Guild Wars 2

Please explain why you completely nerfed our dungeon viability by adding 1s to the revealed debuff.

Were we overpowered to begin with?

Thanks

thx for this thread.

we all want the answers i guess

Any form of open communication would be appreciated.

/signed

I don’t see a good reason for the Revealed increase in PvE. It reduces the effectiveness of everything that triggers on stealth and reduces our stealth builds DPS. It was harder to take my thief on runs after the stealth/agro nerf last patch, this is just salt in the wound. I used to love my thief for PvE, I no longer do…

Blood~

twoscoops.6913:

Please explain why you completely nerfed our dungeon viability by adding 1s to the revealed debuff.

Were we overpowered to begin with?

Thanks

Please explain what Anet did to COMPLETELY nerf your dungeon viability.

thnxs for the post, as for my opinión if Arenanet wanted to nerf us they should of decrease the dmg of our auto attack or our precisión i dont know but now its imposible for me to play (stealth build: faster in stealth, heal in stealth, gain initiative in stealth, etc….).

This just sucks….

I don’t know that it “completely nerfed our dungeon viability”, but the way it’s implemented is certainly terrible for P/D.

With P/D you used to be able to Vital Shot, Vital Shot, C&D, Sneak Attack, repeat. The C&D landed just as the revealed debuff expired, and it was very neat/clean.
Now, the revealed debuff expires halfway in-between the third and fourth Vital Shot. It’s almost impossible to time the C&D unless you wait for the 4th Vital Shot, and if you do, P/D dps got nerfed by OVER 33%!

That’s completely unacceptable for a weapon set that was already low compared to our other choices.

More shots need to be added to Sneak Attack or the attack speed of Vital Shot needs to be sped up… SOMETHING needs to be done to compensate because a 33% damage nerf in PvE due to a PvP change is absurd.

Sifu.6527:

twoscoops.6913:

Please explain why you completely nerfed our dungeon viability by adding 1s to the revealed debuff.

Were we overpowered to begin with?

Thanks

Please explain what Anet did to COMPLETELY nerf your dungeon viability.

This. All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Lol your answer will be a locked thread due to all caps. They don’t even need to read it.

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

Name a class with multiple optimal builds?

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

i would actually ask for the ones responsible for balancing the classes to be fired.
More than obvious they have no clue what they are doing.
“let’s try this and see what happens”

getting 2 nerfs (culling fix and revealed increase and NO buffs) sucks bad…they are a bunch of liars.
just my 2 cents…
i hardly see a reason to play a thief in pve anymore. we are not wanted in pug parties anyways…

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

Did the patch preventing you from continuing to do what you stated above?

Edit – Editing because you edited :P

Use a pistol for blinds?

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

I used to primarily run a non-stealth S/P build.

Then they nerfed that in PvE based on PvP balancing which it had little effect on, too. And hey, forgive me for playing a thief and wanting to use one of its primary mechanics. If I just wanted to stand there in place slapping 3 targets with a melee weapon, I’d get on my warrior who does it far better.

Darkjoy.3092:

Name a class with multiple optimal builds?

Viable != Optimal
P/D was never optimal, but it was certainly viable during most of the game.
Post-patch though? I don’t know. Its damage was nerfed even harder than the Pistol Whip changes hurt S/P builds. And unlike S/P back then, P/D wasn’t even our strongest dps set. It was near the bottom and this change nerfed it into the ground.

They really should have compensated S/D and P/D in some way in conjunction with the change to revealed.

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

Did the patch preventing you from continuing to do what you stated above?

The patch prevented it from being anywhere near as effective at it used to be, yes.

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

If blast finishing is the most optimal thing I can do to increase the over all effectiveness of my party so we can quickly finish an instance , then yes it is. Trust me the only one noticing your’e damage decrease is you

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

Did the patch preventing you from continuing to do what you stated above?

The patch prevented it from being anywhere near as effective at it used to be, yes.

Please tell us what weapon set and build you use.

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

Did the patch preventing you from continuing to do what you stated above?

The patch prevented it from being anywhere near as effective at it used to be, yes.

Please tell us what weapon set and build you use.

PTV S/D with Sigil of Paralysation and Sigil of Fire

0/30/25/15/0

VI X XI
V VI
II

PTV Armor with Emerald Orbs
Berserker Accessories
Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew
Superior Sharpening Stone

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

Did the patch preventing you from continuing to do what you stated above?

The patch prevented it from being anywhere near as effective at it used to be, yes.

Please tell us what weapon set and build you use.

PTV S/D with Sigil of Paralysation and Sigil of Fire

0/30/25/15/0

VI X XI
V VI
II

PTV Armor with Emerald Orbs
Berserker Accessories

Ok im done with this thread…..

Next patch will bring something like:

Blind: this debuff now will affect the target only 50% of times.

Darkjoy.3092:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

Auesis.7301:

Sifu.6527:

phor.7952:

Darkjoy.3092:

All I hear is a bunch of selfish thieves that don’t use blast finishers. Should of rolled warriors. Good thieves will be primarily using SB to give might and heals and will use dagger when needed

Because there should be only one viable build for each class, right?

There are other builds that does not rely on stealth. Right back at you and the OP!

So what you’re saying is that we should ALL go to those builds, and pigeonhole ourselves in to remaining viabilities, rather than implore Arenanet to give us build variety that we crave, especially when one of our entire traitlines is based around said stealth, and that tree needed more selfless buffs to begin with.

As for darkjoy, is blast finishers your answer for everything? Is that all Thief is to you? A Blast dispenser? Sorry, I like my Thief to be capable of multiple things at once. I quite enjoyed being a blind/daze control-based front-line fighter, absorbing a good portion of potential damage while knocking key mobs out of commission and reducing the threat to the team in a good radius around my person. That build isn’t completely kitten at it stands, but it’s crippled beyond belief, as that 1 second is almost always the difference between life and death (blinds have worn out, dodging reducing DPS significantly during this window and potentially screwing up the mob alignment). Guess I now have to go back to spamming Cluster Bomb like I used to before I grew a pair.

Did the patch preventing you from continuing to do what you stated above?

The patch prevented it from being anywhere near as effective at it used to be, yes.

Please tell us what weapon set and build you use.

PTV S/D with Sigil of Paralysation and Sigil of Fire

0/30/25/15/0

VI X XI
V VI
II

PTV Armor with Emerald Orbs
Berserker Accessories

Ok im done with this thread…..

Why? Because I have a different method of supporting my team through control methods rather than spamming Cluster Bomb all day, while actually doing something else that’s useful? But please, if you think that all a Thief should EVER do is spam Cluster Bomb, I don’t think you have any right to be in any threads regarding build diversity. Good riddance.

Darkjoy.3092:

Ok im done with this thread…..

Thank God.

just count and extra one one thousand and cnd again, Not too hard.

I’m going on a hunger strike: no more omnomberry pies untill I get answers, Anet!

replied just to support this post as a PVE/dungeon player

Brando.1374:

just count and extra one one thousand and cnd again, Not too hard.

You’re right. it isn’t hard and I’m already accustomed to it. But it doesn’t feel smooth or polished and was a dps nerf to pve thieves for no reason at all.

Sifu.6527:

twoscoops.6913:

Please explain why you completely nerfed our dungeon viability by adding 1s to the revealed debuff.

Were we overpowered to begin with?

Thanks

Please explain what Anet did to COMPLETELY nerf your dungeon viability.

Sure..
1) There is an entire trait line devoted to stealth. Because of the extra 1 second reveal plus the no reduction in agro…. the line becomes rather useless except as a way to run past mobs before they see you.
2) A good portion of a thief’s ability to remove conditions, evade attacks, and apply boons requires stealth. So, with an extra second of reveal, those traits become clunky and do not synergize with a build.
3) In order to gain most of our major dmg abilities and our good heals for survivability, the abilities require stealth or use the stealth mechanic within them… Backstab, CnD, critical hits while in stealth, heals while in stealth, regen while in stealth, ect.
4) One of our downed abilities is to stealth while healing… however, since that no longer reduces agro, the mobs simply stand on top of us waiting for the stealth to fade and clobber us into mud pudding.

Does that answer your question? Oh, I know what you are going to say… well build a thief that doesn’t use those abilities… sure, now go build your guardian without heals or boons, build your warrior with light armor and no banners, build your ele without AOE, build your Mesmer without clones or invulnerability, build your ranger without his/her pet… should I go on?

Noy only stealth, was caltrops making the thief op in dungeons or open pve? i dont think so. -5 seg. to caltrops only for QQ players in pvp.
and the cuasi extint venom share thief and his Basiliks Venon change? who cares about those thief wen you have another better 7 profession to do suport in pve.

You have shadow refuge….

phor.7952:

I don’t know that it “completely nerfed our dungeon viability”, but the way it’s implemented is certainly terrible for P/D.

With P/D you used to be able to Vital Shot, Vital Shot, C&D, Sneak Attack, repeat. The C&D landed just as the revealed debuff expired, and it was very neat/clean.
Now, the revealed debuff expires halfway in-between the third and fourth Vital Shot. It’s almost impossible to time the C&D unless you wait for the 4th Vital Shot, and if you do, P/D dps got nerfed by OVER 33%!

That’s completely unacceptable for a weapon set that was already low compared to our other choices.

More shots need to be added to Sneak Attack or the attack speed of Vital Shot needs to be sped up… SOMETHING needs to be done to compensate because a 33% damage nerf in PvE due to a PvP change is absurd.

I feel your pain. With D/D I used to be ale to CnD, backstab, get off a full 1 combo then CnD again. The CnD would hit exactly when the Revealed debuff ended, it was beautiful. Now it ends somwhere between hit #2 and hit #3.

I can still CnD after hit #3 but it’s so clunky now. It just doesn’t feel as smooth. Top that off with the fact that longer rotations = fewer backstabs and significantly lower dps on long fights. It just feels awful all around.

TL;DR The extra second on revealed has so many more repercussions than just extending the time between stealth.

Replied just to bring the thread back up to main page.

Please Anet any form of communication would be appreciated.

Warriors are doing 40K crits with Hundred Blades as we’re speaking. Why didn’t THEY get a pve nerf?

twoscoops.6913:

Replied just to bring the thread back up to main page.

Please Anet any form of communication would be appreciated.

Warriors are doing 40K crits with Hundred Blades as we’re speaking. Why didn’t THEY get a pve nerf?

Obviously they did, it now takes them an extra second to do. Mega nerf.

twoscoops,

Good News!

Anet has not "completely nerfed our dungeon viability ". I did at least 5 dungeons yesterday and I was more than viable, I was optimal!

Thieves to anet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI

twoscoops.6913:

Please explain why you completely nerfed our dungeon viability by adding 1s to the revealed debuff.

Were we overpowered to begin with?

Thanks

Been trying since the patch…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Why-was-stealth-changed/first#post1606818

No answer… and when I posted a similar question in GENERAL discussion (because stealth also affects other classes), I got a warning for violating the forums by double posting the same question… Yet…. ArenaNet wouldn’t answer it.

I followed up with an e-mail to ArenaNet, and got a generic canned response for a double post.

I’ve since given up on the thief breaking changes for our CLASS DEFINING SKILL – with ABSOLUTELY NO explanation. Haven’t played my thief since this craptacular change.

Ok, I’m not one to complain about the nerf, I just adapt and carry on. But the question here is not how much our PvE capability was nerfed, the question is WHY. Why did Anet ditch the original nerf which would be more of a PvP nerf so it would satisfy the whiners about thieves a lot more to begin with, and went with this nerf, which is more of a PvE nerf than a PvP nerf. What is the logic in this…?

Thats also my basic problem Strayhand,

I mainly want to know WHY this nerf was even needed or what was the reason for it to happen.

But as usual those guys won´t answer a single kittening question made by the community.

Revealed debuff shouldn’t even have been applied to PvE from the beginning.

There was no reason for this Nerf. Thiefs were not OP in PvE anyway.
Please explain why you did this to us.

Honestly, I can’t figure out what they’re thinking. In PvE, Stealth should last at least 5 seconds, should drop aggro, and should not debuff you at all.

Even in PvP, culling was 90% of the problem and it would probably be fine as above without it.

I just flat out don’t think they’re very competent.

I was more worried to the nerf about caltrops, TBH.

15s to 10s does nothing in WvW(unless the dude stands in the AoE for 15 seconds), but has a pretty profound effect in PvE.

Doomdesire.9365:

I was more worried to the nerf about caltrops, TBH.

15s to 10s does nothing in WvW(unless the dude stands in the AoE for 15 seconds), but has a pretty profound effect in PvE.

I am neither surprised nor bothered by the nerf to Caltrops, and here’s why – it has always been exceptionally strong for a low level utility skill. So strong, in fact, that it was almost mandatory for open-world play (leveling, etc.) and the bleed stacking + crippling effect was so good that it masked the problems with other skills and the profession in general.

So, while Caltrops took a hit, it’s a good thing, fundamentally. It means that it’s brought in line with other standard utility skills, it’s more thematically appropriate, and it will make it even more obvious how gimpy Thieves are in general and how much we need buffs in other areas.

As an example – the MH Pistol is really bad as a condition weapon, mostly because Vital Shot fires too slowly and Body Shot does nothing useful. Caltrops, in being such a good condition stacking skill, masked this inadequacy heavily and now it will be much more obvious how bad P/D (along with P/P really) needs looking at.

Einlanzer.1627:

Doomdesire.9365:

I was more worried to the nerf about caltrops, TBH.

15s to 10s does nothing in WvW(unless the dude stands in the AoE for 15 seconds), but has a pretty profound effect in PvE.

I am neither surprised nor bothered by the nerf to Caltrops, and here’s why – it has always been exceptionally strong for a low level utility skill. So strong, in fact, that it was almost mandatory for open-world play (leveling, etc.) and the bleed stacking + crippling effect was so good that it masked the problems with other skills and the profession in general.

So, while Caltrops took a hit, it’s a good thing, fundamentally. It means that it’s brought in line with other standard utility skills, it’s more thematically appropriate, and it will make it even more obvious how gimpy Thieves are in general and how much we need buffs in other areas.

As an example – the MH Pistol is really bad as a condition weapon, mostly because Vital Shot fires too slowly and Body Shot does nothing useful. Caltrops, in being such a good condition stacking skill, masked this inadequacy heavily and now it will be much more obvious how bad P/D (along with P/P really) needs looking at.

Good post completely agree on all points.

But man why you have to use big words like “thematically”

I hope Anet reads these topics, but I don’t think so. I mean it’s basic rational logic in most cases yet they don’t see the light….

Einlanzer.1627:

Doomdesire.9365:

I was more worried to the nerf about caltrops, TBH.

15s to 10s does nothing in WvW(unless the dude stands in the AoE for 15 seconds), but has a pretty profound effect in PvE.

I am neither surprised nor bothered by the nerf to Caltrops, and here’s why – it has always been exceptionally strong for a low level utility skill. So strong, in fact, that it was almost mandatory for open-world play (leveling, etc.) and the bleed stacking + crippling effect was so good that it masked the problems with other skills and the profession in general.

So, while Caltrops took a hit, it’s a good thing, fundamentally. It means that it’s brought in line with other standard utility skills, it’s more thematically appropriate, and it will make it even more obvious how gimpy Thieves are in general and how much we need buffs in other areas.

As an example – the MH Pistol is really bad as a condition weapon, mostly because Vital Shot fires too slowly and Body Shot does nothing useful. Caltrops, in being such a good condition stacking skill, masked this inadequacy heavily and now it will be much more obvious how bad P/D (along with P/P really) needs looking at.

Unless they look at nothing and fix nothing lol

Einlanzer.1627:

Doomdesire.9365:

I was more worried to the nerf about caltrops, TBH.

15s to 10s does nothing in WvW(unless the dude stands in the AoE for 15 seconds), but has a pretty profound effect in PvE.

I am neither surprised nor bothered by the nerf to Caltrops, and here’s why – it has always been exceptionally strong for a low level utility skill. So strong, in fact, that it was almost mandatory for open-world play (leveling, etc.) and the bleed stacking + crippling effect was so good that it masked the problems with other skills and the profession in general.

So, while Caltrops took a hit, it’s a good thing, fundamentally. It means that it’s brought in line with other standard utility skills, it’s more thematically appropriate, and it will make it even more obvious how gimpy Thieves are in general and how much we need buffs in other areas.

As an example – the MH Pistol is really bad as a condition weapon, mostly because Vital Shot fires too slowly and Body Shot does nothing useful. Caltrops, in being such a good condition stacking skill, masked this inadequacy heavily and now it will be much more obvious how bad P/D (along with P/P really) needs looking at.

You’re putting far too much faith in the dev team.