Guild Wars 2

Rangers get massacred by d/d conditions anyway. The meta is just going to shift more towards evasion builds and scrubs are STILL going to get owned, stealth or not.

At this point I actually want them to break stealth so they can’t avoid noticing how limited the other options are anymore.

LameFox.6349:

At this point I actually want them to break stealth so they can’t avoid noticing how limited the other options are anymore.

this

I don’t mind anti-stealth skills and I run D/P

Other classes are forced into certain builds if they want to win too, just sayin’.

LameFox.6349:

At this point I actually want them to break stealth so they can’t avoid noticing how limited the other options are anymore.

Was kind of thinking the same thing. People are always moaning about stealth but they don’t consider the alternatives. They think if stealth is nerfed across the board then survivability and utility are buffed it’ll work out? lol ok.

The new leaked notes suggest the applied Revealed is only 4 seconds.

It’s kind of like I was discussing in chat with some others. Good thieves really don’t spend that much time in stealth. Long stealth is handy as a reset button or GTFO, but not really mid fight. As a condition cleanse, the most important is the instant tick. The next tick is 3 seconds away. 3 seconds is a long time to stay on fire when you have Thief health. Also, In that time, you could’ve backstabbed/sneak attacked someone and been a good chunk through your revealed debuff, ready to do it again. Despite popular belief, we’re not invincible in stealth. Nor do we stack up boons every second in stealth like Mesmers. Time spent stealthed is time spent not winning.

So, I don’t really see an anti-stealth utility with a 10% up time as threatening.

Edit: I did skip over Shadow’s Rejuvenation, but that one’s not game breaking either. It’s comparable to something like Warrior’s Healing Signet, but more situational. I can get comparable healing rates from Assassin’s Reward + Signet of Malice, except replace “regenerate health while in stealth” with “regenerate health while rearranging intestines”.

My S/D build still wreak them…who needs stealth? Didn’t you notice that they are whining about Thieves evades now…surprise, surprise.

I guess chain blind is next…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

My S/D build still wreak them…who needs stealth? Didn’t you notice that they are whining about Thieves evades now…surprise, surprise.

I guess chain blind is next…

I’m sure they’ll nerf that too eventually till we’re supposed to stand still and auto attack.

I wouldn’t mind if they removed stealth and replaced it with our block spam from GW1 though. Then people can really complain about OP Thief/Assassin defense.

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Just throw tons of bleeds on him and use passive warrior healing signet and banner aoe heal and tank 9000 S/D Thieves at once with your immortality while they die easily to condition spam then and you’ll be fine.

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Having -100% condition duration applied to you isn’t OP either.

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Everything that Thieves does is OP, don’t you know that?

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

tp/tp thieves are so OP! My warrior has to eat cheese from the cheese platter one piece at a time. Nerf them, or there will be no cheese for the rest of us!

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

tp/tp thieves are so OP! My warrior has to eat cheese from the cheese platter one piece at a time. Nerf them, or there will be no cheese for the rest of us!

Queue Queue! Roll a cheesemer and see how much you complain.

Am I the only non-thief that thinks thieves are fine, and not in need of a nerf?

Kitten, man, thieves are fine. I dont want or need any anti-stealth skills, I already have plenty: AOE’s, Stuns, Knockdowns, Conditions, Even mashing 1-1-1-1-1-1…..

This improvement isn’t really anything to worry about. 4s isn’t long, and it will finally make fighting rangers a challenge. They need lovin too.

Sanduskel.1850:

This improvement isn’t really anything to worry about. 4s isn’t long, and it will finally make fighting rangers a challenge. They need lovin too.

Try d/d conditions and you may have to rethink that statement.

the way I see it limited anti stealth isn’t really going to be an issue. However, this might push D/D power builds further back. Not a complaint just an observation. If stealth gets hit hard then thief meta in WvW will just shift more heavily toward evasive builds (sort of has already). If that happens there is chance that other things might be buffed for thief to provide more options in the play style. All that being said. Anti stealth on one skill that isn’t that useful should not have all that much of an impact. IMHO stealth should have some counter play. If this is the introduction then we will have a better idea if they will keep it or roll it back like 4 sec revealed.

I really don’t mind, it will barely affect us and not every ranger will be slotting it anyway.

However if they start giving anti-stealth skills to other classes(they probably will) then it is rather unfair and would seem like everyone ganging up on the thief at kindergarten, if you catch my drift.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

tp/tp thieves are so OP! My warrior has to eat cheese from the cheese platter one piece at a time. Nerf them, or there will be no cheese for the rest of us!

May I offer you some whine with that cheese, good sir?

The sad thing about this is, it will require a Ranger to waste a good Utility slot just to use Sic ’em. Kinda lame.

I wonder if the spirit Rangers will even bother with this….hmmm.

TheGuy.3568:

IMHO stealth should have some counter play.

But stealth already has counterplay. Dodge CnD, interrupt HS through BP with any CC, spam AA while they’re in stealth and use it to predict where they are before placing AoE’s and PbAoE’s, and finally, dodge their Backstab or use a block if you have one available on your shield (a lot of people do). There are tons of things you can do to counter a Thief, and none of them are as cheap as a utility skill that counters a core mechanic directly.

Incurafy.6329:

TheGuy.3568:

IMHO stealth should have some counter play.

But stealth already has counterplay. Dodge CnD, interrupt HS through BP with any CC, spam AA while they’re in stealth and use it to predict where they are before placing AoE’s and PbAoE’s, and finally, dodge their Backstab or use a block if you have one available on your shield (a lot of people do). There are tons of things you can do to counter a Thief, and none of them are as cheap as a utility skill that counters a core mechanic directly.

And this gets back to the core issue that has been debated for I do not know how long. Anybody says anything about thief is too much from OP or just too much work to counter and forum thieves lose it (tbf warriors ele every class does this). Through the rose tinted glasses of many thieves stealth is perfectly fine. The problem is in almost all mmo games stealth itself is a problem. Counter play to stealth not the DPS that comes with it is literally knocking someone out of stealth. It isn’t even more complex than that.

CnD as I have stated in the past has great counter play. If the thief misses CnD with its obvious animation then they are in trouble. Only pure spike builds could even be considered an issue and atm they have been nerfed into the ground.

BP D/P has no real counter. Most stun skills are melee and they blinded you with the cast so. Any counter leaves the person countering vulnerable and beside warrior not many other classes have interrupts quick enough to stop the application (not that they don’t have them they aren’t quick enough so before you write a response with 20 different skills and traits with daze pay attention). What you are really being asked to do is stand in the field and hopefully interrupt the cast by getting hit. The type of aoe you talk about really belongs to one class and that is necro (once again I know other classes have lots of AoE but this is about speed).

BS has counters like all melee skills it suffers from people walking away etc. Not many classes have shields (3) and only 2 use it primary in PvE and it is barely for the block. You dont usually have to dodge a backstab but keep moving and in many cases the thief will not catch up to use it. That being said it is like dodging any melee DPS skill so it is not really an issue.

Lets not get into great detail over the healing and the utility skills that stealth. In any case there is no real counter play to the stealth itself. I can tell you right now in the hands of an experienced player stealth is not an I win button but it is a you can not and will down me button. What having some (not a lot) anti stealth skills will allow other classes to deny some thief builds it’s primary access to everything. Implemented right it will up the meta and make the class better for it.

Right now stealth in many builds is access to main DPS, condition cleansing, and combat passive healing. Many other builds have these things. However most (not all as some do things we can not even imagine) can be interrupted or stopped with proper dazes/stuns etc. The issue is so many thieves run D/P S/D SR with enough dodging and mobility to stop most efforts to do this while never really being denied of stealth. Deny stealth as long as it is not spammed allows counters to stealth stopping these things from happening.

It isn’t about denying the DPS but the difficulty for fighting something you can not see. There is an inherent imbalance there not at the class level but at the player level. It is as simple as you can not see me but I can see you.

I do not see this as something to be scared of even playing DD I am going to be honest it is not even a test of skill at this point. It such a small bit of meta change like stability to stuns, ripping boons to boon duration builds, melandru to conditions and they are putting it on the class that it is easiest for us to down. This is not 4 sec revealed all the time. It is giving one class the capability to stop you from entering stealth every 40 seconds. Not a big deal and likely there should be more of it so we can expose the classes utter reliance on it.

TLDR

Stealth has no true counter play. Things that we do from stealth has come counter play but stealth itself does not as no skills knocks you out of it or stops you from getting into it.

A post filled with assumptions, excellent. I’m not even going to bother replying to that, sorry, I can already tell that it will evolve into a 2 page argument that goes around in circles.

Doggie.3184:

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Just throw tons of bleeds on him and use passive warrior healing signet and banner aoe heal and tank 9000 S/D Thieves at once with your immortality while they die easily to condition spam then and you’ll be fine.

im a ranger, not a warrior, i hate warriors as much as you do

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The sad thing about this is, it will require a Ranger to waste a good Utility slot just to use Sic ’em. Kinda lame.

I wonder if the spirit Rangers will even bother with this….hmmm.

probably not

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Everything that Thieves does is OP, don’t you know that?

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

Well, abusing a mechanic that’s supposed to be a weapon chain is kind of op and s/d does it religiously , but that’s getting fixed and it will also only steal 1 boon so it doesn’t matter anyway but there are things rangers have that people cry about too, BM build (got nerfed) , spirits (got nerfed) , condition removal (lol) , and having to worry about a pet in general (lol), etc etc, and this will be no exception (it will work with mesmers/engi stealth as well). we’re as scrutinized as you guys actually, if not more in PvP than thieves. It’s usually in WvW that stealth gets complained about anyway.

Zacchary.6183:

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Having -100% condition duration applied to you isn’t OP either.

what? do you think im a warrior abusing -condi removal? -condi/+condi duration foods need to be nerfed anyway.

I’m just saying. There is a little bit of OP in every class.

Incurafy.6329:

A post filled with assumptions, excellent. I’m not even going to bother replying to that, sorry, I can already tell that it will evolve into a 2 page argument that goes around in circles.

Actually your reply to my first post was filled with assumptions as well. 2 pages is very unlikely (though I respect your choice). I would eventually just stop caring and let you continue with your own thoughts. Generally speaking all post are filled with opinions so it is very hard to convince someone they are wrong or that you are right as they are trying to do the same to you. In either case the anti stealth is going to be part of the game for some period of time.

The good news is regardless of the skills potency, rangers still remain the go to class for the newer players which means on 90% of the rangers it won’t matter how good it is.

For the other 10%, Dire has already created some pretty potent condi bunker rangers so Sic’Em will be a minor irritant compared to constant condition application.