Guild Wars 2

UPDATED: 13AUG14: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4VwkZ06-FOVd0;9;49TT;02;009A35A;4IF0;3m9fgm9fgBBGgF6-6-N_scOVTWYXcYi3o_630S70HV8-NX8a;15;9;9;9;9;9;0VTk3b
~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~
~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~
~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~
~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~/~
Introduction:
Hello! Recently I have grown tired of running D/P and D/D, so I’ve been experimenting on various specs to try and find something else that can be competitive. Why not just D/P? Its predictable, and getting quite boring. I chose a power P/D build because of its utility and deception that it can bring to the table. A combination of weak conditions from P/D helps confuse and keep pressure on targets that rely on regen, and a good combination of Shadow Strike with CnD will make your opponent annoyingly retarget you over and over while you manipulate the fight. Also the potential damage from CnD/Sneak Attack/Shadow Strike is over looked in my opinion, and is often shoved off for users that prefer running condition builds.

The Build:
Timing is crucial and knowing what the other classes are capable of is a must. Knowing when to play defensive, and when you can start handing out the bear hugs is important. Since this isn’t a meta build, you can practically run anything you want, as long as you maintain your critical chance(without fury) above 60%. I have experimented with both 10/30/30, and 10/0/30/0/30. Both work great, but I prefer the damage gained from 10/30/30. Pick up pistol mastery, furious retaliation, with executioner and then customize the rest of the traits to your needs.

My current setup is P/V/CRIT% armor/weapons, with zerker trinkets. Crit % with food is 62%, precision stacks are added when not lazy. Traveler runes are not a must, but are preferred for an extra open slot as well as making roaming convenient.

Combo: CnD -> Steal -> Sneak attack -> Shadow Strike -> Play Smart

If you choose to reset with Shadow refuge, use sneak attack to your advantage for life leech. Normally people expect a thief to just evade when they pop a shadow refuge. This isn’t the case here… Confuse them and put them back on defensive mode by standing in shadow refuge for a couple of seconds(or whatever you need to regen), but make sure to AT LEAST pop sneak attack before shadow refuge finishes for life leech.

The combo itself generates an unexpected amount of damage. Assuming all crits were looking at ~3k + ~1.5k + ~2k + ~3k from a total combo. Keep in mind this is a constant damaging build.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4VwkZ06-FOVd0;9;49TT;02;040A35A;4LJV6-F04m9fgm9fgBBGgF6-6-N_schVlWYXv2147a630S70HV8-NX8a;15;9;9;9;9;9;0V8k3o

The Video:
It’s easy to post up a WvW roaming video where my targets will be unsuspecting, so I’m trying something different. The duels in this video are portrayed as bad cases, where the opponent KNOWS that I am about to attack, with some “Oh Kitten..” moments. I purposely get their attention and let them know I am around before my initial strikes, leading to lengthy and technical fights. These opponents are some of which I would consider harder to fight in normal cases.

http://youtu.be/PjmS_k70VkU

Great video. Appreciate the lack of drawn out opening and showings of kills where you were noticed. Might to try something similar for a change of pace, always did condition with a MH pistol. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you! I used to play P/D conditions for a while. It’s extremely effective however sometimes it takes a while to build up that damage pressure from stacking your conditions. This is a pretty fun alternative if you want to get in and out much quicker. The above videos are where i was having difficulty gaining control of the fight. In a typical WvW scenario where the target doesn’t see me coming, this builds ability to lay down a good amount of damage guarantees a quick kill.

Oppositely, if I’m having trouble I have a huge number of tools to gain distance and attempt to regain control of whichever situation I’m in.

Nice. I have pretty much the same gear setup and have been wanting to try something different other than the DD build I’ve been running. Cool to see a PD that’s not all condition dumping.

It’s too bad this build won’t even put a dent in a bunk warrior or ranger.

I’ll try and put together a normal WvW video for the next shot

@Form, ranger’s in general are not a problem(there is also a clip in the video towards the end of one). And Warriors just take extra time, however they certainty couldn’t take down someone properly playing this build.

If you would, I’d like to see a link to the build. I messed around with it in a build calculator and didn’t get to 60% crit. I want to see what I’m missing.

I geared up a P/D condition thief a long time ago (before dire gear), but don’t play the character much anymore. The promise of something new is intriguing, although buying another set of traveler’s runes is not…

p/d power is such an interesting spec cause shadow strike hits HARD and shuts down melee even harder lol

@matthen, absolutely… http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4VwkZ06-FOVd0;9;49TT;02;040A35A;4LJV6-F04m9fgm9fgBBGgF6-6-N_schVlWYXv2147a630S70HV8-NX8a;15;9;9;9;9;9;0V8k3o

@ens, It is! Generally it’s nice to CnD to deal with conditions, because the CnD damage + sneak attack is greater. However Shadow Strike is extremely convenient because it hits hard and helps us keep distance.

1) try 10/10/30/0/20
where critical strikes 10 is pistol mastery and trickery 20 is ricochet.
2) then stealth
3) discharge pistol 1 into an unsuspecting group….
4) profit
:)

I tried an evasion power/crit~ build with P/D before when I realized how much crit DMG Shadow Strike does. Extremely fun and cool looking but deep down the damage was just too low overall to be worth it. I didn’t try it with Shadow Arts because I didn’t think the Sneak Attack would do much DMG in zerker (plus I was looking for another escape into non/low stealth dependent builds) but I guess it’s decent. I gave it another try after seeing your video and it was pretty fun for a bit but ended up switching back to main hand dagger in the end cuz I felt like I was just adding unnecessary time to fights. After using it again it makes me wish Pistol was like a reverse longbow and did more crit dmg at close range. I’ll probably try it a bit more later when I’m bored tho. :s

ohai harls! fancy meeting u here

Hai Noir! You so fancy… ;D

@Doggie, I see your point and I’ll offer you a counter. The reason power p/d has potential awesome-ness is the defensive attributes and overall survivability. If you go main hand dagger, roaming has never been easier against players that don’t know how to handle thieves. There is no other build that kills faster than a dagger main hand against newbies. However the moment you take your dagger versus a veteran, or even another dagger thief, this is where you’ll see the difference. Try getting two talented d/p thieves to duel, and see how long they draw out their fight. I personally have videos of 3-5 minute fights as d/p, versus other d/p thieves that know what they are doing. As p/d versus any other thief, the worst thing for them is creating distance while dealing solid damage.

The problem here is dagger main hand is completely offensive, and predictable. Anyone that plays a thief knows the rotation, and knows what to expect. This is why players like yishi thrive off CnD’ing off of cloaked thieves and manipulating them further.

TL;DR Sacrifice a little burst damage for being able to go defensive, and you’re golden against anything that tries to chase you.

I’m kind of upset everyone feels this is innovative or new.

Mordecai.6318:

I’m kind of upset everyone feels this is innovative or new.

Every Thief craves something new and tries so hard to find it through our extremely limited options so you can’t really expect too much.

Mordecai.6318:

I’m kind of upset everyone feels this is innovative or new.

Honestly, I’ve been lurking thief forums for a long time and I haven’t seen a good case for a power P/D build that I can think of. If someone has posted about it, they certainly didn’t present it as well as in this post.

@ OP: Great vid. I was a bit skeptical, but this looks like a solid variation for WvW roaming. Too bad you lose the poison that a dagger mainhand has since that can play such a big role against a lot of classes or else this could be decent in sPvP as well.

Agreed, it might be used a lot but on the forums I have not seen it, or seen it with this much detail and video backing.

Thanks for the positive feedback! I’m going to put more together in the following weeks. Something a bit longer…

Mordecai.6318:

I’m kind of upset everyone feels this is innovative or new.

You’re just mad that no one saw your P/D build on IntotheMists that’s been sitting there for a long time :P

Lamuness.3570:

Mordecai.6318:

I’m kind of upset everyone feels this is innovative or new.

You’re just mad that no one saw your P/D build on IntotheMists that’s been sitting there for a long time :P

Apparently you did?

Doggie.3184:

Every Thief craves something new and tries so hard to find it through our extremely limited options so you can’t really expect too much.

That’s why we Steal.

WyldKat.4712:

Doggie.3184:

Every Thief craves something new and tries so hard to find it through our extremely limited options so you can’t really expect too much.

That’s why we Steal.

Too bad we can’t steal entire weapon sets. Then we could be copycat ninjas.

I remember I use to run power p/d a long time ago and it was very frowned upon, but it still remains to be one of my most favorite builds to play out of all the different professions and builds

OP would a mix of rampagers/rabid/dire not work better? Dropping the crit damage but picking up significant condi damage? Was playing around with it in the editor and 2-3k sneak attacks should still be doable and slapping on those bleeds and torment with 1500ish condi damage seems just mean lol. Just curious is all (: I have been running this in full zerk/valk trinkets and it’s so fun lol

@Jhughes, Absolutely! You really could mix up the build however you want with the stats, and go half power/condition. While half power/condition would work out fine with p/d, it may not be as competitive against knowledgeable players from some of the testing duels that I ran before settling on the build in the OP.

When I was originally throwing around stat points and trying to find a build to sit on, I chose power/crit% because I wanted damage that was consistent and somewhat comparable to a backstab, without having to backstab. Because that’s what makes thieves predictable right, setting up for a backstab… Anyways from the armor sets that I tried out, power/crit% is fantastic for killing FAST. I’d have to whip out my trusty calculator, but if one were to go hybrid with p/d, it may be less damage per second opposed to going full conditions, or full power.

Great Video! I’ve been running something similar (I LOVE Withdraw! Awesomely sweet CD, and an Evade. Can’t beat that!), except I’ve dumped a lot of points in Trickery (Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft). I love applying Poison on Steal, Swapping from Shortbow to P/D, triggering the Sigil of Geomancy, CnD, Skale Venom, then the Stealth Unload with Skill 1. Too hot? Shadow Strike Away and drop Caltrops. Still too hot? Withdraw and bring out your Thieves Guild.

I tried the D/D and D/P combo, and to be honest I’m not very good with Stealth Mechanics. Thus, I opted for Conditions, and more of a group Support Role.

Good to see other folks using the P/D setup. It’s really fun!

I’d appreciate it if you actually did those calculations.. It seems kind of interesting.
You have more room for some defensive stats, you still have the ability to have high crit chance, the only thing is instead of doing more than double damage crits you will be doing 50% damage crits. Non crit hits will still be the same because of more or less equal power numbers. Torment access seems very good..

your char looks smexy

^Shpanks

I agree that the build has more room for defensive stats, but that’s not entirely the goal. Like other burst builds, I was aiming at doing as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time. While the posted video does not demonstrate the power(shows rather difficult situations instead of me opening up on someone not expecting it), it shows the possible burst and survivability. Hence going even half way for conditions will change the play style and aggressiveness of this build. The conditions that exist from going power p/d are already enough to keep a good amount of pressure on the target. Increasing them a little more will only make a fraction of a difference(per second), opposed to being able to invest more powerful hits that happen instantly.

The defense/survivability in this build surround being able to dodge, withdraw, and teleport away at the common tell-tale signs of danger. This is a build that is far from passive, and requires a lot of attention to detail. The damage is there but surviving will, as usual, depend on the skill and ability of foresight within the player.

Thanks for the positive posts!!