Guild Wars 2

I can count 4 times thats 4/5 skills on my d/d build that got nurfed. So should i just re roll before the class becomes a joke?

Don’t wait, reroll now.

Any more nerfing and I’ll just play some other game. I made a thief because I like the play style. If the style changes then I probably won’t like it any more. Which class gets dual nerf bats for weapons? At least then I’d know it won’t get nerfed any more.

About 1/10th of the times thieves should have been nerfed.
At least until culling is fixed, then balance is restored.

Though the whole “lol I R invisible and gank you with bursty burst then vanish and run away if I get in trouble” playstyle as a whole should stop being put in games. It will never be liked except by the people who like to abuse it and the QQ will always exist about it because it’s just lame to play against in every game that’s had a thief/rogue/assassin class since the dawn of time.

Thiefs havent been nerfed enough, but they need buffing in other areas.

Puandro.3245:

Thiefs havent been nerfed enough, but they need buffing in other areas.

Truth.

Man it would be nice to get rid of this whole invisibility alpha strike invisible trololo playstyle and make them more thiefy. More survivability through evades, blinds, interrupts and stuff. Swashbuckler/duelist like.

People would hate them less if it wasn’t for the same tired trololostealthyburststealthystealthy crap that keeps cropping up for the ganker class in mmo’s.

Braxxus.2904:

About 1/10th of the times thieves should have been nerfed.
At least until culling is fixed, then balance is restored.

Though the whole “lol I R invisible and gank you with bursty burst then vanish and run away if I get in trouble” playstyle as a whole should stop being put in games. It will never be liked except by the people who like to abuse it and the QQ will always exist about it because it’s just lame to play against in every game that’s had a thief/rogue/assassin class since the dawn of time.

Id like to ask all the bad glass warriors not to reply as this is about theifs not how bad you build your over powered warriors.

They should delete the thief class in this game, as they have done such a bad job making it worth playing, not enough beta tests I guess. Nerf the class to the ground like in SWTOR and then loose most players, this game will be truly f2p in no time.

Games about warriors and guardians nothing more nothing less.

Games just about Pve content and nerfing nothing more nothing less

Braxxus.2904:

About 1/10th of the times thieves should have been nerfed.
At least until culling is fixed, then balance is restored.

Though the whole “lol I R invisible and gank you with bursty burst then vanish and run away if I get in trouble” playstyle as a whole should stop being put in games. It will never be liked except by the people who like to abuse it and the QQ will always exist about it because it’s just lame to play against in every game that’s had a thief/rogue/assassin class since the dawn of time.

Warrior – endure pain, absorb backstab

Was that too hard to think of?

miringains.8653:

They should delete the thief class in this game, as they have done such a bad job making it worth playing, not enough beta tests I guess. Nerf the class to the ground like in SWTOR and then loose most players, this game will be truly f2p in no time.

Its true this is stupid 1 thief like from different game.

Endure Pain > Backstab.
All day, err’ day.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

miringains.8653:

They should delete the thief class in this game, as they have done such a bad job making it worth playing, not enough beta tests I guess. Nerf the class to the ground like in SWTOR and then loose most players, this game will be truly f2p in no time.

Its true this is stupid 1 thief like from different game.

Dude you cry about every single thing, I bet if you uploaded a video of you playing it’d be funny as hell because you’d be so bad. I usually don’t say this but, Learn To Play.

If backstab gets nerfed and NOTHING else gets buffed, this class will only have P/D condition thief to run because of the lack of options ANet gives for other builds.

Kaizer.7135:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

miringains.8653:

They should delete the thief class in this game, as they have done such a bad job making it worth playing, not enough beta tests I guess. Nerf the class to the ground like in SWTOR and then loose most players, this game will be truly f2p in no time.

Its true this is stupid 1 thief like from different game.

Dude you cry about every single thing, I bet if you uploaded a video of you playing it’d be funny as hell because you’d be so bad. I usually don’t say this but, Learn To Play.

If backstab gets nerfed and NOTHING else gets buffed, this class will only have P/D condition thief to run because of the lack of options ANet gives for other builds.

I play 8 years in GW and I kill 1v4 in Random Arena and I know what Im talking.
Thief must disapire from GW2 becose noobs like you cant learn to play GW2.
If you playing thief and you cant kill any onther char in 2-3 sec you just noob.

I make thief for test and on 20 lvl no 1 can kill me only different thief.

Already rerolled to Warrior.

Not for damage reasons, but because Thief survivability in PVE is terrible and the only way to get around that is to sacrifice a substantial amount of offensive capability (which Warriors don’t have to do, or at least not to the extent Thieves do).

Pistol changes might make me come back though, depending on what they are specifically.

Braxxus.2904:

Puandro.3245:

Thiefs havent been nerfed enough, but they need buffing in other areas.

Truth.

Man it would be nice to get rid of this whole invisibility alpha strike invisible trololo playstyle and make them more thiefy. More survivability through evades, blinds, interrupts and stuff. Swashbuckler/duelist like.

People would hate them less if it wasn’t for the same tired trololostealthyburststealthystealthy crap that keeps cropping up for the ganker class in mmo’s.

I would love this. Get rid of Stealth, Shadowsteps, Venoms and Traps and replace with thief abilities not assassin abilities.

Elthurien.8356:

Braxxus.2904:

Puandro.3245:

Thiefs havent been nerfed enough, but they need buffing in other areas.

Truth.

Man it would be nice to get rid of this whole invisibility alpha strike invisible trololo playstyle and make them more thiefy. More survivability through evades, blinds, interrupts and stuff. Swashbuckler/duelist like.

People would hate them less if it wasn’t for the same tired trololostealthyburststealthystealthy crap that keeps cropping up for the ganker class in mmo’s.

I would love this. Get rid of Stealth, Shadowsteps, Venoms and Traps and replace with thief abilities not assassin abilities.

Why not just roll a warrior instead of destroying a class that Anet designed for this game.

Kaizer.7135:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

miringains.8653:

They should delete the thief class in this game, as they have done such a bad job making it worth playing, not enough beta tests I guess. Nerf the class to the ground like in SWTOR and then loose most players, this game will be truly f2p in no time.

Its true this is stupid 1 thief like from different game.

Dude you cry about every single thing, I bet if you uploaded a video of you playing it’d be funny as hell because you’d be so bad. I usually don’t say this but, Learn To Play.

If backstab gets nerfed and NOTHING else gets buffed, this class will only have P/D condition thief to run because of the lack of options ANet gives for other builds.

My guess is that he’s a clicker.
The irony is that he’s calling other people ‘noobs’ for learning the playstyle of their class or at least having the humility to mimic successful Thieves.

I swear man, I really need to find one of those 5 weapon sets, 150 trait point builds and be as easy mode as all these Thieves people are complaining about.

Doomdesire.9365:

Braxxus.2904:

About 1/10th of the times thieves should have been nerfed.
At least until culling is fixed, then balance is restored.

Though the whole “lol I R invisible and gank you with bursty burst then vanish and run away if I get in trouble” playstyle as a whole should stop being put in games. It will never be liked except by the people who like to abuse it and the QQ will always exist about it because it’s just lame to play against in every game that’s had a thief/rogue/assassin class since the dawn of time.

Warrior – endure pain, absorb backstab

Was that too hard to think of?

From what I’ve been reading on these forums since release, “yes”.
LOL

I think the Thief should have been more designed with tactical combat in mind, as opposed to giving them such a wide variety of in-combat stealth abilities. Just because you have a DPS focused melee class doesn’t mean it has to be like fighting a kitten poltergeist.

Whether or not someone beats a Thief, the response is always the same, they get frustrated that a class disappeared on them multiple times and was allowed to keep getting opening shots on them. It’s just a downer in general to fight Thieves, even if you’re able to beat them every time, it is annoying and not fun at all, you don’t feel as if you’re matching wits with them or comparing tactics, you just feel like you’re fighting someone who needs constant crutches. Stealth in general removes the need to think into the future, which I feel is a problem in any game. It just allows you to sit and wait for the opening to present itself, rather than having to make the opening yourself which is what every other class in the game has to do.

Though I’m sure I’ll get a lot of overly defensive Thief players replying to this, I’m not going to lie about how I feel about a class that constantly disappears during fights. The Thief could have been designed other ways and still be completely viable and effective as a class.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

If no 1 can kill me on 20 lvl thief only different thief this is not good ?
Trust me I play ranger without armor and I have more frags then meny ppl and thief is facking shlt in GW2.

Video evidence of you on a level 20 Thief God-mode-status in WvW or you’re lying out of your kitten
Upload date must be within 11/15/2012 to Present.

I won’t wait because anyone who has played an upleveled Thief (see also, below level 80) is just as useless as a GS Ranger, and twice as squishy.

Braxxus.2904:

Puandro.3245:

Thiefs havent been nerfed enough, but they need buffing in other areas.

Truth.

Man it would be nice to get rid of this whole invisibility alpha strike invisible trololo playstyle and make them more thiefy. More survivability through evades, blinds, interrupts and stuff. Swashbuckler/duelist like.

People would hate them less if it wasn’t for the same tired trololostealthyburststealthystealthy crap that keeps cropping up for the ganker class in mmo’s.

If you are familiar with Dark Age of Camelot, they had a set of classes exactly like this. They were considered “light armor” classes that were in between the warrior archetypes and the assassin archetypes. They wore mid-level armor and had a focus on “dirty fighting”, but did not involve any forms of stealth or invisibility. Instead, their focus was on positional combat, they would be more effective when attacking from the sides or from behind and when confronted with direct combat, their goal was to distract or evade.

They fulfilled the role of high melee DPS, positional combat and misdirection while not relying one bit on stealth and they were a highly effective PvP class. Considering that DAoC is an 11 year old game, if Mythic was able to implement this type of class back then, there’s no reason games can’t do it today.

ashleydoll.8563:

“[…] It’s just a downer in general to fight Thieves, even if you’re able to beat them every time, it is annoying and not fun at all, you don’t feel as if you’re matching wits with them or comparing tactics, you just feel like you’re fighting someone who needs constant crutches. Stealth in general removes the need to think into the future, which I feel is a problem in any game. It just allows you to sit and wait for the opening to present itself, rather than having to make the opening yourself which is what every other class in the game has to do. […]”

This is where I stopped reading.
Reason:
Classes who have access to Stun / Immobilize / Fear / Daze (see also: Death Sentence for the Burst Thief) or can “make an opening for themselves instead of waiting around like a deer in headlights waiting to get hit”.

Elementalist:
Updraft, Shocking Aura, Earthquake, Signet of Earth, Gust, Static Field, Shockwave, Gale, Comet, Air Elemental (Elite), Debris Tornado, Any Arcane Utility used in Earth Attunement if Elemental Surge is slotted. , Magnetic Surge (Earth Shield), Static Field (Lightning Hammer), Wind Blast (Lightning Hammer).

Mesmer:
Mantra of Distraction, Signet of Domination, Magic Bullet, Diversion (Shatter), Moa Morph, Illusionary Leap’s “Swap”, Temporal Curtain’s “Into The Void”, Illusionary Reposte’s “Counter Blade”.

Necromancer:
Reaper’s Mark, Doom (DS), Chilling Wind, Rigor Mortis, Dark Pact, Wail of Doom.

Warrior:
Earthshaker (Burst), Backbreaker, Staggering Blow, Bull’s Charge, Endure Pain, Throw Bolas, Kick, Stomp, “Fear Me!”, Kick (Rampage), Throw Boulder (Rampage), Stomp (Rampage), Rifle Butt, Skull Crack, Tremor, Pommel Bash, Shield Bash, Pin Down, Flurry.

Ranger:
Hilt Bash, Point Blank Shot, Concussion Shot, Entangle, Muddy Terrain.

Engineer:
Overcharged Shot, Net Shot, Thumper Turret, Thump, Net Turret, Electrified Net, Net Attack, Slick Shoes, Personal Battering Ram, Supply Drop, Throw Mine, Detonate, Glue Bomb, Big Ol’ Bomb, Air Blast, Explosive Rocket, Launch Concussion Barrage (Mortar Elite), Glue Shot, Magnetic Inversion, Static Shield, Throw Shield.

Guardian:
Binding Blade, Banish, Bane Signet, Signet of Wrath, Judgement (Tome of Wrath), Zealot’s Embrace, Ring of Warding, Shield of Absorption, Chains of Light, Hammer of Wisdom ‘Command’, Pacifism (Tome of Courage).

Thief: 1/2s Stun with Pistol Whip, 1s KD from Scorpion Wire, 3s KD from Tripwire (Trap), 1/4s Daze with headshot, 2s Daze with Tactical Strike (Sword Stealth attack), Devourer Venom, Basilisk Venom, Needle Trap, Thieves Guild (Melee Thief will use Scorpion Wire on first attack).

You were saying something about waiting for an opening?
Because, by the numbers- it looks like the only class that statement would ever be true for the Ranger and the Thief. Subtract Stealth from the Thief (a self inflicted form of Crowd Control) and you’d have a subpar melee class comparable to the Ranger in melee dps.

ashleydoll.8563:

Braxxus.2904:

Puandro.3245:

Thiefs havent been nerfed enough, but they need buffing in other areas.

Truth.

Man it would be nice to get rid of this whole invisibility alpha strike invisible trololo playstyle and make them more thiefy. More survivability through evades, blinds, interrupts and stuff. Swashbuckler/duelist like.

People would hate them less if it wasn’t for the same tired trololostealthyburststealthystealthy crap that keeps cropping up for the ganker class in mmo’s.

If you are familiar with Dark Age of Camelot, they had a set of classes exactly like this. They were considered “light armor” classes that were in between the warrior archetypes and the assassin archetypes. They wore mid-level armor and had a focus on “dirty fighting”, but did not involve any forms of stealth or invisibility. Instead, their focus was on positional combat, they would be more effective when attacking from the sides or from behind and when confronted with direct combat, their goal was to distract or evade.

They fulfilled the role of high melee DPS, positional combat and misdirection while not relying one bit on stealth and they were a highly effective PvP class. Considering that DAoC is an 11 year old game, if Mythic was able to implement this type of class back then, there’s no reason games can’t do it today.

Except for the fact that I played Midgard Morgan Le Fay from release and DAoC was nowhere NEAR balanced AT ALL.
Minstrel/Infiltrator/Scout Stealth Zergs sound familiar?

Learn to play VS thiefs. God.. WHINERS

If thieves get nerfed is because they are OP, deal with that.
They were buffed in BWEs and also in some areas in the last patches.

Aervius.2016:

snip

You’ve completely misunderstood what I was saying and I’m not going to act like your mother and hold your hand through it if you’re unable to use reading comprehension and lack the ability to translate all those abilities you’ve listed into how they actually function in real combat compared to the fact thieves have way too many stealth options. It’s especially hilarious when you pull the old “I stopped reading!” crap, conveniently allowing you to respond while never actually getting the point of the post.

I also never said a single thing about taking stealth away from a thief entirely, I said it would be nice to have had a class designed to be effective without it, which you, in turn, emotionally kneejerked into me somehow saying “Take stealth away from thieves and let them stay exactly the same in all other regards”. If you’re going to simply misunderstand things and then also twist my words on top of it, you’re the exact type of overly defensive, illogical person I wanted to avoid. I will engage you no further until you wise up.

And, for your information, I did not say DAoC was a perfectly balanced game, I said the light armor classes were good – and they were for the entire time I played the game. And your referencing of stealth classes being used a lot in DAoC is precisely my point. Give people invisibility, they realize it is ridiculously easy to use and very powerful, hence they end up relying on it far too much. Again, you’ve completely twisted my words to fit the strawman you’ve built up.

So, ironically, you’ve agreed with me that stealth was abused in that game. A bit counterintuitive to what you seemed to be intending to argue – which is that stealth is fine in these types of games. You’ve sunk your own ship here and were never worth talking to in the first place, you’re addicted to your stealth abuse (while simultaneously ironically saying it was a problem in DAoC) and you’ll see no logic or reason regarding it. Perhaps you could take another look at what I actually said, which is that the Thief in this game could have been designed entirely without stealth of any form and still be effective, it did not need to go down the design route that it did.

Good day.

ashleydoll.8563:

ragerant

Funny, I don’t recall Infiltrators being insanely overpowered, or Scouts, or Minstrels by themselves simply because they could stealth.

Y u putting werdz in mah mouf, mom?

It’s the fact that only Albion could Stealth an entire group of 2-hitter quitter classes coupled with speed 5, pet charming and AoE CC with the longest ranged sniper in the game (who could Stealth). If you show me the Thief that can do all that, I’ll sign the nerfbat petition, as I’m still waiting on someone to explain to me how I get this mythical 150 trait build people keep describing as reason behind begging for more Thief nerfs. (Apparently, 5 successive patches of Thief nerfs weren’t good enough for this community to figure out the problem isn’t the Thief)

You seem to assume that I was defending culling, which is the primary issue you’re having with WvW Stealth mechanics.

Get off your horse, Lady Godiva.
Don’t take replies so personally, I was highlighting the fact that aside from the Ranger and Thief (ironically) every class in this game regardless of weapon selection has multiple choices of CC to FORCE the Thief into the open.

Beyond Basilisk Venom, we can’t force our targets to do kitten.

Therefore, your entirely long-winded rant about how “annoying” Thieves are is utterly, and totally irrelevant to class balance.

It’s interesting you bring up DAoC though, because the counter to the nigh-God mode that was the “Light Tank” was (oh kitten, get this) STUN.

More to the point, with the examples listed in my original post (the one which clearly inflammed the living hell out of you somehow) I took the time to highlight the class gimick of the Thief, or shall I take the time to spell it out?

Rogues from WoW could stun-lock the living hell out of any target they happened upon, to counter what Anet apparently saw as an imbalancing feature if implemented in a game that lacks dedicated Healing classes, they apparently decided that the defensive/offensive pattern to the Thief would be intermittent periods of Stealth, which (at the Thief players’ discretion) could be used defensively or offensively, requiring a scaling sacrifice to the alternative.

If you played DAoC, that shouldn’t be that hard to understand, especially coming from someone retaliating in such a condescending manner, as if I’m the intellectually inferior individual in this conversation.

The better question would be how many times did we deserve to be nerfed?

Nemo.6295:

The better question would be how many times did we deserve to be nerfed?

BWE3 Heartseeker was pretty kitten powerful.

Beyond that, I’m not really sure why any of them were warranted.

ashleydoll.8563:

I think the Thief should have been more designed with tactical combat in mind, as opposed to giving them such a wide variety of in-combat stealth abilities. Just because you have a DPS focused melee class doesn’t mean it has to be like fighting a kitten poltergeist.

Whether or not someone beats a Thief, the response is always the same, they get frustrated that a class disappeared on them multiple times and was allowed to keep getting opening shots on them. It’s just a downer in general to fight Thieves, even if you’re able to beat them every time, it is annoying and not fun at all, you don’t feel as if you’re matching wits with them or comparing tactics, you just feel like you’re fighting someone who needs constant crutches. Stealth in general removes the need to think into the future, which I feel is a problem in any game. It just allows you to sit and wait for the opening to present itself, rather than having to make the opening yourself which is what every other class in the game has to do.

Though I’m sure I’ll get a lot of overly defensive Thief players replying to this, I’m not going to lie about how I feel about a class that constantly disappears during fights. The Thief could have been designed other ways and still be completely viable and effective as a class.

Well said!

Without nerfing (fixing) Mug, Backstab and the ability to endlessly spam Heartseeker; the Thief will have never been truly nerfed.

Guess we’ll just have to wait for the developers to get their heads out of their…

Chakuna.6325:

Without nerfing (fixing) Mug, Backstab and the ability to endlessly spam Heartseeker; the Thief will have never been truly nerfed.
Guess we’ll just have to wait for the developers to get their heads out of their…

You sound like me during beta “Initiative is spammy”, and it fell on deaf ears.
Cute exaggeration with ‘endlessly’ when a Thief has to blow a cooldown or spent half of it’s global cooldown bar to get into stealth to perform Backstab.

If you can’t excel as a d/d thief in it’s current state i agree you should move to another games.

catnipkiller.5429:

I can count 4 times thats 4/5 skills on my d/d build that got nurfed. So should i just re roll before the class becomes a joke?

And you can still hit people for 16k+ even after the nerfs with d/d.

What are you crying about now?

What does nurfed mean?

Personally I say just do something about how long you can stay in stealth and the cooldowns on the stealth moves. Make it so they can’t go into stealth so often and can’t stay in it for long periods of time, and the problem is fixed. Or if they want to make it so you can still stay in it for long periods of time, then make it so a hit on somebody in stealth (not condition damage) will knock them out of it.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Personally I say just do something about how long you can stay in stealth and the cooldowns on the stealth moves. Make it so they can’t go into stealth so often and can’t stay in it for long periods of time, and the problem is fixed. Or if they want to make it so you can still stay in it for long periods of time, then make it so a hit on somebody in stealth (not condition damage) will knock them out of it.

The mechanic where thief taking damage breaks stealth will NEVER work in this game, unless they remove the ability to attack without a target. Cloak and dagger is a melee range skill the second they become stealthed they would be immediately hit out by whoever they are fighting.

How long in stealth is too long?

Personally I’ve never seen a thief in stealth longer than 2 seconds, but that’s because I’m usually attacked within that amount of time right after they go into stealth. Rangers…we’re pretty weak to most classes you know. I originally was going through the assumption that you guys had like a 10 second stealth, but I only now just looked at the times (I really should have to begin with) and saw the longest one you have is like 5 seconds. So ignore the too long thing. But dear god if you guys don’t go stealth so often. XD

Doomdesire.9365:

Warrior – endure pain, absorb backstab

Was that too hard to think of?

See the 0 damage, dodge, CnD, re-backstab.
Was that too hard to think of?

If you really don’t know, or have the most rudimentary timing required to pull off perma stealth in wuvwuv by level 20 on a thief then I am sorry for your physical disability.

To the guy with the “glass warrior” comment. Sorry, don’t run glass. Class doesn’t have hundreds of built in defense mechanisms like yours. Forced to run V/T stats on gear while traiting for defensive measures to survive in wuvwuv. How bout you try playing a sword/longbow warrior and see how it measures up to your thief? I know I’m enjoying the ever living kitten out of trolling people on my thief lately in W3.

It hasnt been nerfed enough. This class singlehandly ruined the fun of so many people i know. Every second enemy is a thief, for a reason.

Kontrolle.3514:

Every second enemy is a thief, for a reason.

Bandwagoners jumping on the FotM?

Honestly, I don’t see that many thieves running around unless something changed this last week while I’ve been cranking Far Cry 3.

Kontrolle.3514:

This class singlehandly ruined the fun of so many people i know.

I take u want your class to be the best dps

Side note …. if you cant kill a thief learn to play your class better i like thief but i perfer ranger

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Kaizer.7135:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

miringains.8653:

They should delete the thief class in this game, as they have done such a bad job making it worth playing, not enough beta tests I guess. Nerf the class to the ground like in SWTOR and then loose most players, this game will be truly f2p in no time.

Its true this is stupid 1 thief like from different game.

Dude you cry about every single thing, I bet if you uploaded a video of you playing it’d be funny as hell because you’d be so bad. I usually don’t say this but, Learn To Play.

If backstab gets nerfed and NOTHING else gets buffed, this class will only have P/D condition thief to run because of the lack of options ANet gives for other builds.

I play 8 years in GW and I kill 1v4 in Random Arena and I know what Im talking.
Thief must disapire from GW2 becose noobs like you cant learn to play GW2.
If you playing thief and you cant kill any onther char in 2-3 sec you just noob.

I make thief for test and on 20 lvl no 1 can kill me only different thief.

Well this isn’t GW1 LOL

And random arenas isn’t hard, because well, it’s random. You could run a 55monk and be paired with 4 idiot warriors.

EDIT: You got to lvl20, took your thief into WvW and couldn’t get killed by anyone? Not even another lvl80? Okay, you’re trolling.