Guild Wars 2

Curious if anyone has made P/P work in WvW/SPvP since June 23rd. There were posts the day after about ricochet being gone and it being nerfed to the ground, but they’ve since fizzled out or been closed due to nasty outbursts and outrage towards the devs with no true outcome. So I’d like to humbly re-open the discussion, and without pointing fingers at who changed what, let’s see if it’s at all possible to “adapt” and make it work in some form. I still see a couple thieves rocking it and probably having a blast. If you’re one of them, I need build ideas, I’m tired of D/P and miss my gunslinger, and the game should be played for fun, despite the meta right?….right?

Condi or Power?
What other weapon set should I combine with it?
Is P/P truly nerfed beyond recognition?
Can it work without the 10% damage and be used for single target burst?
Did you think this thread was about a burning sensation when you pee, or being pee shy?(figured I’d get the joke out of the way now)

Begin the newly opened discussion!

Would love to get some feedback on this as well, so commenting so I can find this again later on.

In the beta now I did try to play around with daredevil P/P and Short bow. But my degree of success was varied… And some can probably be attributed to new players in spvp and some yet again can be to people trying out new stuff and being equally semi successful…

So yeah really want to have some insight into an updated p/p build….

I still haven’t messed with p/p after ricochet was removed. Prob not ever going back to it to be honest. There would have to be some massive improvements to the build before I consider it

I’m curious about a P/P D/P build, just so sad to believe the loss of one trait can be the bane of an entire fun concept, and 1 of our 4 weapon sets.. I’m going to at least mess around with some builds(I’m sure I’m not the first trying to make it work), but I’m only an average build creator, anyone with a build they’ve tried with some degree of success, please don’t hesitate to post it up!

Mord.9237:

I’m curious about a P/P D/P build, just so sad to believe the loss of one trait can be the bane of an entire fun concept, and 1 of our 4 weapon sets..

That’s because the only thing P/P ever had going for it is that it was a fun concept. P/P wasn’t good with Ricochet, it was merely livable. P/P has stupidly low damage and is a massive initiative hog. But it was the longest-range option that the thief had, and it had some incidental splash AOE that helped make it a good “range tag” kit like Shortbow.

Now it just has stupidly low damage and is a massive initiative hog; It’s not that the removal of Ricochet killed a good weapon set, it’s that the removal of Ricochet made what was already thief’s worst weapon set even worse, because Dual Pistols weren’t ‘pure’ unless there was absolutely zero reason to ever use them. Anet logic.

Here’s some builds I made just now. They’re in pvp format to show the concept. In wvw or pve you’d just go for similar numbers while better balancing for defense or whatever.

Regen Unload
Power Unload
Condi venom p/p
Hybrid p/p traps

Well with D/D in a sub-par position as well, I guess it’s condi P/D or the “meta”(which in this case means the only playable option) is D/P. Is there a such thing as a kiting/evasion based Shortbow build?

P/p is great fun, and can only be used if based on a single target. I love messing around by adding Haste, venoms, along with unload on a condi build with stealing do already condi damage. I also switch to P/D to stealth with stealth and dagger, and switching back to do the single unload with revealing adding more power.

Yes its great fun but very very hard to enjoy when it’s not the best thief weapons.

This title is priceless.

ragnarokda.1805:

This title is priceless.

I was gonna say… lol

No, my P/P is wimpy and unsatisfying naow. Used to unload it into zergs all the time making so many people go down.

I used to have so much fun playing with my P/P, but it just feels limp now.

I have been playing with double pistols quite a lot since the patch mostly in roaming and duels, and imo its more viable now than before (against single target ofc). Reasons: access to every needed trait (panic strike+exe/improv, stealth on steal+stealth regen, and trickery).

The two builds i was using with success:
DA SA TR – P/P+D/P

Basicly a d/p meta build used with p/p which works surprisingly well. Improv can be taken over exe, it is handy against mesmers, dp thieves, guards etc. Also in some cases bountiful theft is better but trickster is still bugged and puts haste on a 36s cd (instead of 48s), also i like having enough condi cleanse and faster withdraw. Vamp runes can be used for more lifesteal, but i always preferred pack. I found the survivability in roaming similar to d/p roaming builds, because you have blinding powder while those usually use infiltraitors signet, and if you are in trouble, you can always switch to d/p for more stealth.

DA CS TR – P/P+D/P
This one has huge burst and can make your enemy kitten his pants if he is zerky, as an unload in haste will trigger panic strike so they cant dodge, then another unload will mostly likely down him if he is slow and doesnt use any stunbreaks, invulns etc. Of course this burst with a similarly glassy build can be done withbackstabs too, but those who are reading this thread obviously want something more cool and unique. While this build doesn’t have the survivability and sustain which the SA build does, it is certainly more fun because of the huge dmg from unload.

I don’t really have footage of it unfortunately, (if people ask for it i can try), i just wanted to say, don’t give up on p/p, it’s better than it was.
Of course i tested it with daredevil and worked really well, both with dash and leap dodge, so that’s another reason for hope.

Fair warning: I’m terrible. I’ve used a variant of this build for quite a while. It was so much better (or at least felt better) with Ricochet and Opportunist (the get init on crit one).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZQQNAqaFl8MhenghTg+JOgJKfaEHtx+C+gBVnABQGA-T1CBABlfIAiZ/htUaYoeAtUmhmSwRV/RiHAAAnAAV0EsxRAIAACwOrzA4oH9oH9oHtduzhuzhO0SBUuwI-w

The blank utility varies often. In WvW, keeping up with everyone if there aren’t tons of swiftness generator means SoS. I often have Blinding Powder for getaways. Sometimes Radiation Field (Asura). Occasionally poison. When I’m with a small group or running around alone to get somewhere, I switch to HiS, SR, BP, and SoS. The bow is mostly a “save me and run away” tool.

I’m sure someone will explain how exactly it’s terrible, but it seems to work ok, considering its P/P. It is surprisingly durable. I generally run with groups/zergs. No dueling (I’m a button masher). I think of myself as the machine gunner.

With the Fury uptime, you’re guaranteed to get bonus damage and you’ll get your on crit hits at max rate. I could go with Invigorating Precision for more health. I’m tempted to trade Ankle Shots for Sundering Strikes, but I’m addicted to the range bonus.

P/P is useless without Ricochet. I will start playing thief again if they bring back Ricochet.

I typically always use p/p , here are a few vids http://plays.tv/video/55b30a736a3be85348
http://plays.tv/video/55b30af37d0459ec62 http://plays.tv/video/55b6f8595a095c5cd4

My PP works just fine.

I am still annoyed that they removed this trait without any discussions with the thief community.

P/P hopefully gets some love soon.

They should at least tell us if they are working on it or not going to do any changes for P/P.

I found this video OP. I hope it helps

uglydan.1638:

My PP works just fine.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who got that xD

P/P worked in the past for a bit: it was mediocre in PvE and decent in WvW zergs, both cases because of Ricochet.

I doubt it will Ever work/be used again.

Some P/P duels against strong builds like s/f ele and mediguard, to show the weapon set isn’t dead, and can be actually viable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCW__fkoazg&feature=youtu.be

you need to play with P/P a fair bit first, then after that it’ll be hard enough for you to unload in someone’s face.

I don’t play a lot of thief. However with the lack of DW pistol mesmer I figured I’d try my luck with some gunslinger thief since it’s one of those concepts that I really wanna pull of somehow.

I’ve been messing around sPvP with this build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVlsMhenY5Tw7Jw/EH0EFvGShZo3XBRgqDgJMCA-TZBFwACOFAI3fYxRAoaZAAPAAA

It’s super squishy however if you play your survival cards right with dodges/blind/stealth it is outright deadly because of the massive burst damage. I’ve tried to max out on stealth since we don’t have any viable on demand stealth ability with the p/p.

If I manage to stay in the background while my teammate take all the hits we easily win the fight. I’ve played a few games with this build and I’ve seen success. Of course some people will see through you and totally crush you. But in the right setting this build can be really good. You could go Trickery line and swap the shortbow for another p/p for the extra initiative on swap and extra 3 base initiative for more burst. I just feel like the sb is a really good weapon for escaping and shadowstepping on ledges. I will try the trickery line later and see how it works out though.

I really just wish they lowered the cost on some of the pistol skills since I feel like I rarely use anything other than p/p 3 and pistol 5. They should lower the initiative cost on pistol 5. When I do need to use p5 I am usually low on initiave and 6 initiatve is half the baseline bar, so I feel like it’s way too much for such a skill. p/p 3 could also use some kind of buff since unless you go full damage build it doesn’t dish out nearly enough damage to be viable. Overall I just feel like the set is missing something, like a blast finisher would be nice for some kind of weapon stealth combo or something??

My PP works just fine.

KngOfTheWorldMB.2634:

My PP works just fine.

you get plenty of kills do you?

KngOfTheWorldMB.2634:

My PP works just fine.

So how do we get our pp to work better?

Lots of Cranberry juice.

Ryou.2398:

KngOfTheWorldMB.2634:

My PP works just fine.

So how do we get our pp to work better?

Magic “candy”…

Take it 45 minutes before battle.

Thanks everyone for the words of inspiration and build/vid posts. Having recently unlocked the Chaos Gun skin, I think it’s time to give it a shot, regardless of the meta. I rather like the P/P, D/P build, for escapability while still pumping out some damage, though having D/P at all serves as a reminder that I could have leet backstab crit and more blinds :/ why can’t P/P have SOMETHING!

Double heaters still works, just not against a zerg. Which you shouldn’t be fighting unless you’re in one yourself. They will improve with Daredevil just to what extent, nobody knows.

BTW, you shouldn’t play anything because its ‘meta’. Play it because you enjoy it.

End. Of. Discussion.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

BTW, you shouldn’t play anything because its ‘meta’. Play it because you enjoy it.

End. Of. Discussion.

Well, that depends…

If you’re okay with some groups not taking you because you’re running either a sub-par build or a complete kitten build, then yeah. But I’m guessing you wouldn’t want to hang with those kinds of people either? Because they’re not accepting your idea of fun (well, actually, they probably don’t want to carry you and pull your weight in their spare time or when they themselves want to progress/improve)?

Don’t get me wrong, do what you want, have fun… Just be mindful when you group with people, that theres a certain weight they expect you to carry… Meta is there to get everyone performing at their best, or at least having the ability to and then it’s up to the skill of the player.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

BTW, you shouldn’t play anything because its ‘meta’. Play it because you enjoy it.

End. Of. Discussion.

If you ‘enjoy’ getting steamrolled in PvP then by all means, run P/P.

I really wish they would bring back Ricochet bundled with a pistol trait

seriously that skill should of never left p/p can still do some great damage but ricochet being going its just not worth running it was my favorite thief spec to play it worked well in PvE and it was very fun in sPvP

P/p outside pve is pretty hard to make functional. My suggestion to you Mord, is to wait for HoT and run daredevil as one of your traitlines. The leap dodge (and to a less degree the condition dodge) make P/p in pvp much much much more viable, as you have a sufficient stealth source (or much better condition/cripple spread in the case of lotus training). Outside of that, I would say you are going to have a hard time making a build fluid enough to function in pvp without feeling like you are wasting your time not running a different weapon set.