Guild Wars 2

Bomb/Grenade Condi Engineers in close combat as a Sword Thief (S/P or S/D).

For example:
In maps such as Skyhammer the side points are very compact and you can’t really shadowstep effectively and the bombs/grenades seem to blow up everything. But in general any close combat situation.

I’ve been playing thief a looooooong time, but these types of Engineers are just awful to fight every time. Unless I COMPLETELY outplay them it feels like a massive struggle as everything they do blows up the area applying every condition available.

I just don’t feel like I can get close to them without getting hard hitting conditions on me such as burning, bleeds, chill and poison.

I would ask the Engineer forum, but I’d probably get told to L2P or that Engineer isn’t strong. If it really is a L2P issue then I would really like solid advice on this.

Thanks!

i hate to admit i have this problem too. i play p/d mainly right now…still win most of the time but i REALLY have to have them 1 v 1 or will prolly die/retreat. 1 set of grenade attack (1 attack aka multiple grenades) added only about 10% of my hp which is like 2k dmg but also added FIRE/POISON/BLEED on the same friggen attack. seems condi engies are a lil op right now. its kinda gross. just my opinion tho. they are solid all around…. but really amazing in adding everything in attack kitten nal.

try use sb or p/p more and stay back , abuse stealth

but agree with you they too much are hard to kill

to add bleed/burn/poison all on the same attack for AOE plus a few thousand in dmg is disgusting. they obviously have to prolly trait up for it but still. going invis is the worst thing bc then they deal dmg to u and u dont do anything. u ahve to be on full attack…use stuns blinds etc. even blinds are no good bc each b omb sets off 1 blind….so 1 might miss but 3 others hit u.

i dont use cnd as they just spam aoe around them so sure i would have got hit

i use utility stealth and try to suprise them with sb AA which immobilize than clusterbomb and poison field and AA or with p/p i use body shot and unload while dodging a lot
and again maybe 40% win chance
if its p/s engi with perplexity i am doomed

They have too much versatility in one build. High healing, access to invulnerability, perm immobs with their turrets, and what looks like the ability to apply every condition in the game with a single button.

Since they just run in circles dropping bombs, the only somewhat effective counter I’ve found is over-use of Sword 2 to immobilise them, get a couple of hits in, then infiltrator return when they start moving again. Of course, this will be nerfed next month… They’ll hate you for it, and often trash talk, but it’s repetition v repetition. It works well in locations where you can shadow step in and out to a retreat location that they can’t see, like the balcony in Khylo and some terrain in Foefire. They can counter it if they have a lot of knockbacks though. If you can take down at least half their health, then you can stealth, go to dagger+basilisk venom and hope for a couple of nice crits.

The easiest way to handle the typical engineer you are describing is with the S/D evasion build. I have found this is the absolute quickest and most reliable way to kill these kitten guys. Fighting most engis as a thief clearly illustrates just how hard we have to work to get something done:

If you try my advice, you’ll be using sword 2 and 3 alot and evading alot to minimize damage. Even so much as stalling until your heal is up by evading constantly to re-engage. While literally all the engineer is doing for most of the fight is I kid you not running in a circle dropping bombs while you most likely aren’t even on the screen most of the time, yet they still are doing a number on you. SB works well too to stay at range, but most competitive engi condi builds, (if they have a Pistol/ Shield combo expect a hard fight) have that insane burst healing they can dish out which can and usually will nullify your SB damage. DD thieves 9/10 will lose against a well played condi engi since they can and will drop aoe everywhere, they don’t need to target you. As I said, sword is your best bet solely because of 2 and 3 however it is not advised to spam these. And come Dec 10th I’ll most likely just avoid engineers. It’s crazy how they can burst grenades at you dealing pretty nice damage from the grenades alone, and then follow up with condi damage.

As an engi i can say the only times i die to a thief is either an insane burst from a d/d thief, when i dont block on time or a really well played s/d thief. S/d #3 is key imo for the boonstrip and evade. Also if you rely on stealth dont use the stolen ability since it rips you out of stealth.

I had some success duelling a bunker condi engi the other day, I was messing around with a 10/0/30/0/30 P/D condi build. I had to use the fact that he will sit in his turrets against him to win.

Try stealthing up with shadow refuge when he uses his supply crate, putting caltrops down under his turrets, then using thieves’ guild.
Stealth off the turrets when possible to confuse him & remove conditions, and alternate between sneak attack and shadow strike to keep condi pressure up while your thieves CC him.

You can also steal from him and use the goo with dancing dagger to apply stupid amounts of confusion to him, since this will bounce off the turrets for extra stacks. With the amount of skills they use and the lack of condi clean they have, this is ludicrously effective.

Most importantly, keep moving! Attack from different directions, and change tactics every few seconds to stop them predicting your movements. It’s still a very hard fight though, even when you play perfectly :/

Pretty much use ranged or u will almost always lose cause of the aoe spams.

You have gotten some good suggestions in this thread.

I would have to say the high toughness, and high number of condition applier builds are pretty much OP at the moment, which includes some Engi builds.

Since this thread starts with “How do I beat…” I was wondering if I could throw in my own request/question out there.

I consider myself a pretty good thief as well, but have come into a snag when fighting certain Mesmer builds. Mainly the high toughness, high condition applier builds (like this one https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-The-Blackwater-Mesmer-Condition-WvW/page/7#post3248822).

Does anyone have any advice for fighting and beating a Mesmer that uses this build or something similar? (using any weapon set but P/D).

Momekic.8603:

You have gotten some good suggestions in this thread.

I would have to say the high toughness, and high number of condition applier builds are pretty much OP at the moment, which includes some Engi builds.

Since this thread starts with “How do I beat…” I was wondering if I could throw in my own request/question out there.

I consider myself a pretty good thief as well, but have come into a snag when fighting certain Mesmer builds. Mainly the high toughness, high condition applier builds (like this one https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-The-Blackwater-Mesmer-Condition-WvW/page/7#post3248822).

Does anyone have any advice for fighting and beating a Mesmer that uses this build or something similar? (using any weapon set but P/D).

I have dueled against that build (or close to it) against 1 person in wvw using D/D and won 2/4 fights against him. The key (w/ D/D) was to try to CnD him a couple of times without a backstab thrown in then transition to burst when he got low. I had both blind and remove conditions in stealth and that kept the confusion at bay. You can CnD off the clones too since a lot of the current builds don’t like to shatter them, but you miss out on the 4k hit to him. The trick I’ve found lately when fighting as a thief is to not get yourself revealed (against good players) until you think you can finish them off in that time period.

D/P seems superior in terms of defense, but it gives people longer windows and takes more initiative to kill people. It also doesn’t put quite as much pressure on you opponent. D/D also won’t be feeling the nerfbat this round (depending on your build/playstyle).

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I had some success duelling a bunker condi engi the other day, I was messing around with a 10/0/30/0/30 P/D condi build. I had to use the fact that he will sit in his turrets against him to win.

Try stealthing up with shadow refuge when he uses his supply crate, putting caltrops down under his turrets, then using thieves’ guild.
Stealth off the turrets when possible to confuse him & remove conditions, and alternate between sneak attack and shadow strike to keep condi pressure up while your thieves CC him.

You can also steal from him and use the goo with dancing dagger to apply stupid amounts of confusion to him, since this will bounce off the turrets for extra stacks. With the amount of skills they use and the lack of condi clean they have, this is ludicrously effective.

Most importantly, keep moving! Attack from different directions, and change tactics every few seconds to stop them predicting your movements. It’s still a very hard fight though, even when you play perfectly :/

Sorry, just realised you were asking about sword strategy. Just ignore the above lol :P

Skyhammer is a map that favors Engineers—they can bunker down on the points where there is very little room to maneuver, and they have a variety of ways to upset the positioning of other players.

Try the Scorpion Wire trick: stand on one of the blue tiles, SW the engi to you, and then immediately dodge roll forward. If everything goes according to plan they should fall to their death, no fight necessary.

Momekic.8603:

You have gotten some good suggestions in this thread.

I would have to say the high toughness, and high number of condition applier builds are pretty much OP at the moment, which includes some Engi builds.

Since this thread starts with “How do I beat…” I was wondering if I could throw in my own request/question out there.

I consider myself a pretty good thief as well, but have come into a snag when fighting certain Mesmer builds. Mainly the high toughness, high condition applier builds (like this one https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-The-Blackwater-Mesmer-Condition-WvW/page/7#post3248822).

Does anyone have any advice for fighting and beating a Mesmer that uses this build or something similar? (using any weapon set but P/D).

I have a PU condi mesmer and from experience i can tell you that i have not lost a single 1on1 against a thief. 95% of the time i dont even have to try… but then again 95% of the time i dont even have to try against any class / spec on my mesmer…

If the mesmer is decent all you can do is run away… there is not a single thief build out there that can effectively beat it. I always foundf that to be funny, People Keep complaining about op thieves but then again there are specs like this which nobody seems to care abt even tho they are borderline broken. (talking WvW here)

nobody complains because that mesmer spec is not viable in tpvp. too much stealth to hold a point, no grp utility, too slow to roam. in wvw you can troll ppl with it, but as soon as someone decides to ignore you, he can just walk away and you will never catch him.
i love my thief, i almost exclusive play thief, but truth is…most proffesions /specs can not run away from a bursty thief.

Domey.9804:

nobody complains because that mesmer spec is not viable in tpvp. too much stealth to hold a point, no grp utility, too slow to roam. in wvw you can troll ppl with it, but as soon as someone decides to ignore you, he can just walk away and you will never catch him.
i love my thief, i almost exclusive play thief, but truth is…most proffesions /specs can not run away from a bursty thief.

0 30 30 10 0 is not viable in tpvp either …

i agree tho, its, much easier to run away from a condi mesmer than it is from a thief… but then again its much easier to kill the thief than the mesmer…