How to fight perma-evade condi thief

How to fight perma-evade condi thief

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Posted by: Jackalrat.5493

Jackalrat.5493

So, the usual shortcomings of a build that is incredibly powerful 1v1 (in a balanced system) is that its mobility is lacking. This is, of course, never the case for a thief. Thieves always have amazing mobility because they’re kings of weaving in and out of fights. Good thieves usually don’t want to just sit toe-to-toe.

But this…permanent evade build that DoTs you up. How do you fight this with a more traditional power build? Like rangers, guardians, warriors, necros, etc…

I’m not here to cry OP, just curious…is there any way to beat this? I’ve engaged them and had them just evade while killing me (relatively quickly). Seems they can dodge as many as 6 or 7 times consecutively. They can easily 100-0 most people in that time, I’d think.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

Kite.

The evade frames aren’t 100% so if you kite away you can avoid a lot of damage while dealing some. Also you can land stuns and immobilize in the gap between evades.

You need mobility and range to to fight it. Either that or a precision stun lockdown at the right time.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

What do you play?

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

The D/D Condi thief gives up a lot of mobility since it has to dump Ini into spamming DB, when they use DB the evade only lasts till the Apex of the Leap everything after isn’t an evade so you can CC them there, also Aoe s work great against this build.

If you can kite that forces them to use the evades defensively before engaging in Melee. Just look for the queues from DB, any daze/stun is certain death the same with Immobs. Don’t stand underneath the thief you will be loaded up with bleeds for days.

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Posted by: bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

Anyone got a link to this perma-evade condi build?

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Literally it is DA 1,2,1 Trick 1,1,3 DrD 3,2,1

With Channeled Vigor as Heal, Shadowstep Signet of Agility and Either Bandits defense or Skale Venom with Basi Venom as elite. Run Dire or Carrion with Krait runes or Rune of Thorns with Agony Sigil and I forget the Bleed duration Sigil

“Pro” d/d Condi Thieves Press 3 as hard and fast as possible while hitting dodge as well…… Repeat,

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Posted by: bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

Literally it is DA 1,2,1 Trick 1,1,3 DrD 3,2,1

With Channeled Vigor as Heal, Shadowstep Signet of Agility and Either Bandits defense or Skale Venom with Basi Venom as elite. Run Dire or Carrion with Krait runes or Rune of Thorns with Agony Sigil and I forget the Bleed duration Sigil

“Pro” d/d Condi Thieves Press 3 as hard and fast as possible while hitting dodge as well…… Repeat,

Surprised you aren’t using Acrobatics in there…

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Acro isn’t needed you can but it cuts into your damage by quite a bit

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Posted by: alchemyst.2165

alchemyst.2165

I’m glad somebody actually asked about this constructively.

Once you get down the evade timings, the fight is actually extremely easy, just annoying.

Death blossom evade ends about after the peak of the jump; time your CC’s then. You can also hit someone at the end of their dodge (if they don’t double dodge), my friend likes to call it “evade cutting” but this is a bit harder to do.

Basically, just kite around and watch them flip around aimlessly. Periodically, they run out of things to do. Use that moments to CC them, maybe bait some stunbreaks, immob them, etc. It’s all about timing. The mistake most people make is just to keep attacking even when they just keep evading; don’t do this. Don’t waste your CC’s randomly, time it at the end of their evade to cut it off or cut off their death blossom.

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Posted by: Kirochique.9186

Kirochique.9186

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lCFOhVOB+OB8PhFqiaO77+w37C+gtrrnCgDA-TpRAQBTsMgCOEA9Y/hF8AAi2RAAAnAAA

The Build in Question, Swap for viper amulet for extra damage but loose the ability to never die

Jhadir the Charr Thief (ET) EradonTerrace
All the dodge!

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Posted by: Sifu.9745

Sifu.9745

Kite.

Just try it. Thief can then swap to P/D and Immobilize you over and over again while dodging and running to you and also doing nice pressure to you with aa and Venoms. And if you are still alive he’s in your range within seconds for D/D weapon set
If he uses SB instead of P/D than you have a bit easier yob but then he can simply #5, #5, #5 away from you to reset the fight.

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Kite.

Just try it. Thief can then swap to P/D and Immobilize you over and over again while dodging and running to you and also doing nice pressure to you with aa and Venoms. And if you are still alive he’s in your range within seconds for D/D weapon set
If he uses SB instead of P/D than you have a bit easier yob but then he can simply #5, #5, #5 away from you to reset the fight.

The problem with them using those other weapon swaps is they are still drained of Initiative in most cases, it isn’t hard to kite them, if they are using the P/D they will be stuck with no ini for the DB spam after weapon swap. It’s one of the spam builds that if you don’t constantly spam the same skill it is harder by far to down people.

They lack the utility that thieves need to prolong / survive most match ups outside of evade spamming. It is far easier to kite a 900 range weapon than you make it out to be

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

P/D is superior to D/D for condi.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

The first key to fighting them is movement. When they start there DB chain just move out of range as the DB damage has limited range. They will either DB chain towards you , burning INI on nothing, or try and switch up to another attack wherein it easier for you to counter.

The last thing you want to do is engage at melee on their terms.

Step two is time those evade frames and hit as he in the vulnerable portion. Remember as well a DB is not directional. You will know exactly where he will land and can drop traps/wells/AOE on that spot as you move out of his range.

A DB spamming thief will have little in the way of stun breaks or Immob breaks and once they stunned ot Imobbed can be wrecked.

I use a CORE P/D condition build with high condition durations and Number 2 can wreck these guys. You imobb with number 2 (or distracting daggers or some such) load on your own conditions and just move off. You STOP attacking when they are doing their DB spam unless you can get that timing of attacks between frames down pat.

Keep this in mind. They count on you attacking during the evade frame to garner heals and condition cleanses. This is why the build can do so very well against more enemies if those enemies all try and engage at melee. There more chances to proc an evade.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

P/D is superior to D/D for condi.

Agreed, In particular if you focus on getting your base durations up. As well if facing d/d condi on p/d condi the latter should win most every fight by using pistol 2.

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

P/D is superior to D/D for condi.

Yes it can be more superior but it hinders the build when paired with D/D, I can say that P/D has never been an issue to face for me on a pure Zerker thief running Pure glass, the DB spammers give more headaches than P/D.

P/D provides more skillful play that can be better with the utility and Condi damage / kiting ability but it’s not a better build in the context of the "Perma"evade Thieves just sitting on point spamming DB and Dodges especially in PvP where they can actually sit on point.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

I wouldn’t pair D/D and P/D for the redundancy, lack of combo field, and loss of mobility.

Sitting on point is an option but makes D/D tied to a vulnerable target —stand off point and shoot them.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Taobella.6597

Taobella.6597

someone ask me to help them in WvW forums about how to achieve a gun flame on eva’ing thief here i will show you. it show there punish frame in between dodge frame.

but if you want straight up builds that hard counter it retal guard and con warrior really effective against it.

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Posted by: Jugglemonkey.8741

Jugglemonkey.8741

Acro isn’t needed you can but it cuts into your damage by quite a bit

Depends how you play it really. If you camp D/D and engage with heal>steal>sheathe weapon for the needle trap proc and poison on steal then spam 3, DA is better damage hands down. What acro lets you do is apply condis almost constantly at the cost of having more of a build up to your damage. Use the condi dodge in poison fields on shortbow for extra poison stacks, save ini when on shortbow and dodges when on D/D, and use geomancy/energy sigils on both sets. I’ve had 20-25 stacks of bleeding on people without krait runes, plus poison, confusion and torment ticks, it’s still a lot of damage (4k tick combined easily) and I get the extra sustain from acro to boot. Using shortbow more actively makes the build a lot more mobile too.

That said I haven’t played it since the last balance patch, I don’t know precisely why but it stopped being as effective as it used to be. I used to like scorpion wire with plex runes on that build tho, so maybe it’s just less fun to me after the rune changes.

Critical Kit, Thief.
Don’t follow me, unless you enjoy being chased by angry men with sticks.
Power Build Condi Build

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

There are two Condi DD Builds out there. The most Common are the ones who use Burst Condi damage. but they are not the Perma Evade build i think you are talking about. here is how to kill either one per each class you play.

Warrior

  • Fight as normal, but try and time your dazes when you see Death Blossom. Your resistance will protect you long enough to do this.

Dragon Hunter

  • Just play DH as normal.

Other Guardians burn/ symbols, etc

  • you should win easily because of your defenses, also we cannot dodge your teleport/Symbol combos.

Power Mesmer

  • if you get the drop on the thief you’ll win easily.
  • if you don’t get the drop on the theif kite until you get one good burst on them. it won’t take long.

Condi mesmer

  • Kiting is your only real option.

Necromancer

  • Time a plague signet at the end of a Death blossom. We will have to waste our heal early to counter it.
  • Terror mancers’ can take out our stun breaks very quickly

Power Ranger

  • Immobilize us and don’t waste that moment to burst us.

Bunker ranger

  • Imobilize us, and keep your stupid healing wall between us and you.

Scrapper

  • Fight as normal, you have more sustain than we do, more damage than we do,

Engineer

  • Kite us and fight as normal

Thief

  • Kite long enough to get a burst off. by the time you get even a small burts off we will likelly be low enough for it to kill us.

Bunker elementalist

  • The only chance we have of doing enough damage to kill you is to stop evading and start using AA. if we do this, you can kill us with your stupid Air overload.

Fresh Air

  • We cannot dodge your Air overload completly, if you are running your storm glyph, we cannot dodge that completely either. in fact anything you do we cannot really dodge completly, so just kite us. and fight as normal

Power/Revenant

  • Unless you catch us offguard, i’m sorry you will loose. But time your burst at the end of a deathblossom and you may do enough damage to kill us.

Condi/Revenant

  • You win, because continuous torment application, turns our build against it’s self.

    Classes that typically i never fear when playing this build
  • Necromancers: They have all the tools to be able to kill me, they just never use them correctly
  • Rangers: Again, they should have the easiest time killing me besides DH, but they rarely manage it in 1v1s.
  • Mesmers: Typically easy kills if i even need to kill them
  • Engineer’s: I can decap off and engineer then get away fairly easilly
  • Bad warriors; because they don’t know how to time their attacks they are easy kills, though it may take a few moments.

Classes i hate fighting

  • Good warriors.: A single well times Burst can either kill me or cripple my ability to pressure.
  • Bad DHs: because DH
  • Good DH’s: Because DH
  • Mediocre DH’s: because DH
  • Good Scrappers: because sustain and damage

(edited by emkelly.2371)

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Well you might use carrion and P/P as backup set to kill those anoying DH. this also gives you some ups option if someone kites you …

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

and sacrifice shortbow?

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

IMO four main condi builds:

1. D/P Poison stacking stealth low-evade.
2. D/D Death Blossum “perma” evade
3. Ghost Thief
4. Lotus Training Interrupt

Each has significant weaknesses. One and Four are the two most dangerous IMO. Four requires the most skill as timing Interrupts in bunker meta is an art. One outplays them all in 1v1. Three is only useful in group play.

Death Blossom builds have a hitch between attacks making them open to easy counters by a decent player.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

IMO four main condi builds:

1. D/P Poison stacking stealth low-evade.
2. D/D Death Blossum “perma” evade
3. Ghost Thief
4. Lotus Training Interrupt

Each has significant weaknesses. One and Four are the two most dangerous IMO. Four requires the most skill as timing Interrupts in bunker meta is an art. One outplays them all in 1v1. Three is only useful in group play.

Death Blossom builds have a hitch between attacks making them open to easy counters by a decent player.

You are grouping two D/D Condi build into one. there are two. One uses Deadly Arts, the other Does Not. Also, while Death Blossom does have an after cast, a smart DD Thief does not spam it for that very reason.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

And you forgot one

5. P/D condition build

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

IMO four main condi builds:

1. D/P Poison stacking stealth low-evade.
2. D/D Death Blossum “perma” evade
3. Ghost Thief
4. Lotus Training Interrupt

Each has significant weaknesses. One and Four are the two most dangerous IMO. Four requires the most skill as timing Interrupts in bunker meta is an art. One outplays them all in 1v1. Three is only useful in group play.

Death Blossom builds have a hitch between attacks making them open to easy counters by a decent player.

You are grouping two D/D Condi build into one. there are two. One uses Deadly Arts, the other Does Not. Also, while Death Blossom does have an after cast, a smart DD Thief does not spam it for that very reason.

Death Blossom/Sheathe Weapon/Dodge (with Lotus Training) should be one smooth sequence. It removes most of the after cast frames on Death Blossom where you could be hit after the peak of the attack. You also apply your conditions much faster.

The reason the build is not effective in PvP meta right now is because DHs and Berserkers are basically hard counters because of fields and heavy anti-condition builds. Aura Eles was always a bit of an issue due to anti-burst tankiness.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

i do just fine with in pvp ranked.

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Posted by: Chorazin.4107

Chorazin.4107

This is what i run into mostly for roamingFor sPvP id imagine it would be reasonably easily countered due to the lack of tanky style amulets?

But for WvW it’s a pretty low risk high reward build. You can easily be rocking around with close to or beyond 3k armour with dire/trailblazers. Making a burst, even if it lands with the Death Blossom/Sheathe Weapon/Dodge trick not overly scary.

Kiting im not sure would work at all, they will gap close with steal at 1200 rng(albeit on a 26sec cooldown) and shadow shot at 900 rng. And can forgo something for shadow step. On top of this they will be running uncatchable to make sure it’s difficult to get away with those cripple stacks and a couple stacks of torment as icing on the cake from say pressure striking.

Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

This is what i run into mostly for roamingFor sPvP id imagine it would be reasonably easily countered due to the lack of tanky style amulets?

But for WvW it’s a pretty low risk high reward build. You can easily be rocking around with close to or beyond 3k armour with dire/trailblazers. Making a burst, even if it lands with the Death Blossom/Sheathe Weapon/Dodge trick not overly scary.

Kiting im not sure would work at all, they will gap close with steal at 1200 rng(albeit on a 26sec cooldown) and shadow shot at 900 rng. And can forgo something for shadow step. On top of this they will be running uncatchable to make sure it’s difficult to get away with those cripple stacks and a couple stacks of torment as icing on the cake from say pressure striking.

Yes, that one is easier to counter because it does not have a way to continuously refresh Endurance and Initiative.

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Posted by: Chorazin.4107

Chorazin.4107

Yes, that one is easier to counter because it does not have a way to continuously refresh Endurance and Initiative.

Maybe not continuously but you dont need to continuously refresh when you are rocking around with near perma vigor that is 50% more effective.

For endurance refresh
- Signet of agility every 30 seconds to refresh your endurance
- Vigorous recovery for vigor on heal skill use for 10 seconds
- Feline grace with a 1 second ICD that grants 5 seconds of vigor on an evade
- Hard to catch with a 30 sec ICD that refills endurance again
- Endless stamina so the effectiveness of endurance is increased by 50% on you
- Endurance thief where you gain 50 endurance upon a successful steal
- Energy sigils on both weapons if you think you need more endurance(WvW version)

For init refresh
- Kleptomaniac, stealing gives you 2 init
- Preparedness, initiative is increased by 3
- Upper hand with a 2sec ICD to regain 1 initiative on an evade

That is a hell of a lot of vigor(that is 50% more effective)/refill endurance abilities.

Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]

(edited by Chorazin.4107)

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

5. P/D condition build

You are grouping two D/D Condi build into one. there are two.

My post is about the main condi builds, not all the condi builds. Those are the four condi builds I square off against regularly. There are numerous variations of all the above. My belief that 1 and 4 are the most dangerous is based on what has killed or nearly killed me in the past.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

I came across one of these perma evade condi thieves in PvP…pretty trolly if you ask me. Saw he was in my next match (against me again) so I thought I would see how it dealt with one of my special troll builds. Lets just say that according to my Say chat, he didn’t like it. I was the only one on my team he couldn’t troll/harass/kill. Good thing about fighting a build like his, they are typically kitteny and like to fight.

Good thing about the one I used…Can’t kill what you can’t see

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

P/d with needle trap and respite will destroy perma evade condi. The P/D build can be CORE and handle the DD evade builds handily. The higher the condition duration the better as that 2 second body shot immob then comes into play.

The evade build can not function it it always immobbed.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

P/d with needle trap and respite will destroy perma evade condi. The P/D build can be CORE and handle the DD evade builds handily. The higher the condition duration the better as that 2 second body shot immob then comes into play.

The evade build can not function it it always immobbed.

LOL. Oh how little you know about the Gingerbread Man if you think it’s ever scared of Immobilize. Or Dazes, or Condi, or anything save Unavoidable, unblockable, un-dodgable damage or traps and anything with a condi spike at least on par with a properly used Plague Signet

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

P/d with needle trap and respite will destroy perma evade condi. The P/D build can be CORE and handle the DD evade builds handily. The higher the condition duration the better as that 2 second body shot immob then comes into play.

The evade build can not function it it always immobbed.

LOL. Oh how little you know about the Gingerbread Man if you think it’s ever scared of Immobilize. Or Dazes, or Condi, or anything save Unavoidable, unblockable, un-dodgable damage or traps and anything with a condi spike at least on par with a properly used Plague Signet

I played DB evade build out of beta and understand perfectly how it works.

Your points on “not worrying about immobs” might apply to other classes that have 1 source of the same very 15 seconds or more but they do not apply to a p/d thief built for them.

Body shot spam alone gives 5 sources before Ini gone. There needle trap times 2 and panic strike. if desired one can go DD and add in impairing daggers.

Now it not reuqired that all of these take. You can use your wihdraw and break one, your RFI and break another , your don’t stop for a third, but there still more coming and all that is needed is for ONE to land.

When that one lands the spike condition damage follows. This can be something like 8 poison, 8 bleeds 5 confusion, three torment , vulnerabilty weakness and cripple all in an instant with the p/d build at range when it all ends meaning you now have to get to him with your DB spam to do any damage.

As to conditions not mattering. It simply not the case. Once that spike of conditions on you the P/d user does not have to attack. He can keep at range and not allow you a cleanse with EA.

Now here is another thing. Body Shot can be very hard to land on a enemy using normal movement. The projectile speed is slow and is often sidestepped or outrun through normal movement.

Such is not the case with a person in an evade such as DB or Vault. You get your timing of that shot right and the shot will hit. There little the person using DB or vault can do about that once in the animation.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

should have added /sarcasm to my post. sorry for the confusion.

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Posted by: Deathrubber.3861

Deathrubber.3861

heres my advice for the acro condi thieves if u need it.
He has his best chances in 1v1 onpoint. especially if hes the opener.
your chances are doubled if u fight him in an open area as he only has full potential in close range and keeps himself alive by evading. more: there is almost no stealth.

as meta necro, war and mesmer the key is to strike only if u need to or u are sure it hits (immob, cc). every evade by thief means cleans, heal, vigor and swift. also pain response triggers if u hit them. so basiclly, YOU are the one removing thiefs conditions.
then theres shadowstep but if u make the condithief use this in 1v1 it means u have good chances.

For meta Rev, Thief, scrapper and druid it is madatory to rupt channeled vigor and watch for the imp.daggers/steal/dodge burst as this means 7 conditions in 1 sec with more then 15k dmg through poison only. if u manage to block/dodge the burst the thief needs to act more offensive by using the dd autochain more often. this means less dodges for him and more rupts/bursts for u. to better your chances watch bandits defense 12sec cooldown. place your bursts in between and dont give them access to the reflexive strike (chain). dont think the strike wont hit because hes not in range. i like to use reflexive strike midsteal to set up my impairing daggers or an autochain.
with some practise u can rupt death blossoms pre- or aftercast. if u manage to keep rupting db the thief has no chance at all.

Pay close attention to your own conditions and care my advice now. Besides the single conditons effect (slow, immob, cripple,..) every condition the thief applys serves another purpose: so u dont remove poison but remove the others. poison is the main dmg source and i apply all the other conditons so u dont remove it. Heres an example:
If i do a simple imp.daggers/steal/dodge combo, then opposing thiefs shadowstep, mesmers cleanse or necros passive proc will cleanse some conditions, but most likely not poison. care ur timing so u clean especially this one.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

not bad advice, but what about if they are using Withdraw?

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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

d/d condi thief is the ultimate predator, the only thing you can do when one approaches you is using /kneel and hoping for mercy

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: Zelulose.8695

Zelulose.8695

Honestly staff perma evade thief is worse in team fights. I have seen them so confident in their evades they go berserker and pop 6-9k vaults. It is also the passive acrobatics trait they buffed thief with. 50% hp 2 seconds of evade was bound to make perma evade thief toxic on power or condition.

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Posted by: Deathrubber.3861

Deathrubber.3861

not bad advice, but what about if they are using Withdraw?

unless he cancels his own heal withdraw will put the thief in a unfavorable position where u may profit from. tho hes losing heaps of offen- and defensive potential without CV cause its 85 endurance with more heal on less cd for the class who profits most from endurance. only the first pulse heals just as much as pulmory impact hurts u.

Honestly staff perma evade thief is worse in team fights. I have seen them so confident in their evades they go berserker and pop 6-9k vaults. It is also the passive acrobatics trait they buffed thief with. 50% hp 2 seconds of evade was bound to make perma evade thief toxic on power or condition.

vault hits hard but the chance is very low to hit above average opponents because its just too obvious. I dont think the instant reflexes makes sense in any kind of pvp build compared to pain response. Just like Panice Strike or Executioner u can easily anticipate the next moves.

(edited by Deathrubber.3861)

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

not bad advice, but what about if they are using Withdraw?

unless he cancels his own heal withdraw will put the thief in a unfavorable position where u may profit from. tho hes losing heaps of offen- and defensive potential without CV cause its 85 endurance with more heal on less cd for the class who profits most from endurance. even the first pulse heals more then pulmory impact hurts u.

Honestly staff perma evade thief is worse in team fights. I have seen them so confident in their evades they go berserker and pop 6-9k vaults. It is also the passive acrobatics trait they buffed thief with. 50% hp 2 seconds of evade was bound to make perma evade thief toxic on power or condition.

vault hits hard but the chance is very low to hit above average opponents because its just too obvious. I dont think the instant reflexes makes sense in any kind of pvp build compared to pain response. Just like Panice Strike or Executioner u can easily anticipate the next moves.

I happen to play Gingerbread Man, and I use withdraw. you should know that you can aim where you withdraw to. It is very rare for me to end up where i don’t want to end up when i use it. all you have to do is spin your camera in the opposite direction you want to withdraw too. Its even easier with Combat Camera

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Posted by: Deathrubber.3861

Deathrubber.3861

you should know that you can aim where you withdraw to

u dont kittening say

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Posted by: Korochun.5862

Korochun.5862

The major failing of condi Thieves is that they are literally dealing only two conditions – poison and bleed. Having any sort of a 2+ condi cleanse available means you can’t actually die to them unless you just aren’t paying attention. Wait for them to drop all their initiative on Death Blossom spam, cleanse, heal, pressure. By the time they can counter pressure you, your cleanse and heal should be back up, and they would have been kiting off point anyway.

Anyone who has AoEs can basically drop them on point and go AFK. I don’t think it’s physically possible for a Druid to actually die to a condi thief. So yeah, they shouldn’t be a big problem.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

You are forgetting torment and confusion

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Posted by: Deathrubber.3861

Deathrubber.3861

they are literally dealing only two conditions – poison and bleed

the midsteal impdaggers + dodge in choking gas means cripple, torment, bleeding, slow, immob, weakness and 14 stacks of poison. everythin in less then a second. get your facts right.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

they are literally dealing only two conditions – poison and bleed

the midsteal impdaggers + dodge in choking gas means cripple, torment, bleeding, slow, immob, weakness and 14 stacks of poison. everythin in less then a second. get your facts right.

Also, Lotus Training dodge alone gives Torment and Cripple (and Bleed) for condition type cover too.

It’s condition spam after all. Waiting out for the Thief to apply all those conditions after going through their perma-evade rotation (~6s-7s) and then cleansing is a sure way to die to the Thief because it’s not like the Thief is going to stand back and not keep the pressure on if you wait that long to cleanse.

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Posted by: Kirochique.9186

Kirochique.9186

The major failing of condi Thieves is that they are literally dealing only two conditions – poison and bleed. Having any sort of a 2+ condi cleanse available means you can’t actually die to them unless you just aren’t paying attention. Wait for them to drop all their initiative on Death Blossom spam, cleanse, heal, pressure. By the time they can counter pressure you, your cleanse and heal should be back up, and they would have been kiting off point anyway.

Anyone who has AoEs can basically drop them on point and go AFK. I don’t think it’s physically possible for a Druid to actually die to a condi thief. So yeah, they shouldn’t be a big problem.

You would cleanse those condi’s and then 4 seconds later you will have just as many condi’s. You would have to have a permanent condi cleanse to go up agains one because they only have a 4 second cool down from evade condi spamming you for 30 seconds

Jhadir the Charr Thief (ET) EradonTerrace
All the dodge!

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

You are forgetting torment and confusion

Yep. The good ones apply their 5 stacks of confusion and immediately cover it with a host of conditions including bleeds, cripple, torment, poison, weakness, vulnerability, etc. Without an actual clear, it can be nearly impossible for some builds to cut through the application to get to confusion. Before the Plex nerf, it was impossible for all but the strongest condi cleanse.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

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Posted by: Kicker.8203

Kicker.8203

You can also hit someone at the end of their dodge (if they don’t double dodge)

You can always hit them between dodges even if they double dodge if timed right. The evade downtime between 2 dodges is as match as you ping if you time it perfectly but most people don’t, so it’s even more.

Good advices tho, deathly blossom can be kited and has an evade downtime at the end where they can’t even cancel it by dodge rolling.