Guild Wars 2

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Anet said – thiefs wil be the most mobile, evasive class.

since they said this: nerf mobility, nerf vigor, nerf everything that falls out of the thiefs anus

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

vincecontix.1264:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

Now Sanduskel you have been trolling the thief forums well and hard for months now, yet have nothing you to prove you are decent thief player(or even main a thief) you have posted no vids, your not high ranked in tpvp, you’ve shown the thief community nothing.

You trolling skillz are second to none I will give you that, but would you at the very lest be willing to duel someone to back you statements? I’ll tell you what ill give you 20gold if you can beat me. So lets have a duel I wont be using my thief this would be an opportunity for you to show what a great position the thief is currently in. Also I’m sure there are a few other thief that play alts that would like to duel you and see if you can back up anything you have said in the forums.

Until you show some evidence you can play half as good as you imply your statements mean nothing.

been this route. he willl say hes EU or if ur EU he will be NA or some excuse blah blah. seriously hes not a thief. kinda already been thru this to this conclusion

Nema Tode.5637:

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

If you look at the big picture, it’s a nerf. About 60% of the traits that thieves have are situational if not a waste of a trait slot because most of the traits that are worth the slot increase initiative in some way.

Something anet DOES NOT understand is that half the time a thief chooses a trait it’s because there is nothing better to slot. Another thing that they do not understand is that when thieves run out of initiative their chance of dying skyrockets because most of a thief’s survival comes from the spamming of blinds, stealth and evades.

Initiative is what allows a thief to use skills. These skills provide damage a/o evades, blinds and stealth. No initiative means no access to those skills ergo no evades, blinds and stealth. No evades, blinds and stealth = no survivability.

Initiative is everything to a thief. If anet touches initiative it affects the entire profession, not just a few builds, and everyone would know this if they would have stopped kittening and played the profession.

Zacchary.6183:

Nema Tode.5637:

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

If you look at the big picture, it’s a nerf. About 60% of the traits that thieves have are situational if not a waste of a trait slot because most of the traits that are worth the slot increase initiative in some way.

Something anet DOES NOT understand is that half the time a thief chooses a trait it’s because there is nothing better to slot. Another thing that they do not understand is that when thieves run out of initiative their chance of dying skyrockets because most of a thief’s survival comes from the spamming of blinds, stealth and evades.

Initiative is what allows a thief to use skills. These skills provide damage a/o evades, blinds and stealth. No initiative means no access to those skills ergo no evades, blinds and stealth. No evades, blinds and stealth = no survivability.

Initiative is everything to a thief. If anet touches initiative it affects the entire profession, not just a few builds, and everyone would know this if they would have stopped kittening and played the profession.

i also think that them slowing down our init bursts and making about half it back in slow regen gains….will make us slow down our play. this means longer invis times to really choose our attacks well. this means less DPS….less group help in wvw….less node capping time in spvp/tpvp. HORRIBLE change. id rather see 6 second revealed times and a HUGE boost to defense. i think thats what thief needs. 15k base HP ….. higher base toughness and 6 seconds of revealed. would make a world of difference.

Zacchary.6183:

Nema Tode.5637:

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

If you look at the big picture, it’s a nerf. About 60% of the traits that thieves have are situational if not a waste of a trait slot because most of the traits that are worth the slot increase initiative in some way.

Something anet DOES NOT understand is that half the time a thief chooses a trait it’s because there is nothing better to slot. Another thing that they do not understand is that when thieves run out of initiative their chance of dying skyrockets because most of a thief’s survival comes from the spamming of blinds, stealth and evades.

Initiative is what allows a thief to use skills. These skills provide damage a/o evades, blinds and stealth. No initiative means no access to those skills ergo no evades, blinds and stealth. No evades, blinds and stealth = no survivability.

Initiative is everything to a thief. If anet touches initiative it affects the entire profession, not just a few builds, and everyone would know this if they would have stopped kittening and played the profession.

For this (the bolded) reason I don’t think there will be a reason to go more than 15 into acrobatics anymore. It’s not like they’re giving us a choice between multiple awesome traits and forcing a hard decision, they’re just nerfing the only reason I went 20 into that line instead of 15. Speaking of being held hostage by a 15 point trait (how they described opportunist) is how I see feline grace. No that doesn’t mean nerf it, but move it down a tier where the other classes who have access to perma-vigor have it as a 5 (10 in the case of ele) point trait. In a class based around dodging, you’d think some sort of endurance training would be the first thing on the list at thief bootcamp.

Zacchary.6183:

Nema Tode.5637:

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

If you look at the big picture, it’s a nerf. About 60% of the traits that thieves have are situational if not a waste of a trait slot because most of the traits that are worth the slot increase initiative in some way.

Something anet DOES NOT understand is that half the time a thief chooses a trait it’s because there is nothing better to slot. Another thing that they do not understand is that when thieves run out of initiative their chance of dying skyrockets because most of a thief’s survival comes from the spamming of blinds, stealth and evades.

Initiative is what allows a thief to use skills. These skills provide damage a/o evades, blinds and stealth. No initiative means no access to those skills ergo no evades, blinds and stealth. No evades, blinds and stealth = no survivability.

Initiative is everything to a thief. If anet touches initiative it affects the entire profession, not just a few builds, and everyone would know this if they would have stopped kittening and played the profession.

Well first of all I would like to point out my character IS a thief and is the ONLY character (besides one day as a warrior) I’ve played as in pvp.
That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.
Last, if you are spamming to the point you have zero initiative and cant recover, then you’re doing something wrong. Staying stealthed for the full 3 or 4 seconds will give 3 or 4 initiative back post patch, and throwing down a refuge will grant ALL of it back even if you’re using preparedness.
Infusion of shadow on the other hand, will only effect people who use builds that Anet has labeled as “abusive” (we all know that means d/p) implying they didn’t create it with the intent for it to work like that.

Nema Tode.5637:

That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.

Opportunist.

It’s in all power builds. Some builds will still see a slight increase in initiative (D/D). Others are completely hosed (P/P).

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

Can be, but the Nerfs was more massive, so it’s equally a nerf of the class

vincecontix.1264:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

Now Sanduskel you have been trolling the thief forums well and hard for months now, yet have nothing you to prove you are decent thief player(or even main a thief) you have posted no vids, your not high ranked in tpvp, you’ve shown the thief community nothing.

You trolling skillz are second to none I will give you that, but would you at the very lest be willing to duel someone to back you statements? I’ll tell you what ill give you 20gold if you can beat me. So lets have a duel I wont be using my thief this would be an opportunity for you to show what a great position the thief is currently in. Also I’m sure there are a few other thief that play alts that would like to duel you and see if you can back up anything you have said in the forums.

Until you show some evidence you can play half as good as you imply your statements mean nothing.

i already said I’d duel him on my war and stream it for everyone to see how great his thief is lmao. he’s just dodging it, like expected. He’s a phony, he doesn’t even play thief.

Being the biggest thieves guild we do not expect many quits.
With this big nerf ahead we expect much less viable builds and less adaptability.

Best,

Haltair, one of the twelve shadows

Stop feeding him.

It’s too late for that, he has fed so much that he became autonomous.

Feeding trolls just makes them come back for more. In Alaska the same saying goes for moose. It appears trolls and moose have more in common than I originally thought. I hope this post is helpful in some way.

Cheers!

I really don’t understand why y’all are so upset. Some of us simply don’t buy the doom and gloom being propagated here, and we trust anet to do the best for the entire game. We just aren’t naturally pessimistic I suppose. Hang in there, the thief class will be better off.

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

Can be, but the Nerfs was more massive, so it’s equally a nerf of the class

its def not a massive buff. only 1 or arguablle 2 builds get buffed. the rest are str8 up hosed. opportunist alone makes up for the init regen. meld in shadows (2init on stealth) is WAY more than what we are getting back in regen. then theres all the other nerfs to go along with it too.

what they should do is make it so only the first WEAPON SKILL that enters you invis….gives stealth. if i have to waste shadow refuge…..i expect antoher 2 init for a 60 second cooldown. without that the trait isnt worth taking.

Travlane.5948:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

Can be, but the Nerfs was more massive, so it’s equally a nerf of the class

its def not a massive buff. only 1 or arguablle 2 builds get buffed. the rest are str8 up hosed. opportunist alone makes up for the init regen. meld in shadows (2init on stealth) is WAY more than what we are getting back in regen. then theres all the other nerfs to go along with it too.

what they should do is make it so only the first WEAPON SKILL that enters you invis….gives stealth. if i have to waste shadow refuge…..i expect antoher 2 init for a 60 second cooldown. without that the trait isnt worth taking.

Opportunist is overrated. Two of my third builds dont use it and I never had problems with my ini.

I would never leave thief. I would love it if d/p thieves went extinct though.

capmasterflash.5690:

I would never leave thief. I would love it if d/p thieves went extinct though.

The problem with that is as soon as a certain spec is nerfed not the end of it. Eventually your build will end up on the chopping block when everyone moves to it because it’s one of the few viable builds left. All of a sudden it becomes the OP FOTM build and gets nerfed during the next balance update.

Black Teagan.9215:

Travlane.5948:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

Can be, but the Nerfs was more massive, so it’s equally a nerf of the class

its def not a massive buff. only 1 or arguablle 2 builds get buffed. the rest are str8 up hosed. opportunist alone makes up for the init regen. meld in shadows (2init on stealth) is WAY more than what we are getting back in regen. then theres all the other nerfs to go along with it too.

what they should do is make it so only the first WEAPON SKILL that enters you invis….gives stealth. if i have to waste shadow refuge…..i expect antoher 2 init for a 60 second cooldown. without that the trait isnt worth taking.

Opportunist is overrated. Two of my third builds dont use it and I never had problems with my ini.

with zerk builds its VERY important. its not OP…and is slightly overrated. . . but in that sense its also a huge hurt when its nerfed. the builds that dont use it dont need it bc they rely on other things.

Sanduskel.1850:

I really don’t understand why y’all are so upset. Some of us simply don’t buy the doom and gloom being propagated here, and we trust anet to do the best for the entire game. We just aren’t naturally pessimistic I suppose. Hang in there, the thief class will be better off.

I really dont understand why you won’t back up you statements by dueling some of us. Its an opportunty for you show everyone you know what your talking about why wouldn’t you take it.

Also in your previous post you used the term broken mechanic did you mean stealth?

vincecontix.1264:

Sanduskel.1850:

I really don’t understand why y’all are so upset. Some of us simply don’t buy the doom and gloom being propagated here, and we trust anet to do the best for the entire game. We just aren’t naturally pessimistic I suppose. Hang in there, the thief class will be better off.

I really dont understand why you won’t back up you statements by dueling some of us. Its an opportunty for you show everyone you know what your talking about why wouldn’t you take it.

Also in your previous post you used the term broken mechanic did you mean stealth?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Complete-list-of-nerfs-since-release/first#post3253986

We really need to adopt this stance, fellas. Attempting civil discourse is a waste of our time, and just pads the boards with junk posts.

Tbh, i’ll never ever quit my thief, i’ve come to far in this class, “mastered” so many aspects of it i just can’t handle playing another class.

I actually look forward to 10th, my build is pretty much untouched and only buffed and it will definetly make all the LOL i play thief cus perma stealth OP re roll, and im ok with this.

Sadly I gotta agree, like some other MMOs that tried to balance/fix issues Anet is failing. Again there is no balance in this patch, ranger traps, mesmer condition removal, ele is getting attunement speed, and thief is supposed to be the most agile fighting style but just nerfed… Dec 10th Balance patch, WTFE

Anyone interested can join me in Path of Exile, its free download and play, pay for cosmetics, its a cross between diablo and gw1. And omg there is actually loot not just globs of gloop. IGN: theDekk feel free to add me

1 thief down 2 weeks ago, peace and gl

Sons.5493:

I actually look forward to 10th, my build is pretty much untouched and only buffed

That’s a pretty weak mindset. They aren’t nerfing my build so screw everyone else.

Zacchary.6183:

Something anet DOES NOT understand is that half the time a thief chooses a trait it’s because there is nothing better to slot. Another thing that they do not understand is that when thieves run out of initiative their chance of dying skyrockets because most of a thief’s survival comes from the spamming of blinds, stealth and evades.

Exactly. Thieves use those traits because there is nothing better available. Now Anet nerfs those traits, so that thieves are “finally free to use other traits”. Problem is, there STILL are no other traits worth taking, with the added problem that the only worthwhile ones now are useless, too, and the increase in initiative regen does not cancel out the nerf to the traits, so the overall situation is just worse than it was before they changed everything.

Already started a warrior and got her to 80, just bad that all the ascended stuff on my thief can’t be moved over. They want us all to play warriors and guardians, so I’ll just do that – I’d rather enjoy what little time I have available for playing than get angry about my lolthief.

Nema Tode.5637:

That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.

Uhh, actually Signet Use is featured in both of our currently viable tPvP builds, Quick Recovery in one, and Kleptomaniac in the other. Please don’t talk about things that you don’t know anything about.

Well… at least PvE is still fun…
Even the thought of competitive play for GW2 is laughable in its current state.

Guys I hear you and I feel the same way. Too much hate on thieves.
Well all I know is I love my guard more and more. When I start getting RSI from my thief I take a break on guard. Sooooo easy and relaxing. It’s like walking in a beach wallpaper.

I really don’t understand how I always pick the losers class in every game. I guess I see challenging or requires skills as a dare, but now it just feel like a trap.

This December is another nerf and whatever they give us now to keep us happy will get nerfed too in a few months.

I feel like telling Anet “take my stealth already!”, maybe then they well stop poke around to see if it hurts.

Yes I’ll keep my thief as official “main”, because I’ve put too much time and effort into her now.

Just yay for alts I guess…

Incurafy.6329:

Nema Tode.5637:

That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.

Uhh, actually Signet Use is featured in both of our currently viable tPvP builds, Quick Recovery in one, and Kleptomaniac in the other. Please don’t talk about things that you don’t know anything about.

I take extra health over signet use on d/p but you’re right that between the 2 builds, all those traits are taken typically.

so i ask all thieves in sheer honesty, what are you plans? try to find some adaptation? make another class? quit the game entirely?

I also play an elementalist, just recently got her to 80 only to find out they were planning on nerfing that class too but according to the elementalist forums those nerfs are now no longer happening yet every nerf to the thief has gone through as planned, every time. As you can see from my signature, i play pistol dagger but i take this as an attack on my class. Im sure thief condition builds will be taken into account and declared too strong at some point, thus they will also be nerfed.

TH13F4LYFYOLO420SWAG11!!111!!1112@!!222

Good, that means I’ll be an even more unique snowflake.

Rangerdeity.5847:

Arkantos.7460:

all about 30% – 40%
- reroll a warri or another class 20%- 30%
- quit game 5%- 10%

im ok with a few people quiting the game but we really cant handle them all rerolling to warrior because you know thats where they will go its the easy mistake friendly version of the thief that has a valid place in all game modes as opposed to the mists and pve (non instance) places where thiefs are actually welcome i honestly feel bad for the class as a necro i know im OP and i know a good thief is the only way to to stop me in WvW tho their ability to stealth isnt really OP its incredibly annoying when they are in the keep you just captured but that is its only real use other than roaming and camp stealing i would accept the thiefs in my guild not being able to stealth as they do now with an open heart if they gained damage reduced when taking damage from multiple sources or gave them increased range on short bow and some decent targetable aoe utility so they could do something inside a zerg vs zerg battle as it is now my thief will still get leveled to 80 next but only for the support venom build i see no point playing any other role in WvW on the thief

I find your honesty refreshing. Surprising as it may sound some ppl don’t find necros OP. And your views on theives I believe are pretty accurate.

jonwar.4186:

so i ask all thieves in sheer honesty, what are you plans? try to find some adaptation? make another class? quit the game entirely?

I also play an elementalist, just recently got her to 80 only to find out they were planning on nerfing that class too but according to the elementalist forums those nerfs are now no longer happening yet every nerf to the thief has gone through as planned, every time. As you can see from my signature, i play pistol dagger but i take this as an attack on my class. Im sure thief condition builds will be taken into account and declared too strong at some point, thus they will also be nerfed.

i will keep playing mine, as d/p

dec 10th changes are so wrong in so many ways though lol

jonwar.4186:

so i ask all thieves in sheer honesty, what are you plans? try to find some adaptation? make another class? quit the game entirely?

Having to give up the mobility of S/D means that my thief will no longer be useful in GvG. I will stop playing that entirely, or run a Warrior like everyone else. That leaves me with ZvZ and roaming options; seeing how vigor is pretty much gone, the survivability for ZvZ leaves much to be desired and I expect to die often. If it is too bad, I will stop playing that, too. Seeing how we absolutely need S/D and vigor in this condition meta against competent builds/players (I’m not talking about the baddies, they will fall over regardless of choice of weapons), I expect that a win cannot be achieved anymore. We already have to work our kitten off to get decent results with condition bunkers everywhere (Condition damage is a broken stat), and seeing how many of those get stronger while we lose even more counters/evades, I suspect that roaming will become pointless as well. I tried dire P/D, but that just ends of in stalemates as nobody is capable of actually killing each other (How can anyone like fighting for 5+ minutes with no result?!). I will probably quit.

Good thieves will never quit they will come around any nerf anet does