Guild Wars 2

Burst:
– Thoughness
– Stun-breaker

Permastealth:
– Block
– Blind
– AoE
– CC

Now stop complaining about it.
Realy, I’m tired of seeing people who don’t know the class complaining in the foruns and asking for nerfs.

Decked.8274:

Burst:
– Thoughness

You mean vit.

Razeor.6271:

Decked.8274:

Burst:
– Thoughness

You mean vit.

no point to have 20k hp and 2000 armor against direct damage
is better 13 k hp and 3000 armor. it increase your EHP a lot

Vitality and Toughness are factored together for “Effective Health”.

20,000 hp with 50% damage mitigation can take just as much direct damage as 30,000 hp with 0% damage mitigation.

Obviously, condition damage ignores damage mitigation so is a somewhat different discussion.

Decked.8274:

Burst:
– Thoughness
– Stun-breaker

Permastealth:
– Block
– Blind
– AoE
– CC

Now stop complaining about it.
Realy, I’m tired of seeing people who don’t know the class complaining in the foruns and asking for nerfs.

Everyone has a stunbreaker and can be built with toughness so let’s look at the other list.

Ranger:

• Block – only on greatsword and it lasts 3 seconds while thief stealth lasts 4 seconds.
• Blind – only from pets (or sun spirit, lol), culling makes this difficult, and a thief can drop blind by auto-attacking air … which doesn’t break stealth
• AOE – traps, torch #5, and longbow #5. Could factor in melee attacks from sword/greatsword I guess.
• CC – Here we go … Ranger has a lot from both pets and weapons as well as 2 traps for this.

Summary:
You can see why the most common advice for Ranger vs Thief is “use traps”.

Mesmer:

• Block – Distortion (shatter and blurred frenzy), Scepter #2, OH Sword #4
• Blind – Scepter #2 (2nd activation), Glamours (traited), Torch #4, Chaos Armor (random)
• AoE – Shatters (not great vs stealth), Chaos Storm, Greatsword #3 … others aren’t great vs a stealth opponent and even the above aren’t wonderful … could include sword attacks
• CC – Daze (shatter), Daze OH Sword #4 (2nd activation), Pistol #5, Greatsword #5, Sword #3, etc. Plenty here.

Obvious why you don’t see Mesmers complain as much about Thieves as Rangers.

Those are the two I mainly play right now, so I’ll stop there and let others, if they want, do it for other classes.

I would like to add that Mesmer and Ranger suffer from an annoyance when fighting a stealthing Thief in that both class’s mechanic (Mesmer Illusions and Ranger pets) provide trivially easy targets for Thieves to land Cloak & Dagger on for stealth. It’s an example of where two classes are penalized by their mechanic with fighting against Thief with OH Dagger.

Ooor you could just dodge their Pre-CnD/Mug/BS, making them pretty much harmless. Might take a bit of practice, but rolling a thief yourself helps a lot. Also keep on the look out for Basilisk venoms/Assassin’s Signet: that’s when they’re likely to burst.

Also Shadow Steps.

Thief is only worth complaining in WvW due to culling, aside from that it’s a l2 kitten ue.

true but
if 13k hp and 3000 armor lose 80% of hp against initial burst, use heal skill for 6000 hp he can fight back with 80% of his HP
if 20k hp and 2000 armor lose 80% of hp against initial burst, use heal skill for 6000 hp he will be at 40% hp , he cannot fight back.
So personaly i sugest at least 2600 armor in wvwvw , before stack vitality

Sebrent.3625:

Decked.8274:

Burst:
– Thoughness
– Stun-breaker

Permastealth:
– Block
– Blind
– AoE
– CC

Now stop complaining about it.
Realy, I’m tired of seeing people who don’t know the class complaining in the foruns and asking for nerfs.

Everyone has a stunbreaker and can be built with toughness so let’s look at the other list.

---

Ranger:

• Block – only on greatsword and it lasts 3 seconds while thief stealth lasts 4 seconds.
• Blind – only from pets (or sun spirit, lol), culling makes this difficult, and a thief can drop blind by auto-attacking air … which doesn’t break stealth
• AOE – traps, torch #5, and longbow #5. Could factor in melee attacks from sword/greatsword I guess.
• CC – Here we go … Ranger has a lot from both pets and weapons as well as 2 traps for this.

Summary:
You can see why the most common advice for Ranger vs Thief is “use traps”.

---

Mesmer:

• Block – Distortion (shatter and blurred frenzy), Scepter #2, OH Sword #4
• Blind – Scepter #2 (2nd activation), Glamours (traited), Torch #4, Chaos Armor (random)
• AoE – Shatters (not great vs stealth), Chaos Storm, Greatsword #3 … others aren’t great vs a stealth opponent and even the above aren’t wonderful … could include sword attacks
• CC – Daze (shatter), Daze OH Sword #4 (2nd activation), Pistol #5, Greatsword #5, Sword #3, etc. Plenty here.

Obvious why you don’t see Mesmers complain as much about Thieves as Rangers.

---

Those are the two I mainly play right now, so I’ll stop there and let others, if they want, do it for other classes.

I would like to add that Mesmer and Ranger suffer from an annoyance when fighting a stealthing Thief in that both class’s mechanic (Mesmer Illusions and Ranger pets) provide trivially easy targets for Thieves to land Cloak & Dagger on for stealth. It’s an example of where two classes are penalized by their mechanic with fighting against Thief with OH Dagger.

Actualy regarding mesmers , i usualy own Sword /… mesmer, with my thief, but 1 week ago i made an duel vs condition mesmer (with staff ) . His attacks bounced me in stealth and the conditions did not allowed me to trade backstab for 3 seconds revealed. At first backstab i lost 10k hp , and i was forced to retreat on range, where i lost the duel.

See what the true question should be, is how to counter a thief, as a thief. Two stealth thieves makes for a very on edge and nail biting fight

RedSpectrum.1975:

See what the true question should be, is how to counter a thief, as a thief. Two stealth thieves makes for a very on edge and nail biting fight

backstab /lotus strike /double strike /wild strike icon , changes when you hit enemy , even stealthed ( add to this devourer vennom /panic strike-trait ) when you see the first auto attack icon changes use cloack and dager and backstab. and you kill the enemy thief stealthed.

RedSpectrum.1975:

See what the true question should be, is how to counter a thief, as a thief. Two stealth thieves makes for a very on edge and nail biting fight

good ol’ healadin fights are still more entertaining :P

Rayya.2591:

RedSpectrum.1975:

See what the true question should be, is how to counter a thief, as a thief. Two stealth thieves makes for a very on edge and nail biting fight

backstab /lotus strike /double strike /wild strike icon , changes when you hit enemy , even stealthed ( add to this devourer vennom /panic strike-trait ) when you see the first auto attack icon changes use cloack and dager and backstab. and you kill the enemy thief stealthed.

The auto attack trick I know, but what if he pops say, HiS a ways away from you? Do you start backpeddling swinging the air?

Ritt.3069:

Ooor you could just dodge their Pre-CnD/Mug/BS, making them pretty much harmless. Might take a bit of practice, but rolling a thief yourself helps a lot. Also keep on the look out for Basilisk venoms/Assassin’s Signet: that’s when they’re likely to burst.

Also Shadow Steps.

Thief is only worth complaining in WvW due to culling, aside from that it’s a l2 kitten ue.

That’d be good advice if, as I’ve stated in other threads, steal gave me at least a 0.5 second notice that it was being used as opposed to simply instantly placing a thief on me who has pre-casted C&D and is now stealth after doing upwards of 10k damage (if not tanky) and is about to perform a backstab in the next 3 to 4 seconds.

The steal and the backstab are both instant, no animation, no sound, so you can only guess when they are going to use them and I can’t waste 3 to 4 seconds of dodge rolls, blocks, distortion, etc. every time a thief stealths. I’ll quickly be out of defenses after the first 1 to 3 stealths … 3 only if playing a build with several blocks, vigor, etc.

Rayya.2591:

true but
if 13k hp and 3000 armor lose 80% of hp against initial burst, use heal skill for 6000 hp he can fight back with 80% of his HP
if 20k hp and 2000 armor lose 80% of hp against initial burst, use heal skill for 6000 hp he will be at 40% hp , he cannot fight back.
So personaly i sugest at least 2600 armor in wvwvw , before stack vitality

I generally agree with this, but I think it would be more intuitive to suggest to have a balanced ratio of vit/armor like: (vit + amount of health you can heal in a skirmish)/10 ~ armor.

Example : WvW thief has 16000 base hp, 1 HiS heals for 5.5k, can get 1k health returned from stealth – 2300 armor. This feels balanced, but my next defensive stat point goes to vit.

This changes depending on how you play wvw – some burst combos can clear low hp-high armor builds, so you may need more vit to survive initial burst. If your fat HP pool drops too fast and you can’t sustain your hp levels, get more armor.

Suggesting minimun 2600 armor kills light/medium armor builds since they have to heavily invest in toughness gear and tougness trait tree. An elementalist has base 1800 armor at 80 in full exotics. To get to 2600, gear and trinkets have to have toughness, as well as 30 points into earth magic trait line!

Cirax.9231:

Suggesting minimun 2600 armor kills light/medium armor builds since they have to heavily invest in toughness gear and tougness trait tree. An elementalist has base 1800 armor at 80 in full exotics. To get to 2600, gear and trinkets have to have toughness, as well as 30 points into earth magic trait line!

I took the base reference 2600 , since is the reference for skill coeficient calculations
On my build i managed to keep 2600 armor ( medium armor ) 16000 +hp and 114 critical damage , only with an lose on Power

Rayya.2591:

I took the base reference 2600 , since is the reference for skill coeficient calculations
On my build i managed to keep 2600 armor ( medium armor ) 16000 +hp and 114 critical damage , only with an lose on Power

Wow, my thief is in full exotics (I put my ascended gear on another character) and you have 500 more total stat points than me. It looks like you’re fully ascended/exotic, and some celestial stats, but I wasn’t aware it would make that huge of a difference, even if you had 25 stacks, food, etc.

Understandably for you, 2600 armor seems no problem while maintaining a good amount of offensive stats. I assume an average WvW player would be in full exotics, so it would not be as easy to reach such high armor without sacrificing a lot of offense.

Celestial gives ~33% total more stats.
Have to take into account that some of those are Vitality and +Healing; one or both of which are not viewed that favorably by some classes.

Healing is more effective for low HP and high toughness against direct damage. If you heal for 6000 with 3000 armor it’s much harder for that direct damage dude to get the 6000 hp back down than it is if you healed for 6000 with 2000 armor.

HP hp low toughness = good against retaliation and condition damage
Lower HP high toughness = good against direct damage.

As you well know, crying is easier then thinking for most people.

Decked.8274:

Burst:
– Thoughness
– Stun-breaker

Permastealth:
– Block
– Blind
– AoE
– CC

Now stop complaining about it.
Realy, I’m tired of seeing people who don’t know the class complaining in the foruns and asking for nerfs.

Op add boons to your list thief suck on lack of boons i hate it.

Why is it that the Thief is the ONLY profession that keeps telling others how to “kill them” on the forum? LOL, we know the answer — it’s because the Thief if OP, and those who enjoy being OP are desperately trying to keep it that way.

Their biggest fear is that maybe, just maybe, it is OP. And if so, what does that say about their ability to play the game? Maybe they really aren’t that good at the game after all. Maybe the majority is right, and it is a skill-less build.

Soon.5240:

we know the answer — it’s because the Thief if OP, and those who enjoy being OP are desperately trying to keep it that way.

We = who ? who you represent …. over 10000 ppls read forums every day, from that ppls
5-25 complains about thieves
Thief is OP= too much HP , too high acces to boons , too much CC, and the king of AOE
those who enjoy being OP =players that explain to glass cannons how to counter them…

I got your point

we elementalists are light-armor and already fully specced into survivability and still we get almost one-shot by you guys. I run a toughness/healing build and hit like a wet noodle. Add to that almost perma regen and protection and still I get burst by thieves. I dodge, block, aoe etc. Even equiped a focus in my off-hand and mistform in utility to survive just those few more seconds. Result I get killed before I even see the thief 5 times in 2 minutes. Ow and blind I used that too.