Guild Wars 2

I got hit by ~14k damage by a backstab in a 1v1 roaming situation(wvw) without any invulnerability. I’m sure this opponent can’t have 25 stack might in a solo situation because there were no other ppl around. I have 2830 armor + 20780 hp. Just how is this possible ?

I also have a fully geared critical damage based(p.t.crit) backstab thief and barely see 7-8k+ dmg to glass cannons(with 100%+ crit damage and 3400+ power), and in this situation I’m not a glass cannon. Are they doing this with a bug/glitch or completely legit?
(maybe like ele’s tornado+meteor bug?)

you can get 25 might stacks from signet build IIRC.

Excalibur.9748:

you can get 25 might stacks from signet build IIRC.

Is there a link for this build? I wanna give it a try
I’m sure classes with lower hp will always get one shotted with a damage like this.

Excalibur.9748:

you can get 25 might stacks from signet build IIRC.

5*4 = 20 might stacks, you could use improvisation to recharge them but its not guaranteed, also 14k really isn’t that high, more than likely the thief was running a glass build with minimal buffs

I got hit by a 12.something k backstab today initiated by 2,9k mug and 7k cnd, I got 2.6k toughness. The other thief did not have might nor did she have bloodlust stacks.

I do not think this is possible under normal circumstances, go figure…

there was someone flying around our wvw and moving from supply camp to castles in a blink of a eye i would have reported him but i could not click and have time to report he was moving so fast!
and the only way u even knew he was there was a lil blur but the name tag stuck out
it was insane …… nothing is impossible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can get 22 if you have venoms give might aswell.

Or a simple might on weapon swap sigil or might on dodge. Might also can come from might on stealth.

hi again,

so I have been testing a bit, 4 signets might etc. under normal circumstances I do not see that kind of damage happening.

However if I use Critical Haste for some reason sometimes in wvw this proc also increasesthe damage not just the speed of attacks, I had hits almost 2x as hard as usual when this happens.

This might be a bug, would be awesome if you guys could post some feedback if you had that happen aswell.

14k does seem abnormally high for a WvW Thief build, even if he was a glass cannon.

I don’t think Might stacks are really a factor here as every Might stacking build sacrifices DPS in other areas.

Even a 25/30/0/0/15 build, which is pretty rare in WvW would have a hard time hitting those numbers.

It might be possible with a Scholar Runes, full Bloodlust stacks, full Guard stacks a few Might stacks and a few stacks of Vulnerability. But it seems a bit of a stretch.

If you add Assassins Singet_ into that mix then yeah, 14k might well be possible.

Bazzoong.7145:

hi again,

so I have been testing a bit, 4 signets might etc. under normal circumstances I do not see that kind of damage happening.

However if I use Critical Haste for some reason sometimes in wvw this proc also increasesthe damage not just the speed of attacks, I had hits almost 2x as hard as usual when this happens.

This might be a bug, would be awesome if you guys could post some feedback if you had that happen aswell.

I’ll give it a try with my thief. If it was against a glass cannon build, I could easily say that these damages are normal. But even with 20-25 stack might it doesn’t seem very possible to me for a target with high/very high amount of armor. But ofc. I’m not sure if it’s legitimately possible, this is why I created this thread. If it’s possible, this build can one shot all low health classes (including guardians without vitality stat). I’ll also try a signet might build for backstab action in wvw. If you have a good one please share with me

When i was testing in HoTM i ran a 30/30/0/0/10 signet build. With 50 odd % crit dmg i hit the heavy golem for 12k with this build. If you factor in ascended dagger and another 50+% CD 14k doesnt seem unreasonable even against high armor target.

Is also possible if they stunned you to add another 20% dmg on top of that with sigils of impact.

^
I used a mix of zerker and val gear, build was 30/30/0/0/10

I went all out max damage…
III IV IX
II X XII
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-
V

As I said even with 22 stacks of might guard leech food buff and sharpening stone I did not get those numbers consistently.

Only with the weird haste stuff happening I was able to go beyond 10k bs, but some time my damage just skyrocketed for no reason I could see usually with haste up, 3k 3k 3k skill1 attack chain etc. (really weirs stuff).

Honestly I do not recommend those kind of builds, they are totally one dimensional and usually do not work, you basically pop everything and hop in if you get lucky your opponent gets lag and you down him in like 3-4 sec or faster, but then you are in deep kitten even stomping becomes a problem.

Mind I used ascended weapon…

In the mist on the heavy golem I never got past 11k bs, never past 4.2k cnd, I do not see 7k+ cnd happening, something seems a bit fishy here.

I keep editing:

4 signets used includeing assassins signet bsilisk venom used, 22 stacks etc.

There are a few ways thieves can stack past 20 might.

Shadow Trap = 10 stacks
25 Shadow Arts and 4 stealth combos = 8 stacks
25 Shadow Arts and 3 stealth combos + Shadow Trap stealth = 8 stacks
25 Shadow Arts and use Shadow Refuge = 8 stacks
Trait 2 stacks of might per venom: Basilisk, Skelk, Scale, Devourer = 8 stacks
Trait 5 stacks of might on signet use: Assasin’s, Infiltrator’s, Shadows, Malice = 20 stacks

Mix and match and you get get past 20:
- 4 signets + basilisk venom = 20 + 2 = 22 stacks
- 25 SA 4 stealths + 3 signets = 8 + 15 = 23 stacks
- 25 SA 4 stealths + shadow trap + 3 venoms = 8 + 10 + 6 = 24 stacks
- 3 signets + shadow trap = 15+10 = 25 stacks

On top of that, you get fury from shadow trap, and if you’re using signets don’t forget to factor in the +15% damage for the next 5 attacks from assassin’s signet.

Just hopped into HoTM, was doing roughly 10k backstabs with scholar runes/no sigils.
58% CD, must have had executioner on when i hit 12k.

edit: with 20 might stacks on.

MyCondolences.8172:

Just hopped into HoTM, was doing roughly 10k backstabs with scholar runes/no sigils.
58% CD, must have had executioner on when i hit 12k.

edit: with 20 might stacks on.

I’ve tried 25 30 0 0 10 build with venom+signet might, scholar runes, force+fire sigil plus 15% crit dmg from signet.
In hotm I can’t get past 8200-9000 dmg. What else do you use to pass 10k+ border ?

^ add sigil of force x2

Dee Jay.2460:

14k does seem abnormally high for a WvW Thief build, even if he was a glass cannon.

I don’t think Might stacks are really a factor here as every Might stacking build sacrifices DPS in other areas.

Even a 25/30/0/0/15 build, which is pretty rare in WvW would have a hard time hitting those numbers.

It might be possible with a Scholar Runes, full Bloodlust stacks, full Guard stacks a few Might stacks and a few stacks of Vulnerability. But it seems a bit of a stretch.

If you add Assassins Singet_ into that mix then yeah, 14k might well be possible.

I hit a 6k mug in wvw with full signets, ruby orbs. no bloodlust/gaurd stacks so i’m gona go ahead and say its very much possible XD

Impact.2780:

There are a few ways thieves can stack past 20 might.

Shadow Trap = 10 stacks
25 Shadow Arts and 4 stealth combos = 8 stacks
25 Shadow Arts and 3 stealth combos + Shadow Trap stealth = 8 stacks
25 Shadow Arts and use Shadow Refuge = 8 stacks
Trait 2 stacks of might per venom: Basilisk, Skelk, Scale, Devourer = 8 stacks
Trait 5 stacks of might on signet use: Assasin’s, Infiltrator’s, Shadows, Malice = 20 stacks

Mix and match and you get get past 20:
- 4 signets + basilisk venom = 20 + 2 = 22 stacks
- 25 SA 4 stealths + 3 signets = 8 + 15 = 23 stacks
- 25 SA 4 stealths + shadow trap + 3 venoms = 8 + 10 + 6 = 24 stacks
- 3 signets + shadow trap = 15+10 = 25 stacks

On top of that, you get fury from shadow trap, and if you’re using signets don’t forget to factor in the +15% damage for the next 5 attacks from assassin’s signet.

if you put 25 into SA to get more might then you just sacrificed 100 power and 5% damage or 10% crit damage and executioner and you’ll hit considerably lower

x Charlie.4820:

Dee Jay.2460:

14k does seem abnormally high for a WvW Thief build, even if he was a glass cannon.

I don’t think Might stacks are really a factor here as every Might stacking build sacrifices DPS in other areas.

Even a 25/30/0/0/15 build, which is pretty rare in WvW would have a hard time hitting those numbers.

It might be possible with a Scholar Runes, full Bloodlust stacks, full Guard stacks a few Might stacks and a few stacks of Vulnerability. But it seems a bit of a stretch.

If you add Assassins Singet_ into that mix then yeah, 14k might well be possible.

I hit a 6k mug in wvw with full signets, ruby orbs. no bloodlust/gaurd stacks so i’m gona go ahead and say its very much possible XD

Thanks for the screenshot, I find that one interesting, especially the combat log.

You hit for 1.6 k with steal do a cnd bs combo 4,someting k 6,something k and then hit with steal again for over 6k.

Your damage seems quite normal except for one the abnormally high mug/steal. Especially since mug can not crit.

I smell a bug I dub it “accidental double damage” would not be the 1st mmo with this kind of bug.

Bazzoong.7145:

x Charlie.4820:

Dee Jay.2460:

14k does seem abnormally high for a WvW Thief build, even if he was a glass cannon.

I don’t think Might stacks are really a factor here as every Might stacking build sacrifices DPS in other areas.

Even a 25/30/0/0/15 build, which is pretty rare in WvW would have a hard time hitting those numbers.

It might be possible with a Scholar Runes, full Bloodlust stacks, full Guard stacks a few Might stacks and a few stacks of Vulnerability. But it seems a bit of a stretch.

If you add Assassins Singet_ into that mix then yeah, 14k might well be possible.

I hit a 6k mug in wvw with full signets, ruby orbs. no bloodlust/gaurd stacks so i’m gona go ahead and say its very much possible XD

Thanks for the screenshot, I find that one interesting, especially the combat log.

You hit for 1.6 k with steal do a cnd bs combo 4,someting k 6,something k and then hit with steal again for over 6k.

Your damage seems quite normal except for one the abnormally high mug/steal. Especially since mug can not crit.

I smell a bug I dub it “accidental double damage” would not be the 1st mmo with this kind of bug.

Well the first steal could be unbuffed, whereas the 6k one could be fully buffed and/or on an upleveled player.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4ZwV0-N5V-Fd0;9;4OT;0E28-17B;43;0Lwl35;1udbTudbTt-FvF6o0S;1VhVlWqXv214752kVJV2q;5F2Cok2Cw;9;9;9;9;7VR-6Q

max damage 1 shot wonder backstab thief build.
grand total of 63% bonus damage if all circumstances are met.
5% dagger damage from dagger training.
10% if they have a condition (steal poisons and weakens)
3% from cloak and dagger causes vuln
10% if you have more than 6 ini which is guaranteed with 15 in trickery.
5% if you are behind them.
5% from force sigil.
15% from assassins signet.
10% from scholar.
3816 attack, 118% crit damage.
20 stacks of might.
4516 attack with might
Doing all the math, on a target with 3000 armor the max damage you can do with a single backstab (and only backstab) is ~12,317. this is not accounting for cloak and dagger, mug, air sigil, poison, and the preceding heart seekers.
with your armor (2830) the max damage on the backstab would be ~13,057
Basi for stun.
this combo can be pulled off from 2400 range with sword 2, infil signet, and steal so you can do it from beyond where people would see it coming in the blink of an eye. the downside being that it is a one shot wonder build. your burst has a 45 sec cd but will 1 shot anyone if you land it.
I run this build for fun sometimes. The funny thing, with ascended armor and precision food you can get another 20% damage bonus with executioner and 100% crit chance without hidden killer. I haven’t messed around with it yet as the math is a bit daunting, but you may be able to achieve a higher max damage back stab.
Mind you this is all with exotic armor and weapons. The caps get higher with ascended armor and weapons…

Any questions?

crap I forgot to use valk weapons to make the power higher from food. ugh, recalculating.

edit: Okay its just a 5 power difference, nvm not going through the trouble.
linking version with valk weapons for future reference.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4ZwV0-N5V-Fd0;9;4OT;0E28-17B;43;0Lwl35;1udbTudbTt-FwV6s0T;1VhVlWqXv214752kVJV2q;5F2Cok2Cw;9;9;9;9;7VR-6u

this gives you 15k health with the same said damage. and enough ini to heartseeker away for the escape if you ever fail to land the combo.

also forgot to calculate in guard stacks…

Here is Yski (who I was expecting to respond to this thread earlier): Great offense, very little defense.

With the guard leech included, he might hit for those sorts of numbers vs that armor.

Yski doesn’t use the max damage version of the build. he makes some compromises. personal preference sort of thing.

Edit: Nvm thats his second video which has very close to the max damage version. less reliable though.

In my tests the damage from mighton venom and the extra power for the 30 points exceeded the damage from 15 trickery 10% if ini is over 6.

Especially in the mists, it might be different if you max out power in wvw and the multiplier might exceed the increase in the base.

I still do not see how it ispossible for bs to harder than roughly 12-13k and also not cnd to hit much harder than 4.5k.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoa8YlcmSOHfy4E/5Ex2DfKUiy9wpGtpdFwKA-j0yAY/BRTQgJLBiKAm9CY6bRrF3ioxqrxUuCpaXYVMEA-w

You can get 10 stacks of might from 25 in shadow arts, and then the other 15 from 3 sigs. Also 15% more dmg from assassin sig.

On top of food and stacks, you can get about 4700 attack, 4800 if you have guard leech.

On glass, you can hit upwards to 16-17k, even against medium armor (an example was an engi, who is 80 and should be in exotics at least considering he was a bronze general). On heavy, I’ve hit (what I was told) full bunkers for over 8k.

It’s a little more inline now with the nerf to perma stealth, but this build (default build credited to cruuk) was all kinds of hilarious before 12/10.

What is impossible is possible to thief.

In fact, i don’t even check my log anymore, why should i?

i just say to myself, “thief, oh ok”, than i move on..

no big deal.

calculating max damage isn’t that hard. as you can see from my post, without guard buffs on the build I posted a max damage backstab is roughly 13,338 on a target with his armor. Again, this is with exotic armor, ascended trinkets, and no guard buffs. If you are curious as to why valk armor over zerker, more health = more power with food, so if you can get more health or armor without sacrificing power, crit damage, or damage modifiers, you should. The formula is basically

S = Skill Coefficient
W = Weapon Strength
P = Power
A = Armor
M = Damage Modifiers
V = Vulnerability Stacks
C = Critical Damage

{include whats in these brackets only assuming its a crit}
((S*W*P)/(A))*(((M+V) +1) ((C +50) +1)/100) +1)

So, lets take the build.
((2.405*1030*4516)/(2830)) * ((( 118 + 50 )/ 100 ) + 1 ) * ((( 60 + 3 )/ 100 ) + 1 ) = 17268

now lets add bloodlust and guard leech, 350 more power, and another 10 power from applied fortitude with sharpening stones.

((2.405*1030*4876)/(2830)) * ((( 118 + 50 )/ 100 ) + 1 ) * ((( 60+3 )/100 ) + 1 ) = 18644

Edit: forgot to add a 1 to the damage multiplier formula. fixed and variables adjusted. numbers are all right now.
also note that i have been testing and I seem to be missing something. the calculation tends to be 3-10% off. Not sure what I’m missing though.

I hit a champion(rank) ranger for 19k recently. I’m really unsure why it was so high, I had maybe 6-8 stacks of might and im not full glass…any ideas?

perhaps he was naked? or wearing rares or an up level. all sorts of stuff. glass rangers are quite glassy also.

so i just realized i forgot to add a 1 this entire time…..
max damage on full zerker ranger with exotic gear and no points in toughness tree = 20171 with 5 stacks of might.

x Charlie.4820:

Can get 22 if you have venoms give might aswell.

Can get 25 if you use a superior sigil of battle as well.

Bazzoong.7145:

^

Only with the weird haste stuff happening I was able to go beyond 10k bs, but some time my damage just skyrocketed for no reason I could see usually with haste up, 3k 3k 3k skill1 attack chain etc. (really weirs stuff).

interesting. It seems Quickness itself is broken, as the same happens to my glass ranger when i use LB AA. Quickness, and it does constant 2.5-2.8k hits, in melee range…. normally, i expect that damage to appear at 500-900 or 900+ range…..

so is this a bug?

That thief was running no signets (iirc) and had no might stacks. His sigils have been bloodlust and fire. Basilisk venom was active. That was on around 2.4k armor.

I’m still wondering what he was running.

Edit: He was fully buffed with guard leech and 25 stacks of bl.

Shtra Quo.1932:

That thief was running no signets (iirc) and had no might stacks. His sigils have been bloodlust and fire. Basilisk venom was active. That was on around 2.4k armor.

I’m still wondering what he was running.

Edit: He was fully buffed with guard leech and 25 stacks of bl.

full zerk, scholar runes, 30/30/0/0/10 (or something like that).

I think the better question is.. What were you running?

So i bring the Truth to you

Today while in wvw, i was hit with 6, 323 Heartseeker and 16,935 Backstab by none other than thief.

Seriously,

how much more truth we the victim classes need to once and for all, put Thief class on trial for their merciless and barbaric crimes?

get a group? kitten… play a different game? Stop whining.

What annoys the hell out of me is when 2 or 3 thiefs gang up on people. One thief, big deal. Its a L2P issue

Burnfall.9573:

So i bring the Truth to you

Today while in wvw, i was hit with 6, 323 Heartseeker and 16,935 Backstab by none other than thief.

Seriously,

how much more truth we the victim classes need to once and for all, put Thief class on trial for their merciless and barbaric crimes?

Last night I hit a ranger for 7.8k. Most of my backstabs hit for 5-6k. On guards and wars occasionally I hit for as little as 2-3k from the back. The problem is the build, not the thief.

Burnfall.9573:

So i bring the Truth to you

Today while in wvw, i was hit with 6, 323 Heartseeker and 16,935 Backstab by none other than thief.

Seriously,

how much more truth we the victim classes need to once and for all, put Thief class on trial for their merciless and barbaric crimes?

There is one common factor to all your losses vs thieves. I’ll let you figure it out. (hint: it’s not the thieves)

I agree it’s not the thieves, unfortunately the whose only whose doing this is… are the thieves.

Maugetarr.6823:

Burnfall.9573:

So i bring the Truth to you

Today while in wvw, i was hit with 6, 323 Heartseeker and 16,935 Backstab by none other than thief.

Seriously,

how much more truth we the victim classes need to once and for all, put Thief class on trial for their merciless and barbaric crimes?

Last night I hit a ranger for 7.8k. Most of my backstabs hit for 5-6k. On guards and wars occasionally I hit for as little as 2-3k from the back. The problem is the build, not the thief.

same here, but with same class
found a lvl 80 necro running around and backstabbed him for 9k (i had only food, no bl or stacks).
then found another lvl 80 necro but my backstab was only around 6k.
Now, since my stats didn’t change, is up to your build and buffs

Easlay.3297:

same here, but with same class
found a lvl 80 necro running around and backstabbed him for 9k (i had only food, no bl or stacks).
then found another lvl 80 necro but my backstab was only around 6k.
Now, since my stats didn’t change, is up to your build and buffs

Now that’s just stupid, it’s your own fault you hit the first one for 9k.

I hit a zerker staff ele in WvW for 12k backstab followed by 8k heartseeker once, that’s my highest burst to date.

I was running the 0/30/30/30/0 hidden killer D/P build at the time, and I used assassin’s signet with the gain might on signet use trait. I had 25 stacks of bloodlust, no guard leech. Half my armour was soldiers and a couple of trinkets ware cavalier, rest was zerker.

I’d normally expect to see 8-9k backstabs against something like that, I only slapped on the signet because the opportunity presented itself (Seriously, when are people going to learn to look on ledges for the thief waiting for you to walk underneath? xD ).

Backstabs like the one in the OP are more than possible, but you must have absolutely NO defence to get hit like that. As others have said, the problem isn’t the thief, it’s the other class refusing to use any form of toughness. I dread to think what a hundred blades warrior would hit you for :P

I really should pay more attention to the forums. Sorry I’m late!

First of all, Burnfall: my warrior hits harder in sPvP. Nuff said

Secondly, the build I’m using should be capable of those numbers, and I know I could go higher with better gear and blood lust stacks. If only killing people paid more and gaining stacks was as easy as in sPvP..

Long story short, a full zerker build with lots of ascended stuff and blood lust stacks, or a build similar to mine should do the trick.

he couldve been running 25 might stacks w/ signets/trap and probs was full zerker glass cannon with thief runes, i’ve ran a build like that and i can hit that high, but im very squishy and die often.. but its fun

I tried Shadow Trap + 3 signets (using might on signet trait) for the 25 stacks of might, plus 25 stacks bloodlust and compared backstabs on dolyaks. I was able to improve from 5.8k backstabs up to a max of 10.5k backstab without changing anything else.

Don’t see myself dropping my blinding powder, refuge, and shadowstep for all signets and a trap though for my usual WvW roaming but it was fun experimenting.

It’s possible with guard stacks 25 might and bloodlust to hit 14k but that’s nothing to the multiple heartseekers that follows. I’ve hit people with 14k heartseeker before