Guild Wars 2

To all the knee-jerk thief haters: These change suggestions support weapon sets other than P/D stealth cheese. If you like fighting against that then please flame on, otherwise support this.

1. Bring back C&D’s previous PvE damage levels and add blind on hit. – You are balancing this against pistol’s Black Powder, if the reward is not worth the risk then offhand dagger will always play second fiddle to offhand pistol in any pvp format.

2. Revert Acro nerfs. Specifically feline grace – This was a huge hit to thief build diversity that was not warrented.

3. Add endurance on hit to sword auto chain #1. This along with #2 is needed to bring back S/D to viable levels in light of the overall vigor nerf.

4. Make Death Blossum warp to front of target (so that you land behind them) and speed up the skill animation by 2x (similar to how it operates under quickness currently) – D/D needs a buff to be viable in pvp and this is the only skill you can touch without affecting numerous other builds.

Thought I’d post this as I’ve had to respond to guildies “Well how would you fix it?” questions too often and now I can just post the link.

I like what they tried to do with Feline Grace but yeah, isn’t really working out as well as they probably thought it would. Vigor on evade instead of just rolling was supposed to have more access to vigor with S/D and even deathblossom but it is too hit-&-miss, leaving very little room for error when dodge evading. I’d like at least something met in the middle like dodging returns some endurance again but evading returns even more. Might be good compromise.

A trait like “Attacks with main-hand weapon give endurance” might be cool. Would cover all weapon sets (though base endurance gain from dagger AA would be removed). Or even like 50% chance when landing a hit. We need to be able to play how thief should be played. An annoyingly evasive, stealthy kitten. If we don’t have that going for us, then what’s the point? -_-

C&D should give back at least 1 initative on successful stealth

Delete the class. There, fixed.
(I joke! Seriously, nothing but wry sarcasm here!)

You are forgetting that dual pistols need riccochet back.

And yet none of this address the real issue with the Thief that’s existed for 3 years, constant in combat stealth. A good Thief only pop up a few seconds and then vanish again. In a game that’s supposed to be built around counterplay – you see the enemy use a skill, you counter/dodge it – that leads to incredibly broken combat. Being able to combo blast stealth himself is a huge part of this issue, the Thief is by far the best selfcomboer.

TL;DR
None of what OP suggest fix the Thief because they arent even problems.

Dawdler.8521:

And yet none of this address the real issue with the Thief that’s existed for 3 years, constant in combat stealth. A good Thief only pop up a few seconds and then vanish again. In a game that’s supposed to be built around counterplay – you see the enemy use a skill, you counter/dodge it – that leads to incredibly broken combat. Being able to combo blast stealth himself is a huge part of this issue, the Thief is by far the best selfcomboer.

TL;DR
None of what OP suggest fix the Thief because they arent even problems.

And here I though that ele is best “selfcomboer”. Oh well, silly me.

I want Feline Grace back.
And I want the freedom to invest my talent points where I want, I HATE the 3 paths restriction.

Dawdler.8521:

None of what OP suggest fix the Thief because they arent even problems.

Only having one viable weapon set isn’t a problem? Do you even play this class?

1. i don’t think that thieves are really that bad the issue is that other classes are too good atm
2. those suggestions won’t really change anything; what really needs to happen is that weapon sets other than dp have more useful spells than just 1-2

Steinpilz.5078:

I want Feline Grace back.
And I want the freedom to invest my talent points where I want, I HATE the 3 paths restriction.

They will not never ever go back on such a big implement as the new trait system, so it’s better to try to adapt to the new system (don’t get me wrong, I understand completely what you are saying, but it won’t happen).

And yes, feline grace RIP

mompen.7952:

Steinpilz.5078:

I want Feline Grace back.
And I want the freedom to invest my talent points where I want, I HATE the 3 paths restriction.

They will not never ever go back on such a big implement as the new trait system, so it’s better to try to adapt to the new system (don’t get me wrong, I understand completely what you are saying, but it won’t happen).

And yes, feline grace RIP

I think you’re right about this which is why a lot of people have suggested rolling FG and ES together and adding another trait back in.

Pretty much 1/2 of the Acro line needs tweaks/buffs/reversions now, but after such a major balance patch I doubt we’ll see it any time soon. Also some other classes need shaving first so that’s probably the focus anyway right now.

Cynz.9437:

1. i don’t think that thieves are really that bad the issue is that other classes are too good atm

Yeah well, if other classes are too good then thief is really bad, right?
But an example why even thief vs thief is broken:
I duelled a D/P thief in wvw yesterday. First time around I used my usual roaming build = 01101, he got me easily. Second time around I changed my traits to 11001 and won. I need SA to deal with all the condis flying around but in the end the whole line is that weak that it’s no comparison to what a thief being able to use 11001 can do. My problem wasn’t my D/D, it was the SA line – If I trait into SA, I want something in exchange.

@Dev: Please don’t see this as another proof to nerf the offensive traits, how about some defense instead?

I cry in da corner ‘cause of that changes. S/D is my beloved build, so this rly breakes me. I still play S/D, but I would rather have it stronger than it is now. ANet has been nerfin’ this build for a 2 years. And now, they have done it. They have totally broken it. It’s sad. T_T

I would like to return to it more dodges and evasivity like it had before, or give it a more burst.

I could play it with Critical Strikes instead of Acro. It gave me bigger burst and it’ survivability has been still good somehow. Now it’s shameful. S/D is weak.

I knew players were sayin’ to ANet something like this. “If you nerf S/D more than it is now nerfed! (It has been after Sword/Dagger Skill 3 Nerf), you see falmes on the forums.”

And now it is here. I didn’t want to write these coments or flame something. But this really got me. Sorry, ANet, but it is right. S/D is no more playable. It is still fun, but it is pretty weak against other classes. If a new player or player with no such an amout of expereince in PvP comes to fight with me, I’ll kill him. But if a player with a lot of experience, player, who plays PvP as long as me (I play GW2 from launch), comes to duel with me: It’s a difficult to win. And I don’t think that is about my skill. I play PvP really a long time and I have never a such problems with S/D like now. T_T

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

1. i don’t think that thieves are really that bad the issue is that other classes are too good atm

Yeah well, if other classes are too good then thief is really bad, right?
But an example why even thief vs thief is broken:
I duelled a D/P thief in wvw yesterday. First time around I used my usual roaming build = 01101, he got me easily. Second time around I changed my traits to 11001 and won. I need SA to deal with all the condis flying around but in the end the whole line is that weak that it’s no comparison to what a thief being able to use 11001 can do. My problem wasn’t my D/D, it was the SA line – If I trait into SA, I want something in exchange.

@Dev: Please don’t see this as another proof to nerf the offensive traits, how about some defense instead?

Let’s assume thieves are balanced (i think they are besides few bugs and few tweaks). That means that other classes need to be toned down. Why? Power creep is unhealthy for pvp.
Why do you base your opinion on wvw? Even devs said it is not balanced and never intended to. Also, why do you base your opinion on 1v1? This game is balanced around team pvp.

Cynz.9437:

Let’s assume thieves are balanced (i think they are besides few bugs and few tweaks). That means that other classes need to be toned down. Why? Power creep is unhealthy for pvp.
Why do you base your opinion on wvw? Even devs said it is not balanced and never intended to. Also, why do you base your opinion on 1v1? This game is balanced around team pvp.

Because I play wvw and because things were pretty much balanced before this patch, so I don’t think it’s impossible to balance around wvw.
I don’t think my point is invalid even if it comes to group play – SA is underpowered.

WvW was never balanced. WvW has too much varierity where pvp has stable things like amulets, no food, 5v5 etc.

SA would be fine if SE change would get reverted, imo.

Cynz.9437:

WvW was never balanced. WvW has too much varierity where pvp has stable things like amulets, no food, 5v5 etc.

SA would be fine if SE change would get reverted, imo.

No, still you can balance it like I just said – someone somewhen balanced even food. All anet needs to do now is to maintain things – it can’t be that one game mode is completely lost because anet says they’re overwhelemed when it comes to it.

And: I don’t play pvp that’s why I say “in wvw” when I refer to something because I can’t speak for pvp.

ETA: I’m a D/D thief, so I’d like at least SE, CiS and SRE as it has been before but the lack of might is also noticable.

Edit²: Spelling and grammar and stuff.

Edit³: And also the nerf to CnD.