Guild Wars 2

So I’m making a PVP build and I’m stuck on which major trait to use in the last section of Critical Strikes.

Executioner: Deal 20% extra Damage to foes below 50% Health
or
Hidden Killer: 100% Critical Chance from Stealth

The build I’m making will rely on stealth/backstab mostly.

Well if you’re stealth/backstab then there shouldn’t be any reason not to go HK.

If you go with Exe, you’re giving yourself a chance to not crit backstab and you’re limiting your possible ‘opener’ attack’s damage since its only 20% on a 1/2 HP target.

i’ve choosed for hidden killer in pvp,i think it’s better 100% crit of backstab because u need to kill someone very fast;energy pool of players (except guardian maybe) is generally enough for take them to 50%-60% with a behinded-backstab.i’ve tried both and i feel better hidden killer (a personal opinion btw)

Thanks for the input, I was thinking the same. Just wanted to know if there was any different opinions. As I thought, Executioner is better used in PvE

mmmh for random pve (world,events etc) maybe hidden killer is still better,cause mobs die pretty fast,anyway for dungeons exe indeed

Having already a 90% crit chance i chose Executioner.

I usually end up running with Executioner. 100% Crit Chance is great. But between the 1st talent in the Critical Strikes tree, and a base of 49-52% crit chance, I’m already about 70% crit when you hit below 50% health. Also, 20% extra damage is 20% extra damage. No matter if it’s on Backstab, the auto-attack chain, HS, Dancing Dagger, or CnD. All of which I use as well as my Backstab.

To me, it’s better to cover for 5 abilities over all, than try and focus specifically on one I can only do every 3 seconds with the revealed debuff. O.o

Thadren Calder.1397:

Having already a 90% crit chance i chose Executioner.

Somehow, I doubt you actually have a 90% crit chance… O.o

58% base, 63% with food, 75% with max stacks of Sigil of Perception on my bow (very easy to get max stacks in a few min in WvW) 80% with keen observer. Switch back to dual wield daggers each with Sigils of Accuracy for 90%. 97% with side strike.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Underpowered-Traits-and-Skills/197226

Executioner all day, only way I would use hidden killer is with a 0 precision build like I use in SPvP.

Err that permalink didn’t work like it should so this will do.
“XII. Hidden Killer (100% crit chance in stealth) -
Now I know beta players were grateful for the boost from a flat 50% crit chance to 100% crit chance change, but let’s face it, you are only going to land ONE hit from stealth and with a crit build a vast majority of the time it’s a critical hit WITHOUT this feat. I know this would be highly debated as to whether or not this actually underpowered but if you can only land one hit from stealth and you’re probably already sitting on 50% crit chance you are much better off with Executioners damage boost. One thing that could make this more appealing is a critical damage boost while in stealth so that the first attack you do which breaks stealth and reveals you hits harder than normal. A 25% critical damage boost on top of 100% crit chance while in stealth seems good and keep in mind it’s only going to work on a single attack.”

Mange.8324:

are you kidding me? only one hit? only one time stealth?
you are one of those guys who only know to spam hearseaker aren’t you?
its the best thing for backstap build and dont need any change

- werewolf

Are you kidding me? Why would you make such a ignorant reply and it’s almost like you didn’t read past the first sentence. Yes, news flash when you hit with a physical attack it breaks stealth and you are revealed for 3 seconds. ONE hit from stealth before you use it again, you don’t get to unleash a fury of attacks with your 100% crit chance and fact is if you’re specced crit you’re most likely at a 50% chance to crit already.
If you are getting this feat rather than the 20% damage boost then you are doing it wrong.

I’m one of those thieves that actually knows how to play the game, im sure you are busy pistol whipping since the heartseeker nerf so you need to cut it out.

The suggestion is a little over the top considering how much damage backstab already does and that the feat doesn’t have a cooldown but that was just my input on it. A 5-10% critical damage boost would be more in line with making it rival executioner.

Oh ho! I’m liking the information and different views/theories. I think I will be going Executioner now. I’ll have to make sure my Crit % is at 50% though. Think its only around 44.

Also,
Full Beserker? Full Berserker or 50/50 Beserker and Valkrie? For use in WvW as well.

Start with executioner, and if you find yourself saying “CRAP if only that backstab was a crit i would have won” then you can think about changing.

ShunsuiKouKyoraku.9106:

Oh ho! I’m liking the information and different views/theories. I think I will be going Executioner now. I’ll have to make sure my Crit % is at 50% though. Think its only around 44.

Also,
Full Beserker? Full Berserker or 50/50 Beserker and Valkrie? For use in WvW as well.

Depends on your play style, i like full berserkers in WvW. I’m good at avoiding death for the amount of kills I get.

Thadren Calder.1397:

58% base, 63% with food, 75% with max stacks of Sigil of Perception on my bow (very easy to get max stacks in a few min in WvW) 80% with keen observer. Switch back to dual wield daggers each with Sigils of Accuracy for 90%. 97% with side strike.

I thought you couldn’t stack Sigils of Accuracy.

Someone explained to me, the sigil with the highest stat is the one that takes the cake, and if both are the same, only 1 takes it.

Never tested it yet, didn’t want to drop the money in it.

Martym.6971:

Thadren Calder.1397:

58% base, 63% with food, 75% with max stacks of Sigil of Perception on my bow (very easy to get max stacks in a few min in WvW) 80% with keen observer. Switch back to dual wield daggers each with Sigils of Accuracy for 90%. 97% with side strike.

I thought you couldn’t stack Sigils of Accuracy.

Someone explained to me, the sigil with the highest stat is the one that takes the cake, and if both are the same, only 1 takes it.

Never tested it yet, didn’t want to drop the money in it.

What you stated is true. Dual Sigil’s Don’t stack.

I know sigils that proc don’t stack, but ive never gotten a diffinitive answer of these types. Did my own testing and with the 5% dmg sigil i noticed a difference when having 2 since 5% is easy to see when your testing with numbers 10k+.

Either way, even if i only have 85% crit chance there is no way i’d ever get hidden killer over executioner

Edit: From GW2 Wiki page regarding sigils. It looks like they may stack afterall.

Sigils that hold a charge per kill cannot be stacked (i.e. +5 power per kill and +5 condition damage per kill) one or the other shows up. This applies even if you swap weapons. For example if you had two different “On kill stacking stat bonuses” sigils on two different weapons, only the sigil of the weapon you make a kill with first will take effect. If you swap weapons and make a kill, the sigil from the second weapon will not take effect.

Charging and non charging sigils can be stacked.

Sigils that trigger on critical hits can trigger on any critical hits; the critical does not need to be scored with the associated weapon’s skills (e.g. a character with an offhand weapon imbued with a Sigil of Rage can still gain quickness when critting with their first three skills)

Sigils that have a chance to trigger on critical hits stack their chance percentages multiplicatively, not additively (e.g. two major sigils of fire – 20% chance on crit each – give a 24% chance on crit, not 40%).

Sigils that trigger on critical hits will not trigger on critical hits caused by mesmer illusions (this is to be confirmed with other summons).

If you have a main hand and offhand weapon equipped and have a “On kill stacking stat bonuses” sigil on only one of the weapons, you will only see a partial benefit from the sigil. If you have the same sigil applied to both the main hand and offhand weapon you will see the full benefit.

Thadren Calder.1397:

I know sigils that proc don’t stack, but ive never gotten a diffinitive answer of these types. Did my own testing and with the 5% dmg sigil i noticed a difference when having 2 since 5% is easy to see when your testing with numbers 10k+.

Either way, even if i only have 85% crit chance there is no way i’d ever get hidden killer over executioner

Edit: From GW2 Wiki page regarding sigils. It looks like they may stack afterall.

Sigils that hold a charge per kill cannot be stacked (i.e. +5 power per kill and +5 condition damage per kill) one or the other shows up. This applies even if you swap weapons. For example if you had two different “On kill stacking stat bonuses” sigils on two different weapons, only the sigil of the weapon you make a kill with first will take effect. If you swap weapons and make a kill, the sigil from the second weapon will not take effect.

Charging and non charging sigils can be stacked.

Sigils that trigger on critical hits can trigger on any critical hits; the critical does not need to be scored with the associated weapon’s skills (e.g. a character with an offhand weapon imbued with a Sigil of Rage can still gain quickness when critting with their first three skills)

Sigils that have a chance to trigger on critical hits stack their chance percentages multiplicatively, not additively (e.g. two major sigils of fire – 20% chance on crit each – give a 24% chance on crit, not 40%).

Sigils that trigger on critical hits will not trigger on critical hits caused by mesmer illusions (this is to be confirmed with other summons).

If you have a main hand and offhand weapon equipped and have a “On kill stacking stat bonuses” sigil on only one of the weapons, you will only see a partial benefit from the sigil. If you have the same sigil applied to both the main hand and offhand weapon you will see the full benefit.

It doesn’t work like that with the Sigils of Accuracy. Sigils have to be different to work, only one takes effect if they are the same dual wielding. Sigils is in its own “category”. Also the sigil “category” has “subcategories”.

There’s the “on proc” buff subcategory which shares its on internal cooldown, and there can only be one in effect with BUFFS “on proc.”

Then there’s “on proc” damage. They share the same internal cooldown dual wielding.

Then there’s the raw “stats” subcategory. You may have 2 different “raw stats” in effect dual wielding, like 5% damage and 5% crit, but not the same.

The reason this is, is because it would semi-gi-mp 2 handed wielding classes because Sigils are so powerful. ie Greatsword/Longbow

Which is why I would like a definitive answer. I know people’s opinions on why they do or do not stack. Reading other forums, this forums, game bug reports with arguments for both sides. I really don’t care since it’s only 5%. I would just like a definitive answer.

Also regarding semi kittening 2 handers, why would they complain any less if dual wielders could stack almost every other sigil and get a benefit but the same stat sigil. 5 crit and dmg is still just “powerful” as 10 crit when you look at the bigger picture. I realize that proc sigils share cooldowns or dont give double the crit chance to proc but it does help to have 2 over 1. If thats the case wouldn’t having 2 sigil’s of accuracy at least give 7% or is it going to be the other way around where you need 2 to get the 5%.

Well, I just went by what I have been hearing from multiple people, and formulated/brainstormed on it. That is the best of what I can come up with, and it explains everything, if it’s true.

We already know how on proc buffs work, can only have one. So it would make the most sense to me, since pretty much the same applies to on proc damage being limited by internal cooldown every 5 seconds, sense comes in here, that also applies to “raw stats”.

Also the only answer I can come up with to your question about 2h vs dual wield sigils, is, if I go by the above said, then it’s something they have overloooked, because we know for a fact you can use 2 different ones.

Not going to happen anytime soon, but they will probably either do one of 2 things:

1) nerf sigils on dual wielding professions.

or

2) Implement 2h specific sigils.

Ya that seems to be the problem i’m having. Everyone has an opinion, even what i have to say is just an opinion. Most of what i hear and read makes sense. Should duel wielders take advantage of 2 runes? There are good arguments for yes and no. Some sorta stack some don’t, and since sigil of accuracy doesn’t show up in the hero panel no one has a definitive answer. Personally i think either they do stack but don’t get the full bonus (7% instead of 10%) or they need 2 to get the full effect to balance out with 2 handers (need 2 to get the 5% when dual wielding) I guess we’ll never know for sure until an official post or the stat boosts show up in the hero panel.

An option I wouldn’t mind, especially if they aren’t letting sigils stack and want people to use different sigils would be to give 2 handers 2 slots for sigils.

Thadren Calder.1397:

Ya that seems to be the problem i’m having. Everyone has an opinion, even what i have to say is just an opinion. Most of what i hear and read makes sense. Should duel wielders take advantage of 2 runes? There are good arguments for yes and no. Some sorta stack some don’t, and since sigil of accuracy doesn’t show up in the hero panel no one has a definitive answer. Personally i think either they do stack but don’t get the full bonus (7% instead of 10%) or they need 2 to get the full effect to balance out with 2 handers (need 2 to get the 5% when dual wielding) I guess we’ll never know for sure until an official post or the stat boosts show up in the hero panel.

An option I wouldn’t mind, especially if they aren’t letting sigils stack and want people to use different sigils would be to give 2 handers 2 slots for sigils.

Well everything I have stated is all heresay…maybe they intentionally did it like that because any class dual wielding, they already balanced for it.

Or it could be an oversight. I’d like an answer also.

Does the 20%dmg apply to condition dmg from bleeds and poison as well ??

No, it doesn’t, just direct damage.

Was about to make a new topic with this but found it instead.

Didn’t see but a few opinions on this topic, and considering that was done back in Oct., what’s the general consensus today considering the ferocity change?

I run with about 50% crit chance as a base, but noticed a lot of my BS attacks don’t seem to get a lot of crits (I know RNG can be a pain sometimes), so I often wonder about swapping out Executioner with HK. But man, when that BS hits with a crit and that 20% extra damage, it’s nice!

There is actually some math behind this, but I won’t bore you. In general, if you’re running a competent gear setup, you want to have hidden killer if you don’t have fury in your build. If you do have fury, run executioner since it will cause you to deal more damage.

The guideline equation (math) behind it is following this equation:

(0.3+x)/(0.6+1.2(x)) = f(x)

Where x is your crit damage increase and f(x) is the expected percent chance to crit with those values.

Basically, it creates a general guideline to establish what your crit chance should be, given the amount of increased crit damage you have in your build. If your crit chance is higher than f(x), then use executioner’s. If it’s lower, then use hidden killer.

As I said though, if you have a competent gear setup, then it basically comes down to if you have easy access to fury in your build or not.

If you’re going to be using a lot of stealth, which is kind of necessry if you’re wielding a dagger in WvW, I think Cavalier/Vitality/berserker armor mixed is really good. Get about 20-30% crit chance and a lot of survivability and use hidden killer for guarenteed crit sigil procs. If you want to use full zerk gear executioner 100%.

With a lot of backstabs I think tankyness+low (but not no) cirt+hidden killer is optimal. However full zerk + executioner is good too.

I use hidden killer in WvW and executioners in PvP

For WvW I run Valkyrie armor with berserker trinkets and weapons. I usually go with Hidden Killer with that setup because most of the damage from that build is coming from backstab. I say it is all about your own preference and how you prefer to play the game.