Guild Wars 2

Got bored last night so played around with a very high crit damage and high stealth build in PvP and WvW and had a laugh with it. I am sure most have played with similar, I did enjoy it… it’s not supposed to be optimised.

Weapons: D/D + S/D

Traits:
Deadly Arts: 10 (Mug)
Crit Strikes: 30 (Side Strike, Practiced Tolerance and Executioner)
Shadow Arts: 30 (Infusion of Shadow, Patience and Rejuv – all because this is an infinite C&D tactics build)

Runes:
PvP: Divinity
WvW: Scholar (mainly as you stay above 90% health as you abuse C&D with regen in stealth)

WvW stats (with condition food and Signet of Agility):
Attack 3.3k
Armour 2.3k
Power 2.3k
Precision 1.9k
Tough 1.2k
Citality 1.2k

Crit chance 50% (I was using perception sigil so this ended up around 62% after 25 kills)
Crit damage 109

HP 14k

Armour: All Valk armour, All Zerk weapons and trinkets.

Skills: I was running lots of heals and stealth help (HiS, refuge, blinding powder and SoA)

WvW Tactics:
Don’t burst at the start… burst when they hit 50% and think you aren’t too much of a problem.

C&D and Mug into pack of baddies… choose your target and avoid reveal debuff by hitting C&D, count to 4, hit C&D so you stay in stealth and bang HP off the chap for a few rounds then burst him with sword or BS for fast finish.

Lots of stealth, regen and heals available so very recoverable even if they catch you with your pants down and you crit often and bloody hard with that 109 crit damage.

Had a few 1v1’s and they can’t even escape when they know what is going on… sword and steal closes big gaps.

Supply camp turnovers are very relaxing and attract those small fights that are more fun.

PvP Strategy:
Aside from the usual team on team smash fest I had a bunch of duels with a good mesmer while I was getting accustomed to the build and we left the bouts with him just 1 up at the end which I was happy about bearing in mind it was a rusty start.

No C&D abuse in here as folks are too robust for it to really bother them over time and have good heals… I was just playing high crit S/D and D/D as you expect but with loads of survivability from the regen/heals and tons of access to stealth. Rarely died and was able to burn down most folks.

Like I said – it was nothing other than a bit of fun but I enjoyed it so much I’m keeping it for a while (I’m usually P/D so was a nice fusion of the safety of */D with some big hits on top).

I’ve been running this kind of build for a while and I think it’s going to be the next FOTM build once more people start countering P/D condition builds. With S/D and SB it’s nearly unstoppable (in WvW that is).

I have been playing with S/D too for the past couple of days…I use S/D as my main set…and switch to D/D or SB for secondary depending on situation…and I’m having a lot more fun then with the boring yet very potent P/D condition builds…

I find myself requiring very little initiative…which in turns allows for great deal of flexibility with traits…

You get a decent amount of burst, survivability and mobility…and have moves to counter and beat any type of class…and it’s not only about pushing the same keys over and over…you actually get to be creative and adjust/adapt to whatever situation you’re facing…

By far the most fun I’ve hads with the thief class…

I run a very similar build as well, but the trait selection is slightly different. In Shadow Arts I pick up Shadow Protector, Shadow’s Embrace, and Shadow Rejuv. All this regen allows me to weave in and out of fights with Infil strike and recover health when I’m in a bad situation.

I find its the perfect counter to P/D thieves, as they’ll be struggling to keep stacks on you while they’re constantly getting CC’d and you’re stealthing. And I think the poster above is right, as more P/D thieves figure out how ridiculous that build is, more will jump on the bandwagon and we’ll have lot’s of requests for how to beat that build.

Also, I used to do the Infil. Strike → CnD → Tac strike mini combo, but now I reserve that for when I get a target to around 50% health, so I can interrupt their healing spell. Before that, you’re better just using Infil Strike → Crippling Strike → Shadow Return and flank them. They typically can’t hit you while being forced to face forward and immobilized.

Jericho.4521:

I run a very similar build as well, but the trait selection is slightly different. In Shadow Arts I pick up Shadow Protector, Shadow’s Embrace, and Shadow Rejuv. All this regen allows me to weave in and out of fights with Infil strike and recover health when I’m in a bad situation.

I find its the perfect counter to P/D thieves, as they’ll be struggling to keep stacks on you while they’re constantly getting CC’d and you’re stealthing. And I think the poster above is right, as more P/D thieves figure out how ridiculous that build is, more will jump on the bandwagon and we’ll have lot’s of requests for how to beat that build.

Also, I used to do the Infil. Strike -> CnD -> Tac strike mini combo, but now I reserve that for when I get a target to around 50% health, so I can interrupt their healing spell. Before that, you’re better just using Infil Strike -> Crippling Strike -> Shadow Return and flank them. They typically can’t hit you while being forced to face forward and immobilized.

P/D fanboi here.

You can easily counter D/D + S/D with a pistol offhand. Most likely, the fight will end in a draw.

However, the build is very good vs others.

Letting Crippling Strike play out does look very init friendly.

I found that I needed a bunch of C&D when there were lots of enemy there though (hence my heavy investment in init regen)… the blink-stabbing worked out better for me than the infil strike… but when fighting just one or two I’ll use auto more.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Sifu.6527:

Jericho.4521:

I run a very similar build as well, but the trait selection is slightly different. In Shadow Arts I pick up Shadow Protector, Shadow’s Embrace, and Shadow Rejuv. All this regen allows me to weave in and out of fights with Infil strike and recover health when I’m in a bad situation.

I find its the perfect counter to P/D thieves, as they’ll be struggling to keep stacks on you while they’re constantly getting CC’d and you’re stealthing. And I think the poster above is right, as more P/D thieves figure out how ridiculous that build is, more will jump on the bandwagon and we’ll have lot’s of requests for how to beat that build.

Also, I used to do the Infil. Strike -> CnD -> Tac strike mini combo, but now I reserve that for when I get a target to around 50% health, so I can interrupt their healing spell. Before that, you’re better just using Infil Strike -> Crippling Strike -> Shadow Return and flank them. They typically can’t hit you while being forced to face forward and immobilized.

P/D fanboi here.

You can easily counter D/D + S/D with a pistol offhand. Most likely, the fight will end in a draw.

However, the build is very good vs others.

How would you counter it with a Pistol in off hand? With pistol 5?

I have fought some (they are so friggin rare) D/P thiefs and they got crushed very badly. But maybe they were just bad players. I’m using S/D + D/D.

What gear are you wearing?

Can you throw this build into this, with gear?
http://intothemists.com/calc/

How would this build work with 3 thieves in vent marking targets?

Do you feel like you are exploiting the flaw with the reveal debuff not having a chance to get applied?

Sifu.6527:

Jericho.4521:

I run a very similar build as well, but the trait selection is slightly different. In Shadow Arts I pick up Shadow Protector, Shadow’s Embrace, and Shadow Rejuv. All this regen allows me to weave in and out of fights with Infil strike and recover health when I’m in a bad situation.

I find its the perfect counter to P/D thieves, as they’ll be struggling to keep stacks on you while they’re constantly getting CC’d and you’re stealthing. And I think the poster above is right, as more P/D thieves figure out how ridiculous that build is, more will jump on the bandwagon and we’ll have lot’s of requests for how to beat that build.

Also, I used to do the Infil. Strike -> CnD -> Tac strike mini combo, but now I reserve that for when I get a target to around 50% health, so I can interrupt their healing spell. Before that, you’re better just using Infil Strike -> Crippling Strike -> Shadow Return and flank them. They typically can’t hit you while being forced to face forward and immobilized.

P/D fanboi here.

You can easily counter D/D + S/D with a pistol offhand. Most likely, the fight will end in a draw.

However, the build is very good vs others.

Indeed, but I use a SB for secondary. Being forced into melee constantly is pretty dangerous, and having extra evades + high damage on cluster bomb helps assuming you can somewhat predict where the thief is, and surprise shot is very nice if you have deception utils.

The reason you gave is part of the reason I stopped using D/D as a secondary. P/D thieves who know what they’re doing can stop your infil. strike shenanigans.

Sorry if this might sound newbie, I’m kinda new to theif, just trying it a bit in spvp (mostly played P/D condi build), but wanted try something else. My score started to top the score boards after I tried this build, though I’m still a bit doubtful to it. First off, in spvp it doesn’t seem to work that good. With sword I only crit around 2k dmg (since you cannot get 109 crit damage in sPvP and I’m a bit fuzzed how you even get that much in PvE, the most I ever had on a lvl 80 full zerker mesmer, was around 89 crit dmg).

Nevertheless, it just feels like a hell to chase down your enemy with S/D. Because often I’m trying to use Infiltrator’s Strike twice (because of a miss or just a 2nd time when the target is trying to get away) and instead I get Shadow Return (which wouldn’t be a problem if it didn’t get me even further away from target). So in such case, heartseeker for me is much easier way to get to the target.

But my main problem is that it feels like waaay too much like messing around. When I meet other D/D zerker thief they usually put me down in 2-3 hits while I only get them down by half while messing around with infiltrators strike, c’n’d and tactical strike.

Also I didn’t fully understand your C’nD tactic. It sounded like you were trying to stack stealth using C’nD twice in a row but that doesn’t work since I get reveal buff on 2nd time I use it. Atm I’m trying out your build and a similar tactic but with D/D and S/D as secondary weapon set. Though maybe I just need to practice S/D a bit more.

@paleeshi
there is no revealed debuff applied if u wait for the stealth to wear off without doing any attacking. So, u just need to time it perfectly, when the first CnD’s stealth start, u stick beside the enemy and wait 3 seconds, then channel one sec for another CnD, then stick around and wait 3 seconds, rinse and repeat, until the enemy comes back from AFKing and starts moving around.

@WakkaJabba: Ok but what is the point of this tactic? You not gonna get anyone killed with just stealthing.

Sounds like a very fun build and more stealthy than the glass cannon build i am currently running with D/D. I’ll try this build out in WvW but with full zerk and a few valk accessories :P

I practiced soMe more with this build and i’m really starting to like it. I swap to d/d at less than 30% to burSt down enemy with heartseek

Yep, I’ve been using the D/D + SB version of this build for the last 3 months in WvW and I love the hell out of it.

Mobility?
Meh, I’ll just disappear.
Then just reappear with my dagger in your spine.
And leave you alone…
Promise.
“Thiefs’ Honor”.
/stealthtroll

Faeyd.5094:

Got bored last night so played around with a very high crit damage and high stealth build in PvP and WvW and had a laugh with it. I am sure most have played with similar, I did enjoy it… it’s not supposed to be optimised.

Weapons: D/D + S/D

Traits:
Deadly Arts: 10 (Mug)
Crit Strikes: 30 (Side Strike, Practiced Tolerance and Executioner)
Shadow Arts: 30 (Infusion of Shadow, Patience and Rejuv – all because this is an infinite C&D tactics build)

Runes:
PvP: Divinity
WvW: Scholar (mainly as you stay above 90% health as you abuse C&D with regen in stealth)

WvW stats (with condition food and Signet of Agility):
Attack 3.3k
Armour 2.3k
Power 2.3k
Precision 1.9k
Tough 1.2k
Citality 1.2k

Crit chance 50% (I was using perception sigil so this ended up around 62% after 25 kills)
Crit damage 109

HP 14k

Armour: All Valk armour, All Zerk weapons and trinkets.

Skills: I was running lots of heals and stealth help (HiS, refuge, blinding powder and SoA)

WvW Tactics:
Don’t burst at the start… burst when they hit 50% and think you aren’t too much of a problem.

C&D and Mug into pack of baddies… choose your target and avoid reveal debuff by hitting C&D, count to 4, hit C&D so you stay in stealth and bang HP off the chap for a few rounds then burst him with sword or BS for fast finish.

Lots of stealth, regen and heals available so very recoverable even if they catch you with your pants down and you crit often and bloody hard with that 109 crit damage.

Had a few 1v1’s and they can’t even escape when they know what is going on… sword and steal closes big gaps.

Supply camp turnovers are very relaxing and attract those small fights that are more fun.

PvP Strategy:
Aside from the usual team on team smash fest I had a bunch of duels with a good mesmer while I was getting accustomed to the build and we left the bouts with him just 1 up at the end which I was happy about bearing in mind it was a rusty start.

No C&D abuse in here as folks are too robust for it to really bother them over time and have good heals… I was just playing high crit S/D and D/D as you expect but with loads of survivability from the regen/heals and tons of access to stealth. Rarely died and was able to burn down most folks.

Like I said – it was nothing other than a bit of fun but I enjoyed it so much I’m keeping it for a while (I’m usually P/D so was a nice fusion of the safety of */D with some big hits on top).

what sigils do you use in your weapons? Im new to thief (1 day at lvl 80), can you tell me what these acronyms mean "
Skills: I was running lots of heals and stealth help (HiS, refuge, blinding powder and SoA)"
HiS and SoA, Thanks in advance for your response.

I’ll try and answer as much as pOssible.

After 20 or so more hours I have actually settled on S/P rather than S/D. Reason being is that I was getting all the C&D I needed from the daggers in the second set and Pistol Whip was actually pretty useful (situationally of course).

I’ve had duels with Mesmer, thieves of all sorts, warriors and necros and not lost any… But also not won a few as I needed to reset out after screwing something up. I’m going to video some fights and post sometime this week but I love the damage and survivability.

Ok so someone questioned C&D repeat usage… It is only handy in pvp if your other stealth skills are down and you want to sit amongst the other team. In WvW it can kill, but is boring.

I’ve changed practiced tolerance to the trait that grants 10% chance to grant quickness on a crit and it pretty much happens every 30s and it’s usually when I then hit Whip to capitalise on it.

Sigils are Air and Force on both sets for the lightening strikes and 5% damage in PvP and perception and force in WvW.

Acronyms are hide in shadows (HiS) and Sigil of Assassination(SoA).

I’ve put in a lot more PvP than WvW in testing how well I tune into it but I am now totally hooked… I was loving P/D and this was just a break but it is far more versatile and fun. There is far less I have to reset with this setup and really when anything gets into sub 50% territory it is over very fast. Quickness always goes off early so if Whip lands hard then it’s a very quick fight.

Here is a quick video montage showing the build: http://youtu.be/nD0oOM-bLqU

First fight shows the weapons rotation in it’s simplest form as the thief dies to the inital burst. Infil Strike → Steal → Quickness fires so Pistol Whip → switch to D/D and finish up

Second fight, same thief but she survives the inital attack and we get to duke it out a bit.

Necro next.

Mesmer next.

Different Mesmer next.

Small ruck in clock tower.

A different thief fight where I got everything wrong It was very early in me trying the build and I managed to Pistol Whip thin air and also somehow think I was D/D near the end but wasn’t so instead of heartseeking to end it I chipped away at him with infil strike haha.

Seen and done this build before for PvE and WvW. Sure its great to have that supply of stealth at hand but at what cost? I don’t see this performing well in fractals too. In fractals, get the resists and you should be good to go. Forgot to mention in fractals I carry :

3 pistols
1 Short Bow
4 daggers
1 Sword

Each have different sigils and I just cycle them together with utilities that fit the situations that we are in.

I run a 10/30/0/15/15 build at the moment and I switch it to 25/30/0/0/15 for WvW or stay with the 10/30/0/15/15 even in WvW. This build (one posted by the threadstarter) when faced with an opponent who has played the game long enough knows that there is a thief around him or her. A warrior could pound you to the ground easily and same goes with a guardian. The build also can’t even compete with a D/D Elementalist thus i abandoned this build.

But then again, what did not work for me may work with others.

Just my 50 cents on this post.

Thanks for the perspective Lockon, appreciate it. I don’t do PvE so have no idea… you mean tanky warriors and bunker guardians right? They are a challenge no matter what you’re on I have fought plenty on P/D but only GC versions of them so far 1v1 on this build… and anything GC is an easy drop.

D/D eles should win… but weirdly I haven’t lost a 1v1 against one yet. They should beat pretty much anything though… I play one in PvP.

Sb, always have a SB.