Hello fellow thieves. I feel one of the biggest crutches for any thief build I use is the lack of consistent healing. The only ways to achieve something moderately consistent would be signet of malice (terrible), Acrobatics X for a very small amount of healing with initiative use, or heal while stealth (Shadow Arts XI) which forces thieves to use a stealth oriented build (another crutch for thieves in my opinion) for a small amount of healing, while also being forced to refrain from doing damage to continue healing.
I currently use a S/D boonstealer/damage build. 0/30/0/15/25 with Shadowstep, RFI, Refuge, and Withdrawal for the heal. As this is not a build focused on stealthing much, and I feel I would lose too much damage from putting 5 in Acrobatics for mediocre healing on initiative use, my only 2 sources of healing are the 6 skill (about 1/5 of my HP every 15 seconds) and Refuge, which I also believe to be about 1/5 my health if I remain inside it.
My problem is I do not have any access to regaining health without doing a “burst” heal which can leave me vulnerable. Suggestions anyone?
I honestly don’t know how you play this build dude. There is SO much condition damage/aoe/aoe damage around in WvW without the condition removal in stealth and extended stealth i’d fall over.
I regard a thieves healing is actually more about just not getting hit/staying in stealth as much as you can, only coming out for two reasons: 1) to hit someone 2) To find a way to go back into stealth.
Mug heals me for ~2k every 20 seconds and withdraw for ~4.3k every 15.
Depending on how frequent I use them this sets me up at ~340-390 hp/s + stolen regen, my next goal is to utilize Infiltrators Strike and Dodges well to not be where the damage takes place in the first place. Frequent and swift usage of IS will reduce the overall condition dmg you’ll take and good positioning and dodging will do the rest.
Shadow Step and Runes of Lyssa will provide you with a burst cleanse.
The problem with trickery builds however is that they at some point, especially when under the effect of chill will run low on initiative, if you are good at managing initiative and know how to keep the initiative expense:income balanced during the fight, this will happen less frequent.
Also I find this build more rewarding and more punishing at the same time than any other thief build. Next patch it might be unplayable though since it relies heavily on infiltrators strike and the vigor from bountiful theft.
I honestly don’t know how you play this build dude. There is SO much condition damage/aoe/aoe damage around in WvW without the condition removal in stealth and extended stealth i’d fall over.
I regard a thieves healing is actually more about just not getting hit/staying in stealth as much as you can, only coming out for two reasons: 1) to hit someone 2) To find a way to go back into stealth.
Spam sword 2, 1 condition removal each time, plus movement to get out of the damage. Of course this will change with the Dec 10 patch, so enjoy it while you can.
My problem is I do not have any access to regaining health without doing a “burst” heal which can leave me vulnerable. Suggestions anyone?
The problem I see in your build is the lack of Weakness, Poison, and Vulnerability applications. For your build, Weakness, Poison, and Vulnerability are your friends.
The problem with healing skills is that it puts you into defensive mode and that’s the window your opponent is waiting for to counter-attack. But if you stay in the offense, you will force them into defensive mode — meaning, they will be doing less damage to you because they are too busy healing themselves or getting rid of the condition.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
The problem I see in your build is the lack of Weakness, Poison, and Vulnerability applications. For your build, Weakness, Poison, and Vulnerability are your friends.
The problem with healing skills is that it puts you into defensive mode and that’s the window your opponent is waiting for to counter-attack. But if you stay in the offense, you will force them into defensive mode — meaning, they will be doing less damage to you because they are too busy healing themselves or getting rid of the condition.
I can give nearly permanent weakness through the sword auto attack, if I use it for the full attack chain. Poison won’t help me much by putting pressure on them, as I have no condition damage and poison is already weak condition damage. I don’t think condition pressure is going to stop people from trying to attack me once they realize I cannot heal at all. My only damage mitigation is evasion, which works well, but once my health pool gets low it tends to stay there for the remainder of the fight.
The problem I see in your build is the lack of Weakness, Poison, and Vulnerability applications. For your build, Weakness, Poison, and Vulnerability are your friends.
The problem with healing skills is that it puts you into defensive mode and that’s the window your opponent is waiting for to counter-attack. But if you stay in the offense, you will force them into defensive mode — meaning, they will be doing less damage to you because they are too busy healing themselves or getting rid of the condition.
I can give nearly permanent weakness through the sword auto attack, if I use it for the full attack chain. Poison won’t help me much by putting pressure on them, as I have no condition damage and poison is already weak condition damage. I don’t think condition pressure is going to stop people from trying to attack me once they realize I cannot heal at all. My only damage mitigation is evasion, which works well, but once my health pool gets low it tends to stay there for the remainder of the fight.
You’re forgetting that Poison also reduce their healing efficiency.
I have nothing else to tell you. If you choose to play defensive, then might as well grab a Cleric or a Magi set to boost your healing then go 30pts into Shadow Arts and 30pts into Crit Strike (Hidden Killer) and play hit-and-run (stealth + backstab).
Other than that, you really need to use your skills effectively — for example — traiting Mug (DA 10) will make you poison + damage + heal on steal; and when used on players trying to heal, you effectively cut their healing by 33% even though Poison did no condition damage.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
You’re forgetting that Poison also reduce their healing efficiency.
I have nothing else to tell you. If you choose to play defensive, then might as well grab a Cleric or a Magi set to boost your healing then go 30pts into Shadow Arts and 30pts into Crit Strike (Hidden Killer) and play hit-and-run (stealth + backstab).
Other than that, you really need to use your skills effectively — for example — traiting Mug (DA 10) will make you poison + damage + heal on steal; and when used on players trying to heal, you effectively cut their healing by 33% even though Poison did no condition damage.
It’s not about playing defensive. Everyone knows that a bunker or defensive thief would be utterly useless. It’s about giving thieves some reward for being up in the heat of the fight. As the class currently sits, one must trait for stealth and spam stealth to be able to avoid damage. I feel if they want build diversity, give thieves some ability to stay out of stealth by letting them heal a little bit. Signet is a joke, as is Assassin’s Reward. So, if you want a reasonable amount of healing, you have to be stealthed, therefore doing no damage.
I would agree…but I have a feeling they keep the healing on it low due to how easily thieves can heal in stealth. If they nerfed access to stealth, I have a feeling they’d buff the skill more.
I can get it to tick for 138 HP per attack, which I think is pretty awesome considering how easy I find it to spam Death Blossom to help heal, along with Caltrops, Dagger Storm, and Choking Gas (anything that procs a condition also activates the healing). A regen build as a thief tends to work out well in WvW for zerging and just overall surviving, at least IMO.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I’m working on a warrior right now…it’s too simple and boring for me to play it longer than 2 hours. It requires the least thought and strategy out of all the GW2 classes.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
1500 hp + 1 condi clear on dodge = New hard to catch acobatics grandmaster trait revamp
I would take this forever. It would also be a nice compromise for the whole vigor nerf.
Wait that would actually be good but it’s certainly too pricey as a grandmaster trait and especially with the vigor nerfs “iceberg” which is gonna hit the prow soon. sigh Problem is it’s kinda futile to come up with suggestions since the devs are just gonna do their thing despite their lack of knowledge when it comes to this class. Hell, when i finally saw the new heal skill……yeah i’m quite underwhelmed to be honest.
Mug heals me for ~2k every 20 seconds and withdraw for ~4.3k every 15.
Depending on how frequent I use them this sets me up at ~340-390 hp/s + stolen regen, my next goal is to utilize Infiltrators Strike and Dodges well to not be where the damage takes place in the first place. Frequent and swift usage of IS will reduce the overall condition dmg you’ll take and good positioning and dodging will do the rest.
Shadow Step and Runes of Lyssa will provide you with a burst cleanse.
The problem with trickery builds however is that they at some point, especially when under the effect of chill will run low on initiative, if you are good at managing initiative and know how to keep the initiative expense:income balanced during the fight, this will happen less frequent.
Also I find this build more rewarding and more punishing at the same time than any other thief build. Next patch it might be unplayable though since it relies heavily on infiltrators strike and the vigor from bountiful theft.
This is what I use. It’s a very fun build, especially in WvW but it is indeed very vulnerable to conditions. I actually stuck a Sigil of Generosity on my sword which is entertaining when it lands at the perfect moment. I also make use of Shadow Return a lot to drop conditions~ since sword’s auto attack does so much damage you don’t need to really be dependent on spamming 3. I use Traveler Runes to drop SoS for Agility or any other random utility I found useful to swap to. Used to use Shadow Trap till they ruined it.
How much I love this build is also why I really dread the upcoming patch. Trickery is very hard to spec fully into with Critical Strikes being pretty much a requirement to kill anyone with Sword. The only reliable defense you have is shadowstepping (when it doesn’t bug and rubberband) and Vigor, and of course the Mug Heal&Stun. As of currently though it’s not only fun and “tricky” against enemies but it’s a good team support build.
I’m pretty positive an Anet employee has literally never played this build. I’m not even sure they know it exists.
| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. | Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.” “Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.
My thief uses healing power and can survive in the middle of the zerg fights pretty well while remaining visible 90% of the time.
Dodging = caltrops = AoE attack = multiple heals from Sigil of Malice.
5 different ways to speed up my endurance regen = lots of dodging = lots of AoE = constant healing. Combined with other traits and aoes, I heal quite a bit all the time.
The build also uses Assassin’s Reward, but I get more healing from passive malice. If the buff is substantial, that might change.
Try changing to 10/0/0/30/30 (PvP variant of the build linked here). It provides constant condi removal, and the truth of the matter is that the traits and points that you lose from CS are hardly worth anything compared to what you’ll gain. You also get tons of condi removal from Shadow Returning a bunch.
I wouldn’t call AR “mediocre healing” because it heals for 69 points per initiative (at least); provided you generate at least 1 init per second. For me, I generate 1.05 initiative per turn passively and up to 0.48 initiative per turn actively, allowing a little over one and a half points of initiative per second. That translates into about 105-ish health per second. It’s still not, like, amazing or anything (especially because it often becomes difficult to keep passive initiative regen up at that level constantly, and because active init regen tends to be lower than the aforementioned number), but it still translates into a pretty nice amount of sustained healing over the course of a fight.
Yeah, I began to use the signet of malice with the sword build, and realized the healing activates per enemy hit with an attack, so using the sword or shortbow can do some good healing. But, with the Dec 10 patch coming up, and the nerf to shadow return + vigor, I have switched to the typical d/p Shadow Arts build, as the 300 per second in stealth is much more survivable.
I’m working on a warrior right now…it’s too simple and boring for me to play it longer than 2 hours. It requires the least thought and strategy out of all the GW2 classes.
Try killing things 5-7 levels above you. You’ll have more fun leveling it.
