Guild Wars 2

Here is his newest vid in case no one has seen it yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEYhovtwBo nice job once again Yishis

once again a nice video

I like his videos as well.; very detailed and well spoken. Glad you thieves have an idol.

Aren’t these video all the same? Chain Cloak and Dagger until enemy makes a mistake or has blow their CDs.

Profit.

While the commentary is nice, he’s really only stating the obvious. You Cloak and Dagger because frankly…what else does one do as a D/D Thief?

GW2 combat is so shallow that these explanations don’t really add much to the overall understanding because there’s not much to understand.

I like Yishis, my favorite GW2 WvW videos by far, but can’t help feeling that GW2 has a really low skill-cap. Explanations in WoW added a lot because combat was deep and there was lots to know about various classes. But in GW2 you fight every class the same way because your build is only capable of doing one thing well.

And in this case it just happens to be Cloak and Dagger and Backstab.

PS: Also, this seems identical to his previous videos.

what changes/adaptations did he make?

Dee Jay.2460:

Aren’t these video all the same? Chain Cloak and Dagger until enemy makes a mistake or has blow their CDs.

Profit.

While the commentary is nice, he’s really only stating the obvious. You Cloak and Dagger because frankly…what else does one do as a D/D Thief?

GW2 combat is so shallow that these explanations don’t really add much to the overall understanding because there’s not much to understand.

I like Yishis, my favorite GW2 WvW videos by far, but can’t help feeling that GW2 has a really low skill-cap. Explanations in WoW added a lot because combat was deep and there was lots to know about various classes. But in GW2 you fight every class the same way because your build is only capable of doing one thing well.

And in this case it just happens to be Cloak and Dagger and Backstab.

PS: Also, this seems identical to his previous videos.

On the surface you’re absolutely right, but also on the surface, in that regard, anyone can go out there Cloak and Dagger and have as much success as Yishis does. He knows how to position himself, knows when is the right time to Backstab. Many times he CnD’s but the backstab never comes because it’s just safer to stay put. Most are far too scared to blow their utilities in such close proximity to one another but he knows when and where to use each of his utilities in his videos. Am I saying he is successful 100% of the time? Of course not, no one is and he’ll tell you that flat-out. But he even 1v1 some direct thief counters in his vid and comes out successful. That’s when just simply 1-5-1-1-1-5-1 becomes a bit more reactionary.

I’m not saying that playing a Thief requires no skill. In fact I think it has a slightly higher skill-requirement than most other classes. (still low though, just like all others)

But it doesn’t change the fact that all fights are essentially the same and always follow the same principle. Capture enough footage and you will always find fights where you can show off, assuming you are semi-capable.

The fact that he does his voice-over after the fight also makes it appear like many of his “decisions” were more thoughtful than they are actually in game.

What I will give him credit for however is that he rarely misses a Cloak and Dagger ,which to be fair, is one of the more skillful elements to playing a Thief.

It’s nice and all and I like his commentary but it’s sad that his build is the same old 0/30/30/10~. Need something more than just that single build all the time for non cond DMG.

Dee Jay.2460:

can’t help feeling that GW2 has a really low skill-cap.

On the contrary, I think GW2 suffers from having a very difficult-to-reach skill cap.

Having PvP’d up to Cata, I have much respect for WoW PvP, but you typically went into fights knowing what to expect. If you jumped a frost mage, you would expect him to blink, ice block, or frost nova and start kiting. You would typically expect the frost mage to blink on ~15 sec cooldown, ice block twice in the fight, and summon clones once. You needed good reactions and judgments to adjust your cooldowns to counter whatever the mage was going to do to you. Mainly, there were important cool down spells for each class that were set in stone, easy to keep track of, and not typically encountered more than once in a fight.

In GW2, to be most efficient, you have to do alot of initiative/cooldown counting and guess works as to what the other guy’s traits and utilities are. If the guardian you are fighting did his spin just now, you are safe to melee him under blinding powder for about ten seconds. If you miscount it, you may eat alot of avoidable damage. If the spin comes back out earlier than 10 seconds, you can probably deduce that this guard is investing into Honor and would have some worthwhile boons to steal.

The thing is, to fully utilize this style in GW2, you are going to need some ridonculous amount of knowledge on all the classes. That’s weapon sets, skills, utilities, traits, and cooldowns on these things. That’s alot to expect from an average player. I think most people, including me in many cases, really don’t bother to go any further than recognizing what different spells look like.

I am sorry but I absolutely disagree.

Most classes just rotate their cooldown and spam whatever is ready for maximum efficiency. I have less than 2 hour played on my Warrior and can play him competitively.

GW2 does require some class knowledge and how certain builds and traits work. But EVERY MMO requires that. And most MMOs to a much greater extent than GW2.

And you see, even if you do know what your opponents next move will be, it often doesn’t change anything because your moves are so limited.

Fighting a Hammer Warrior? Cycle Cloak and Dagger + Backstab while avoiding stun-moves.

Fighting a Greatsword Warrior? Cycle Cloak and Dagger + Backstab while avoiding Bladetrail and 100 Blades.

There are some small windows where knowledge shines, like using the stolen ability to counter a possible ranged-attack or Kill Shot. But those moves are few and far between and really not that hard to grasp.

I played WoW for years and felt like I was always learning something new. Be it a new trick to counter x or a nice way to bait y. But in GW2, after playing it for just over a year I don’t feel like there’s anything left to learn to understand.

You see player skill is made up partially of

• “twitch skills”,
• “situational awareness/ coordination”
• “game knowledge”

Now twitch skills are often set in stone after a certain age and don’t necessarily improve much, even with practice. It’s also not something you can really train that well.

Situational awareness generally improves with experience, when you feel more comfortable with your class and are familiar with your environment it allows you to focus on the important stuff. This is also what makes team-players so effective.

Knowledge is also largely experience-based but in a different way. For many MMO veterans this is really the only way for them to significantly progress their skill.

When I look at successful PvP players in GW2, they literally do the same stuff everyone else does. Their skill is entirely derived from their ability to coordinate well in team-fights.

In contrast, watching someone like Reckful back in WoW was truly impressive. He could do things that others could not and he had extensive class knowledge. He would approach every fight differently, with good reasons too.

Skill in GW2 is all about coordination, not execution. In WoW it was about both, as well as having more depth and interactions.

Dee Jay.2460:

Aren’t these video all the same? Chain Cloak and Dagger until enemy makes a mistake or has blow their CDs.

I think you missed most of the interesting bits in his videos. Certainly, every D/D thief understands the basic flow is CnD, and time your burst. The reason Yishis’ videos are so useful for learning the class is because he demonstrates and explains best practices for the balance of the decisions you must make:

- Which target do I attack first, in a group setting?
- Whom should I prioritize for steal?
- How do I separate one or two targets from the herd, and where should I fight them?
- When do I use my utilities, vs when do I preserve them?
- When is it time to burst someone down, vs when should I continue to bide my time?

Perhaps all this stuff is second-nature to you, and maybe you have the same situational awareness he does. I’m sure there are other people playing thieves this well. Most of them don’t film and narrate such useful tutorials, though

Elm.8169:

The thing is, to fully utilize this style in GW2, you are going to need some ridonculous amount of knowledge on all the classes.

In every (good) PvP game I have played, that is what ultimately separates good players from great ones. You’re right, it’s a tremendous amount of work. More than I have time for

Well I do think much of it is common sense, especially if you see it played out on screen infront of you. Picking down-leveled and glassy characters off first just makes the most sense.

What I will admit though is that videos can show you a different play-style than what you might normally consider.

The idea of using D/D as an endurance build, rather than exclusively for bursting is what struck me about the original Yishis videos. Up until then, the whole Mug + Backstab instant-gibbing was hip. I think he was the first guy I saw using patience and timing to his advantage, rather than relying on quick burst.

Or when Wild Bill showed us how P/D is meant to be played. I don’t think I’d have figured that out by myself, the whole idea of an attrition pistol build. But once you see it, it become easy to replicate, or at least for me.

Dee Jay.2460:

Aren’t these video all the same? Chain Cloak and Dagger until enemy makes a mistake or has blow their CDs.

Go has very few moves, but is very complex and deep. Adding moves doesn’t make a game deeper.

frans.8092:

Dee Jay.2460:

Aren’t these video all the same? Chain Cloak and Dagger until enemy makes a mistake or has blow their CDs.

Go has very few moves, but is very complex and deep. Adding moves doesn’t make a game deeper.

It depends,

DOTA 2 for example derives most of its depth from hero, build-variety and coordination. And that works well for a MOBA.

But for an MMO, classes and abilities make up the majority of depth, and that’s where GW2 is largely lacking. The trait system has at least the potential for being deep, but the limited abilities are really what is holding GW2 back.

You can always go back to Wow.
Show a video of this ‘deep’ Wow play that gives an idea what it is you mean by ‘deep’.

Who cares if this game is deep or not? Yishis makes great videos that explain how to play THIS game well in a manner that players of all skill levels can understand and appreciate.

He’s still a dirty stealther, though. :P

I agree and side with Dee Jay.

As an outcast ranger, i get killed by a thief all the time by their same set of skills- Chain Cloak and Dagger+backstab… seriously, what else? steal..
when? where?

Look at all the past and present threads concerning thief kill skills.. they are all the same.

Also Dee Jay isn’t saying that Yishis isn’t doing or leaning anything new but to the eyes of the majority and the outsiders, it is the same set of skills we’ve all been seeing….all the time.

Perhaps a different play style? but in the end, it will be the same style…. all over again. . Ex. you can color your hair blue, brown, yellow, purple, orange, gray, white, red, pink…. in the end, you still have black hair.

You can even switch the colors around….. in the end, you will still have black hair.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Who cares if this game is deep or not? Yishis makes great videos that explain how to play THIS game well in a manner that players of all skill levels can understand and appreciate.

He’s still a dirty stealther, though. :P

he does. he even scripts his videos and reads off a paper. he puts alot of effort in.

Dee Jay.2460:

Most classes just rotate their cooldown and spam whatever is ready for maximum efficiency. I have less than 2 hour played on my Warrior and can play him competitively.

GW2 does require some class knowledge and how certain builds and traits work. But EVERY MMO requires that. And most MMOs to a much greater extent than GW2.

And you see, even if you do know what your opponents next move will be, it often doesn’t change anything because your moves are so limited.

Fighting a Hammer Warrior? Cycle Cloak and Dagger + Backstab while avoiding stun-moves.

Fighting a Greatsword Warrior? Cycle Cloak and Dagger + Backstab while avoiding Bladetrail and 100 Blades.

Well, like I said, ‘avoiding stun moves and going CnD + Backstab’ is the playstyle where most of us decide to settle. We try Cnd + Backstab regardless of who we are fighting and content ourselves with dodging when we see something dangerous coming. Looking into hammer warriors, many of us repeatedly CnD + Backstab and dodge when we see the warrior jump or hold his hammer up vertically. Soon, we start having difficulty dodging because we keep eating the weakness from hammer 2 and cripple from hammer 3. We inevitably get chain stunned against decent warriors because we are now out of initiative or the CnD chain is so obvious or because we are revealed for 3-4 seconds after backstabbing. Then, we ShS out, run away, and rinse and repeat with the next person we see.

If you can actually count the cooldowns for the ~10 and ~30 second stuns, you can take advantage of their ‘refractory periods’ to go on the offensive. If the warrior’s stuns are down, you can try to wail on him while dodging his third aa attack. If you have to go ham for whatever reason with his stuns up, you will eat the aa chain so you can save up endurance for the stun. If you are engaging on him with both of his stuns up, you may want to bide time for your signet of shadows or infiltrator’s signet to be up so you can avoid the second stun. If the warrior’s yielding a hammer, he’s probably invested deep into Defense trait line, and you probably wouldn’t go far trying to kite him with SB.

On the other hand, if all you know is that the warrior can stun you twice, you will allow the warrior to dictate the flow by letting him to bide his cooldowns freely and go on the offensive when he wants to. Again, it seems that many of us simply don’t bother with trying to acquaintance ourselves with enemy skills or cool downs to develop counter-plays but just settle with dodging when seeing something flashy.

Anyways, as a thief main with something like 70% of my game hours clocked on my thief, I can say that some of our play styles, mainly D/D, is fairly counter-intuitive to learning the other classes better or just improving in general. We can tunnel vision into hitting our CnD and positioning for backstab for some limited success in PvP. We don’t bother learning enemy moves outside their stuns and blocks since we are probably going to just try and dodge them until we can CnD again. We are rarely punished for gross misplays or general kittentiness since we can safely disengage to avoid dying.

Elm.8169:

snip

This is why I run no-stealth S/P. It forces you to adapt to each situation, and you have no time to develop a set rotation other than when initiating or escaping. Each animation is a tell sign for a different move. Learning everything your enemies have up their sleeves is absolutely key in winning a fight, and often people lose to the class(es) they don’t understand. Browsing their forums helps a lot as well. Necros cry about having no stun breaks and very difficult access to stability. You rip their stability when it pops and begin to stun then and interrupt their casts and the playing field tips in your favor. Warriors have lots of access to stability, but they lack instant condition removal, making Blind a huge issue for them. Dropping Black Powder and ripping their stability from Rampage or their 15-second trait/stance combo will net you a huge amount of time where you’re immune to their CC and they’re vulnerable to interrupts and attacks. Poison also mitigates the healing their signet can deal, so it’s important to have Shortbow for Choking Gas and 5 points in Deadly Arts.

Many thieves don’t utilize combo fields and finishers, either. A few seconds of stealth, even for someone primarily stealthless, can be the saving grace in a fight. Throw down Black Powder, swap to SB and put a Cluster Bomb in and you’ve got a free escape. Health low when fighting a ranger? Steal over to him, put down his water field and start spamming blast finishers while kiting his pet, applying damage and bleeding to his pet/him and healing yourself for 2k bursts. There are always little tricks like this you can use when in specific situations, but no situation is cut and dry when bringing no stealth to the table, and every move matters.

@Jorun
The same could be said for D/D which has no condi removal on weapons and a gap closer that can be easily slowed or disabled. Stealth on it is entirely dependent on hitting a melee range attack. While pistol whip is largely underwhelming (for me) also, S/P contains more utility.

Diff’rent strokes.

Yishis didn’t adapt that much. If a player uses D/D properly, they wouldn’t need many initiative gain traits because essentially the point of it is to backstab your enemy to death. Yishis did it right as always.

Anyways, another good vid from a very good thief.

cool video, but it is sad that thief has to go wvw for duels instead of spvp becouse of point mode and stealth not caping mechanic

cool video, but it is sad that thief has to go wvw for duels instead of spvp becouse of point mode and stealth not caping mechanic

Urejt.5648:

cool video, but it is sad that thief has to go wvw for duels instead of spvp becouse of point mode and stealth not caping mechanic

The crit dmg cap in sPvP is a deal killer for CnD.

I have been playing this build with a few small changes for months and still not nearly as good as he is.

Yishis dropped infusion of shadows for shadows embrace.

I like yishis videos. He plays a power build and does it well. No reason to hate on his videos nor over praise them. They are great for new players learning the game and entertaining.

I run full zerkers and d/p. I like having all useful weapon skills and hitting really hard. I don’t run the setup as him and I do just as well.

Dee Jay.2460:

I am sorry but I absolutely disagree.

Most classes just rotate their cooldown and spam whatever is ready for maximum efficiency. I have less than 2 hour played on my Warrior and can play him competitively.

Don’t use an insanely OP warrior to make a point. It discredits the rest of your post.

As for the OP, the videos are great.

the mesmer fight was fun to watch actually

i am more fan of Caed vids though

Don’t wanna be a kitten but I’ve said this before, WvW level is too kitten low.

I don’t saying he’s bad or good, I’m saying anyone can make a video and show us kills.

But yeah, thank you for all your effort to make the video, I’ve seen some of your videos and they’re great.

Elxdark.9702:

Don’t wanna be a kitten but I’ve said this before, WvW level is too kitten low.

Which automatically means everyone who’s running around in WvW is a noob. At least that’s what you’re implying.

Elxdark.9702:

I don’t saying he’s bad or good, I’m saying anyone can make a video and show us kills.

The difference is, “anyone” can show us kills against upleveled and/or new/bad players. However, he is showing us kills against people who clearly know what they’re doing, and also against groups of players which isn’t that easy either if you’re alone, even if they aren’t that skilled.

Funny to see people finding something negative to say… Yishis is a great player and great for the thief community. Very few thieves consistently post videos as informative and constructive as his.

Pixels.6532:

Funny to see people finding something negative to say… Yishis is a great player and great for the thief community. Very few thieves consistently post videos as informative and constructive as his.

Very few thieves have rigs that they can record at decent settings on, otherwise I’m positive there would be at least one more thief doing this.

Saturn.6591:

Elxdark.9702:

Don’t wanna be a kitten but I’ve said this before, WvW level is too kitten low.

Which automatically means everyone who’s running around in WvW is a noob. At least that’s what you’re implying.

Elxdark.9702:

I don’t saying he’s bad or good, I’m saying anyone can make a video and show us kills.

The difference is, “anyone” can show us kills against upleveled and/or new/bad players. However, he is showing us kills against people who clearly know what they’re doing, and also against groups of players which isn’t that easy either if you’re alone, even if they aren’t that skilled.

First, yes I think not all but most people in WvW don’t know about pvp in this game.

Second, he killed a longbow hammer warrior with d/d, that will never happen against a good hambow warrior.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Pixels.6532:

Funny to see people finding something negative to say… Yishis is a great player and great for the thief community. Very few thieves consistently post videos as informative and constructive as his.

Very few thieves have rigs that they can record at decent settings on, otherwise I’m positive there would be at least one more thief doing this.

people still have rigs that cant record? news to me.

Saturn.6591:

Elxdark.9702:

Don’t wanna be a kitten but I’ve said this before, WvW level is too kitten low.

Which automatically means everyone who’s running around in WvW is a noob. At least that’s what you’re implying.

Elxdark.9702:

I don’t saying he’s bad or good, I’m saying anyone can make a video and show us kills.

The difference is, “anyone” can show us kills against upleveled and/or new/bad players. However, he is showing us kills against people who clearly know what they’re doing, and also against groups of players which isn’t that easy either if you’re alone, even if they aren’t that skilled.

hjave to disagree here. i was a tier 2 server forever. yishis is from blackgate…. a tier 1. playing in tier 2 for so long…. there were really good players and fights. for a few weeks in a for we were switching 3/4th ranks andplaying tier 1 those few weeks. if i was roaming…i never got downed once. so when he said the caliber of players is so kitten low. hes right. i barely played after i realized how HORRID tier 1 players are at small combat and 1v1 / 2v1s etc. i never got downed even once if it was a fair fight. tier 1 is diff. i could sit there all by myself and have a zerg of 100 pass by withing 600 range and not even touch me….bc they are disciplined and have a goal. none of the other tiers are like that. hence they only zerg in wvw tier 1 servers not really roam. so yes yishis maybe a roamer but tier 1 is garbage and i would NEVER go to tier 1 server. its a joke. not saying theres no good players. but in 3 weeks i couldnt find one that put up a good fight against me. and a montage against so so to eh players doesnt show skill. you put him in a tourney against good players (other thieves andengineers etcc) he might not make it out of the first round. any DECENT thief can make a video as you see above. just takes time to gather enough decent kills so you dont look nubby. why dont u check the space between his videos. theres a reason they are not every few days or every week. not saying he doesnt have a life but even playing 5 hours of wvw a week would be more than enough.,

Viking Jorun.5413:

Very few thieves have rigs that they can record at decent settings on, otherwise I’m positive there would be at least one more thief doing this.

Decent settings is rather vague. I can record 1080 at low – medium settings (native 1080 resolution, high lod about 30fps), on a simple i3 rig. I will not be trying 1080 in a zerg vs zerg but then, neither is Yishis.

frans.8092:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Very few thieves have rigs that they can record at decent settings on, otherwise I’m positive there would be at least one more thief doing this.

Decent settings is rather vague. I can record 1080 at low – medium settings (native 1080 resolution, high lod about 30fps), on a simple i3 rig. I will not be trying 1080 in a zerg vs zerg but then, neither is Yishis.

I’ve tried livestreaming on my rig at 540p, and while the framerate never drops below 40 the video is still choppy. Maybe recording onto disk is different? I’ve only got native 720.

My rig goes as follows:

• NVidia 630 GT 1.0 GB
• Intel Core i7 3rd Gen 3632qm 2.6GHz
• 12.0GB RAM

Can play at 60fps with no issues on medium-high settings when not livestreaming, drops to 30-45 when livestreaming on medium-low settings.

Viking Jorun.5413:

frans.8092:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Very few thieves have rigs that they can record at decent settings on, otherwise I’m positive there would be at least one more thief doing this.

Decent settings is rather vague. I can record 1080 at low – medium settings (native 1080 resolution, high lod about 30fps), on a simple i3 rig. I will not be trying 1080 in a zerg vs zerg but then, neither is Yishis.

I’ve tried livestreaming on my rig at 540p, and while the framerate never drops below 40 the video is still choppy. Maybe recording onto disk is different? I’ve only got native 720.

My rig goes as follows:

• NVidia 630 GT 1.0 GB
• Intel Core i7 3rd Gen 3632qm 2.6GHz
• 12.0GB RAM

Can play at 60fps with no issues on medium-high settings when not livestreaming, drops to 30-45 when livestreaming on medium-low settings.

Try streaming with OBS openbroadcaster software. If the video is choppy while your frame rate is fine, then your upload speed may be too low.

Pixels.6532:

Funny to see people finding something negative to say… Yishis is a great player and great for the thief community. Very few thieves consistently post videos as informative and constructive as his.

I don’t think anyone had anything negative to say about the player himself.

I don’t think anyone doubts Yishi’s qualities. It’s just the apparent “adapting” and game-play itself that was debated.

I for one thought the debate was slightly more interesting than the usual junk.

Excalibur.9748:

Viking Jorun.5413:

frans.8092:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Very few thieves have rigs that they can record at decent settings on, otherwise I’m positive there would be at least one more thief doing this.

Decent settings is rather vague. I can record 1080 at low – medium settings (native 1080 resolution, high lod about 30fps), on a simple i3 rig. I will not be trying 1080 in a zerg vs zerg but then, neither is Yishis.

I’ve tried livestreaming on my rig at 540p, and while the framerate never drops below 40 the video is still choppy. Maybe recording onto disk is different? I’ve only got native 720.

My rig goes as follows:

• NVidia 630 GT 1.0 GB
• Intel Core i7 3rd Gen 3632qm 2.6GHz
• 12.0GB RAM

Can play at 60fps with no issues on medium-high settings when not livestreaming, drops to 30-45 when livestreaming on medium-low settings.

Try streaming with OBS openbroadcaster software. If the video is choppy while your frame rate is fine, then your upload speed may be too low.

Upload shouldn’t be an issue when recording.
I tried OBS yesterday and once we had Quicksync up recording seemed to have little impact on framerate. I think Quicksync allows OBS to use the otherwise unused graphics processors in your CPU to help encoding. And Lightworks seems to be able to import it
But I still need to test with 1080.