Guild Wars 2

Just generally curious on opinions here..

Skills that cast for a “duration” (pardon my limited knowledge of skill names) such as the mesmer GS beam, the rapid fire ranger shot (NPC’s in WvW have it too), Volley (warrior rifle) and other similar skills, when cast, if you stealth while enemies trigger the mentioned skills, but their skill is still in precast time, can still home in and murder you even though you can no longer be targeted and are “invisible”.

Granted, it usually only becomes an issue when getting focused by more than 1 high DPS enemy but my issue with it is that it just doesn’t make any logical sense.

I guess on one hand I could see that the homing effect might be some form of purposeful effect to make certain classes still be able to hit thieves that can stealth rapidly (but I thought that was the point of the “revealed” debuff), however – apart from it making no logical sense (how can you pew pew arrows that home into something you can’t actually see) it seems to put melee classes at a general disadvantage since they still have to have an idea where the thief is in order to do damage, whereas one of these ranged skills is just sit back and watch your skill trail home in. Most of these skills apply damage for as long as a quick stealth so not only are you getting focused while stealthed, but the constant damage being applied is negating any in-stealth regen or healing you do, and then your stealth runs out and you are more vulnerable than you should be, with your heal on cooldown.

Reminder: This happens when someone hits a skill (like the ones mentioned above), the skill is in precast, and you stealth BEFORE actually taking any damage.. the skill will still home in on you, and do the full amount of damage. I have gotten hit by rapid fire/focus beams as much as 1-2 seconds (full count) into stealth (meaning I have already been stealthed for that long and all of a sudden something is homing in on my behind lol).

With that said:

What are other thieves opinions on this? Does anybody know if this is some sort of “balancing”, or just an after effect of the mechanics of the game that cannot/will not be fixed/changed?

Apologies if this topic has been beaten before.

wait it out, then go into stealth. IIRC most channels have a recharge time. the one exception I can think of off the top of my head is unload and mesmer gs AA.

the alternative is going into stealth to neutralize teh entire channel which would be OP.

You are referencing “channeled” skills.

If the enemy starts a channel and a Thief goes into stealth at any point after the channel as started (pre-cast or otherwise), the Thief will continue to receive the full effects of said channel.

Options are to interrupt the channel, dodge, line of sight via environment, or eat the damage.

Channels have the ability to offset Stealth (and potentially, traits supporting it) in more ways than one by providing constant damage over time and continued target location awareness.

Sometimes, that’s just how timing during a fight works. Though it’s enough to be annoying. xD

Here are a list of channeled skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Channeled_skill
You should be able to pick out the single-target channels over the others.

xmtrcv.5236:

You are referencing “channeled” skills.

THANK YOU! That is the word I was looking for.. (edited topic title)

Excalibur.9748:

wait it out, then go into stealth.

The problem is I usually don’t see it coming lol.. Sure sometimes it happens in 1v1, which is annoying but usually I just shrug it off… The main issue is if things go south and I try to GTFO I run, stealth, take a few more steps and all of a sudden (not looking behind me) I get PEW PEW PEW PEW KAMEEHAMEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAA ZERK KAPOW GRRRRRRKKK (3 or 4 ranged focus at same time while I’m still invisible) BLARGH… dead.

It IS just an odd fine line because I can totally see how stealth completely dropping the skill activation would be OP, unless it was placed on a 0 cooldown when this happens (but how that would specifically be coded I don’t know).. But on the other hand it’s just so illogical that it causes feelings of rage sometimes (sadface).

One of those things that is overall better for the rest of the world the way it is I suppose? But still disappointing when it is the sole cause of death when you could have otherwise escaped lol..

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

xmtrcv.5236:

You are referencing “channeled” skills.

THANK YOU! That is the word I was looking for..

Excalibur.9748:

wait it out, then go into stealth.

The problem is I usually don’t see it coming lol.. Sure sometimes it happens in 1v1, which is annoying but usually I just shrug it off… The main issue is if things go south and I try to GTFO I run, stealth, take a few more steps and all of a sudden (not looking behind me) I get PEW PEW PEW PEW KAMEEHAMEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAA ZERK KAPOW GRRRRRRKKK (3 or 4 ranged focus at same time while I’m still invisible) BLARGH… dead.

It IS just an odd fine line because I can totally see how stealth completely dropping the skill activation would be OP, unless it was placed on a 0 cooldown when this happens (but how that would specifically be coded I don’t know).. But on the other hand it’s just so illogical that it causes feelings of rage sometimes (sadface).

One of those things that is overall better for the rest of the world the way it is I suppose? But still disappointing when it is the sole cause of death when you could have otherwise escaped lol..

Gain some distance, and dodge roll first then go into stealth. This will dodge the channels before going into stealth which will probably work out better.

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll try to pay more attention and do that next time.. I tend to panic, and think “hurry up and stealth to avoid getting CC’d” if a big group comes after me.. That usually doesn’t even work anyways because you can still be AOE CC’d while stealthed. Survivability is definitely affected by thought process. True believer in L2P lol. I’ve gotten so much better with everybody’s suggestions here.

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.

Excalibur.9748:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.

Do you remember which weapon it was? Mesmer’s greatsword 5 is a cone knock-back, which is still basically an AOE and doesn’t require a target.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Excalibur.9748:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.

Do you remember which weapon it was? Mesmer’s greatsword 5 is a cone knock-back, which is still basically an AOE and doesn’t require a target.

don’t remember the weapon I don’t pay attention to what weapon my enemies use lol. but i didn’t see a red AoE circle on the ground.

Excalibur.9748:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Excalibur.9748:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.

Do you remember which weapon it was? Mesmer’s greatsword 5 is a cone knock-back, which is still basically an AOE and doesn’t require a target.

don’t remember the weapon I don’t pay attention to what weapon my enemies use lol. but i didn’t see a red AoE circle on the ground.

Yeah, there’s a few skills out there that are active in a cone area and don’t need a target to work. Blunderbuss is an example of one of those skills capable of damaging a stealthed player even though it’s from a ranged weapon and doesn’t put up a red circle.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels.

Well, this is what I mean though.. That statement right there is exactly why I see it as a problem. Why should you be able to continue channeling something that you can’t see? BUT on the other hand, why should a stealthed target limit some classes straight up 1v1 when the opponent only has (or mostly has) single target range skills. In theory, it could be said that they would never win. BUT the 3rd argument, is… should they be able to be skilled enough to kill targets while they are under the 4 second revealed state? In a sense it feels like it’s easy mode for ranged classes vs stealthed targets.

I’m trying to think of it from both sides. My intention was never to QQ or anything lol. I think it is just the nature of the game. If it was an FPS obviously you could just spray and pray (much like a melee can run around flailing and probably still hit me if they happen across my path while I am stealthed). But the game requires targets to effectively hit with ranged.. It just seems like that statement shouldn’t be true.

It’s still illogical, but like I said, I can totally see how due to the nature of the ranged combat design, the game would be way more broken with this changed from how it is. (unless a valid argument would be “get good enough to kill us while under revealed state”.. I’m not the greatest at stealth or maintaining perma stealth so I really don’t know how much validity that would have vs a much more experienced thief than I.)

Side Note:

Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

Not saying this is even effective (because it’s not an acceptable solution for ranged classes) but are you sure this is true? Pretty sure I’ve hit things with my shortbow that have run up in my face, without having them targeted.. maybe not though I’ll have to try after work.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Excalibur.9748:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Excalibur.9748:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.

i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.

Do you remember which weapon it was? Mesmer’s greatsword 5 is a cone knock-back, which is still basically an AOE and doesn’t require a target.

don’t remember the weapon I don’t pay attention to what weapon my enemies use lol. but i didn’t see a red AoE circle on the ground.

Yeah, there’s a few skills out there that are active in a cone area and don’t need a target to work. Blunderbuss is an example of one of those skills capable of damaging a stealthed player even though it’s from a ranged weapon and doesn’t put up a red circle.

Good to know for future reference, thanks.

Excalibur.9748:

I don’t have any explanation for this one. I just casted shadow refuge over the downed mesmer, I went ahead to stomp him. My stomp got interrupted. Is that even possible in this scenario?

Had that happen to me too.. Was there anyone else around? I believe “throw bolas” on warrior can “channel” into stealth and have the same effect as what we are discussing. I know I have gotten "bola"d while in stealth before.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Excalibur.9748:

I don’t have any explanation for this one. I just casted shadow refuge over the downed mesmer, I went ahead to stomp him. My stomp got interrupted. Is that even possible in this scenario?

Had that happen to me too.. Was there anyone else around? I believe “throw bolas” on warrior can “channel” into stealth and have the same effect as what we are discussing. I know I have gotten "bola"d while in stealth before.

Noone else around I was just 1v1ing this mesmer.

I kinda deleted my previous post cuz now that I think about it, there isn’t really any way a downed mesmer can interrupt me so I thought it must be my memory playing tricks on me.

Excalibur.9748:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Excalibur.9748:

I don’t have any explanation for this one. I just casted shadow refuge over the downed mesmer, I went ahead to stomp him. My stomp got interrupted. Is that even possible in this scenario?

Had that happen to me too.. Was there anyone else around? I believe “throw bolas” on warrior can “channel” into stealth and have the same effect as what we are discussing. I know I have gotten "bola"d while in stealth before.

Noone else around I was just 1v1ing this mesmer.

I’ve been hit by Magic Bullet while in Stealth (during duels).

Perhaps that is what you mean?

xmtrcv.5236:

Excalibur.9748:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Excalibur.9748:

I don’t have any explanation for this one. I just casted shadow refuge over the downed mesmer, I went ahead to stomp him. My stomp got interrupted. Is that even possible in this scenario?

Had that happen to me too.. Was there anyone else around? I believe “throw bolas” on warrior can “channel” into stealth and have the same effect as what we are discussing. I know I have gotten "bola"d while in stealth before.

Noone else around I was just 1v1ing this mesmer.

I’ve been hit by Magic Bullet while in Stealth (during duels).

Perhaps that is what you mean?

I guess it’s possible the mesmer used this before he was downed, and it bounced to me from maybe another nearby animal or something while I was trying to stomp him.

Excalibur.9748:

Gain some distance..

^ The ultimate solution — getting out of range interrupts the channel.

It would be too skilled to allow us to break channeled skills on reaction by burning an utility like smoke bomb. PvP is supposed to be a blind spam of skills :p

This is simply lazy poor coding. Really a bug. Even non channeled skills such as the warrior charge that stuns you.

Yeah this stuff is annoying

Interrupt > channelled skill > stealth

I like it, I can mostly predict when other Thieves will stealth so I use a heartseeker to home in on them then PEEK A BOO

been there since beta and there is no intention from the devs to change it so…
better get use to it…

“Interrupt > channelled skill > stealth”

The only thing I find annoying is the channeller turning to face you while they fire, so you can’t get behind them in stealth for a sword strike!

Yes, this is kittened arena game mechanics. Channeling spells can track you even in stealth.

the one thing i really hate, is the guardian gs skill binding blade, which can track you even 2 seconds into your stealth, if i was to shadow refuge, and then walk up to a guardian, his little projectile thing can home in onto me and get me…..which is absurd seeing as how i the thief am 1 in stealth, and 2 normal stealthing logic would determine him unable to use a skill that can home into a target that he cannot see initially, before the cast….thats my main gripe with theese kinds of skills, the others i can see as a balance, and anet probably wont change that mechanic, it is rather annoying to get that ele lightning beam on your forehead in stealth and still take oodles of damage :/

It’s not about making sense. It’s about the rule. The rule dictates that channeled skill still operates after enemies go into stealth.

There’s no such thing as sense in a video game.