Guild Wars 2

I’ve never really liked bursty classes in games. I enjoy having a more prolonged fight with an enemy. Not a forever long fight, but one where you really have to know and react to your enemy. I would play another class, but I really like the ability to escape when kitten hits the fan.

S/P does both really well.

If you decide to use Haste+PW you can easily burst down 16-22k health but aren’t limited to that, it can also put out consistent DPS and control. The only major issue is that in PvP its not overly viable while in PvE its incredibly viable.

yea u can eithier S/P great for pve or u can go condition build aswell most players ull see in pvp will pick thief because simply u can destroy ur enemy in seconds if they honestly dont know wat thier doing. but u dont always have to go this path always can go condition and watch ur enemy just whittle away with stacks upon stacks of bleeds :P

I use the D/P, and things never seem to go well for me. Every time I encounter an enemy, it’s always the same thing. Go in, activate Black Powder, try to stab enemy and realize they have 3000 toughness and 2000 power, get hurt badly by enemy, and then get ganked by 3 other players out of nowhere.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Experimental-Condition-Thief-Build/first#post796476

I just answered to that thread, and it sounds like its something you’d like

Pistol Dagger Condition build > any burst

I’ve gone from backstab to this, and honestly, it’s a million times better, much more rounded, much more survivability. Looking back, backstab wasn’t even that great.

Pistol/Dagger is far more powerful than any Backstab build. Sure, you don’t have the burst for quick kills but you can easily pull off 2v1 or even 3v1 with such a build.

Carrion gear also happens to supplement the build perfectly.

I would play it myself if Condition Damage didn’t suck so much in PvE.

Contrary to belief, Condition thieves do fairly well in PvE, especially against bosses. I run a P/D thief in both sPvP & WvW/PvE. It isn’t hard to continuously stack bleeds, dodging and dropping caltrops, and if you’re good, you can take out burst thieves just as well (as you’re capable of dealing damage when they’re stealthed while remaining stealthed yourself).

It’s also more fun and requires more attention from you, imo.

For solo play I would agree, but the problem with pure cond dmg in any kind of pve group play is the stack limit of 25. Nothing to worry about when solo, but it makes dmg in group very unreliable atm.

I do WvW mostly. I see a lot of praises here for P/D and rightly so it is a very effective build. However I personally play thief to be melee most of the time if you are like me maybe you will like my build.

I run a might stacking backstab build.
0/30/25/15/0
Traits: Crit-1-3-6(or12 if you like 100% crit wile stealth) Shadow-5-8 and Acro-2

You gain 2 Stacks of might when you stealth 1 stack when you roll (2 if you eat bowls of orrian truffle meat stew) With 2 runes of either fire or hoelbrak and 4 runes of the other you gain 40% might duration + 15% from acrobatics making it 55% longer might duration. I fight most people with 10-15 stacks of might very possible to get it even higher though if you are good about stealthing and rolling a lot.

For gear I run Power/Toughness/Vitality with knights trinkets. You could also go for valkyrie trinkets if you like for a little more vit with less toughness and extra crit damage. (mainly ideal if you plan on running 100% crit wile stealth)

As for my skills I run a “brothers in arms” setup which is a little different than most thieves in that I use ambush trap. (then signet of shadows and shadow refuge as the other skills) Then thieves guild as my elite. The reason I use ambush trap is because I am already in melee range so dropping this on top of an enemy is not that hard. And the thief that spawns is fairly beefy and does good damage. Not to mention they are annoying as hell with their blinds and scorpion wire. If you run a human thief you also get the added perk of looking like them so they fool a lot of people. (not as effective as mes clones because of their names but still a distraction none the less)

EDit: I forgot to say how I play.
I use this setup mainly as a harassment build solo assaulting camps, keeping dolyaks from getting to towers/keeps and running scouts and busting 5 man ninja teams. It is more of a lonewolf style of play and is only fairly effective in zerg play. If you plan on running with a zerg I would use a shortbow mostly rather than D/D use lots of rolls and stealth when you can to keep might stacks up and you will still hit pretty hard with the shortbow.

As others said, burst Thief is the worst way to play Thief. Condition Thieves, and even support Thieves (very underrated because of how many people only try to burst) are much better. I run a build combining both and I spend the day winning most PvP battles and resurrecting everyone in Dungeons and Dynamic Events.

Even if you want to be bursty, you have to take some tactical skills to avoid counters. Yesterday I battled a Thief trying to be bursty against me, and I really wanted to whisper him to advice him as he clearly was a 222222222222 Thief, to the point that I had him Inmobilized and he was still pressing 2 to try to get to me, he really looked like a caged lion… that I bleeded to death.

Full glass cannon won’t take you anywhere. People are too used to them and the Thief isn’t even the best at that. I learned to predict Backstab builds in little time, and most people will learn soon (once they stop crying to nerf us and learn to play…).

Fixeon.5076:

As for my skills I run a “brothers in arms” setup which is a little different than most thieves in that I use ambush trap. (then signet of shadows and shadow refuge as the other skills) Then thieves guild as my elite. The reason I use ambush trap is because I am already in melee range so dropping this on top of an enemy is not that hard. And the thief that spawns is fairly beefy and does good damage. Not to mention they are annoying as hell with their blinds and scorpion wire. If you run a human thief you also get the added perk of looking like them so they fool a lot of people. (not as effective as mes clones because of their names but still a distraction none the less)

I called this Thief Lord instead f Brothers in Arms :P even made a video during the betas hehe. But from my experience, Ambush Trap is easier to use as a ranged Thief instead of a melee Thief (and also more useful as it serves as meat shield): The reason is that as melee most enemies will back pedal, while as ranged most will try to go after you. Placing Ambush in melee means you will receive non-contested damage while using it, and then having to waste a dodge and maneuver time to put yourself in the other side, and then convince your enemy that you’re stronger (while you’ve already received uncontested damage) so he backpeddals.

i disagree with that statement burst thief isnt the worse to play actually and most of the time thats what i play when im doing sieges to actually get in thier and do damage and pull people off the wall with scorpions wire now that its 1,2k range. but yea ima be honest i can survive alot most people would be like WTF how u surviving with only 14k HP?? its not hard. dodge death blossom do wat u gotta do to avoid those hits if things get bad and u get chased by like 5 players hey pull out that shortbow and infiltrators arrow away. simple wait till thier gone and go right back in for sum more action.

That may seem like oh thats a noob way to fight people but hey it works thats how i get my kills w.e :P and easy aswell to do pve. kill things quickly no problems. but in terms of roaming in WvW condition build yes is far more superior cuz u can take on multiple enemies at a time ^^

@Lokheit
The way I use ambush trap is i get right next to them and move with them (while stealthed when possible) Then turn my char 90 deg to one side and strafe with them and drop it right on top of them the trap will trigger instantly no luring needed. Once in a while they will catch me off guard and do something unexpected but that’s when I lure them back over it much like you would at range. I have to be in melee to do damage anyway and that’s just a good of time as any to drop it you get pretty fast at doing it it and its just a flick of the wrist.

Good to see someone else using it though

Speaking from my experience i found out that condition builds are very good for WvW. It gives survivability and decent damage to take on anything, including 1v2, 1v3 etc. It suits WvW best because you have a lot of space to maneuver, and you’re not pressed for time.
It seems weaker PVP because you can’t kill fast enough and you don’t afford to drag a battle forever. A burst build is better in PVP
In PVE it’s mixed. You can get good results with D/D in solo leveling and map roaming. In dungeons you should be ranged most of the time and if someone else is condition built then you’re not as efficient.
In short:
WvW: best to go condition damage (P/D)
PVP: best to go burst damage D/D, S/D
PVE solo: condition damage D/D, P/D
PVE dungeon: range support (P/P, SB)

Of course you should adapt according to the situation/teammates/enemies. Condition damage could be a great all-around build, better IMO then a glass-cannon build

@supergica: Um how does S/D burst? I think you’re thinking of S/P with its Pistol Whip.

Personally I can do better than burst thieves because they have so much down time.

As D/D Conditions I can constantly have 25stacks of bleeds on a player. If they remove the conditions it’s only a matter of seconds before it’s all reapplied. I have a lot of slowing CCs and stealth as well as a 3-Thief Guild that makes me bursty when it’s available. Players usually die with 10seconds with full bleeds.

And then I can kite with my SB while they are moving so slow that with some power /tough gear I can make Cluster Bomb hit 1k-1.9k.

P.S. Whiles using Death Blossom you evade all damage, winning.

Dual.8953:

@supergica: Um how does S/D burst? I think you’re thinking of S/P with its Pistol Whip.

Prior to the last patch S/D bursted better than S/P since Dancing Dagger was an excellent burst ability. Now neither weapon set can really burst. Pistol Whip is not a burst skill, it does less DPS than auto attack. You can burn utilities and use traits to “burst”, but none of the weapon skills themselves will grant inherently higher DPS than continuing to mash auto attack.

I run a support/condition P/D build that solo’s efficiently and makes friends in groups all the time.

it’s a 20-0-30-0-20 build that utilizes steal for group buffs, C&D for AoE blind spamming, and the strong synergy between blind spamming, pistol’s sneak attack, and signet of malice for some pretty impressive self-sustain.

I don’t personally enjoy sPvP, but in WvW it makes a pretty darn effective scout, runner, and small group roamer.

That said, when playing a condition build in PvE, remember that the stacking limit can cap your damage. In the instance that you’re working with a party which can already cap out bleed stacks, you may want to consider a less-spammy support option by keeping up 25 vuln with the now-not-totally-useless body shot, or applying a shortbow as a poison field spammer and blast finisher machine.

supergica.8652:

It seems weaker PVP because you can’t kill fast enough and you don’t afford to drag a battle forever. A burst build is better in PVP

I would disagree with this, just because a thief that can drag out a fight in sPvP is a thief that can prevent the enemy from capping. There have been countless times where I would head to my opponent’s initial cap point and have them try and kill me while the rest of my team will head to the middle and first nodes. Just because you can’t kill them fast in PvP means you’re weaker. You just have to play it more like a team. If one guy can hold up half the enemy team, that’s 7v4 somewhere else on the map.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I’m gonna give it some more thought, but thief is definitely up their on my list now.

Check out some of my videos on how to play a P/D thief.

I don’t use the standard carrion build but it’s the same principal.

This guy is playing an interesting build mainly using shortbow and d/p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE0ATYhoRIE
unfortunately he’s not telling his build in his videos and i dont know it either

@Scootabuser That was a nice video indeed. Can you say anything about your build?

I mostly do instances and WvW atm, so if anyone has a viable d/p or p/d build for the former, I’m all ears. I’m not too fussed about being a condition or burst thief tbh.

30/0/30/0/10 Carrion geared P/D with some +bleeding duration runes/sigils is a total beast.

With caltrops up in PvE you can stack perma AoE poison with long weakness duration, and 25 stacks of AoE bleed if you spam cluster bomb at melee range. While P/D is great for single target bosses and such.

And you can change some traits around and hop into PvP with a VERY powerful shared healing venom setup with tons of CC and good healing. Be careful if you go into full venoms though as you will lack a stun breaker.

I started off thief as a S/P power vit toughness build thief. After awhile i decided to change to a full glass cannon D/D build because i wanted to take down enemies faster so i can assist my team. Then i tried a full condition P/D build but couldnt fit my preferences. After trying out the different builds, i decided to mix n match my armors n accessories. Now i’m playing a semi glass cannon P/D build that i enjoy. I’d suggest u to join PvP and try out all the builds and find out which suits u best.

Anyone tried the new Apothecary gear with a Shadow Arts/Acrobat build?
Healing/Toughness/Condition = Apoth

@Pirate and DeCree: Thanks. I’ll give it a shot. Thanks for taking the time to answer, appreciate it. You’re not mentioning survivability, guess stealth and dodge applies here too, as per usual I almost dear say. :-)

Thief is all about dodging and stealth, I agree. I solo’d champ karka for several minutes after everyone else in the area died on a vit/tough build. I was frankly amazed by my own survivability. I even got a compliment out of it. So yeah, non-burst thief can def be viable.