Guild Wars 2

When you look at stealth on weapon set, either it be CnD or BP+HS, your traits define how long you can stay or stack stealth. We have a lot of traits that increases init regen or, for the lack of a better term, refund init. Some of these traits are needed in some builds such as D/D, S/D, ect to maintain burst damage. If you nerf a trait because of stealth chaining such as BP+HS, other builds will be indirectly affected which may or may not be warranted.

Does D/P need a nerf to stealth uptime? I feel like they do and some may disagree with me. But for the purpose of this post, lets assume Anet wants to tone down stealth uptime of D/P users in WvW. They are content with D/P in Spvp but the uptime is a bit too much in WvW.

I would suggest the following change to balance stealth stacking in WvW:

- Smoke Combo Fields
-Gain Stealth with Leap Finish
-Stealth duration gain from stealth combo reduce to 2 sec.

As of right now, you can go 0/30/30/10/0 with D/P and still be bursty with high stealth uptime. The decrease in stealth duration via combo will really force D/P players to pick between damage or stealth uptime. i.e. 0/30/30/10/0 for burst but lower stealth uptime or 0/0/30/25/15 etc for lower burst but higher stealth uptime.

so basically you want to DP to choose between our one viable (because of anets changes) way to play, or be able to stealth..survive, and not kill.

sounds kitten backwards to me.

also what about D/D or just x/D? thats ok with its own level of stealth? yet D/P who while can enter stealth more reliably, has to expend noticeably more initiative to do so, is the culprit?

as far as stealth stacking goes, ive yet to see a post by anet saying thakittens bad or unintentional, until then, talking about nerfing it has no real merit.

sorry, i understand your trying to be constructive with this post, and i dont fault you for it certainly. But i fail to see how D/P is anything more then what the other sets should strive for, a well rounded set that has all useful abilities and can support a group offensively as well as provide good solo capability.

Doesn’t need a fix. The thief is already one of the weakest classes in the game.

Overall:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-present-Vote-for-the-worst-Results/first

PvP:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30/first

Instead of nerf threads, maybe it is time to start focusing on thief buff threads.

I consider the problem with this class wholely related to initiative regen. This means I don’t think the class can be fixed by ignoring the traits and skills and simply changing the mechanics of a skill.

Now that said, and if I wanted to approach the complaint of the day by nerfing D/P in particular, the obvious target is the smoke combo field like you said.

I think the best way to do it is simply change leap finishers for the field entirely though as simply giving them 2 seconds of stealth instead of 3 doesn’t resolve anything. While it’s nice to imagine that people have a gripe with perma stealth, their real issue is the damage and time in stealth while in combat. Leaving stealth attached to the leap finisher isn’t going to resolve this.

Instead, since pistol is more of a defensive weapon, why not just change the leap finisher to provide protection or aegis?

Wolfe.3097:

so basically you want to DP to choose between our one viable (because of anets changes) way to play, or be able to stealth..survive, and not kill.

sounds kitten backwards to me.

also what about D/D or just x/D? thats ok with its own level of stealth? yet D/P who while can enter stealth more reliably, has to expend noticeably more initiative to do so, is the culprit?

as far as stealth stacking goes, ive yet to see a post by anet saying thakittens bad or unintentional, until then, talking about nerfing it has no real merit.

sorry, i understand your trying to be constructive with this post, and i dont fault you for it certainly. But i fail to see how D/P is anything more then what the other sets should strive for, a well rounded set that has all useful abilities and can support a group offensively as well as provide good solo capability.

How is this any differant than a D/D spec going 25/30/0/0/15 for max damage and a 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/10/0 for some burst + some toughness? Everyone should be forced to pick one side or the other.

Devs said stealth stacking is bad or unintended. They just don’t know what to do about it.

style.6173:

Doesn’t need a fix. The thief is already one of the weakest classes in the game.

Overall:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-present-Vote-for-the-worst-Results/first

PvP:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30/first

Instead of nerf threads, maybe it is time to start focusing on thief buff threads.

Again, this is a WvW post. In WvW, the thief is the king in solo/small scale fights.

I like your idea OP!

My personal problem with this weapon set is the blinds. I dont care about stealth, running away, or backstabs —> (I can take 2 of a thieves best backstabs in a row on my thief befor having to heal). But BP aoe blind, BP shooting out a ranged blind, #3 gap closer with blind, heartseeker (if traited) creates blind. THATS TO MUCH blind.

It makes it really hard for a melee class to counter.. i run sword thief for example and i literally cannot hit a d/p thief.. not because they are good lol but because they are blinding me without even realising it most of the time.. i now have to run d/p as secondary just to kill them I hate the cheezy weapon set

they get rewarded for wearing beserker gear and spamming blinds .. its sad..
and this new change to blinds only makes it worse

FOR A START to bring this weapon set inline.. get rid of the BP blinding shot.. for a start!
I think that would do alot!!!!

if they want to blind somebody outside of the circle.. could use head shot for combo finisher.. now thats fair

@OP

Your whole premise is based on the assumption that the problem is the stealth uptime. Because it’s not the problem, you will fall into the same pitfall that Anet have fell into for several months now.

Failure to identify the problem will not bring solution, but more problems (just look at Anet’s track record).

So you need to think hard and dig deep — WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Hurtappl.6405:

I like your idea OP!

My personal problem with this weapon set is the blinds. I dont care about stealth, running away, or backstabs —> (I can take 2 of a thieves best backstabs in a row on my thief befor having to heal). But BP aoe blind, BP shooting out a ranged blind, #3 gap closer with blind, heartseeker (if traited) creates blind. THATS TO MUCH blind.

It makes it really hard for a melee class to counter.. i run sword thief for example and i literally cannot hit a d/p thief.. not because they are good lol but because they are blinding me without even realising it most of the time.. i now have to run d/p as secondary just to kill them I hate the cheezy weapon set

they get rewarded for wearing beserker gear and spamming blinds .. its sad..
and this new change to blinds only makes it worse

FOR A START to bring this weapon set inline.. get rid of the BP blinding shot.. for a start!
I think that would do alot!!!!

Stealth and now blind? If you can’t melee it… RANGE it! Problem solved.

Could heartseeker be given a second skill in a small chain in the same way as larcenous strike? If this second skill was given a longer animation, high damage, high initiative cost, not a finisher, then might it give more balanced play?

Stooperdale.3560:

Could heartseeker be given a second skill in a small chain in the same way as larcenous strike? If this second skill was given a longer animation, high damage, high initiative cost, not a finisher, then might it give more balanced play?

This is actually an interesting idea if they want us to stop chaining into stealth. Although theres a lot of experienced players that would stand in my aoe waiting for me to heartseek into them to trigger revelation debuff.

Stooperdale.3560:

Could heartseeker be given a second skill in a small chain in the same way as larcenous strike? If this second skill was given a longer animation, high damage, high initiative cost, not a finisher, then might it give more balanced play?

Dagger main hand weapon sets are supposed to be quick attacks, it would make no sense to do this. I think D/P is fine, if they truly think this set is too good then I think the only change should be reducing the duration of the black powder field, but also slightly reduce the initiative cost as well.

I mean seriously though Thief is only considered good in 1v1 WvW roaming, I actually wouldn’t even say it’s the strongest, just the most likely to slip away if things go bad.

EDIT: Keep in mind you can actually stand outside of the black powder radius and hit thieves inside it with melee too.

tired of hearing really dumb threads like this. what does it affect if a thief can stay in stealth for a 1 hour with 1 skill for 1 init? nothing….. doesnt affect team score in spvp or anything in wvw. the ONLY thing it might affect is 1 v 1 and THAT has no place in this game. so again another dumb thread with pointless QQing.

MIrra.3604:

Wolfe.3097:

so basically you want to DP to choose between our one viable (because of anets changes) way to play, or be able to stealth..survive, and not kill.

sounds kitten backwards to me.

also what about D/D or just x/D? thats ok with its own level of stealth? yet D/P who while can enter stealth more reliably, has to expend noticeably more initiative to do so, is the culprit?

as far as stealth stacking goes, ive yet to see a post by anet saying thakittens bad or unintentional, until then, talking about nerfing it has no real merit.

sorry, i understand your trying to be constructive with this post, and i dont fault you for it certainly. But i fail to see how D/P is anything more then what the other sets should strive for, a well rounded set that has all useful abilities and can support a group offensively as well as provide good solo capability.

How is this any differant than a D/D spec going 25/30/0/0/15 for max damage and a 10/30/30/0/0 or 0/30/30/10/0 for some burst + some toughness? Everyone should be forced to pick one side or the other.

Devs said stealth stacking is bad or unintended. They just don’t know what to do about it.

if stealth stacking is bad fine, i dont care, fix that, dont nerf D/P into the ground in other ways.

and thats my point, why can D/D have nice things but D/P cant? thats the logic im seeing with the OP

Travlane.5948:

tired of hearing really dumb threads like this. what does it affect if a thief can stay in stealth for a 1 hour with 1 skill for 1 init? nothing….. doesnt affect team score in spvp or anything in wvw. the ONLY thing it might affect is 1 v 1 and THAT has no place in this game. so again another dumb thread with pointless QQing.

1v1’s occur in SPvP and, in any sort of non-zerg pvp, the effects of 1v1 balance can be felt. “1v1 balance doesn’t matter” has been BS every single time a dev team in any game has said it. Moreover, I don’t think they ever have. The community has always just invented the philosophy.

The real problem with Thief is that ANet never addresses the actual issues people have with thief. Today I got opened on by a thief for a 2500 mug + 7500 CnD + 14000 backstab with 2600 toughness (as a level 80 thief).

I remember playing in SPvP with the Basilisk venom -> Assassin Signet -> CnD -> Steal -> Backstab build and it was the most garbage I have ever witnessed in an MMO. What does ANet do? Nerfs S/D.

This kitten is still in the game. 24,000 damage combo that takes 1 second on 2600 toughness. It’s not a matter of how effective it is in tournament SPvP or WvW. It’s a matter of perception – and what people perceive is instant death that they never saw coming.

Instead of nerfing the actual BS with thieves they nerfed literally everything else.

Let me summarize this thread so far those short on time:

I can’t kill thief → nerf thief
Thief hit me hard → nerf thief
Thief hard to find → nerf stealth
Thief hit me hard with dagger → nerf thief dagger not thief sword

yw

Travlane.5948:

tired of hearing really dumb threads like this. what does it affect if a thief can stay in stealth for a 1 hour with 1 skill for 1 init? nothing….. doesnt affect team score in spvp or anything in wvw. the ONLY thing it might affect is 1 v 1 and THAT has no place in this game. so again another dumb thread with pointless QQing.

I usually disagree with everything Trav says, but this, so kittening much this * infinity.

Thieves could be given a 60 second stealth utility with a 1 second cool down and it would be just as useless for actual objectives as any form of stealth stacking. The only thing it would be useful for is open world PvE and practically no class has any trouble there because of how easy it is.

morbidillusion.2759:

The real problem with Thief is that ANet never addresses the actual issues people have with thief. Today I got opened on by a thief for a 2500 mug + 7500 CnD + 14000 backstab with 2600 toughness (as a level 80 thief).

You would have 2600 armour, not toughness, and that’s really not that much. All that means is that you have soldiers armour and 30 in Shadow Arts. Considering you’re a Thief, you’re not supposed to be able to soak damage. Also, Guild Wars 2 is about active defence, not passive, so don’t expect any class to soak hits. Finally, unless you were naked and the Thief had high might stacks, those numbers aren’t possible.

morbidillusion.2759:

Instead of nerfing the actual BS with thieves they nerfed literally everything else.

Actually, BV, CnD and Mug have all been nerfed, and tbh, I haven’t died to the BS combo in months, perhaps you should rebind your stun breaker to something easy like middleclick (you do carry Shadowstep for your breaker, right?) until you get used to using it when you get BV’d.

Until somebody can explain how a Thief in stealth is actually negatively affecting objectives in WvW/PvP for anyone but his own team, stealth stacking is 100% balanced and does not need a fix.

end;

I got this:

Remove blind from #3
Remove blind shot from #5
Reduce the blind field duration of #5 to 3sec

tadaa fixed.