Guild Wars 2

The title states it. How is the profession doing in terms of leveling and in dungeons?

Leveling, not bad. But dungeons are a pain in the backside unless you run a shortbow or pistol mainhand build, or seriously stack toughness.

Thief for PvE is great. I run mass initiative and dual daggers and I kill 3-4 mobs that are 5+ lvls over me.
The dual skill with daggers is great because its attack + evade and if you have traits that give you more initiative then you can spam it so you never takes damage. It hurts when I get hit though

I run dual daggers/shortbow condition build stacking initiative regen traits, condition damage/vitality/healing.

It works amazing for killing groups of mobs, and so far I have been able to survive easily in dungeons, while still providing support via shadow refuge and blinding powder.

However I have yet to run the harder exploration mode dungeons, I recently hit 80.

hey, I’ve just met the thief class, and only pre 80.
But here’s my opinion
I’m “kitten” crazy

it changes lads, it really does

we have to choose wisely in our traits, and even then we’re squishy and get cheesed too much lol all indicative of bigger issues mind you but yeah… they “kittened” up our traits methinks :P and will continue to do so cos of SPVP

Don’t even bother with rolling thief for PvE. It’s easy to make a great PvP build and kill people almost instantly. But in PvE thief is unbelievably weak at higher levels.

You start out rather strong and around L30-L40 it really seems you’re going to be alright but after L60 you start to encounter hard hitting mobs that are very hard to kite and after L70 you have to fight those all the time.

Oh, and aquatic weapon skills are just a bad joke. Just compare to what other classes get.

Is what Prodigy saying true at the higher levels? Been having a blast now up to 20 with DD but hate the thought of having to kite at higher levels.

Thieves are doing good in pve at all levels. If you are getting hit too much try using some defensive traits and/or slot skills. And be mobile.

Amigo.5023:

Thieves are doing good in pve at all levels. If you are getting hit too much try using some defensive traits and/or slot skills. And be mobile.

/sigh “Be mobile” is just a different wording for “endless kitefest where you’re always one step away from downed”. Thieves aren’t doing good in PvE except maybe those who already have exceptionally good gear. Ironically they don’t need to do much PvE anymore.

Dunno about other class but thief only lacks in underwater combat. Since he got no aoe underwater except for a trail of poison. However, i have no problem farming with thieves at level 80 on land. I d/d and sb. backstab for 1 on 1. 1 on 2 i throw daggers. more than that sb.

prodigy.1023:

Amigo.5023:

Thieves are doing good in pve at all levels. If you are getting hit too much try using some defensive traits and/or slot skills. And be mobile.

/sigh “Be mobile” is just a different wording for “endless kitefest where you’re always one step away from downed”. Thieves aren’t doing good in PvE except maybe those who already have exceptionally good gear. Ironically they don’t need to do much PvE anymore.

The way of the thief;) else go guardian:D

prodigy.1023:

Amigo.5023:

Thieves are doing good in pve at all levels. If you are getting hit too much try using some defensive traits and/or slot skills. And be mobile.

/sigh “Be mobile” is just a different wording for “endless kitefest where you’re always one step away from downed”. Thieves aren’t doing good in PvE except maybe those who already have exceptionally good gear. Ironically they don’t need to do much PvE anymore.

Sorry but the Thief is definitly not for you.
I am a level 80 Thief and never had any problems at all, even handling 3+ enemies at once is not hard if you trait into condition damage (its spammy alright but you can take on quite alot of enemies if you do it right).
Using your Steal skill (traited with damage and initiative – maybe even poison) gives you a whole new field you can play in.

Running dungeons – now that is something i would like ANet to take a look into.
There is no way to stay longer than a few seconds in melee combat.
Its not bad running P/P and SB, i dont mind that. But i do mind if it isn’t even an option to play S/D or D/D or D/P in dungeons.

Also, doing quite alot of exploration dungeons i can say that having a Thief makes the whole thing so much easier…we got so many support skills that benefit the whole group – look at Smoke Screen or Shadow Refuge or (as a Sylvari) your seeds (mobs instanstly switch to your seeds if you drop them).

Do not sell the Thief short if you dont know what you are talking about.

We can support while doing ok’ish damage or we scratch support and go full burst mode with damage (and you will notice it if a good Thief stops doing his damage)

Our surviveability – in the case of getting OUT from somewhere – is without a doubt top notch. Warriors and Guardians might be able to “tank” mobs, but they got nothing once their CD’s are blown. As a Thief and a brain you still can go invisible or teleport away (Shortbow teleport, no CD, 900 range, cures a condition – do i need to say more?)

So all in all, we do have our downsides, every profession does. But stating that the Thief is worth nothing in endgame is a blatant lie.

Hope i could help and best regards

Thieves are great in PvE. So far I’ve found S/P to be the best/most efficient/easiest. The heal on attack heal skill is great because it ticks for every enemy you hit with every swing. With a little extra healing from your gear or traits this adds up. Not to mention the fact that while Pistol Whip is going you evade everything. It gets tough at 80, but totally doable. I can’t imagine there is a class that can just run around and perfectly solo any of that content.

For pve, vit and condition damage/duration

If you go for anything else, your gonna have a bad time

Winston.2489:

Thieves are great in PvE. So far I’ve found S/P to be the best/most efficient/easiest. The heal on attack heal skill is great because it ticks for every enemy you hit with every swing. With a little extra healing from your gear or traits this adds up. Not to mention the fact that while Pistol Whip is going you evade everything. It gets tough at 80, but totally doable. I can’t imagine there is a class that can just run around and perfectly solo any of that content.

There is none, I have a level 80 mesmer, and running through orr on my own is kitten suicide. But I like it that way because it is the endgame area

Prodigy is incorrect and likely simply hasn’t learned how to play a Thief effectively in the difficult PvE content.

To do well in endgame Dynamic Events and Explorable Mode dungeons you need to take full advantage of weapon swapping and the power of the Shortbow. A typical encounter in an explorable dungeon goes something like this:

- Start the pull with Shortbow and drop Choking Gas and plink away at mobs for the opening of the fight until the pull is relatively well controlled.
- once the pull is controlled swap to your melee weapons and go to work on the focus fire target set by your group. your damage in melee is much higher then at range, so waiting for the opportunity to get in and melee is well worth it.
- once the first target is down switch back to shortbow and repeat this process until the pull is done.

If you try playing a pure melee thief, you will struggle more than if you learn to use a lot of ranged attacks, especially with the shortbow.

This may not fit into many peoples “idea” of what the thief should be, but its how the game works. If you dont take advantage of it, its a much bigger struggle.

Imo, you can stay alive really easy as a thief, however, the elements that provide this are extremely boring. Things like:

Dagger/pistol: Just keep Blackpowder up, and auto attack things to death. You can solo Vets higher level than you often never taking ANY damage.

Sword/Pistol: Spam pistol Whip with auto attacks. Its cone aoe damage, it stuns frequently, often totally interrupting the targets attack, which helps you take very little damage.

Both those are things many thieves do to get through PvE content. Its boring imo.

The other thing many people dont specify. Playing a thief solo vs playing a thief with even ONE extra person, is an entirely different gameplay experience. With 1 additional person, you will feel like a amazing class. Not just dishing out damage, but providing all sorts of utility to your partner. You will also feel safer using gameplay and techniques that you otherwise would have avoided solo, for fear of dying too quickly (thanks to mobs not always focusing on you when you have a partner.)

As some have said above, if you PVE a thief don’t expect to melee much, if at all, higher level. Grab a short bow and don’t look back. If you want to melee it’s better to look at another class, unless you like to eat dirt repeatedly.

I melee just fine in dungeons. Death blossom 3-5 times, stack bleeds, then dodge out of melee, pop initiative regen/might stacking sigils, then roll in, death blossom 3-5 times, dodge out, roll for initiative out, rinse and repeat. I do tons of bleed damage to packs of mobs and single target.

You just have to be quick with your dodges, and make sure that if youre not dodging, youre evading with death blossom.

I do use shortbow a lot, but just saying, Im not really afraid to melee.

I disagree with ppl saying you must use shortbows… I’ve been doing P/D and daggers for as long as I can remember (now 75) and it does great DPS… You just need to improve your dodging and use initiatives efficiently.

Melee types like my thief improves drastically later on with
1) Signet of malice
2) Assassin’s reward
3) Dagger storm

The lifesteal is just ridiculous when facing multiple mobs… I find facing 5 mobs at once no prob now lol. The only prob is when you stop attacking because of disables, or when u run out of initiatives which can be prevented with steals and traits.

Use Black Powder + dagger storm combo to restore HP when there is a crowd. The blind makes them miss and signet of malice restores HP

My traits are on Critical Strikes, Acrobatics and Trickery

On another note, 20pts on both acrobatics and trickery enables you to dodge A LOT (bountiful thief trait + feline grace)

The Thief has fairly poor scaling all around, it is one of the only profession that is unable to solo a Veteran Giant in Orr, but it does not mean that it is all that terrible; if played well it can still do fine, there are just a few things that you cannot do, but this also means it just means that it is one of the harder if not the hardest profession to play well.

On world bosses, most of the solo PvE specs don’t work well at all, this is due to bosses only having a 25 stack bleed counter and poisons not stacking as well (this also applies to dungeon runs with other people who stack bleeds.

You can also build for good single target damage or AoE damage but not both at the same time. Death blossom for D/D is good AoE damage but the targeting is so sporadic that it is often not reliable. Short bow has great AoE damage and a Poison Field, however its single target damage is terrible. You can build a P/D build for AoE (range and throw daggers) or a P/P (rapid fire) for AoE using a Flame Sigil, however it relies on both your crit and a chance after you do crit, so its not reliable itself.

One thing to also consider is, many people on this forum post claim that they can take on 2-4 mobs at a time and while this is true, keep in mind that so can every other profession.

the answers above is of ppl who know how to play a thief and have learned how to and the ppl who dont know how to and dont care to try to learn how to play one. personally i have not problems with a thief and if u dont know how to dodge, kite, and plan ahead then u might want to find another game cuz u dont kill things and get thru things by just standing in one place.

I can’t say I’ve had any troubles with my primarily S/P thief (with SB or P/P depending on situation for when ranged is needed) in PVE, this goes both for soloing and for the explorable mode dungeons.

While it is true that some mobs/bosses in explorable dungeons are incredibly melee unfriendly, but that goes across the board for all professions and not just thieves. However, in most of the explorable dungeons you can melee a good chunk of the mobs & bosses as long as you take advantage of your abilities (such as Infiltrator’s Strike, Black Powder, Signet of Agility and Smoke Screen for example) and know when to dodge or back out/temporarily switch to ranged.

That being said though, as a thief your base HP is rather low so if you choose to spec purely for a glass cannon type of build traits+gear wise (something that a lot of thieves seem to do) don’t expect to have a great survivability when trying to melee in dungeons. Having a more balanced setup (tough+vit in addition to whichever damage stats you prefer) in my opinion anyway, will achieve a lot better results.

The biggest problem with thief in high-end PvE (like world bosses and dungeons) isn’t a really a thief problem at all but rather a graphical problem: Friendly Spell Effects. There’s so much KITTENFUR smoking and flaming and blowing up on the mob that you can’t tell if I’m facing his front or back, can’t tell if he’s charging up a one-hit-kill ability, hell, can’t even tell if you’re in melee range sometimes.

I’ve been playing S/P and D/D (would change to P/P sometimes) with a fully damage build(25/30/0/0/15) and didn’t have THAT much of problem until i faced CoF EM, or to be more accurate…the Legendary Effigy thingie… xD but yeah, have done storymodes and it’s been fair. just have to change my healing/utility/elite skills quite alot according to what is needed in fights.

Kind of rough so far. Level 49, and settling on a dagger/pistol and shortbow.

Dealing with more than one enemy at a time is often frustrating instead of challenging. Having the thieves guild ability really helps a lot, but still. The scorpion wire is extremely helpful and fun – when it works. Sometimes it just acts as a low damage projectile without the GET OVER HERE effect and that’s never good. I run out of initiative too fast when fighting veteran enemies so I can’t keep them blinded all the time. I may need to get better at figuring out when to dodge.

I’m staying away from double daggers because I hear some boss enemies heal on condition damage which is all they excel at. The sword/dagger is powerful, but the shadow step attack/return range is too short. If there were a way to cripple the enemy then it’d be a much better setup.

But I think I’m doing pretty well as a team player by using a shortbow and skale venom and once I get venomous aura I’ll be much more helpful by sharing skale and basilisk venom. I use shadow refuge to help downed players and always try to shoot through status effect circles.

I’m not even attempting dungeons because I’m not laying waste to everything I run into by myself, and the last thing I want is to be the guy who gets KO’d every 3 minutes.

im 80 and melee is certainly viable.just spec 25 into acrobatics and you can dodge about everything while stacking might and when endurance is below full you will do 10% more damage. i run 30 in crit strikes, 25 acro, and 15 trickery and can hit really hard with daggers and dodge most things, if some big one shot is coming then i just dodge away and that gives swiftness and i can be a wuss with p/p until i go in d/d again.

Dodge… everyone talks about dodging. I dont think people complaining about thief being hard, are noobs who dont dodge the big telegraphed attacks. Oh look, the ettin is raising his giant club and its making a sparkle effect, ill just stand here. I dont think this is happening. Most people, thief or not, see that and move out of the way.

Normal damage is what hurts me on my thief (when im not kiting with ranged). Lotus a group of 3 or 4 enemies, after 3 lotus attacks, im at 30% health. YES they still hit me despite the flipping animation. Sure, maybe a couple attacks get evaded by it, but im still always low health. By the time they are dead, im almost dead as well. Not an issue if there are no other enemies, but if I have to fight another set of enemies right after, im toast. (unless I stealth an run – which is always super fun, having to run away… not)

Thief has abilities to help them avoid damage. However, do to most having a 30+ second cooldown, these are NOT abilities you can use to plow through group after group of enemies. Especially if you can kill a group in 10 seconds, your needed abilities will still be on cooldown, meaning if you engage the next set of enemies, you wont have your damage mitigation.

If you just explore and pick your fights from the random spawned stuff scattered around the world, you wont have much troubles as a thief. Most spawns rarely have more than 2-3 enemies, and are often far enough from the next group that you wont have to run after the battle leaves you at less than half life. Howevever, as the game zones get higher in level, more and more of the things to do in zones, are events focusing on a LOT of big groups of enemies. Often in tight spaces. If there arent other players taking aggro and hits away from you, chances are even with your blinds and cripples and stealth, you will find yourself quickly overwhelmed and swarmed with no place to hide or run. (stealth does no good if you cant get far enough out of aggro range by the time it wears off)

I dont know why so many people feel the need to come and defend their ego and pride with comments like “I play just fine, its not broken, you just need to L2P”. The concept here isnt that thief is impossible to play. The concept is that whatever a player can accomplish on a thief, another player can accomplish a lot easier on any of the other classes. when it comes to PVE.

Aren’t warriors having a harder time dealing with multiple mobs? Some of their skills force them to stay in place while taking hard hits and they don’t have the mobility of thieves…

Warriors have heavy armor and a huge health pool. Also most of their melee attacks are AoE. Some of the thief skills require us to stay in place as well (namely our main AoE direct damage dealer), but we don’t have heavy armor or a huge health pool.

PVE is al about mobility and avoiding damage. I find D/D is very viable and quite easy if you have specced in trickery and acrobatics. Death blossom is probably the best skill for PVE by far. Forget shortbow, with death blossom you apply it for times while taking no damage then run around for a few secs and watch the mobs die. Also sigil of shadows is almost a must for thieves. Permanent 25% speed bonus, no mob can touch you.

Because death blossom is AOE is very easy to just gather all the regular mobs in the area, spam the ability and watch the xp grow. This of course works for regular mobs, on veterans you need to do a bit more kiting, but if you’re on acrobatics you can dodge very often and get a speed bonus as well so no prob. For damage against a single target P/P is definitely better with unload so just run around spamming unload against veterans and you’ll do fine

Also i find the elite thieves guild skill to be better suited in pve because more often then not those thieves draw the aggro so you can whack at the mobs with impunity.

Also because of shadow refuge, you don’t always have to fight that veteran/champion to get the chest, rich vein, or resurect someone. Just run up to it, ignore all the mobs, pop the stealth and loot/revive away then run. For some reason that stealth is alot more then 3 seconds it says on the tooltip (more like 6-7 seconds), i’m not sure if it’s a bug or intended.

Warriors have the game’s easy mode. They have the most HP, the heaviest armor, and a good selection of area effect attacks.

Them and guardians are pretty much all the game’s PvE is for.

supergica.8652:

Also because of shadow refuge, you don’t always have to fight that veteran/champion to get the chest, rich vein, or resurect someone. Just run up to it, ignore all the mobs, pop the stealth and loot/revive away then run. For some reason that stealth is alot more then 3 seconds it says on the tooltip (more like 6-7 seconds), i’m not sure if it’s a bug or intended.

Refuge gives you and others more time in stealth the longer you stay in the area you activated it in.

I did decent-to-very-well in PvE through and including at 80.

Sword/Pistol Black Powder spam works well in most every situation while leveling. Dagger/Pistol & Dagger/Dagger have their own benefits & avoidance mechanisms that you can use to stay alive & keep them dead.

That being said, I get wrecked in dungeons unless I run short bow 90% of the time. If I get into melee range I will be downed in 2 hits. 1 more hit kills me. This includes AoEs, some of which are hard to avoid or easy to miss the cues for in a clump of people and/or when the screen is a fireworks display of spell effects.

I put my talent points into DPS. I like by skills/talents so I don’t want to have to dump traits I think are beneficial to pick up some added survivability, so I was hoping to find gear that evened out my defenses. I haven’t, and am currently scrounging to get together a few Valkyrie pieces, or something, to help me survive.

At 80 I can kill singles anywhere easily. Vets I can burn down pretty too.

Zerg events against champs? I tend to stick to short bow again.

All in all though, I have a lot of fun on my thief. I just wish I brought more to the table in dungeons … I feel like a watered down Ranger.