Guild Wars 2

Now that ANet kinda started doing some changes and kinda active on forum i would like to suggest some changes to S/D for discussion.

The role i suggest would be the anti-sustain role. This means it would counter some sustain builds by poison and stealing protection.
You would have more damage and defense by them having no protection while you do as well as reducing their healing with poison. The stolen protection means you could also be in teamfights more.

So the changes would be:
1. Make Larcenous Strike prioritize Protection stealing (and cost 1 less initiative like it did before while still stealing 2 boons – but this would be a secondary – not that important buff)
2. Replace the Cripple on Dancing Daggers with Poison (1-2 stacks for 3s would be ok for 3 initiative i think). This would also help in teamfights because of the bouncing -> poisoning multiple people.
(3. AoE blind on CnD as everyone said before – tho this change isnt connected to the topic)

These changes would also buff D/D cancer thief too tho, not sure how much (they wouldnt use DB that much because initiative if they would want to poison) and P/D would have more diverse conditions too.

This would be another role compared to D/P where you want to +1 and kill squishier targets while with S/D you would want to target more sustained builds and weakening them in teamfights or beating them in 1v1.

/discuss

1. I’d probably appreciate that change.

2. You addressed the poison issue already.

Sure, a blind on CnD would be nice along with other practical changes, as long as we’re still accepting that S/D wouldn’t be an option to replace D/P or Staff. Given the role you’d give it with those changes I’m not sure the set would take a spot in matches but if we’re talking in general I don’t think those changes would be too controversial.

I play S/D and I love the style and what I can do with it in WvW, but it’s a high maintenance set with any build. My issue with S/D right now from a totally selfish perspective so I’m not arguing balance, is that it’s entirely dependent on having a target in range to be active. To be an active set out of combat or in prep I have to dedicate weapon switch to either stealth or mobility. So, I’m always questioning why I take S/D over D/P baring aesthetic where I could have faster stealth and mobility.

Again that’s inner me asking myself, so it’s not an argument towards balance.

I’d rather see them sooner nerf boon access game-wide, but that’s just me. You shouldn’t be dependent on a specific set to counter an innate flaw in the game’s current design.

If they give Dancing Dagger a condition, I’d rather see it be made into torment with the cripple kept but with no bounces and just a static AoE. Change Dagger Training to 1s duration but at 100% chance. Up the power coefficient again on DD to compensate power builds for no bounces. IF they did this, however, as mentioned above, they’d also need to rework Death Blossom on D/D to be a more functional evade for both builds. You can’t overload Dancing Dagger innately with torment or poison, either, since P/D is a functional build now, too, and already provides excellent condition pressure.

Blind on CnD will do nothing to improve CnD. The skill doesn’t do well because it’s inconsistent; of all the blocks and invulns in the game prevent the stealth from working. It’s not any good not because it doesn’t have defenses tied to it or extra unnecessary punishes. You can already dodge on the trailing frames during CnD’s cast and get both the stealth and the evade, and passive blind would nullify the purpose of running CiS. I’ll be honest, a lot of the people requesting the blind on CnD are not true masters of the kit and are upset they can no longer run SE + CiS + Rejuv in SA for three layers of punishment and sustain when camping stealth as much as possible.

Giving Dancing dagger a condition such as torment a no go. P/D three already has torment tweaked in PvP to 4 stacks. Something like a one second slow seems more suitable. (or a pull of some sort)

A build with two sources of the same condition outside the AA just makes little sense when we look at the INI structure underlying thief.

CnD rather then blind (which I also think would not help it a lot) should be unblockable. It can still be dodged but I think making it unblockable suitable reward for the costs and timing needed. That thief is still subject to AOE and cleave and dodges/invuln will still work against it.

If it’s an AoE it covers wholly different functionality, not to mention SStrike requires already being in melee range while DD doesn’t. Yes, it’s the same condition, but it’s like trying to say that Grasping Dead doesn’t belong on Necro’s scepter because its AA already inflicts bleeding, the same said about Splitblade and Winter’s Bite on ranger Axe, or DT being based on poison despite the thief dagger AA already applying permanent poison uptime.

As far as unblockable CnD, I want it and don’t. I recognize totally how it could break a lot of aspects of the thief, yet at the same time it’s only weak due to said consistency issues.

S/D is over, D/P too stronk its time we live with this reality.

I have a lot of changes at the sword and at the dagger section in my document
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1slZrh_ND6Bu6qYm8Yzmh5HMO43RhcE9_GLRt046i0JE/edit?usp=sharing

Larcenous Strike works fine as it is if you’d ask me.
The Poison on Dancing Dagger and the Blind on Cloak and Dagger is something that I’ve been suggesting for a long time now so I obviously agree there. Though I don’t think the blind should be AoE. Blinding the person you hit is more that good enough for the assumed “1v1” role. I haven’t played a lot of D/D ever since they changed the way traits work though (and to be honest, not a lot prior to that either, I always preffered S/D and D/P). When I used to play with D/D I’d go for the 6/6/2/0/0 trait setup and only put those 2 points into SA for CiS, I feel like part of the issue with x/D’s surviveability is in lacking that simple blind. Yes you can time your dodge with CnD to negate whatever would hit you, but that does cost 50 endurance. Not a big deal for Daredevil, but definitely big for Core Thief, which I think would benefit a whole lot more of that built-in Blind.
It won’t take over D/P as the go-to meta set, but it’d definitely allow for some niche use in certain PvP matches and more viable use in WvW.
Ofcourse, it wouldn’t do much for PvE, but I don’t recall S/D ever being a thing there to begin with nor see PvE players ask for changes to the set. I doubt they’ll mind we leave them out of this one :P

DeceiverX makes good points too, overall Boon application is way too high across the board, indeed.
That said, I don’t see why Torment would be preffered over Poison. I feel like Torment would only benefit condi-aimed builds, while Poison would also benefit power-aimed builds due to their respective effects (other than the flat Damage over Time). Dagger Training still holds it’s value as a trait for condi sets compared to the other options anyway, I’d think.

EDIT:
Also, as with Kicker’s document… A revert on the “bugfix” to Infiltrator’s Strike would be nice, it just feels like they dumbed down the game by removing it even though it does fit their streak of disabling mid-air skill usage on other classes too.

What’s even worse is that even though cnd gives 3 stacks of vulnerability but the dmg certificate is less then shadow shot. I am not comping there’s 2 skills to say how gready d/p is or how much stronger it is but how can something that costs 4 inative be able to port you to taget, blinds said foe wich can’t be blocked and does more dmg then cnd that can be blocked, can only be used in melee range and costs 6 inative. Stuff like this just makes me wonder how the balance team come up with there’s sort of figures.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

What’s even worse is that even though cnd gives 3 stacks of vulnerability but the dmg certificate is less then shadow shot. I am not comping there’s 2 skills to say how gready d/p is or how much stronger it is but how can something that costs 4 inative be able to port you to taget, blinds said foe wich can’t be blocked and does more dmg then cnd that can be blocked, can only be used in melee range and costs 6 inative. Stuff like this just makes me wonder how the balance team come up with there’s sort of figures.

The reason is ermergherd Stealthz OP!!! Must kill with Fire!!!