Guild Wars 2

1200 range is the de facto standard range around which everything is balanced.

The recent implementation of new fractals and the corresponding new encounters further cement that.

Thieves already had very little going for them in terms of Fractal progression and now the 900 range limit is becoming a real issue. Our range DPS options are limited as it is and I don’t see how ANet can continue justifying limiting Thieves to 900 range.

Two of the three new final encounters practically require ranged DPS and the range is a real issue here.

I mean in WvW we can barely shoot down a wall and in Fractals we can’t reach bosses because of all the kiting required. How is that fair and acceptable?

At least the Pistols could do with 1200 range as they don’t have much going for them.

Hey, please tell us what you’re even talking about? You just rush and say bad bad bad bad bad bad and does not even say the name of the thing you talk about…

Big Tower.5423:

Hey, please tell us what you’re even talking about? You just rush and say bad bad bad bad bad bad and does not even say the name of the thing you talk about…

He’s talking about the fact thieves lack any ranged weapon with a range over 900 and all the problems that come up with this fact.

that’s because anet want thieves to play more aggressively

do you remember when SB had 1200 range? all thieves use clusterbomb from range and ppl QQ they cannot hit them fast so anet nerf it to 900 so basically thieves only spam it on 130 range to control area

i agree as all classes have 1200 range weapon (even warriors) so should we

now im completely in agreement that 900 range in pvp/wvw is unacceptable but why would we need 1200 range for pve? there isnt a single boss that requires 1200, in fact normally its much more effective and efficient if your within 500-600 range and you specifically mentioned new fractal encounters, ive done the berserker/firestorm and mai trin but not the 3rd and both berserker/firestorm and mai trin both benefit from medium range and at least mai trin is made infinitely harder if you try to stand outside 700 range (rough guesstimate probably between 600-900)

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

Big Tower.5423:

Hey, please tell us what you’re even talking about? You just rush and say bad bad bad bad bad bad and does not even say the name of the thing you talk about…

I’d also add that he’s likely talking, more specifically, about Cluster Bomb, which used to have 1200 range (our only weapon skill that had it), but got its range nerfed to 900 out of nowhere. Just another ridiculous and absurd balance change, made by, yours truly, ArenaNet.

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Some bosses are almost impossible to melee because their melee attacks allow them to 1-shot you often.

Arganthium.5638:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Some bosses are almost impossible to melee because their melee attacks allow them to 1-shot you often.

thats why the dodge button was invented or why a guardian spams aegis and even adding that in, its still more efficient to melee every boss in the game

>>thats why the dodge button was invented or why a guardian spams aegis and even adding that in, its still more efficient to melee every boss in the game

Not so. If you measure damage over time and survivabity, (you do no damage dead) ranged is superior in many encounters. The first that come to mind of course the dragons or that boss fight with the flame legion shaman.

It’s not acceptable. o.O No one accepts it~ except Anet I guess. But they don’t play or test Thief beyond The Mist training zone so it doesn’t matter to them.

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Some bosses are almost impossible to melee because their melee attacks allow them to 1-shot you often.

thats why the dodge button was invented or why a guardian spams aegis and even adding that in, its still more efficient to melee every boss in the game

Pfft, Dodging reduces DPS. That’s why you make a 5 Zerker Guardian/Warrior group.

May I trade my Guardian scepter for your thief short bow?

Eloquence.5207:

May I trade my Guardian scepter for your thief short bow?

While I would certainly agree that the guardian should have some better ranged options, I’d also like to mention that the scepter is perfectly fine for WvW as compared to, say, sPvP. Even if you don’t hit your target, you’ll hit something, which is often more than we can hope for (unless we pull off some trick involving, for example, hitting a mosquito with trick shot and allowing the arrow to bounce off and hit an enemy). Smite and Chains of Light are both pretty good, and they reach up to 1200 distance. CoL, in fact, can be used to transition into a melee fight.

There are also weapons like the focus, staff, and hammer that have options that allow you to hit an enemy at 1200 range.

Thieves have absolutely nothing that allows them to hit at 1200 range.

Either way, I may have ranted on a bit; the discussion shouldn’t be about improving guard’s scepter or thief’s range, but about fixing both.

Eloquence.5207:

May I trade my Guardian scepter for your thief short bow?

Scepter is powerful. o.O and you don’t need to go into stealth to immobilize someone.

Meh. It’s downright offensive that this is still an issue. If nothing else, at least (once they get to adding more weapons) toss Thieves a 1200 range option. Makes no sense to be the only frigging class without such a thing.

1200 on cluster is needed. 900 is useless i dont use my dreamer anymore in wvw…..or pve. its so slow and short ranged id rather use p/p. i hate SB bc of cluster bomb and the loss of heat seeker. they need to speed up auto attacks on pistol and sb and make head shot/cluster bomb / body shot 1200 range. period.

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Run all fractals @ level 40 without using ranged weapons and color me impressed.

Until then ranged weapons are a mandatory element of PvE many encounters.

You can argue about what’s necessary and what’s not since most of the stuff in this game is either easy or doesn’t punish you for failure.

But still a Thief loses quite a bit of his DPS due to his 900 range limitation. And I just don’t see any justification for it.

Dee Jay.2460:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Run all fractals @ level 40 without using ranged weapons and color me impressed.

Until then ranged weapons are a mandatory element of PvE many encounters.

You can argue about what’s necessary and what’s not since most of the stuff in this game is either easy or doesn’t punish you for failure.

But still a Thief loses quite a bit of his DPS due to his 900 range limitation. And I just don’t see any justification for it.

theres absolutely no excuse for not meleeing below 50, ive been as high as 64 and the only boss in fractals i range is legendary grawl shaman  
edit: that was b4 fractal change

Dee Jay.2460:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Run all fractals @ level 40 without using ranged weapons and color me impressed.

Until then ranged weapons are a mandatory element of PvE many encounters.

You can argue about what’s necessary and what’s not since most of the stuff in this game is either easy or doesn’t punish you for failure.

But still a Thief loses quite a bit of his DPS due to his 900 range limitation. And I just don’t see any justification for it.

my thief with only 30ar used to run old fotm48 70%+ melee and never died once(only switch to my main for maw)
oh and i love melee bosses.
range attacks is required, but 1200 is not required. tell me why 900 range limit its dps? i don’t remember any fight i have to get out of 900 range, and i’ve done hundreds and hundreds of fotm.

Lighter.5631:

Dee Jay.2460:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Run all fractals @ level 40 without using ranged weapons and color me impressed.

Until then ranged weapons are a mandatory element of PvE many encounters.

You can argue about what’s necessary and what’s not since most of the stuff in this game is either easy or doesn’t punish you for failure.

But still a Thief loses quite a bit of his DPS due to his 900 range limitation. And I just don’t see any justification for it.

my thief with only 30ar used to run old fotm48 70%+ melee and never died once(only switch to my main for maw)
oh and i love melee bosses.
range attacks is required, but 1200 is not required. tell me why 900 range limit its dps? i don’t remember any fight i have to get out of 900 range, and i’ve done hundreds and hundreds of fotm.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNBeBPZoQKg

Doggie.3184:

Lighter.5631:

Dee Jay.2460:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Run all fractals @ level 40 without using ranged weapons and color me impressed.

Until then ranged weapons are a mandatory element of PvE many encounters.

You can argue about what’s necessary and what’s not since most of the stuff in this game is either easy or doesn’t punish you for failure.

But still a Thief loses quite a bit of his DPS due to his 900 range limitation. And I just don’t see any justification for it.

my thief with only 30ar used to run old fotm48 70%+ melee and never died once(only switch to my main for maw)
oh and i love melee bosses.
range attacks is required, but 1200 is not required. tell me why 900 range limit its dps? i don’t remember any fight i have to get out of 900 range, and i’ve done hundreds and hundreds of fotm.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNBeBPZoQKg

that made so many sense, so many

Lighter.5631:

Doggie.3184:

Lighter.5631:

Dee Jay.2460:

Clumsy.6257:

Arganthium.5638:

1200 range is necessary in all game modes if only because it helps you do what flanking is meant to do: get you away from melee enemies while still dealing some degree of damage, and possibly causing your enemy to overextend or flee.

1200 range is very unnecessary in pve, im all for forcing everyone to have a max of 600 range in pve

Run all fractals @ level 40 without using ranged weapons and color me impressed.

Until then ranged weapons are a mandatory element of PvE many encounters.

You can argue about what’s necessary and what’s not since most of the stuff in this game is either easy or doesn’t punish you for failure.

But still a Thief loses quite a bit of his DPS due to his 900 range limitation. And I just don’t see any justification for it.

my thief with only 30ar used to run old fotm48 70%+ melee and never died once(only switch to my main for maw)
oh and i love melee bosses.
range attacks is required, but 1200 is not required. tell me why 900 range limit its dps? i don’t remember any fight i have to get out of 900 range, and i’ve done hundreds and hundreds of fotm.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNBeBPZoQKg

that made so many sense, so many

Thief being the only class left out of the 1200 club is just racist.

If 1200 range is unnecessary, then why do most other professions have it? Shouldn’t they be nerfed down to 900 range as well?

anet doesn’t play thieves nor cares

look at patch notes heh

inb4 link to new fractals preview, the guy spent entire video as corpse on the floor

I don’t miss the 1200 range in Cluster Bomb, since the projectile speed is so low I’m rarely using it even at 900 max range. With current range it can still hit the top of keep walls in wvw, but camera angle problems are a minor usability issue when having to stand that close to the wall. However the small 240 blast radius means you cannot hit any strategically placed siege in any case, so more range would be of little practical use.

I’d rather take increased projectile velocity and/or attack speed over range increase. Trick Shot is advertised as ¼ second, but in reality shoots 0.95 attacks per second with annoyingly slow projectile speed. Add 1200 range to Trick Shot and you could fire a shot to max range and stop to have a lunch break before it hits.

Just change class, thief has been nerfed to ground and it is not coming back. The class is still as buggy as it gets and im afraid that the next patch is coming with even more nerfs. I remember when the SB nerf came, the devs were promising us boost at the time. After that i rolled another class and i dont regret it. Kinda sad though, I poured hundreds of hours in to my thief… Enough is enough.

Arganthium.5638:

If 1200 range is unnecessary, then why do most other professions have it? Shouldn’t they be nerfed down to 900 range as well?

Exactly. If 1200 isn’t necessary why would warrior or guard have 1200? And I’m not saying to take it away from them, but give thief a similar option. I want to kill the tentacles in fractals and hit the freaking oil in charr fractal, i want to be able to attack a tower without compromising my behind with bad camera angles. Omg I want heat seeking back!

Lady Minuit.3186:

Arganthium.5638:

If 1200 range is unnecessary, then why do most other professions have it? Shouldn’t they be nerfed down to 900 range as well?

Exactly. If 1200 isn’t necessary why would warrior or guard have 1200? And I’m not saying to take it away from them, but give thief a similar option. I want to kill the tentacles in fractals and hit the freaking oil in charr fractal, i want to be able to attack a tower without compromising my behind with bad camera angles. Omg I want heat seeking back!

sorry my friend, tentacles can be killed without 1200 range, in fact 900 range is enough to not be hit and hit it, oh and i melee only those things on my thief, just saying.
what are you talking about oil, i never had a problem hitting oil with my sb, plus its aoe that bounces on multiple targets make it even easier to take out 3 of them on main gate. really?

complain about having bad camera angles when attacking a tower? its like other classes saying why can’t they walk through enemy zerg like its nothing.

also your argument make no sense, engis doesnt have signets, “if it isn’t necessary why everyone else have” and warrior doesn’t have skills that summon AIs/NPCs, “if it isn’t necessary why everyone else have”.

Lighter.5631:

Lady Minuit.3186:

Arganthium.5638:

If 1200 range is unnecessary, then why do most other professions have it? Shouldn’t they be nerfed down to 900 range as well?

Exactly. If 1200 isn’t necessary why would warrior or guard have 1200? And I’m not saying to take it away from them, but give thief a similar option. I want to kill the tentacles in fractals and hit the freaking oil in charr fractal, i want to be able to attack a tower without compromising my behind with bad camera angles. Omg I want heat seeking back!

sorry my friend, tentacles can be killed without 1200 range, in fact 900 range is enough to not be hit and hit it, oh and i melee only those things on my thief, just saying.
what are you talking about oil, i never had a problem hitting oil with my sb, plus its aoe that bounces on multiple targets make it even easier to take out 3 of them on main gate. really?

complain about having bad camera angles when attacking a tower? its like other classes saying why can’t they walk through enemy zerg like its nothing.

also your argument make no sense, engis doesnt have signets, “if it isn’t necessary why everyone else have” and warrior doesn’t have skills that summon AIs/NPCs, “if it isn’t necessary why everyone else have”.

Well, answer this, then: why should you get 1200 range, and we shouldn’t? Shouldn’t we all be limited to 900 range, then?

Lighter.5631:

Lady Minuit.3186:

Arganthium.5638:

If 1200 range is unnecessary, then why do most other professions have it? Shouldn’t they be nerfed down to 900 range as well?

Exactly. If 1200 isn’t necessary why would warrior or guard have 1200? And I’m not saying to take it away from them, but give thief a similar option. I want to kill the tentacles in fractals and hit the freaking oil in charr fractal, i want to be able to attack a tower without compromising my behind with bad camera angles. Omg I want heat seeking back!

sorry my friend, tentacles can be killed without 1200 range, in fact 900 range is enough to not be hit and hit it, oh and i melee only those things on my thief, just saying.
what are you talking about oil, i never had a problem hitting oil with my sb, plus its aoe that bounces on multiple targets make it even easier to take out 3 of them on main gate. really?

complain about having bad camera angles when attacking a tower? its like other classes saying why can’t they walk through enemy zerg like its nothing.

also your argument make no sense, engis doesnt have signets, “if it isn’t necessary why everyone else have” and warrior doesn’t have skills that summon AIs/NPCs, “if it isn’t necessary why everyone else have”.

If you’re doing the tentacles properly at high level your group will want you to stand in a certain spot so you don’t aggro the other monsters, hence the 1200 necessary.

For the oil you can hit it with 900 but again that means everyone Guardian included gets to stands safely behind me while I pour the oil on myself, hence 1200 much better and safer.

Not sure what you mean by bad camera angles is like a zerg? But indeed if you have only 900 you’ll have to hug the wall almost to hit the top so you won’t see well you’re surroundings, hence the 1200 which makes it much better.

Now the signets on engies really? This isn’t the talk here. Not having signet isn’t game breaking as they have other utilities doing the same things, though I would agree they should have perma running buff like everyone other than kit swapping.

The truth is, nevermind what I said, there it’s no valid reason not to have 1200 option like Everyone else, and if you don’t agree it’s fine, but that’s not my opinion, as I see everyday reasons why it’s necessary.

It’s not acceptable. Period.

Either every class is capable of 1200, or no class is. That is the be all, end all of the argument.

While in process of fixing that, make P/x not terrible as well.

hehehehe

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenadier
1500 range

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Short_bow
900-1000 range

logic demands grenade distance to be reduced to 600

I want I want i want. All those precious tears. What else do you want. Autoattack 100k damage at least I guess.
I’d like permastealth for all my characters all time even when attacking. And a few Dragon pets of course.

Thief class should be the one witch stucks in your face and crashes you onto the ground if you can’t deflect he/she.

GW1’s ASSASSINS were so mutch better… They had the need for skill to play.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Thief class should be the one witch stucks in your face and crashes you onto the ground if you can’t deflect he/she.

GW1’s ASSASSINS were so mutch better… They had the need for skill to play.

can you rephrase this in english please

MiniMe.1960:

I want I want i want. All those precious tears. What else do you want. Autoattack 100k damage at least I guess.
I’d like permastealth for all my characters all time even when attacking. And a few Dragon pets of course.

Because wanting the capability to use ranged weapons at the same distance as other classes is the same as wanting a super, hyper, ultra buff way out of line with everything.

Take your pathetic hyperbole somewhere else. I don’t think I’ll be able to take any post you ever make seriously after that.

Auesis.7301:

MiniMe.1960:

I want I want i want. All those precious tears. What else do you want. Autoattack 100k damage at least I guess.
I’d like permastealth for all my characters all time even when attacking. And a few Dragon pets of course.

Because wanting the capability to use ranged weapons at the same distance as other classes is the same as wanting a super, hyper, ultra buff way out of line with everything.

Take your pathetic hyperbole somewhere else. I don’t think I’ll be able to take any post you ever make seriously after that.

yeah that was pretty pathetic and nonsensical. fairness= OP? wow thats a stretch. what a troll he was.

so why does the most mobile class in the game need 1200 range again?
you already get 1500 steal range to close distance and plenty of tricks to move around and evade…. if anything it should be lowered to 750-800 to compensate for that

Stalima.5490:

so why does the most mobile class in the game need 1200 range again?
you already get 1500 steal range to close distance and plenty of tricks to move around and evade…. if anything it should be lowered to 750-800 to compensate for that

if you steal into a giant zerg its instadeath

Clumsy.6257:

Stalima.5490:

so why does the most mobile class in the game need 1200 range again?
you already get 1500 steal range to close distance and plenty of tricks to move around and evade…. if anything it should be lowered to 750-800 to compensate for that

if you steal into a giant zerg its instadeath

Working as intended, teleporting loot bags.
Soon we will die on sight and they will receive loot automatically.

Please, think about it… it’s a gap closer. Having 1200 range means something else….

Clumsy.6257:

Stalima.5490:

so why does the most mobile class in the game need 1200 range again?
you already get 1500 steal range to close distance and plenty of tricks to move around and evade…. if anything it should be lowered to 750-800 to compensate for that

if you steal into a giant zerg its instadeath

Also pretty useless for bombarding a wall or pulling. Plus if you don’t trait for it it’s only 900. But again death or inappropriate for most situations not involving chasing someone.

Travlane.5948:

Auesis.7301:

MiniMe.1960:

I want I want i want. All those precious tears. What else do you want. Autoattack 100k damage at least I guess.
I’d like permastealth for all my characters all time even when attacking. And a few Dragon pets of course.

Because wanting the capability to use ranged weapons at the same distance as other classes is the same as wanting a super, hyper, ultra buff way out of line with everything.

Take your pathetic hyperbole somewhere else. I don’t think I’ll be able to take any post you ever make seriously after that.

yeah that was pretty pathetic and nonsensical. fairness= OP? wow thats a stretch. what a troll he was.

all I hear is mimimi.

Stalima.5490:

so why does the most mobile class in the game need 1200 range again?
you already get 1500 steal range to close distance and plenty of tricks to move around and evade…. if anything it should be lowered to 750-800 to compensate for that

Warrior is the most mobile class. Steal doesn’t let you fight from a distance.. o.O
Trickery and evasion builds will be totally destroyed into the dirt Dec 10 patch and your post generally has nothing to do with range weapons and I consider it spam.

tbh till this game will be a silly bunker meta with brainless aoe cc spam and everyone can be faster than thieves (it’s obviusly an exageration, don’t start QQing about that pls), yeah i want 1200 range

Honestly the 900 range AA had to be an oversight. At least I hope it is. I’d prefer ineptitude over maliciousness any day.