Guild Wars 2

I play a condition thief and I rarely find Heartseeker useful in my PvP rotation since applying 3 stacks of bleeding simply puts more pressure. The only times I use it is maybe if my target is almost dead and I just need to do 2-3k damage and I spam it a few times or if I just need to catch up to my opponent. In general, it’s also pretty clear that as far as dagger/dagger goes, Heartseeker is the ability preferred by burst, crit damage thieves while Death Blossom is used by condition damage thieves.

I would really like to see both abilities be used by both types of thieves. What if Heartseeker had an extra condition applied to its tooltip where it did more damage if your opponent has bleeds applied and the increase was large enough where it actually be a good idea for a burst thief to use Death Blossom first and then spam his Heartseeker and it would also be a good idea for a condition thief to use Heartseeker to finish off his opponents when they’re around the 30% or lower because it actually does more damage than 3 stacks of bleeding.

This is an extreme example, but just as an idea, the current damage of Heartseeker could be cut in half, however if your target is also bleeding, it would pretty much double the damage. This could cut down on how much damage a thief can do within the first few seconds of a fight and could also make the thief rotation a little more interesting rather than just spamming one ability.

Players with condition removal would also stand a better chance at surviving a thief burst and at the same time a thief won’t be able to just hit you as hard as he does right now and kill you within a few seconds, it would take a little bit of planning, skill and patience.

ability in skill slot 2 of melee weapon is by default gap closer. Heartseeker fullfilles this role perfectly

A Heartseeker at 25% health for your condition thief is no less useless than a Heartseeker at 100% health for my direct damage thief.

Can we all agree that’s not entirely useless?

Heartseeker’s prowess as a gap closer is simply too strong to disregard. We’ve enough tools to get on top of someone, but the speed and surety of the Heartseeker really bring you the upper hand. It puts opponents on the defensive, acts as a guided missile during massive melees, and gets me out of a pickle whenever I withdraw into stupid places (all too often!)

It costs next to nothing, and it’s just there for you, on twitch, all the time.

Those low-damage Heartseekers are pretty uninspiring when you’re playing a well-controlled style, though.

I’d always wished for a more Five-Point-Exploding-Palm-Technique type of Heartseeker. Used early, it merely Seeks the Heart (applies Vulnerability) Only when it is found, with perfect precision, can the killing blow strike the heart. (that’s your direct damage, then).

I’ve been eager to hear more exciting ideas, but your idea gave me doubts about how it would interact with bleeds—until I considered how cool it would be with weapon swapping from pistol or shortbow. Also—just imagine if Backstab could be configured to deal bleed damage from the front. Backstab or Facestab. It’d really bring shape to the crazy condition / big damage mutant that is double dagger.

Heartseeker at 25% on my condition thief hits for up to 2k… keep in mind there is no cond/prec/vitality gear, so my crit chance pretty much doesn’t exist… The other day I got spammed by 3 heartseekers in a row for roughly around 4k each after using my dodges to try and predict that incoming combo from stealth, which worked. I had to use shadowstep to get far enough and recover and I ended up winning so I think it still hits for twice as much, especially since yours can crit and mine can’t.

A cool idea could even be that for every Death Blossom used you get 10% increased damage on your next Heartseeker and it can stack up to 5 or 10 times. This way, that 2k heartseeker could hit for maybe double that once per fight.

The d/d condition build looks pretty fun right now and I’m having a blast with it, it just bothers me that I don’t always get to use all my skills and I’m afraid that soon enough it’ll just feel far too simple and 1 dimensional.

I’m currently recording footage for a montage and in many of the clips I’m just spamming 3 and then going into stealth and its pretty effective. I want to do more to be just as effective or better.

stefanplc.5234

Heartseeker at 25% on my condition thief hits for up to 2k

that’s if you get lucky and the heartseaker actually hits, after then nerf heartseaker misses a lot. I only use it to move around quicker now.

The other day I got spammed by 3 heartseekers in a row

Let’s have a good gloat about all the noob thieves we’ve destroyed.

I find that off-hand pistol’s Black Powder is especially good at taking out this kind of thief.

When in danger, just sit in your cloud of smoky sanctuary and let them spam away. Pulsing blind will take every one of them, consuming their initiative. Even to surprise your foe with two averted Heartseekers, before they wise up, is severely to reduce their resources.

It’s also brilliant to sit inside your cloud with impunity while the enemy stealths.

what if heartseeker become a condition based dagger skill.(they will remove the damage modifier)

and it will become a bleed modifier

50% above 3 stack of bleed

50% below 4 stacks

25 below 5 stacks of bleed

Oldgrimm.8521:

what if heartseeker become a condition based dagger skill.(they will remove the damage modifier)

and it will become a bleed modifier

50% above 3 stack of bleed

50% below 4 stacks

25 below 5 stacks of bleed

Imo it would be quite stupid for those daggers that play d/d burst. Heartseeker is hardly the biggest source of damage anyway and a waste of initiative as anything other than a finisher.

This made me lol so hard I’m sorry.

Here’s a better idea.

Leaping Death Blossom- Do an evasive leap over your target striking them 3 times. Each hit does double the damage of previous hit.

Bam, I changed the odd ball skill to something more fitting with the rest of the D/D weapon set. Your suggestion is understandable and I truly really appreciate the fact that your current build really doesn’t make use of the whole skill bar but guess what; You’re the one using the oddball skill here. Don’t ask for the rest of the weapon set to be changed so that the single oddball skill becomes less lonely and the rest of the set as a whole suffers. All of the Thief’s weapon sets are questionably designed and as I said, I can really appreciate you wanting another condition damage skill but the fact here is this is just a selfish, poorly thought out post. Sorry to be so blunt.

Now if there was a suggestion to turn D/D into a full condition damage bar with well thought out, synergized skill suggestions, that also potentially play well with other weapon combinations then sure, I’d be more attentive. But not to something like this.

I don’t understand why there is such a strong desire to “streamline” weapon sets into particular stat combinations. GW2 has done remarkably well by not making weapon/itemization design that cut-and-dry and it pays off in build diversity. I’m all for stuff like making backstab more appealing to more builds, but there’s no reason to cut down build diversity by narrowing weapon functionality.

Tulisin.6945:

I don’t understand why there is such a strong desire to “streamline” weapon sets into particular stat combinations. GW2 has done remarkably well by not making weapon/itemization design that cut-and-dry and it pays off in build diversity. I’m all for stuff like making backstab more appealing to more builds, but there’s no reason to cut down build diversity by narrowing weapon functionality.

Build diversity comes from using different weapons to achieve different goals. That’s the very basis GW2 skill design was based around. Making weapon sets share dual purposes only decreases the effectiveness of the set as a whole and as it is now; forcing you to use less skills. This is not really a problem at the moment because it is technically also a form of initiative management and since spamming the same couple skills is an option, you can get away with it. What you claim this is doing is “increasing build options” but all I see is it actually lowering diversity inside those “builds” which are actually built around single skills, not the weapon. On top of that, this “build diversity” idea is even more flawed because of the rest of the weapon sets as a whole sharing the same split goals.

You want diversity? What if you actually focused weapon sets to achieve goals correctly?

Dagger Main Hand – Large burst damage.
Pistol Main Hand – Ranged condition damage.
Sword – Sustained damage pressure.
Dagger Off-Hand – CQB damage prep.
Pistol Off-Hand – Ranged target control.
Shorbow- Situational utility skills.

That’s where your build diversity should come from. It should NOT come from combining something like;

Dagger Main – Large burst damage
+
Dagger Off-Hand – CQB damage prep.
===
CQB Condition damage.

This is not only completely counter intuitive but also hindering to the weapon combination as a whole.

You really want to achieve diversity? Create weapon sets that suit your goal. Building around a single skill on a single weapon set does not in any way constitute “diversity” nor does it support the OPs idea of changing skills.

As I said before, yes, due to the Thief’s mechanic you can get away with builds focused around such actions but you’re still being limited and that’s why the OP was suggestion a change to HS. The only problem with that is it just further exacerbates the problem in this particular case for everyone else. Thus, yes some skills do need to be drastically changed, but not the one he is suggesting.

I really like Heartseeker. It’s a nice gap closer, it starts to do good damage when mob is below 50% and it’s a spammable combo finisher, which is awesome. I combo Heartseeker all the time, either with myself for Chaos Armor when I steal that Ethereal puddle of mud thing, or with Ele Fire fields or even better, Guardian combo fields that give retaliation.

I think heartseeker is nice, but completely useless for me, as I’m a Toughtness/Vit Cond Thief. Does hardly any damage for me with my current build. I’m thinking that our pistols should get better bleed damage, but I do agree. If you’re running a condition build, you’re very limited on moves to stack condition. For D/D it’s Death Blossom, Pistol #1 is only good if you’re cloaked, then Shortbow #2 skill. Let’s not even talk about underwater combat… Spears have 0 condition damage at all.

We need more attacks to cater condition, not just utility.

Sco.9615:

You want diversity? What if you actually focused weapon sets to achieve goals correctly?

We’ve clearly got vastly different philosophies when it comes to this. Your way is certainly viable, and is used in most MMOs, while GW2’s current solution is a bit innovative.

The fact stands, however, that the current setup is both viable and effective at nurturing build and role diversity while allowing players to be effective at a number of playstyles. Revamping how traits/skills/stats interact to create several streamlined and obvious role-based builds would work, as most other games have shown in the past, but is it what is best for the game?

Tulisin.6945:

Sco.9615:

You want diversity? What if you actually focused weapon sets to achieve goals correctly?

We’ve clearly got vastly different philosophies when it comes to this. Your way is certainly viable, and is used in most MMOs, while GW2’s current solution is a bit innovative.

The fact stands, however, that the current setup is both viable and effective at nurturing build and role diversity while allowing players to be effective at a number of playstyles. Revamping how traits/skills/stats interact to create several streamlined and obvious role-based builds would work, as most other games have shown in the past, but is it what is best for the game?

This IS GW2’s design… Did no one bother listening to developers during development? Weapons achieve goals and the combination of weapons into sets allows you to achieve multiple goals or one goal really well. THAT is how the system was developed.
Yes, the current set up for Thief IS viable (only due to the Initiative system) as I’ve already stated and YES, I understand why people like it. However, the current system will always leave you wanting more(as evidenced by this thread). Thieves are so focused on the “powerful” or “most effective” skill they forge entire builds around it and get away with it. It works, but imagine how much more diverse you’d actually be if you were able, or god forbid, willing to use multiple skills.