Guild Wars 2

Food items that give special bonuses upon a critical hit now have an internal cooldown before they can produce the special bonus again.

S/P is no longer viable in WvWvW, Going to go backstab now like all the other thieves since I can’t survive without stealth.

I run S/P combined with D/D succesfully in WvWvW and I never eat food (mostly because I always forget to eat)?

S/P is great against any melee class or for soloing supply camps. Also, with a fellow thief, you are really annoying against any class with coordinated switching pistol whips.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

I run S/P combined with D/D succesfully in WvWvW and I never eat food (mostly because I always forget to eat)?

S/P is great against any melee class or for soloing supply camps. Also, with a fellow thief, you are really annoying against any class with coordinated switching pistol whips.

Its not a good class, the good thing about it was its ability to heal with food/malice, and without that (it doesn’t have stealth.) it just sucks compared to all the other builds.

Daecollo.9578:

Food items that give special bonuses upon a critical hit now have an internal cooldown before they can produce the special bonus again.

S/P is no longer viable in WvWvW, Going to go backstab now like all the other thieves since I can’t survive without stealth.

Don’t worry, ANet is happy with everyone playing the same build. There doesn’t need to be variety of any kind at all, like there was in GW1.

Daecollo.9578:

Food items that give special bonuses upon a critical hit now have an internal cooldown before they can produce the special bonus again.

S/P is no longer viable in WvWvW, Going to go backstab now like all the other thieves since I can’t survive without stealth.

Lol if you leave a sword for something as small as this.
Then peace.

ensoriki.5789:

Daecollo.9578:

Food items that give special bonuses upon a critical hit now have an internal cooldown before they can produce the special bonus again.

S/P is no longer viable in WvWvW, Going to go backstab now like all the other thieves since I can’t survive without stealth.

Lol if you leave a sword for something as small as this.
Then peace.

Lol. I don’t think you understood my meaning, I said Pistol Whip.

“S/P No longer viable”
“Going to backstab”
Don’t backfoot on your words now Daecollo.
I’ll have to start screen printing them to a shirt.

ensoriki.5789:

“S/P No longer viable”
“Going to backstab”
Don’t backfoot on your words now Daecollo.
I’ll have to start screen printing them to a shirt.

What did you think would happen if they removed viable builds? everyone will eventually be the same.

Don’t know what you’re talking about Willis.
If you’re talking WvW?
D/x always been viable.
S/D fully functional in WvW (my set) and PvE.
And I’m a frequent user of S/x in spvp, extrapolated to WvW where my stats are superior and food is relevant regardless, I see no reason to claim it’s viability was removed.

The sky is not falling.

the food nerf affect thief less then other classes
even if i used omnombery ghosts all the time, our aoe was very limtied compared to other classes

omnom ghost nerf completely nerfs p/p unloads, s/p PW tanking and CB detonate melee builds. That’s what allowed us to heal up/stay in fight. Less procs/less dmg/heals, we gonna need to withdraw more throughout fights, yay…

Rayya.2591:

the food nerf affect thief less then other classes
even if i used omnombery ghosts all the time, our aoe was very limtied compared to other classes

It broke two viable builds.

S/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.
P/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

Daecollo.9578:

Rayya.2591:

the food nerf affect thief less then other classes
even if i used omnombery ghosts all the time, our aoe was very limtied compared to other classes

It broke two viable builds.

S/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.
P/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.

and this leaves us with essentially stealth builds to control argo (for truly viable PvE dung builds) but wait didnt they go and mess with stealth not resetting agro.. lets hope I am reading this last change a bit.

and yes S/P and Sb melee CB builds are hurt a TON by this change, 99% of the time my thief hits the floor I can look down and say one of two things, “man, I forgot to use food when we started” or “food just ran out” and by food i mean omn pies.

p/p I am not nearly as reliant on food so I will not feel pain as bad, but It did kill any of my high dmg builds I like to use…

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

Was just about to say that…

Koga.7215:

and this leaves us with essentially stealth builds to control argo

Ben Affleck already got robbed at the Academy Awards, now this????

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

30 minute Buffs with no recast isn’t a temporary buff.

Daecollo.9578:

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

30 minute Buffs with no recast isn’t a temporary buff.

I will rephrase then to consumable buffs.

Maugetarr.6823:

Daecollo.9578:

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

30 minute Buffs with no recast isn’t a temporary buff.

I will rephrase then to consumable buffs.

I’m sorry, but when you make builds you build them around all available means, not just traits, but weapons/food/traits everything.

If you don’t or can’t understand that, then you shouldn’t try to.

Daecollo.9578:

Rayya.2591:

the food nerf affect thief less then other classes
even if i used omnombery ghosts all the time, our aoe was very limtied compared to other classes

It broke two viable builds.

S/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.
P/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.

Garbage.
If a build needs food to work, it’s gimmick trash to begin with.
Might as well of Spikefruit abused.

ensoriki.5789:

Daecollo.9578:

Rayya.2591:

the food nerf affect thief less then other classes
even if i used omnombery ghosts all the time, our aoe was very limtied compared to other classes

It broke two viable builds.

S/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.
P/P Acrobatic Vampire Thief.

Garbage.

Pretty much now! Backstab and P/D Thief for me.

I try to make builds that can stand on their own. Consumables are a device to give you an extra edge (imo).

Maugetarr.6823:

Daecollo.9578:

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

30 minute Buffs with no recast isn’t a temporary buff.

I will rephrase then to consumable buffs.

actually I would say the exact reverse of this, any build that does not factor in the consumables that are available to counter some of its weaknesses is likely a poor build that is not as good as ones that factor in the consumables.

and by this I do no run omn Pie in every situation or every dungeon, I always have other foods for when they fit better or in areas i don’t actually need the food.

for a thief to melee you need to have 1 of three things going, 1. omn pie, 2. alot of dodge rolls = loss in dmg, 3. stealth. Yes I know people will say DB is anoher option but in the current state Condi dmg is crap unless you know your the only on in the group doing it.

I never had to use this things

“2-Second Internal Cooldown.” Now.

Koga.7215:

Maugetarr.6823:

Daecollo.9578:

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

30 minute Buffs with no recast isn’t a temporary buff.

I will rephrase then to consumable buffs.

actually I would say the exact reverse of this, any build that does not factor in the consumables that are available to counter some of its weaknesses is likely a poor build that is not as good as ones that factor in the consumables.

Yes, food in a build makes it better, doesn’t matter what build, because it has extra stats.
However, a build that REQUIRES food isn’t a good build in the first place.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Koga.7215:

Maugetarr.6823:

Daecollo.9578:

Maugetarr.6823:

To me, if a build wasn’t viable without temporary buffs then it wasn’t really a viable build in the first place.

30 minute Buffs with no recast isn’t a temporary buff.

I will rephrase then to consumable buffs.

actually I would say the exact reverse of this, any build that does not factor in the consumables that are available to counter some of its weaknesses is likely a poor build that is not as good as ones that factor in the consumables.

Yes, food in a build makes it better, doesn’t matter what build, because it has extra stats.
However, a build that REQUIRES food isn’t a good build in the first place.

Sorry, but if it works then it is a viable build, and now its not viable anymore, nothing you say can change it.

Who said about being viable and working?
I said a “good” build

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Who said about being viable and working?
I said a “good” build

It was actually a very viable and fun build, I could beat other thieves, backstab thieves and other classes with it.

RIP S/P thieves.

Rofl I was reading this on my phone just now cracking up. Daecollo sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t on things you say. This one I don’t understand at all.

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

Ill take butternut squash over omnom ghost anyday

oZii.2864:

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

So you’re saying that, just when using PW, there’s no difference in proccing with a probability of 66% on every one of the 9 hits of the skill instead of proccing just on one of the 9 hits and then you’re done during a single skill use?

Oh my, I didn’t realize A kittenING FOOD BUFF BROKE OR MADE BUILDS. Noob.

I honestly dont think this killed the build in the very least. guys are just overreacting.
Any build that relies on a food to be successful was a failed build to begin with. S/P is not murdered by this food nerf since it could be used without it. The food was a supplement to add to your survivability but in no way make or break the build. it helped you be lazy and take hits more. Now with the food buff it helps to supplement taking some aoe dmg but without you being able to sit in the middle of 3-4 eles aoes and still burn people down. Oh no, I guess you have to roll now? Yea, really killed the build…

Galandil.9641:

oZii.2864:

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

So you’re saying that, just when using PW, there’s no difference in proccing with a probability of 66% on every one of the 9 hits of the skill instead of proccing just on one of the 9 hits and then you’re done during a single skill use?

Uhh I am saying that I don’t see how a food buff makes or breaks a build. If anything a 0/0/30/20/20 condi spec needs pizza more than PW and omnomberries. You can’t get to +75% bleed duration without pizza you can get to 6 secs but I rather have 7 secs.

Sigil of fire and sigil of air are around 10% and 14% more damage respectively. If they removed sigil of fire and air from the game would that totally crush all burst builds? I am sure people would still run burst.

Same with butternut squash curry, maintenance oils etc. They allow you to be more flexible in your stat and armor selection but I can’t see someone basing a build on butternut squash curry. If they didn’t exist then people would just add a bit more crit chance to their build. Sigil of accuracy would become more popular etc.

oZii.2864:

Galandil.9641:

oZii.2864:

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

So you’re saying that, just when using PW, there’s no difference in proccing with a probability of 66% on every one of the 9 hits of the skill instead of proccing just on one of the 9 hits and then you’re done during a single skill use?

Uhh I am saying that I don’t see how a food buff makes or breaks a build. If anything a 0/0/30/20/20 condi spec needs pizza more than PW and omnomberries. You can’t get to +75% bleed duration without pizza you can get to 6 secs but I rather have 7 secs.

Sigil of fire and sigil of air are around 10% and 14% more damage respectively. If they removed sigil of fire and air from the game would that totally crush all burst builds? I am sure people would still run burst.

Same with butternut squash curry, maintenance oils etc. They allow you to be more flexible in your stat and armor selection but I can’t see someone basing a build on butternut squash curry. If they didn’t exist then people would just add a bit more crit chance to their build. Sigil of accuracy would become more popular etc.

Yeah, I don’t think I even need to say anything else, your post alone is self explanatory to my argument.

Are you sure you don’t mean “Death Blossom?”

Pistol Whip is a Power Move, its useless in condition builds.

I sometimes do not understand ANET. S/P was already the weakest of the thief builds in sPvP or WvW. This just makes it worse.

S/P is still viable.
Its just harder than the simple macroed CnD-Mug-Backstab combo…

I have seen really good S/P thiefs using crazy combinations of PW and IS with other things…

Harder than BS, yea…
Dead? no…

Its a L2P issue…

it was awesome using whirling axe against 4 , 5 ppl that where attacking you and gain life instead of losing it.

Daecollo.9578:

oZii.2864:

Galandil.9641:

oZii.2864:

66% chance to crit to steal 350 life and an additional 70 precision which would be around 3-4 crit chance.

I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build. S/P thieves and P/P are rare breads anyway. I don’t know I don’t see how this makes or breaks a build.

So you’re saying that, just when using PW, there’s no difference in proccing with a probability of 66% on every one of the 9 hits of the skill instead of proccing just on one of the 9 hits and then you’re done during a single skill use?

Uhh I am saying that I don’t see how a food buff makes or breaks a build. If anything a 0/0/30/20/20 condi spec needs pizza more than PW and omnomberries. You can’t get to +75% bleed duration without pizza you can get to 6 secs but I rather have 7 secs.

Sigil of fire and sigil of air are around 10% and 14% more damage respectively. If they removed sigil of fire and air from the game would that totally crush all burst builds? I am sure people would still run burst.

Same with butternut squash curry, maintenance oils etc. They allow you to be more flexible in your stat and armor selection but I can’t see someone basing a build on butternut squash curry. If they didn’t exist then people would just add a bit more crit chance to their build. Sigil of accuracy would become more popular etc.

Yeah, I don’t think I even need to say anything else, your post alone is self explanatory to my argument.

Are you sure you don’t mean “Death Blossom?”

Pistol Whip is a Power Move, its useless in condition builds.

What? rofl No I don’t mean pistol whip I understand what you are trying to argue here. What I am saying is that if there is any thief build that you could say suffers the most from not having food would be a P/D build using traits 0/0/30/20/20. Is that much clearer than my other post?

The point still stands though that a build shouldn’t be killed cause of food and your basically sayiing that the builds are killed because of food I said I would rather have curry than omnomberry ghost.

I play WvW with S/P and never used any foods, had no issues with it whatsoever. So people are now complaining they can’t jump into the middle of a zerg and pistolwhip/Whirling Axe and get healed at the same time, which was stupidly strong and should’ve had the internal cooldown from the start.

All I got to say is, learn to use sword’s 2 and pistol’s 5, son.

My things break mighty easy round here. Backstabbing is for Kittens, pistol whip is just not practical no matter what you eat the point of a thief is NOT to stand still.

I saw omnom ghost getting nerfed from a mile away, your fault for getting too attached and letting it run your build.

I use s/p in spvp and love it, ive had pistol whip crit for 11k without any food. Relying on omnom ghost for healing makes me lol.

@ elmuerto sword is designed to keep your opponent standing still with you(stuns/roots), its just a different playstyle. Just because you cant make it work doesnt make it a bad option.

Archer.1658:

Oh my, I didn’t realize A kittenING FOOD BUFF BROKE OR MADE BUILDS. Noob.

Im chosing your post, but this can be applied to any other post that doesnt understand whats at stake here. Nothing personal, i reiterate.

Omnonberry ghost was a type of food that, due to its power, was capable of making a buid around itself. No other food has this much power.The closest i can think of is rare pizza for condition builds, with its ability to make low duration bleeds stack immensely. in example, a pistol/dagger thief.
This building around itself stems from the fact that this food gives a ~350 life steal (which is dmg to target) every time it procs from a crit. And it has a 66% chance to do so, coupled with 3.4% extra crit chance. How does this works?
Lets say that you have 60% crit chance, and ure using a multi hit skill as your bread and butter. Pistol Whip serves nicely. With this much crit chance, ghost food can EASILY trigger 3 times per Pistol Whip. Its the bare minimum you can expect from it. If its a hasted Pistol Whip, (as they usually are, this is how you stunlock ppl with it), you can perform 2 PW’s in ~2.5 secs, and proc 6 ghost hits. In that timeframe, you deal ~2Kmore dmg, and heal yourself for the same amount. Its a powerhouse in dmg+evading+healing. This will offset the lack os stealth inherent to PW builds, and in www almost every thief out there is going 30 in Shadow Arts for the sheer power of shadow rejuv+shadow embrace+infusion of shadow/cloaked in shadow. Im one of them.
What did the update do? The mechanic of PW is this: first, hits with pistol for the stun, this hit is the longest part of PW animation,it takes almost one sec to complete (half sec on haste), then, it resumes the sword hits, 8 of them in rapid sucession. Since the update/nerf, made the ghost food have an internal cooldown of 2 secs, if you now want to replicate the given example of 2 PW’s on haste and 6 procs, you wiil have this:
-Pistol stun takes 0.5 s to complete, it actually does crit and procs food, now you wait 2 secs, for the nex proc.. at this time youre already in the end of your second PW, so the next proc needs to be on the third PW… This made it so that PW+Omnon Ghost original build was erradicated, which i think was what the OP was trying to convey.
Just to finalize, before this patch, the Omnon foods were by far the most powerfull buffs to power builds out there,all you needed was upwards of 50% crit chance and ideally a multi hit build (100 Blades, 100 nades, warrior axe, Cluster bombing, GS mesmer autoattack, you name it). For comparison, sigil of air procs twice every 10 secs for 4k dmg total, no healing attached, can see its dmg deflected by armor/protection,etc. An Unload spammer with ghost can easily trigger it 3 times per Unload, 5 Unloads in 10 secs…

the OP builds are gone because of 2 seconds CD on life steal food, yet, so many cry because OP’ness is gone …

DanH.5879:

the OP builds are gone because of 2 seconds CD on life steal food, yet, so many cry because OP’ness is gone …

Yes, I will just go back to my D/D Stealth Backstab Valkyrie Build, since its just fine and nobody complains about it.

Everyone should just be the same.

Omnomberry’s are still viable
with an 2 seconds int cooldown you get 325x 15 = 4500 extra hp every 30 seconds
considering that guardian heals with virtue of resolve arround 2700 hp /30 sec
and warrior with healing signet -6000 hp

If the food buff makes or breaks builds, then the food buff is broken.

End of story.

Ahhh, all these posts of “broken food that I completely relied on to not have to actively play is now fixed, breaking my build”. This supposed nerf has driven every aoe/rapid attack build to the ground. The simple fact is, these in of themselves are not “builds”, but setups that exploited an OP food and were reliant on that broken mechanic.

Honestly the thief has the highest combat mobility in the game. Almost every weapon combination contains spammable mobility moves, a ton of evade and blind moves. They have so much going for them to allow them to control a fight that I don’t see there as a bad weapon choice if traited right. The only thing is culling breaks stealth in WvW, so any build that doesn’t exploit that is comparatively weak now that the food exploit is gone.

Drawing Guy.3701:

Ahhh, all these posts of “broken food that I completely relied on to not have to actively play is now fixed, breaking my build”. This supposed nerf has driven every aoe/rapid attack build to the ground. The simple fact is, these in of themselves are not “builds”, but setups that exploited an OP food and were reliant on that broken mechanic.

Honestly the thief has the highest combat mobility in the game. Almost every weapon combination contains spammable mobility moves, a ton of evade and blind moves. They have so much going for them to allow them to control a fight that I don’t see there as a bad weapon choice if traited right. The only thing is culling breaks stealth in WvW, so any build that doesn’t exploit that is comparatively weak now that the food exploit is gone.

Of course, you pretty much got rid of the rapid attack healing option, but that is ok because we still have backstab. Now we can all be the same!

S/P was viable before this patch? lol

Drawing Guy.3701:

The simple fact is, these in of themselves are not “builds”, but setups that exploited an OP food and were reliant on that broken mechanic.

This.

It was readily apparent by anyone that used it, this was not working as intended.

This is not a nerf, it is a bug fix. Same as Shadow Strike shadow stepping backwards without target contact, which people also QQ’ed about.