I am playing a s/d sb build in spvp. 2/0/0/6/6, strength rune and zerker. I have especially trouble with engineers, playing a condi bunker spec. Are there some advises out there what i can do against them? Most classes ar beatable, but not the engineers. I run pain response in the acrobatic line, but their condis are insane O.o
Even with the super safe sd, 20066, Condi Engis are still a PITA to be dealt with. If possible, avoid them. The condi pressure they can put on you is insane, and without a full condi cleanse (Lyssa) you have close to no way to nuke them easily.
Just try to keep your distance and kite with your SB. Also, be sure to cleanse the poison before using your heal (assuming you’re using Withdraw).
In general, however, avoid them at all cost. Don’t go 1v1 them on point, and if it is a teamfight, condi engis will melt and won’t do anything troublesome.
If you have s/d out shadow step in do s small burst snd step out and repeat the step will cleanse condi and same with shadow step utility. Those will save you alot. If its a turret engi which are a pain, do the same thing or keep sb out and cluster bomb the turrets from ranged
Okay….but the next problem is: the healing turret is extremely good too. I got the feeling, if i don’t do much damage, i am doing nothing -.- but thx for your replies. Sounds good what you said mystogan. I am going to try and try and try. And maybe……some day…….i will kill one by myself in a 1v1
Engineers are indeed pretty tough encounter for a thief. However with 20066 sd you actually have quite good chances to kill them. First off all you should try to start the fight behind an object or a wall or something you can always return to. Then you engage the engie with s#2 normally. First off all you should always try to stay out of their aoe. So if they use bombs just port back, wait for them to run out and engage again. Also you should port back from time to time, cause you will eat one or two condies for sure, so you can remove it with s#2. You can also try to interrupt their offensive with f1, so you have more time where they cant do anything or even interrupt their healskill with it, if you have a really good timing. Also you could try to do venom + sd#3 second skill combo to hit them while they are blocking, if they use toolkit or shield #5, but i guess that is quite tricky.
Also. If you go into stealth with CnD(what i personally wouldnt do against engies but depends) or with sa a pretty good combo is normally to immob them with sbow#1 and then use the stolen f1 ability. Also you could continue with s#2 to stacks even more immob. But be sure to use choking gas(sbow #4) first to poison them, if they might have their condi immunity trait ready.
Honestly i was playing today and my two weaknesses are currently engis and mm necros so ive been all over the other forums to formulat answers i also run s/d and is mixed with condi removal good dmg good mitigation and yet i have the hardest time because mainly the turret a.i i got sniped for 3k smg once from a rocket turret at 1000 range about lol. So yea i found using infiltators coupled with shadow step works okay and if you are good enough you can down him if theres more then 1 person with the engi gg lol
If you sre fighting a bomber you can do teo thjngs. If your confident eith evades you can evade the big combos, if not just swap to sb mash 3 a few times and law down ranged pressue until you force him out of bombs and then switch back to sword to jump in
Even my Hambow alt with all the abundant condition removal melts like hot butter in the sun to this type of condi-spam. It’s insane.
It’s a non-stop barrage of all types of conditions, including blinds and Confusion. There’s nothing to specifically dodge either since all of their attacks can apply these condis.
Imo the amount and degree of conditions Engineers can constantly spam is broken. Not just unbalanced….fundamentally broken.
Even my Hambow alt with all the abundant condition removal melts like hot butter in the sun to this type of condi-spam. It’s insane.
It’s a non-stop barrage of all types of conditions, including blinds and Confusion. There’s nothing to specifically dodge either since all of their attacks can apply these condis.
Imo the amount and degree of conditions Engineers can constantly spam is broken. Not just unbalanced….fundamentally broken.
Coming from a war pov yes coming from a thief ranger ele no. They have cery high spam making it very easy to llay just like PU mes. Its very forgiving and can hard to fight
Honestly condi engis are a very hard fight for thieves, especially if one isn’t taking SA. However, there are a couple of key things that can make the fight easier.
1. Shortbow is your friend. Especially in spvp, the engi wants you to fight on point where they have the advantage and can just spam their skills on you. Use the shortbow’s poison field and cluster bombs to put good pressure and when you see an opportunity move in with s/d.
2. S/d 20066 has a ton of dodges. When you’re engaged in close and in a small area your spec can just keep spamming dodges to avoid the majority of the engi’s damage.
3. Use sword 2 to your advantage to get some distance and reset when need be.
With a s/d 20066 spec, engis are one of the tougher fights, but easily winnable as long as you aren’t stupid and provided you play to your strengths not theirs.
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Engies are a tough match up , esp for the build you run , if you invested at least 10 in shadow arts for shadow’s embrace then you should be able to beat them.
Confusion is a condition you just can’t remove reliably as a 20066. That, along with the crazy burst of EVERY condi is just too much for you to remove. You can use your Shadow Step to clear some of them, once every 50 secs.. then agility signet, for one. Sword 2 is very inefficient for condi removal and more of a nice to have.
Are you using Hide in Shadow? As a 6 acro I’d guess you’re using withdraw. HiS is great condi clear heal, especially paired with shadows embrace from SA traits. I know its painful to give up withdraw, esp since the bottom end of your build probably relies on it somewhat.
Over-all, the condi engi & necro are a hard counter for 6 acro builds with no SA.
Personally I don’t think 20066 is the best build out there, in general; I think it seriously lacks in damage. With that low damage output you’ll always have problems vs some classes.
Give a try to ‘my’ build 06044; damage, overall, should be something like +50%. For sure you are losing something, it’s up to you to decide if it worths it.
I don’t feel i am lacking in damage. But i will give it a try. Even if i think slight of hand is the best trait in the build and i will miss poison on steal :/
I don’t feel i am lacking in damage. But i will give it a try. Even if i think slight of hand is the best trait in the build and i will miss poison on steal :/
honestly its about modifiers when it comes to dmg. many of our trait lines have mods. you can easily trade off from each tree. you could switch to both DA or CRIT and get mods. I recently took out trickery to see how effective it was and honestly its the best thing I’ve ever done. the boon rip on lac strike is good enough for me because i look specific boons before i rip. the only real thing i lost was fury/swift on steal i don’t count might because i still get might. and also daze on steal. and if you are missing poison you need to switch to SB more esp for warriors. when i see a war i switch then blast at least 2 poison fields before i go back in to s/d. I use 60%-40% S/d-SB
No i wont give up withdraw, cause it saves me more often than HiS would helpe me^^
Whith which combo can i hit blocking engis? Could you explain it? Thx
Thieves only unblock able move is lac strike. so if you see an engi blocking, use the first roll at ranged so youc can use lac strike , and then pre cast lac strike and use a shadow step, either steal or sig and if your confident you can hit with shadow step then go ahead
Try to evade their grenades, ya I know it is hard but it is still possible.
For this you will need to practise your timing in evades, don’t just throw them like every other thief try to get a protocol, try to timing your evades with your 3 attack so you can actually evade then evade/attack again and finally attack, repeat.
Remember FS is an attack which attacks and evades at the same time
its not necessarily kiting with SB, because they are not going to move from the pt if they are good. its just pressure along with possibly killing turrets and using the #3 for evades. watch the rocket turret.-_- not to be nit picky but kiting is more of the enemy not getting to you while you deal damage. and if your not running 10 in SA for condi cleanse needa use the shadow step and infiltrator for that. also there is a tell for their supply drop. don’t wanna get stunned of that.
easiest way to avoid grenades is stay ranged with SB. you want to go in with S/D when they have their weapons out like rifle or pistol. many of the kits do well close ranged.
Also if you are playing against a power engi that is not using turrets they are most likely using rocket boots in which case if you get near 2/3-1/4 hp they will rocket boot combo you. this is where they jump right at you, knock back with rifle and rocket in to you again dealing massive damage.
If i go 6 points into CS, what will i get?
Something around 14% critchance 20% critdmg and a multipler 20% dmg while oponent is under 50% and 10% dmg while over 6 ini.
What do i loose?
A needed condiremove. 10% boonduration. 10% damage while endurance is not full. 30% steal recharge. Daze on steal. 1% damage per ini. Heal, damage and poison ons steal.
As you can see: you have nearly the same multiplers. You only make more use out of your traitpoints: critchance and critdmg is more usfull than condidmg. But you are giving so much else up….
>>Over-all, the condi engi & necro are a hard counter for 6 acro builds with no SA.
This can be mitigated to an extent with a higher crit chance and then using generosity and or purity sigils.
Use them both and you can cleanse another 2 in ten seconds. It still not as effective as the SA line and shadows embrace but those not wanting to go that route can consider it.
If i go 6 points into CS, what will i get?
Something around 14% critchance 20% critdmg and a multipler 20% dmg while oponent is under 50% and 10% dmg while over 6 ini.
What do i loose?
A needed condiremove. 10% boonduration. 10% damage while endurance is not full. 30% steal recharge. Daze on steal. 1% damage per ini. Heal, damage and poison ons steal.
As you can see: you have nearly the same multiplers. You only make more use out of your traitpoints: critchance and critdmg is more usfull than condidmg. But you are giving so much else up….
Honestly your not giving up much i only put 3 in acro for dodges. Im i think yul should test out sacrificng trickery and acro. Pain response seems nice. Icd 30 secs…… Not to good imo yea it will remove some condis but its every 30 secs. In gw2 the battles are fast pace and 30 is a good amt of time. Ill share my build when i get home. I use to run 0/6/0/5/3. Reason being i grabbed many mods and the extra int in trick. I soon took out trick and some acro and realized that those pts were not doing much compared to the new build. If you rely alot on ss and infiltrators you can get alot of condi remove from that. Thats what i use. Also what utilities do u use
Over-all, the condi engi & necro are a hard counter for 6 acro builds with no SA.
Condi Necros do not hardcounter thieves. They have nowhere the same amount of defense+offense as Engis.
If they have a full DS + Plague it will be really hard of course, but if they have 20-30% DS and no Elite (or just the Golem) it is doable. You have 2(3) stunbreakers, one will be used to break the “nightmare runes” fear, the other one should be used for one Doom. Avoid the Reaper Mark and interrupt their heal with your steal. Lock them down with the stolen Fear + Basi venom and you will be able to kill them.
Completely agree what hihey said. I never had problems with necros who should be better in conitions by definition, but aren’t.
@ mystogan: in a week i am going to have much time, i will give 2/6/0/3/3 a try. Mayby 5/6/0/0/5
If you look the sigils go very well with the runes and the DA 5 minor. I rely on agility sig and shadow step and infiltrators for condi cleanse. it is more then enough for me yo just need to keep a very close eye on your condis. and btw u can’t go 5/6/0/0/5 not enough traits =]
Edit: this is not the exact armor i use. i have around 16k hp and around 2k att
