

YOUR TEARS ARE DELICIOUS L2P

I can only say: Fire the anet balance team and reshuffle them right now.

Nerfs on stealth and dodge. Nerfs on initiative gain. Then they have the galls to write trash like

“Also we are trying to improve the survivability of thieves in the Acrobatics line through easier access to the Hard to Catch trait and increased effectiveness of the Assassin’s Reward trait. This will reward thieves who are actively engaged in the fight rather than those who are just dodging over and over again.”

There’s no protection boon (ele/guardian) or swiftness boons or even high HP gains like necros/warriors. Dodge and stealth are the main signatures of thieves. I understand the D/P = cheese argument, but the idea of

Acrobatics X – Assassins Reward. Increased healing scaling by 35%. Moved to Grandmaster Tier.

Changing this to grandmaster tier makes everything a laughing joke. “Scaling” it to be a 25 hp extra effectiveness * 20 init usage (LOL 500 HP extra heal after spamming everything.) is not going to negate a simple skull crack + hundred blades damage. You either DPS or you OUTHEAL your opponent (something that warrior can achieve with a healing signet without wasting 30 kitten points into a line).

Assuming all the misc. nerfs/buffs = same overall initiative gain, your healing has just improved by 500 HP every 12.5 seconds (if you actually bothered dumping 30 points into a trait line). That totally negates an extra hit from any weapon attacks (1 normal hit from an auto attack)!

It’s soooooooo much better than the dodge! (lol Anet nerf vigor gain. Out of all kitten things, they nerf vigor.) My god. The profession that should get DODGE the most has gone to guardians/mesmers/rangers/whatever.

Wow. Anet. Wow. Thank god I’m rolling a necromancer few weeks ago. The incompetent patches recently prove how much anet team is failing. This game is becoming rubbish, and it’s time to cut down my time on playing rubbish (and I had hopes that one day anet will improve the thieves class.)

they dont care about the thief dont you get it.i have a game book with a gw2 team speaker saying we wont have to nerf the thief in this game due to the lack of stealth not bein perma .they dont care are they dont know how to make a thief work.did see two gw2 devs on live stream playinging warriors and giggling and laughing what that tell you