Guild Wars 2

Hard to Catch: Shadowstep away and give swiftness (12s) when you are disabled (stun, daze, float, knock down, launch, knock back, sink, or fear). This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.

Why is this so useless you ask?

• Doesn’t break disables. This point is very important. I would much rather have this trait off and use a stunbreaker when the situation arises, than to be shadowstepped away for a mere headshot daze and have to use my gapclosers to get back on the target.

• If you are stability stomping someone and that guy uses any form of CC, you WILL be shadowstepped away and get your stomp interrupted. How clunkier and counterintuitive can this trait get?

• When a teamfight arises on keep, in Forest of Nifhel, stay the hell away from the border or you WILL be shadowstepped outside of the keep.
  EDIT: Tested a little bit further and if you stay on the Clocktower’s cap point 50% of the time you will get shadowstepped to the tunnel below and lose the cap point because of that.

TL;DR: Traits are suposed to bring in versability, especially a Grandmaster. But all this trait offers is limitations. Reducing the trait’s cooldown won’t make it better, it will just make it worse as it is.

I’ve added a sugestion box to the trait, hopefully we can get a Dev absorb some of the sugestions or atleast explain why is the trait worthy of a Grandmaster tier if it’s so unreliable/unpredictable in its’ current state.

Please keep the discussion constructive and assertive. No dueling bragging rights in here.

Sugested Changes so far:

• Next skill’s crowd control that would otherwise disable you is negated. (75 second cooldown) – Quickfoot Katana
• Change it to a very short range shadowstep + stealth – Grimwolf
• Attempting to dodge while immobilized/stunned/etc will teleport you back X range – bobross

On the good side; at least it isn’t forced upon you like Last Refuge. :< /sigh

this is a really good skill. n ot great but really really good. more so in pve/wvw as there is more room and you can get its total use. ok so when a zerg comes up usually the first thing they do to a thief is disable you bc running/escaping is kind of our forte so to speak. (spelling?) this skill has saved me so many times i cant count on my p/d bleed build. especially on those kitten ed 3 sec knockdowns or stuns etc. for every 10 times it saves me 1 time it will cause a port on a stomp but thats bc i was stunned anyway…either way it costs me 2 seconds of time max and is usually not a huge deal bc i invis for stomps and aoe blind etc. just not using it in the right builds/places. if u bring this in spvp you prolly dont have the right build and bc of its distance you cant capitalize on its value. also breaks your targets target so they have to reclick you. again …run this in wvw/pve you will love it espeically paired with stealth or Shad Step or inf strike or shadow returns or infil signet etc etc. really helps you get around. have fun.

They should change it to just a very short range shadowstep + stealth. Like Mesmer downed state short.

how about, when you attempt to dodge while immobilized/stunned/etc. You will instead tp back 1000…something to make it predictable and under your control.

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build. To all his own, but I’d imagine that people of course have tried it at one point or another and I don’t think most of them like temporarily losing control of their characters and being forced to randomly teleport away anytime they are cc’d. That’s exactly what I was thinking when I used it at least. Shadowstep does the same thing even better, which you are of course 100% in control of. I was also disappointed that the change only reduces the cd in the grandmaster trait. IMO, the whole trait is flawed unless you like unpredictable randomness. There are certainly better traits in acrobatics to choose from.

Zerbo.5381:

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build.

It happens, I’ve never been bugged by Last Refuge

^^

shortbow/PP?

I wouldn’t say it’s entirely useless, just useless if you’re going for a melee orientated build.

I ran a shortbow build a while back and I gotta say it makes kiting a lot easier and prevents you getting caught in stun burst combos quite reliably (mesmer daze/stun shatter burst would be a good example).

I can see why it would be a pain if you’re going for a build that wants to stick close to a target though.

Grimwolf.7163:

They should change it to just a very short range shadowstep + stealth. Like Mesmer downed state short.

wont work …still will be in the local AOE effects.

frans.8092:

Zerbo.5381:

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build.

It happens, I’ve never been bugged by Last Refuge

well…challenge me to a fight on any non thief player…ull see then (only reason non thief is bc itll be a draw otherwise if 2 good players.)_

Travlane.5948:

frans.8092:

Zerbo.5381:

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build.

It happens, I’ve never been bugged by Last Refuge

well…challenge me to a fight on any non thief player…ull see then (only reason non thief is bc itll be a draw otherwise if 2 good players.)_

Why? You like Hard-To-Catch, I have not been bugged by Last Refuge and other people dislike both. What’s there to prove with a challenge? You like them, or you don’t.

frans.8092:

Travlane.5948:

frans.8092:

Zerbo.5381:

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build.

It happens, I’ve never been bugged by Last Refuge

well…challenge me to a fight on any non thief player…ull see then (only reason non thief is bc itll be a draw otherwise if 2 good players.)_

Why? You like Hard-To-Catch, I have not been bugged by Last Refuge and other people dislike both. What’s there to prove with a challenge? You like them, or you don’t.

true but he was using it in the wrong way. d/d condi evade is amazing build. just not amazing in wvw. every build/skill has better areas of use. everyone who has used my build LOVES this trait. now thakittens on 30 secs it;ll save life even more

I don’t really see what it has to do with whether or not you like hard-to-catch, but I’d be happy to duel sometime on my thief- a draw won’t be an issue. Just w/ me. BTW, I don’t use d/d cond build normally.

Travlane.5948:

frans.8092:

Travlane.5948:

frans.8092:

Zerbo.5381:

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build.

It happens, I’ve never been bugged by Last Refuge

well…challenge me to a fight on any non thief player…ull see then (only reason non thief is bc itll be a draw otherwise if 2 good players.)_

Why? You like Hard-To-Catch, I have not been bugged by Last Refuge and other people dislike both. What’s there to prove with a challenge? You like them, or you don’t.

true but he was using it in the wrong way. d/d condi evade is amazing build. just not amazing in wvw. every build/skill has better areas of use. everyone who has used my build LOVES this trait. now thakittens on 30 secs it;ll save life even more

Hum who said anything about using d/d condi evade build?

Also, I am talking about SPvP in here. Trait that up and go do some hotjoins you will come into sense about this trait. This trait adds randomness and unpredicatiblity to your OWN build, how is that a good thing? One moment you were planning out your combos and your next move and then bam, shadowstepped into the middle of an AoE / buggy terrain/stairs.

Since ArenaNet is using the SPvP as a method of balancing professions I dont see why a Grandmaster trait should be useless there.

To the guys saying this trait is good when having a ranged weapon on, if you had the trait like I suggested instead your kiting potential would be even better.

traits are designed to be taken advantage of. if you want to use this trait, you might want to have a lot of shadowsteps, or a ranged weapon to switch to

Doggie.3184:

On the good side; at least it isn’t forced upon you like Last Refuge. :< /sigh

I am sick of seeing these. Ive had Last refuge since a 4 days after launch, and its never been a problem, why? Because Im not a bad thief who doesnt pay attention to stuff, I keep an eye on whats going on. Learn to pay attention, and it wont cause you any issues!

Kallist.5917:

Doggie.3184:

On the good side; at least it isn’t forced upon you like Last Refuge. :< /sigh

I am sick of seeing these. Ive had Last refuge since a 4 days after launch, and its never been a problem, why? Because Im not a bad thief who doesnt pay attention to stuff, I keep an eye on whats going on. Learn to pay attention, and it wont cause you any issues!

It’s not about a lack of paying attention. Here’s a hypothetical. Your fighting warrior ranger and your doing pretty well, getting a tad low and your about to back out into stealth. Maybe your at around 30 or 40% Suddenly the ranger hits you with some burst, just as your about to C&D into stealth to get breathing room. Ooops sorry Last Refuge procced mid C&D so now that hit that was supposed to stealth you has kicked you out. The unpredictability of players debunks your “Pay attention” argument.

This is even worse for ranged thief builds since I can have a shot mid-flight while I take heavy burst. Last refuge procs shot his and now I get to play fish out of water for 4 seconds because using shadow’s refuse or blinding powder will waste it .

Whether not YOU don’t have an issue with it, by it’s complaints list there is a problem with it and it has gotten me killed FAR more often then it has helped.

To add into this I usually survive if I get low and it doesn’t go off.

Kallist.5917:

Doggie.3184:

On the good side; at least it isn’t forced upon you like Last Refuge. :< /sigh

I am sick of seeing these. Ive had Last refuge since a 4 days after launch, and its never been a problem, why? Because Im not a bad thief who doesnt pay attention to stuff, I keep an eye on whats going on. Learn to pay attention, and it wont cause you any issues!

Please don’t defend the literal worst trait and skill related idea in the entire game.

Doggie.3184:

Kallist.5917:

Doggie.3184:

On the good side; at least it isn’t forced upon you like Last Refuge. :< /sigh

I am sick of seeing these. Ive had Last refuge since a 4 days after launch, and its never been a problem, why? Because Im not a bad thief who doesnt pay attention to stuff, I keep an eye on whats going on. Learn to pay attention, and it wont cause you any issues!

Please don’t defend the literal worst trait and skill related idea in the entire game.

Last refuge is a fine trait; you just need to learn to watch your health. It definitely has saved me more than hurt.

style.6173:

Last refuge is a fine trait; you just need to learn to watch your health. It definitely has saved me more than hurt.

Same for me, when i’m down to 30% I don’t waste time using c&d. I use my healing (or when in danger of interruption blind powder). If anyone hits you while stealthed you’ll proc last refuge, giving you an even longer stealth.

True I’ve been killed by the trait a few times (like when I was using any attacks besides auto attack while the trait procs, taking away precious time for my follow up stealth/backstab) but it has saved me more.

Also, last refuge has often saved enemy thieves from me rly.. I sometimes make the mistake to falsely assume I downed him, and start swinging around finding his body, when suddenly I get backstabbed, changed the tables a few times.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Travlane.5948:

frans.8092:

Travlane.5948:

frans.8092:

Zerbo.5381:

Travlane, you’re the first player I’ve ever heard of who not only likes this trait, but also regularly uses it in his build.

It happens, I’ve never been bugged by Last Refuge

well…challenge me to a fight on any non thief player…ull see then (only reason non thief is bc itll be a draw otherwise if 2 good players.)_

Why? You like Hard-To-Catch, I have not been bugged by Last Refuge and other people dislike both. What’s there to prove with a challenge? You like them, or you don’t.

true but he was using it in the wrong way. d/d condi evade is amazing build. just not amazing in wvw. every build/skill has better areas of use. everyone who has used my build LOVES this trait. now thakittens on 30 secs it;ll save life even more

Hum who said anything about using d/d condi evade build?

Also, I am talking about SPvP in here. Trait that up and go do some hotjoins you will come into sense about this trait. This trait adds randomness and unpredicatiblity to your OWN build, how is that a good thing? One moment you were planning out your combos and your next move and then bam, shadowstepped into the middle of an AoE / buggy terrain/stairs.

Since ArenaNet is using the SPvP as a method of balancing professions I dont see why a Grandmaster trait should be useless there.

To the guys saying this trait is good when having a ranged weapon on, if you had the trait like I suggested instead your kiting potential would be even better.

it was an ANALOGY lol. as hard to catch is useful in some places and not in others….hence why i said its like d/d evade condi build…its really really good in some places but not others. you have to pick and choose where to use it appropriately. i agree about spvp but at the same time you get telported and swifted. sounds like escape skill to me. if ur in a tight area i don think you will get the most of its benefit do u?

and in the same respect go use this in wvw when a zerg comes and first thing always happens is you get CCd. you will love this skill. saved my but plenty of times.