Guild Wars 2

You guys are complaining about the changes like thief profession is going to die again. Here is a few things you keep forgetting:

1.) Stats from ALL traitlines are being shifted over to base stats and gear. This cuts off the stat reliance of traitlines. In terms of CS, the reason why we took it was because the 300 precision and ferocity and +20% damage to halfded target. But look! I don’t have kitten into CS and I still have my 300 prec and ferocity! And this applies to every profession.

2.) Trait have merged and some have been buffed. Anet also gave us the courtesy of combining traits in a way that makes sense. For example, those of you filthy venomshare peasant who used to take 7 traits before anyone batted an eye at you now only has to take 2-3, or w/e. Oh and here is the fun part about that…

3.) We can only have 3 out of 5 traitlines available. But we got an extra 4 traits meaning you filthy venomshare peasants only have to use up 1/8-1/6th of your available traits choices to be filthy venomshare peasants. Aaaaaand I think each venom is getting an extra application with the removal of the associated trait. So yay.

4.) Good traits that seem to have been nerfed like Feline Grace are not as bad as you think they are. Back to FG, the vigor applied gives 120% for 2 seconds. Add on the fact that all you have to do is make that Evaded thing appear on your head which for a thief is completely braindead easy. EDIT: I forgot to add on the other fact that with the vigor having such a short time but having a pretty high uptime, people who try to steal your vigor just blew w/e skill they had. Vigor is powerful but there is no point wasting a skill for 2 seconds. So losing it will be w/e.

5.) That is just alpha. Like… they are not final decisions. They could get better by the time HoT comes out and it is up to the thief community to provide well written and constructive feedback to help make sure it happens.

So sit down, take a deep breath and wait for the devs to show us the final product before complaining. k? k.

Also…

yolo swaggins.2570:

4.) Good traits that seem to have been nerfed like Feline Grace are not as bad as you think they are. Back to FG, the vigor applied gives 120% for 2 seconds. Add on the fact that all you have to do is make that Evaded thing appear on your head which for a thief is completely braindead easy.

Endless stamina is too weak to make up for the fact that FG doesn’t stack with vigor anymore or the loss of fluid strikes. It would need to be 50% before it’s going to make an impact on actual combat (which would be 1 more dodge every 20 seconds). I’m more or less happy about everything else though.

Math for FG and the change:

Baseline Endurance: 50(endurance)/5(endurance per second)=10 seconds per dodge

Baseline FG Endurance: 35(endurance)/(5 endurance per second)=7 seconds per dodge

Vigor Endurance: 50 (endurance)/ (5*2)(endurance per second)=5 seconds per dodge

New trait: 50 (endurance)/ (5*2.2) (endurance per second)=4.5454 seconds per dodge

Suggested trait (50% increase): 50 (endurance)/(5*2.5)(endurance per second)=4 seconds per dodge.

Current Vigor+FG: 35(endurance)/(5*2)(endurance per second=3.5 seconds per dodge

60606 thief is going to be godmode end of story please stop complaining friends. Yes acro and crit strikes got nerfed but that spec is a godsend to thieves especially in pvp.

Even though the original feline grace is gone that 1 lost second doesn’t mean much. Thief has a high dodge uptime already. The most this trait does is add reward to those who use evasions properly.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Even though the original feline grace is gone that 1 lost second doesn’t mean much. Thief has a high dodge uptime already. The most this trait does is add reward to those who use evasions properly.

Maybe post patch but in comparison to current gamestate, we already have perma vigor so we aren’t really getting much. But with the loss of the boon duration in acro the vigor will be worth it.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Even though the original feline grace is gone that 1 lost second doesn’t mean much. Thief has a high dodge uptime already. The most this trait does is add reward to those who use evasions properly.

Certain builds have high dodge uptime, and I’m not complaining about the change to feline grace wither, but I don’t think the new GMm trait is up to par. It knocks off less than half a second for dodging. Feline grace was one of the tools you could use to make up for the dodging deficiency of D/D which has an abysmal weapon evade. I’m just saying giving endless stamina a 50% boost would give thief 1 extra dodge every 20 seconds (instead of 1 extra dodge every ~50 seconds, which this trait is)

Eh? Thief, particularly D/P thief, looks like it will hit this new trait setup without missing a beat. I’ll hesitate to say it’s overpowered as most classes are also getting substantial boosts from the new trait system, but it very clearly works well with the strong points of the new trait lines.

Sure, Critical Strikes is a little undertuned without base stats to carry it, and Acrobatics is a tire fire, but the profession on the whole will be fine (especially if the new specialization line is worth using).

Maugetarr.6823:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Even though the original feline grace is gone that 1 lost second doesn’t mean much. Thief has a high dodge uptime already. The most this trait does is add reward to those who use evasions properly.

Certain builds have high dodge uptime, and I’m not complaining about the change to feline grace wither, but I don’t think the new GMm trait is up to par. It knocks off less than half a second for dodging. Feline grace was one of the tools you could use to make up for the dodging deficiency of D/D which has an abysmal weapon evade. I’m just saying giving endless stamina a 50% boost would give thief 1 extra dodge every 20 seconds (instead of 1 extra dodge every ~50 seconds, which this trait is)

Well at least they fixed Hard to Catch. Bad part about it is thieves cannot claim the worst trait in the game anymore. :P

yolo swaggins.2570:

Maugetarr.6823:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Even though the original feline grace is gone that 1 lost second doesn’t mean much. Thief has a high dodge uptime already. The most this trait does is add reward to those who use evasions properly.

Certain builds have high dodge uptime, and I’m not complaining about the change to feline grace wither, but I don’t think the new GMm trait is up to par. It knocks off less than half a second for dodging. Feline grace was one of the tools you could use to make up for the dodging deficiency of D/D which has an abysmal weapon evade. I’m just saying giving endless stamina a 50% boost would give thief 1 extra dodge every 20 seconds (instead of 1 extra dodge every ~50 seconds, which this trait is)

Well at least they fixed Hard to Catch. Bad part about it is thieves cannot claim the worst trait in the game anymore. :P

I mean I’m actually pretty happy with the changes other than this one. Hard to catch is a nice change. It’s just that acro and crit are underwhelming compared to the other 3 lines now like ensign said, especially since they don’t offer a stat boost even.

I think the change to Feline Grace in a vacuum is a good change. The trait is ridiculously powerful (it’s likely the single most powerful trait available to a thief at the moment), and a substantial nerf is absolutely warranted.

The problem is that Feline Grace, at the moment, is strong enough to carry the entire trait line, and it is – without it, Acrobatics is a bunch of junk that no one in their right mind touches, and chopping out Fluid Strikes isn’t helping much either. It’s a much more amplified version of what’s going on with the proposed Critical Strikes line – without a big stack of precision and ferocity, it’s just really underwhelming and doesn’t offer anything game changing (outside of maybe the GM traits).

So yeah, nerf Feline Grace, that’s totally warranted, but the line needs ~3 serious workhorse traits without it and there’s just nothing there at the moment.

Look, IF the changes go in remotely as proposed, then they are horrible. There’s no talking around that.

The only hope remaining is that they will backtrack on several of the changes completely, like moving Descent of Shadows back to Acrobatics, and fixing Feline Grace, and ideally allowing you to spec into 4 lines if you want. Short of that, no, horrible, and don’t try to spin it otherwise.

Can everyone please just be quiet and hope that no one notices that we can now take both Executioner AND Hidden Killer at the same time…
sssshhhhhhhhhh……….

I really wanna see how this works out when it goes live.
(^_^)

Christ, people complaining about feline grace change are completely missing the bigger picture.

First, we get panic strike and executioner in the same line. Second, we get resilience of shadow as a minor trait, giving us both 50% dmg reduction in stealth and insane health regen in stealth. That is already a huge buff to thieves. I daresay this will make thieves absolutely OP again with 60606.

Even if you decided to spec into acro, you have hard to catch, which is getting a pretty substantial buff, or you have swinder’s equilibrium, which is kittening amazing. Imagine how easy it is to evade random AoE in a team fight, and now imagine shaving off 1s on steal every time you do (with only 1s ICD). That is just borderline OP.

I don’t understand how any thief can QQ about these changes.

Christ, people complaining about feline grace change are completely missing the bigger picture.

First, we get panic strike and executioner in the same line. Second, we get resilience of shadow as a minor trait, giving us both 50% dmg reduction in stealth and insane health regen in stealth. That is already a huge buff to thieves. I daresay this will make thieves absolutely OP again with 60606.

Look, there probably are changes that make certain specific builds better than they were, and that’s all well and good, but it does nothing to offset the stuff they destroyed if you LIKED the stuff they destroyed. Maybe they made your thing better, but they definitely made my thing worse, so I reserve the right to be upset about that, but do not expect you to be upset for me.

Also, Swindler’s Equilibrium would be pretty neat, except that it ONLY works with a sword, and I do no use a sword, nor do I want to. If it worked with any weapon then Acro might still be worth speccing into.

Sorry to sound a bit gloom, but all the communities ideas are going into the void it seems.

The much complained Last Refuge is still as is. And well the thought of having a full on rework is now more distant than before.

Like yeah there might be buffs and the Hard to Catch having it’s random shadowstep removed – but that’s probably just coincidence, it doesn’t make sense that they make changes to one of the complained traits but not the other.

The fewer dodges is ok because:
a) mindless dodge spammers will be punished
b) they are trying to ensure it will be balanced with swindler’s equilibrium

I’m afraid for S/D though. I haven’t run 2/0/0/6/6 for months, since my team needed more damage support from me, so I’m 2/6/0/0/6 with S/D. I can play D/P, and it was my first weapon set on thief, but it is boring to me; S/D is my play style. You need agility signet to be viable without the acro line. Now sure, acro has got some nice changes and would be a fun 3rd trait line, but shadow arts as we saw it is now very strong for survivability and on revival support. That’s right - thieves now have a support option that can be taken as an addition, not as a trade off. This means D/P can not only have the same build, but improvisation is significantly buffed, they’ll be able to pop steal or blinding powder for 50% reduced incoming damage, it will also stealth allies preventing stomps and reducing incoming damage for them, allowing them to be fully revived. The 50% reduced incoming damage will stack with elementalist’s geomancer’s defence and protection, making downed eles essentially immortal while you res them. D/P so often hides in stealth for the opportune moment - now they’ll essentially have a passive healing signet while they do so. To even try to be this useful to my team, I’d have to take shadow arts which is less effective unless you’re D/P, and able to not need agility signet outside of acrobatics in order to take blinding powder, and free to stack stealth out of combat.

I’m hoping the revenant’s enemy shadow stepping skill - which I was initially gobsmacked by, thinking it’d be absurdly overpowered in preventing stomps and resses - will be that strong so as to counter this new ninja-nurse aspect of D/P thieves, and keep S/D in the running with what it can offer by going into acrobatics. I know they will both excel at different things - that is the point behind specializing in a trait line, of course - but right now I’m worried what D/P will be able to offer will just be too much more advantageous against what S/D will be able to. Time will tell though; being a consistent damaging presence in a fight beats hiding in stealth waiting, more boon removal is always good, with acro an S/D thief can keep a point neutral or even capped for a little while. Shadow arts will allow D/P to try to get that in-fight presence but they’ll need to instantly stealth to avoid death when focused, and won’t be able to fight on a point lending capture contribution as much, but they’ll be insane revivers. The meta shift and the composition will of course be a factor in which type of thief is preferred.

The fewer dodges is ok because:
a) mindless dodge spammers will be punished
b) they are trying to ensure it will be balanced with swindler’s equilibrium

Swindler’s Equilibrium only applies to swords though, it’s no value to any other weapon so you can’t consider it for overall balance.

Ohoni.6057:

The fewer dodges is ok because:
a) mindless dodge spammers will be punished
b) they are trying to ensure it will be balanced with swindler’s equilibrium

Swindler’s Equilibrium only applies to swords though, it’s no value to any other weapon so you can’t consider it for overall balance.

I can when I’m comparing two builds that will result from these changes, and of course the fact is they have to balance possible pairings of traits, regardless of whether some builds won’t be able to utilize them as a pair.

Quite the opposite, thief is way over the top after this change.
The Shadow Art is absolutely insanely broken because they now make all traits available in one bar thanks to shifting some traits to minor traits, now thief is official INVINCIBLE in WVW and perhaps in Stronghold too.

Thanks for messing up the game once again Anet.

My opinion about the whole thing:

I have mixed feelings about these changes. Shadow Arts is going to be a go-to most likely, which I don’t like. I also don’t like how they nerfed critical strikes. Deadly Arts is basically the new Critical Strikes.

And as an Acro player, I feel offended that we got traits like Guarded Initiation. We should have a “remove a condition on successful evade” trait. And they should just change Feline Grace to “Gain back endurance on a successful evade” if that’s the way they want to go with it, because dodging is our only defense and they’re nerfing it.

That being said, the fact that we can get 3 trait lines may make up for that. I plan on running 60066 D/D, and with the burst I get plus the new trickster (Definitely going to try that, but I will miss bountiful theft) it might make up for the lack of defense in the Acro line.

Honestly we just have to wait and see how things will turn out.

Edit: also what would be amazing is if they changed the death blossom evade frame to 1/2 at least, then make the sword evade/steal recharge trait global. That might make it a lot better.

Don’t forget Rangers are getting some nice buffs to burst as well. Its annoying avoiding a rapid fire, but what about 2 rapid fires back to back, with a pet who’s F2 (any pet, even birds) pulls you towards them with taunt allowing them to hit you again. If you get caught off guard with limited cooldowns against a ranger in the expansion, prepare to be destroyed. I’m wondering a lot how the evade attacks with swiftness will work. If dodging the first part of rapid fire will be enough to greatly reduce its damage, than acro thieves have some kind of response to this, but nothing bothers me more about the thief changes than the ranger changes. If they improve shouts, you might even get revealed once by them. Basically, rangers will serve as thief denial. You won’t be able to enter 1500 yards of ranger without good los and a plan on how you are going to get out.

What everyone hate and they could finally get rid of :

Last refuge adept minor

They did not → disappointment

mango.9267:

Christ, people complaining about feline grace change are completely missing the bigger picture.

First, we get panic strike and executioner in the same line. Second, we get resilience of shadow as a minor trait, giving us both 50% dmg reduction in stealth and insane health regen in stealth. That is already a huge buff to thieves. I daresay this will make thieves absolutely OP again with 60606.

Even if you decided to spec into acro, you have hard to catch, which is getting a pretty substantial buff, or you have swinder’s equilibrium, which is kittening amazing. Imagine how easy it is to evade random AoE in a team fight, and now imagine shaving off 1s on steal every time you do (with only 1s ICD). That is just borderline OP.

I don’t understand how any thief can QQ about these changes.

Look, I can understand that you may feel fed up with all the negativity on the forums. I too wasn’t very pleased with the immediate negative reaction to the simple announcement that changes were to be made. But after yesterday’s reveal, I can completely understand some of the anger and frustration and I count myself among the people who are upset. And sure, maybe SOME sets have been buffed and will be just fine, given the current load out and that’s great. But there are a number of other serious issues that need to be addressed.

For example, the dreaded “Last Refuge” is still there in it’s complete and unadulterated splendor. In a masterstroke of trolling by Anet, it was decided that the one trait that we have been begging to have fixed since the introduction of Revealed be left EXACTLY how it was. Meanwhile, traits like Infusion of Shadow were removed entirely. If that doesn’t look like a complete and utter raspberry in the face of the thief community, I don’t know what does.

There are other issues too, like the fact that Cloaked in Shadow was moved to the Grandmaster slot, which is a MASSIVE nerf to the D/D set; a set that was already withering in the shadow of its brother, D/P . It’s also a silly decision if the goal is build diversity, since no one is going to pick that trait over Rejuvenation of Shadow. Simply put, it’s not a trait designed to compete with other traits that far down the line.

Now again, not all the changes were bad. In fact I’d go as far as to say that most of them were good changes that thieves desperately needed. But the mistakes that were made were goofs; ones that should be addressed. And considering the fact that this is one of the rare occasions when Anet has actually said “Listen, this is not the final build of these traits. So if you don’t like what you see, please talk to us. We WANT to hear your feedback”, this is the best time to be posting and making our grievances known, as they might actually listen to us for a change (Yes, I know, I’m being optimistic. But at this point, it’s all I have to cling to).

I can when I’m comparing two builds that will result from these changes, and of course the fact is they have to balance possible pairings of traits, regardless of whether some builds won’t be able to utilize them as a pair.

But the thing is, if Feline Grace is fine when you don’t have Swindler’s Equilibrium, but is OP if you do have Swinder’s, then the solution is not to nerf Feline Grace, it’s to change Swindler’s so that it’s not a problem, like by adding an internal CD or something. You can’t balance one trait around another optional trait, you have to balance it against the baseline.

Maugetarr.6823:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Maugetarr.6823:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Even though the original feline grace is gone that 1 lost second doesn’t mean much. Thief has a high dodge uptime already. The most this trait does is add reward to those who use evasions properly.

Certain builds have high dodge uptime, and I’m not complaining about the change to feline grace wither, but I don’t think the new GMm trait is up to par. It knocks off less than half a second for dodging. Feline grace was one of the tools you could use to make up for the dodging deficiency of D/D which has an abysmal weapon evade. I’m just saying giving endless stamina a 50% boost would give thief 1 extra dodge every 20 seconds (instead of 1 extra dodge every ~50 seconds, which this trait is)

Well at least they fixed Hard to Catch. Bad part about it is thieves cannot claim the worst trait in the game anymore. :P

I mean I’m actually pretty happy with the changes other than this one. Hard to catch is a nice change. It’s just that acro and crit are underwhelming compared to the other 3 lines now like ensign said, especially since they don’t offer a stat boost even.

agree

there also was a trait where when you interrupt an action you give your opponent three stacks of torment? don’t think theres a cd either.
edit: realized the condi weapon set p/d doesn’t have head shot

I said this in another thread, I believe FG was nerfed due to Hard to Catch. , People love to CC thieves. Hard to Catch is very very valid now as an extra stun breaker and endurance regen.

Im not completely sure, but I think Hard To catch is going to help tramendously.

Though they are forcing some choice between resistance and endurance/stun breaker there.

But I think Hard To Catch is going to be very hard for people to pass up now even with the new resistance boon.

FG and Hard to Catch are two completely different things that have nothing to do with each other. No matter how good they make HtC, they should leave FG alone.

Dadnir.5038:

What everyone hate and they could finally get rid of :

Last refuge adept minor

They did not -> disappointment

It made no sense at all to leave it untouched. I swear they have to be trolling on purpose and actually plan on removing it. The stream chat had a pretty negative reaction and they didn’t talk about it at all or answer any of the AMA on it.

Ohoni.6057:

FG and Hard to Catch are two completely different things that have nothing to do with each other. No matter how good they make HtC, they should leave FG alone.

Actually Hard to Catch will now give 100% endurance regen. increase, while not randomly placing you somewhere and breaking stun.

I was specifically discussing the 100% endurance regen increase they added to it.

With that said, having FG go back to what it was and having Hard To Catch apply swiftness instead (as it does now) might be a better idea.

Also the biggest problem I see especially to S/D is that not only did they change FG but they put Pain Response and Vigorous Recovery in the same trait line. So you get one or the other.

So with FG changing, then Vigerous Recovery is a must, leaving you with the Resistance trait and Assassin’s Reward for Health and Condi pressure.

Of which I still think that Resistance trait should change to say 75% health allowing you to gain it at some point in time during the fight by healing up or something.

So yeah with the way this is set up now, I think I agree that S/D is going to feel this endurance change hard. D/P can actually do nothing but gain as it never used the Acro line at all.

Actually Hard to Catch will now give 100% endurance regen. increase, while not randomly placing you somewhere and breaking stun.

It will, which is a thing, but has nothing to do with FG. FG was the ability to dodge three times in a row. HtC does not do that thing, it does a different thing, which may be good or bad in and of itself, but if not a replacement for the thing FG did.

So yeah with the way this is set up now, I think I agree that S/D is going to feel this endurance change hard. D/P can actually do nothing but gain as it never used the Acro line at all.

My D/P Thief (nae D/D Thief) has ALWAYS had a few points into Acro, because I love the mobility. Would I ever invest all the way to the top? No, and I still don’t want to post-HoT, but will be forced to anyways if I want the early traits in the line. Overall I just dislike all of this. I think they’re trying to make us feel better about the previous trait changes in retrospect.

Ohoni.6057:

It will, which is a thing, but has nothing to do with FG. FG was the ability to dodge three times in a row. HtC does not do that thing, it does a different thing, which may be good or bad in and of itself, but if not a replacement for the thing FG did.

Well the way they look at this is “we have this trait line, we added endurance in the traitline here so we need to take some away else where. Otherwise combined it has the possibility of unlimited dodges and evades with Dont stop.”

And like I said, instead of adding endurance to Hard To Catch, revert it back to swiftness and revert FG to compensate.

Im agreeing with you due to the change in the S/D build. Pain response or vigorous recovery.

Currently both of those are in the S/D build. So because of FG now Vigorous Recovery will have to be taken, leaving that crappy resistance trait for condi’s. Which honestly, how often are you at 100% health in PvP. I find myself in combat on 80% of the map. So normal health regen is just not there. That skill will be fairly useless. So now for any decent endurance you pretty much have to give up condi resistance/clear.

I didnt say it was a good decision on their part, but it is how they look at traitlines and balance. How much endurance regen is in this line?

Well the way they look at this is “we have this trait line, we added endurance in the traitline here so we need to take some away else where. Otherwise combined it has the possibility of unlimited dodges and evades with Dont stop.”

Yeah, but the way it’s added one way is completely different than the other. HtC only triggers when you get CCed, and even then only once per 30 seconds. That has nothing on giving you an extra dodge every few seconds just whenever.

If they feel that what they gave HtC is too much, then they should take it back out of HtC, not take it out of unrelated abilities elsewhere in the line. I do not want what HtC is selling, I would prefer to just avoid getting hit by CCs in the first place, and if I do get hit, I have other stunbreaks to get out of it. I would take HtC if offered, but I don’t have any interest in paying for it.

I didnt say it was a good decision on their part, but it is how they look at traitlines and balance. How much endurance regen is in this line?

Not nearly enough to make up for Feline Grace.

mango.9267:

*Even if you decided to spec into acro, you have hard to catch, which is getting a pretty substantial buff, or you have swinder’s equilibrium, which is kittening amazing. Imagine how easy it is to evade random AoE in a team fight, and now imagine shaving off 1s on steal every time you do (with only 1s ICD). That is just borderline OP.

I don’t understand how any thief can QQ about these changes.

This.

I dont care that I dont get endurance back on dodge now, if I evade anything I get vigor, and I have a trait that lets me do it when swiftness is applied, which is, conveniently, every time I steal.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

mango.9267:

*Even if you decided to spec into acro, you have hard to catch, which is getting a pretty substantial buff, or you have swinder’s equilibrium, which is kittening amazing. Imagine how easy it is to evade random AoE in a team fight, and now imagine shaving off 1s on steal every time you do (with only 1s ICD). That is just borderline OP.

I don’t understand how any thief can QQ about these changes.

This.

I dont care that I dont get endurance back on dodge now, if I evade anything I get vigor, and I have a trait that lets me do it when swiftness is applied, which is, conveniently, every time I steal.

That’s fine and dandy. I don’t really mind the change to feline grace. The problem lies in the the new grandmaster minor trait which is too weak for the trait it replaces. At a 20% boost to the effectiveness of vigor, you’ll get a dodge back in 4.54 seconds as opposed to 5. That’s 1 extra dodge over regular vigor every 50 seconds, assuming 100% vigor uptime. That’s extremely weak compared to some of the other GM minors and paltry compared to the other defensive line’s GMm.

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

mango.9267:

*Even if you decided to spec into acro, you have hard to catch, which is getting a pretty substantial buff, or you have swinder’s equilibrium, which is kittening amazing. Imagine how easy it is to evade random AoE in a team fight, and now imagine shaving off 1s on steal every time you do (with only 1s ICD). That is just borderline OP.

I don’t understand how any thief can QQ about these changes.

This.

I dont care that I dont get endurance back on dodge now, if I evade anything I get vigor, and I have a trait that lets me do it when swiftness is applied, which is, conveniently, every time I steal.

Yeah I thought that too, but that trait only applies to projectile attacks, if it applied to any attack then it might be something interesting.

All I care about it is my 50036 power S/D + P/P build will be a 60066 Juggernaut after launch.

DA- Mug, Revealed, Exec
AC – PR, Swindler’s, QP (or DS)
TR – FS, Trickster, SoH (or BA)

It’s almost like the changes was meant to improve the performance of my current build.

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

It isn’t favoritism. It is just that anet is starting to realize that they shouldn’t be listening to players who want to destroy other classes.

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Because a ranger is a ranger…

If you start comparing classes trait for trait, skill for skill, the balance is just god awful and a lot worse than complained about by anyone. Yet no one really does that since there’s a bit more than just comparing trait for trait and skill for skill that goes into balancing. And actually, if you start to take everything into account when trying to balance things on your own, you will become overwhelmed (since it’s probably impossible to account for EVERYTHING), or you will be cutting corners somewhere (which is probably the most practical approach).

I’m sure rangers have their own issues to deal with with these changes, just like every other class. Not going to stick my noise into other classes.

Zero Day.2594:

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Because a ranger is a ranger…

If you start comparing classes trait for trait, skill for skill, the balance is just god awful and a lot worse than complained about by anyone. Yet no one really does that since there’s a bit more than just comparing trait for trait and skill for skill that goes into balancing. And actually, if you start to take everything into account when trying to balance things on your own, you will become overwhelmed (since it’s probably impossible to account for EVERYTHING), or you will be cutting corners somewhere (which is probably the most practical approach).

I’m sure rangers have their own issues to deal with with these changes, just like every other class. Not going to stick my noise into other classes.

Yes, we shouldn’t compare trait class to class, just that thief is already a better class than ranger even without the patch, yet they get better traits from the update

Now you have your god-mode SA line and Acro, and all the good dps traits merged into one line too. (Great job on Anet’s part of putting all the good traits from 2nd line to 1st line)

yolo swaggins.2570:

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

It isn’t favoritism. It is just that anet is starting to realize that they shouldn’t be listening to players who want to destroy other classes.

I don’t ask for destruction of other classes. I’m asking that Anet to make “Shared Anguish” comparable to thief’s “Hard to Catch” trait instead. Shorten the CD to 30 and add hide in plain sight into that trait function.

Toxsa.2701:

Zero Day.2594:

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Because a ranger is a ranger…

If you start comparing classes trait for trait, skill for skill, the balance is just god awful and a lot worse than complained about by anyone. Yet no one really does that since there’s a bit more than just comparing trait for trait and skill for skill that goes into balancing. And actually, if you start to take everything into account when trying to balance things on your own, you will become overwhelmed (since it’s probably impossible to account for EVERYTHING), or you will be cutting corners somewhere (which is probably the most practical approach).

I’m sure rangers have their own issues to deal with with these changes, just like every other class. Not going to stick my noise into other classes.

Yes, we shouldn’t compare trait class to class, just that thief is already a better class than ranger even without the patch, yet they get better traits from the update

If that is the case then complain in the Ranger forum and demand more for your traits instead of posting here and taking away from the Thief.

Now you have your god-mode SA line and Acro, and all the good dps traits merged into one line too. (Great job on Anet’s part of putting all the good traits from 2nd line to 1st line)

That comment is pointless. You should be saying to ArenaNet, “Mee Too! Mee Too!”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

…

Now you have your god-mode SA line and Acro, and all the good dps traits merged into one line too. (Great job on Anet’s part of putting all the good traits from 2nd line to 1st line)

That comment is pointless. You should be saying to ArenaNet, “Mee Too! Mee Too!”

Lol, yup. Why complain/hate on something, when instead you could try to sneak in/ask for buffs for yourself

While right now is the opportune time to bash on other classes and ask for nerfs, it’s an even better time to get your own class in order…

Besides this is the 1st wave of changes, there should be another wave of changes on the release of HoT or after HoT – so even if these go through, don’t get too attached to them.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Toxsa.2701:

Zero Day.2594:

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Because a ranger is a ranger…

If you start comparing classes trait for trait, skill for skill, the balance is just god awful and a lot worse than complained about by anyone. Yet no one really does that since there’s a bit more than just comparing trait for trait and skill for skill that goes into balancing. And actually, if you start to take everything into account when trying to balance things on your own, you will become overwhelmed (since it’s probably impossible to account for EVERYTHING), or you will be cutting corners somewhere (which is probably the most practical approach).

I’m sure rangers have their own issues to deal with with these changes, just like every other class. Not going to stick my noise into other classes.

Yes, we shouldn’t compare trait class to class, just that thief is already a better class than ranger even without the patch, yet they get better traits from the update

If that is the case then complain in the Ranger forum and demand more for your traits instead of posting here and taking away from the Thief.

Now you have your god-mode SA line and Acro, and all the good dps traits merged into one line too. (Great job on Anet’s part of putting all the good traits from 2nd line to 1st line)

That comment is pointless. You should be saying to ArenaNet, “Mee Too! Mee Too!”

I posted here because Anet will be more likely to read threads in the class specific forums that they favor on. Anet wouldn’t go to ranger forum anyway.

Toxsa.2701:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Toxsa.2701:

Zero Day.2594:

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Because a ranger is a ranger…

If you start comparing classes trait for trait, skill for skill, the balance is just god awful and a lot worse than complained about by anyone. Yet no one really does that since there’s a bit more than just comparing trait for trait and skill for skill that goes into balancing. And actually, if you start to take everything into account when trying to balance things on your own, you will become overwhelmed (since it’s probably impossible to account for EVERYTHING), or you will be cutting corners somewhere (which is probably the most practical approach).

I’m sure rangers have their own issues to deal with with these changes, just like every other class. Not going to stick my noise into other classes.

Yes, we shouldn’t compare trait class to class, just that thief is already a better class than ranger even without the patch, yet they get better traits from the update

If that is the case then complain in the Ranger forum and demand more for your traits instead of posting here and taking away from the Thief.

Now you have your god-mode SA line and Acro, and all the good dps traits merged into one line too. (Great job on Anet’s part of putting all the good traits from 2nd line to 1st line)

That comment is pointless. You should be saying to ArenaNet, “Mee Too! Mee Too!”

I posted here because Anet will be more likely to read threads in the class specific forums that they favor on. Anet wouldn’t go to ranger forum anyway.

Well.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Carry on. Just make sure you’re posting in the right forums.

Toxsa.2701:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Toxsa.2701:

Zero Day.2594:

Toxsa.2701:

Hard to catch is also one of the more broken traits in terms of balance.
Auto negates CC on a 30 sec CD, and also grants endurance. So now you can’t even knock thief out of SR, while SA line grants God-mode.

How come ranger’s prevent CC trait is on a 60 second CD, sacrificing pet to do so, and NO SECONDER Y EFFECT? We even lose the trait “Hide in Plain Sight”.

A-net’s favoritism has no end.

Because a ranger is a ranger…

If you start comparing classes trait for trait, skill for skill, the balance is just god awful and a lot worse than complained about by anyone. Yet no one really does that since there’s a bit more than just comparing trait for trait and skill for skill that goes into balancing. And actually, if you start to take everything into account when trying to balance things on your own, you will become overwhelmed (since it’s probably impossible to account for EVERYTHING), or you will be cutting corners somewhere (which is probably the most practical approach).

I’m sure rangers have their own issues to deal with with these changes, just like every other class. Not going to stick my noise into other classes.

Yes, we shouldn’t compare trait class to class, just that thief is already a better class than ranger even without the patch, yet they get better traits from the update

If that is the case then complain in the Ranger forum and demand more for your traits instead of posting here and taking away from the Thief.

Now you have your god-mode SA line and Acro, and all the good dps traits merged into one line too. (Great job on Anet’s part of putting all the good traits from 2nd line to 1st line)

That comment is pointless. You should be saying to ArenaNet, “Mee Too! Mee Too!”

I posted here because Anet will be more likely to read threads in the class specific forums that they favor on. Anet wouldn’t go to ranger forum anyway.

You haven’t been here long have you?

This is as dark as an alley as the Ranger’s — no Dev ventures here.

All the changes you’re seeing from the RU is just something we Thieves have learned to accept and adapt to. If it ended up favoring our build — good. If not, we reroll.

@ Toxsa.2701

I did the same thing you just did a while back, came into the thief forum and ran my mouth like an idiot about how OP thieves were because of stealth and damage and so on.

I got challenged to roll one, they are not that OP and can be very difficult to keep alive.

The biggest difference in this class than any other class in game is the active defense it has. It has the best active defense than any other class.

It has zero passive defense except on boon steals and the boons from stolen goods(mesmer only), so all defense is a challenge.

No stab, hardly any condi clear, thieves do a lot of damage and still will, but its still an active defense profession and will stay that way.

And if you look through this forum right now, you will see a lot of people complaining about the hits to that active defense they are taking.

Trust the people that play thieves, they are complaining because they know what it will do.

nightblood.7910:

@ Toxsa.2701

I did the same thing you just did a while back, came into the thief forum and ran my mouth like an idiot about how OP thieves were because of stealth and damage and so on.

I got challenged to roll one, they are not that OP and can be very difficult to keep alive.

The biggest difference in this class than any other class in game is the active defense it has. It has the best active defense than any other class.

It has zero passive defense except on boon steals and the boons from stolen goods, so all defense is a challenge.

No stab, hardly any condi clear, thieves do a lot of damage and still will, but its still an active defense profession and will stay that way.

And if you look through this forum right now, you will see a lot of people complaining about the hits to that active defense they are taking.

Trust the people that play thieves, they are complaining because they know what it will do.

And this post is the result veteran thieves want. Please follow nightblood’s example.

nightblood.7910:

@ Toxsa.2701

I did the same thing you just did a while back, came into the thief forum and ran my mouth like an idiot about how OP thieves were because of stealth and damage and so on.

I got challenged to roll one, they are not that OP and can be very difficult to keep alive.

The biggest difference in this class than any other class in game is the active defense it has. It has the best active defense than any other class.

It has zero passive defense except on boon steals and the boons from stolen goods, so all defense is a challenge.

No stab, hardly any condi clear, thieves do a lot of damage and still will, but its still an active defense profession and will stay that way.

And if you look through this forum right now, you will see a lot of people complaining about the hits to that active defense they are taking.

Trust the people that play thieves, they are complaining because they know what it will do.

I have all classes lv80 for a long time and played them in pvp too. I am fully aware of the capability of thief. I think the current thief is fine. (Except the dire perplex one in WvW is abit OP)

What I’m talking about is the “NEW THIEF” they’re going to launch. Just look at the SA line… They’re bad enough before the patch, but with the limitation of stat and trait points they’re somewhat balanced. Now that line is just outright insane because thief doesn’t need to make choices anymore, they get everything from it, while always be able to pick that trait line too. Consider that, in conjunction with the removal of stat dependent on traits, and also consider now you can pick 3 full trait lines…