Guild Wars 2

First of all, I am completely uninformed of all those nerfs and etc.
I made my Thief after the nerfs started on purpose since I don’t like broken classes. Now that nerfs started I made my thief and I am trying to stay here. Yup I am a bit masochist.

And this question is straight related to WvWvW only.

That said:

Why my Backstab damage is so low?
I keep floating around 5.7k~6k at best (solo, with foods only). I find quite amazing to see some thiefs hitting close to 12k (some even more) and I am stuck at half that.
What I am doing wrong?

For information, my stats in the attachment. I am using full Valkyrie with Zerk trinkets and Zerk Weapons. At the moment D/D and SB, though I am planning to change the SB to S/D since I like the combinations and I never really liked range damage.
Full Ruby Orbs on Armor and Trinkets.
Traits are 10/30/10/20/0

SoulSin.5682:

First of all, I am completely uninformed of all those nerfs and etc.
I made my Thief after the nerfs started on purpose since I don’t like broken classes. Now that nerfs started I made my thief and I am trying to stay here. Yup I am a bit masochist.

And this question is straight related to WvWvW only.

That said:

Why my Backstab damage is so low?
I keep floating around 5.7k~6k at best (solo, with foods only). I find quite amazing to see some thiefs hitting close to 12k (some even more) and I am stuck at half that.
What I am doing wrong?

For information, my stats in the attachment. I am using full Valkyrie with Zerk trinkets and Zerk Weapons. At the moment D/D and SB, though I am planning to change the SB to S/D since I like the combinations and I never really liked range damage.
Full Ruby Orbs on Armor and Trinkets.
Traits are 10/30/10/20/0

5700 -6000 is normal
you won’t hit any decent enemy for 12000 without 20 + stacks of might + 25 stacks of bloodlust 25 points in DA /30 Crit/114 % + CD
In fact i could claim i hit for 16500 and my stats are :
2850 power and 99% critical damage .
But the true is : my target was an upleveled character with missing armor parts probably

try 25/30/0/0/15 with full zerker and air sigil then come back and ask this question again.

well what your getting is actually closer to the real average most those high ones tend to be exaggerated by one side or the other.

They are possible but you have to go more or less all the way full glass and heap on as much power and crit damage as possible. some more zerkers (loose vit, gain precision so you can sacrifice precision else where such as buffs etc) further into deadly arts for more power, the right food+utility buffs etc etc.

It also depends heavily on the targets your hitting if you target the squishies and try and distinguish up-levels from actual 80’s that alone could up your damage somewhat.

most super high back stabs usually involve high might stacks, full blood lust, and at least a few vulnerability stacks. also things like having executioner and hitting a target with low hp or being full GC built (25/30/0/0/15) and even upleveleds are often involved. BS isn’t the instant 14k death button most people seem to think it is.

Edited for clarity

The highest crits are received by underleveled players. Meaning your not pressing the backstab skill wrong or anything.

Most thieves go full zerker tho, if you want the numbers. And most ppl run tanky these days too.

But if you ever want to feel anything but useless in a group scenario, you will leave shortbow where it is.

You are better off running hidden killer with crit damage and valk gear.

Full zerker is pretty bad.

I don’t believe full Zerk will make that much difference. Raising my Crit% won’t change my damage.

And yes, I am not using some high damage traits like Executioner. Maybe I should try changing my habits and stop Backstabbing player with full HP.

Well glad to know I am not exactly in the wrong way. Gonna change my traits a bit to adapt the new circumstances.

well the crit chance comes in/came in handy for the full burst even if you used hidden killer, but either way its generally not smart and your still not going to really be hitting the big numbers normally, they tend to pop up in silly circumstances such as high might stacks and fairly unfeasible util sets ups or the like.

Just don’t expect to be pulling off the fairly mythical 1-shots (which utilize at least 2 shots…)

SoulSin.5682:

I don’t believe full Zerk will make that much difference. Raising my Crit% won’t change my damage.

And yes, I am not using some high damage traits like Executioner. Maybe I should try changing my habits and stop Backstabbing player with full HP.

Well glad to know I am not exactly in the wrong way. Gonna change my traits a bit to adapt the new circumstances.

HP level of your target would make a difference on hard you hit them. You may be thinking of heartseeker. If you running Valk gear you’re going to need hidden killer unless your a gambling man and hope backstab crits. Even with my build I still have ~44% crit chance but it wouldn’t be enough for me to drop hidden killer

That actually seems about right. You can expect some more damage if you put more points into the power trait, but realistically speaking, full exotic zerker backstabs won’t hit nearly as high as people exaggerate them to be, unless it’s on an underleveled/undergeared.

RIGHT ANSWER : FULL zerker…ruby orbs full zerk accs same ruby jewels. 30 30 0 0 10. use 25 stacks bloodlust …….master maintenance oil….bowl of curry butternut squash soup…. pick the traits:
POWER: III IX XII
CRIT: II X (XI or XII)
TRICKS: V
SKills : Signet of malice-signet of agility-assassins signet-infiltrators signet-basilisk venom

operation: pop basilisk venom then signet of malice then quickly to assasinst signet …signt of agility…then infiltrors then cnd then quickly steal so it lands when u port to enemy then backstab. gg. then ull prolly die bc you used everythign and have no defense or way to survive….so yeah it hits hard but you will die guaranteed after if ther is someboyd else there. prolly wont even get stomp off but itll hit hard.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=345cvms&s=5

hit the same warrior for 14k bs with full armor on. as you see hes lvl 80.

I got sad at reading this post. It’s people that have the same mindset as you is why thief is always getting nerfed. People have no idea what thief does and always exaggerate (without actually knowing anything that they’re complaining about) in effort to nerf a class they don’t like.

“First of all, I am completely uninformed of all those nerfs and etc.
I made my Thief after the nerfs started on purpose since I don’t like broken classes. Now that nerfs started I made my thief and I am trying to stay here.”

It’s a shame there are so many people who think this way and don’t even know any better We never got a single nerf to how backstab works or its damage. What you’re experiencing is what thief has been like since launch. Well I’m glad that you actually found how dumb all those complaints are and how overblown the average backstab is but it’s not like the other 9001 people complaining about thief will even listen to the truth.

As stated above, those 12k crits you’re looking for were done with 25 stacks with a ton of might stacks and assassin signet. If those weren’t present then the person hit was either underlvld or naked.

If you stick with thief long enough to figure out what’s up you’ll find that they don’t got for 1 big hit but instead it’s a series of good hits in quick succession. The main cookie cutter combo was mug, cnd, backstab, hs spam but now that mug is pretty much a joke dagger pistol has become the go-to weapon combo. You can land that hs, gain stealth, backstab, flee but stay in combat. Do that over while being elusive and that’s where you should take your 1st steps. If you want to know how to do good, long fights, that will come in time when you figure out wth you’re doing. That’s the same for every class though.

If you do go 25-30-0-0-15 you will get more spike but you’ll also die if anything touches you. Just find a build you like and roll with it.

basically again…what randomfighter said…pretty said….and only way to get up that high is to do what i said in my previous post on here…..although d/p is the go to weaponset…its by far not the best. p/d bleed invis set is best. althought d/p is the only build that really beats on it….. bc of condi removal….p/d is so much better for zerg play. . so if u like playing zerg and being productive…..p/d…..and if you like straying and doing some 2 v 2s and 1 v2s or etc….pick d/p…..really depends if you wanna help your server or help your ego :P …..aoe dmg and ccs….stuns feras etc own d/p in zerg play. idk just really depends on what u like.

Travlane.5948:

basically again…what randomfighter said…pretty said….and only way to get up that high is to do what i said in my previous post on here…..although d/p is the go to weaponset…its by far not the best. p/d bleed invis set is best. althought d/p is the only build that really beats on it….. bc of condi removal….p/d is so much better for zerg play. . so if u like playing zerg and being productive…..p/d…..and if you like straying and doing some 2 v 2s and 1 v2s or etc….pick d/p…..really depends if you wanna help your server or help your ego :P …..aoe dmg and ccs….stuns feras etc own d/p in zerg play. idk just really depends on what u like.

what are you talking about? p/d is a horrible weapon set in a big fight, worse than d/p! d/p at least provides SOME aoe utility with black powder but p/d is just single target bleeds that require melee(CnD) to trigger. Shortbow is really the only weapon to consider in a “zerg fight” that is unorganized. [Not excluding sword builds and others, just saying shortbow is definitely “easier” to play helpfully in bigger fights]

p/d and d/p are both skirmishing sets, for small scale battles.

pistol dagger is also very easy to shake off if u have good condi removal. Any class (except engi sorta) has the ability to reduce your dps by about 75% just cause of the way conditions work atm.

I rock a 10/30/30/0/0 and lack 15K back stabs VERY often. Curry food with sharpening stone, blood lust stacks, assa siggy, and the will to dive with full zerk gear adds up to some crazy numbers.

This is the average damage you can get if you’re not glass cannon with 25 bloodlust stacks, 25 might stacks and probably AS.

You probably read a QQ topic and thought thieves do 30k damage with CnD Mug and Backstab.

Frenk.5917:

This is the average damage you can get if you’re not glass cannon with 25 bloodlust stacks, 25 might stacks and probably AS.

You probably read a QQ topic and thought thieves do 30k damage with CnD Mug and Backstab.

Have you read a single non-QQ topic about thieves that was written by a non thief? I can count the number of topics like those I’ve read on 1 hand. I might be being pessimistic but it doesn’t change the fact that 99% of people think thieves = terribad and useless in pve. Stupidest class ever, redic op, easiest to play, etc. etc. in WVW. Trash tier in pvp (Kinda true up until last patch, now we’re actually useful!).

SoulSin.5682:

First of all, I am completely uninformed of all those nerfs and etc.
I made my Thief after the nerfs started on purpose since I don’t like broken classes. Now that nerfs started I made my thief and I am trying to stay here. Yup I am a bit masochist.

And this question is straight related to WvWvW only.

That said:

Why my Backstab damage is so low?
I keep floating around 5.7k~6k at best (solo, with foods only). I find quite amazing to see some thiefs hitting close to 12k (some even more) and I am stuck at half that.
What I am doing wrong?

For information, my stats in the attachment. I am using full Valkyrie with Zerk trinkets and Zerk Weapons. At the moment D/D and SB, though I am planning to change the SB to S/D since I like the combinations and I never really liked range damage.
Full Ruby Orbs on Armor and Trinkets.
Traits are 10/30/10/20/0

Are you using Hidden Killer for the guaranteed 100% crit rate?

Secondly, a damage number alone is meaningless. It could be against some glassy light armor or someone who’s upleveled. Or it could be with party-provided might stacks, vulnerability stacks.

And a lot of times, when people say “backstab”, they’re actually counting Mug, Cloak and Dagger and Backstab.

And really, who cares about how much damage you’re dealing? As long as your enemy dies, it’s all good.

Any thief running that glass canon a build is tasty chow mein for me and no competition for any sane player of any class. You might hit under levelled weaklings for 16k but you’ll drop like a wet bag when someone sneezes near you and count yourself lucky to get them down when they’ve completely ignored your spam to focus on an actual threat.

Aiden.6483:

Travlane.5948:

basically again…what randomfighter said…pretty said….and only way to get up that high is to do what i said in my previous post on here…..although d/p is the go to weaponset…its by far not the best. p/d bleed invis set is best. althought d/p is the only build that really beats on it….. bc of condi removal….p/d is so much better for zerg play. . so if u like playing zerg and being productive…..p/d…..and if you like straying and doing some 2 v 2s and 1 v2s or etc….pick d/p…..really depends if you wanna help your server or help your ego :P …..aoe dmg and ccs….stuns feras etc own d/p in zerg play. idk just really depends on what u like.

what are you talking about? p/d is a horrible weapon set in a big fight, worse than d/p! d/p at least provides SOME aoe utility with black powder but p/d is just single target bleeds that require melee(CnD) to trigger. Shortbow is really the only weapon to consider in a “zerg fight” that is unorganized. [Not excluding sword builds and others, just saying shortbow is definitely “easier” to play helpfully in bigger fights]

p/d and d/p are both skirmishing sets, for small scale battles.

ok….p/d is muuuuuuuuuuch better for large fights….;let me qualify my statement….i say this with the idea that most play somethign like 10 0 30 30 0. u know….115 point condi ticks…… uncatchable trait…..22k hp…..50% faster in stealth….50% less dmg or vigor on heal….. this build i run thru 40 people like a joke….down a few maybe but i really dont die. i run blind powder…shadow refuge and shadowstep with withdraw/HiS andd dagerstorm which i use for stability and roll out of(keeps stability when needed) or just use it to reflect pesky range. is it bad against d/p? yes……….not much else can keep up with condi removal however. and in a zerg….d/p dies bc it only gets 2.5 secs of stealth instead of 4………… i mean i doubt ur going to get more HSing over teh same black powder spot right? i mean 50 + in a zerg is going to use fear….stun…..KDs…pushes…pulls…..wells….. even if not targeting you they will hit you by accident. and with 14/15k hp you arent going to be able to survive at all. yeah yeah….stay on the edges right? pick off the easy ones? lame….not helping….and conditionally helpful if u can manage more than 1 persons dmg. d/p comes out of invis way to early most the time in big fights and the first cc usually owns it. with the build i said with p/d it doesnt. you get away from several and in a zerg can use caltrops after porting to middle/’back of their zerg and then DS and port back with SS. much more productive and usefull and also survives 10x better….. in a small skirmish….people bring anti stuns and cc skills mostly. yes…..in zergs they bring area dmg and or heals/ AOE ccs. granted they are good. like ive always said. it depends if u wann ahve fun or be productive for your guild. also you can run the same 22k p/d build with just as much survivability and run venom share instead…..just switch out heal in stealth for venom share….and boom ur 10xmore helpful just by sharing devourer….basilisk….and icedrake….with caltrops.