Guild Wars 2

Seeing as we’re being pressured in to using this trait for our mobility, I thought I would suggest a way of putting this trait on a “not garbage” level.

1) It actually breaks the stun you’re teleporting away from
2) Does not trigger if you have Stability (like it does now)
3) Reduce cooldown to 15 or 20 seconds, so it will actually proc more than once during a fight and be semi-useful for sustained encounters
4) Grant Vigor instead of Swiftness (5-10 seconds depending on the cooldown reduction), to promote staying in the fight after the disable has occurred
5) Possibly extend the range of the teleport to 900, but since the disable would actually be broken, might not be necessary

Thoughts?

Garbage is still garbage no matter how much you dress it up.

Uncontrollable traits that can backfire shouldn’t be here in the first place.

I agree, but like it or not, Arenanet are pushing it on us. Might as well try.

If they want to make this trait less awful, then I agree with many of your suggestions. If the disable is negated, then it shouldn’t trigger; the cooldown needs to be cut down significantly; and it needs to grant Vigor, Retaliation, Stability, or Regeneration instead of Swiftness. They want Thieves to use this trait for “sustained combat,” and Swiftness does jackall to help with that.

I think the range is okay as-is, but I think a lot of the problem could be solved by just having it teleport you backwards instead of in a random direction. Then it requires positional awareness instead of luck, and would sync up with builds that use teleports, Withdraw, and/or Roll for Initiative. It could also then be used as a positioning tool.

Imagi.4561:

If they want to make this trait less awful, then I agree with many of your suggestions. If the disable is negated, then it shouldn’t trigger; the cooldown needs to be cut down significantly; and it needs to grant Vigor, Retaliation, Stability, or Regeneration instead of Swiftness. They want Thieves to use this trait for “sustained combat,” and Swiftness does jackall to help with that.

I think the range is okay as-is, but I think a lot of the problem could be solved by just having it teleport you backwards instead of in a random direction. Then it requires positional awareness instead of luck, and would sync up with builds that use teleports, Withdraw, and/or Roll for Initiative. It could also then be used as a positioning tool.

^ Agree.

If the trait had a reduced cooldown and teleported us backwards, instead of a random direction, and gave us ret, regen or vigor(doubt it) I’d run it.

I actually like Hard to Catch. Sure, many people won’t use it ever, but for my sPvP P/P build that I use for fun, it’s pretty helpful. With the insane amount of CC’s we have in hot join, this trait is pretty helpful, considering I run with 1 stunbreaker only. Now that Anet might nerf sword, maybe Hard to Catch gets some love.

hard to catch should return the incoming disable to the enemy who attacked. then we would be hard to catch. mesmer got this trait…not even GM

Domey.9804:

hard to catch should return the incoming disable to the enemy who attacked. then we would be hard to catch. mesmer got this trait…not even GM

Mesmers vigor didn’t get a nerf either(5sec vigor on crit no icd) its also only and adept minor trait not to mention they still have phase retreat on 5-7sec cd but thief swords gets shafted.

yea, but we got insane BAKKSTAPZZ FOR OVER 20k and permastealth while attacking dont u kno?

The irony here is that sword #2 IS/SR actually does exactly what “Hard to Catch” does except in a user-controlled predictable manner.

A mobility, evasion based play style that defines the thief.

Anet seems intent on destroying that though. Quite sad.

Imagi.4561:

I think the range is okay as-is, but I think a lot of the problem could be solved by just having it teleport you backwards instead of in a random direction. Then it requires positional awareness instead of luck, and would sync up with builds that use teleports, Withdraw, and/or Roll for Initiative. It could also then be used as a positioning tool.

I haven’t tested it extensively, but I’m pretty sure it teleports you in the opposite direction of the oncoming disable – but doesn’t take in to account your character’s orientation, so you just have to hope the Warrior with Skull Crack doesn’t hit you while there’s a wall in front of him.

Even if it doesn’t, I agree. It needs to be positional relative to your character, not the disable itself.

I cross post this from the big thread in case someone reads only here:

Regarding thief changes:

I actually agree with almost every change you want to implement as I can clearly understand your reasons for doing so and believe that the thief community as a whole will be able to adapt. That being said there are some points to consider.

Flanking Strikes, Vigorous Recovery and Bountiful Theft
I agree with you latest post that these changes might be too harsh. Flanking Strikes would need to be buffed if it is moved to Master Tier in order to compete with Bountiful Theft. And on the matter of vigor duration, I also believe that 6s and 10-12s would be better.

Hard to catch
The elephant in the room… I understand that you want to boost thief survivability by moving this down and making it more accessible. I think you won’t accomplish that because Hard to Catch triggers on CC but does nothing to actually get rid of said CC. The added swiftness doesn’t really help if we get stunned for 3s for example. It also involves an unwanted RNG element because of the random teleport. This makes it very awkward to use. Think back to the changes of engineer elixiers, same story.

It was stated that condition removal should be available through the acrobatics line. I wholeheartedly agree and would change Hard to Catch to remove 1-2 condition(s) and set the ICD to 20s. This would then actually be useful as it would remove the impending conditions.

Now the teleport should actually remain. Here’s why: It is an awkward mechanic and disorienting for the thief himself but this lets it also act as a counterweight to the rest of the effect. A kind of penalty if you will that could be turned into an advantage by a skilled player.

As it is now the trait is only mildly interesting and involves too much risk with too little reward for the thief. Another thing worth considering when thinking of the phrase “hard to catch” is to add an evade ability to the skill for 2s after the teleport. This would give the thief some breathing room and improve survivability significantly.

Thank You
Last but not least: Thank you for taking time out of you no doubt very buisy schedules to inform us about all these changes and for letting us actively participate in guiding this update.

Dakan.9463:

Now the teleport should actually remain. Here’s why: It is an awkward mechanic and disorienting for the thief himself but this lets it also act as a counterweight to the rest of the effect. A kind of penalty if you will that could be turned into an advantage by a skilled player.

This is just silly.

If I’m chasing someone and they stun me with a ranged attack, and HtC teleports me directly backwards, no amount of Skill can be applied to fix that situation.

If I’m trying to prevent a decap and HtC teleports me off point, there is no amount of “skill” that will stop the point from ticking in my opponents direction.

You know what they call it when my character moves without my express input? Fear, a control condition. Beneficial effects shouldn’t behave like control effects.

Well, I put my general ideas/agreement with Auesis into Jon’s thread about the proposed Thief changes. I’m curious to see what he says, if he responds to my post.

Effects like these should essentially activate an F key option. Last Refuge also comes to mind. Basically when the event is triggered the F3 key would lite up giving the thief an extra SS. Last Refuge could be F2 so when the thief is below 25% health an extra Blinding Powder would show up.

evilapprentice.6379:

~snip

Well yes in these instances it acts as I said as a counterweight but I can also imagine certain situations where it would benefit the thief e.g. when trying to escape. Also please keep in mind that not everything revolves around sPvP.