Guild Wars 2

Why do people say thieves are op?

Do they not understand how initiative works?
It’s not an unlimited resource pool, HS spamming, good for the thief if he can save up all 12 initiative (without trait) to get you the required HP level to do the most damage to you 4 times. and then hes gonna have to wait 6 seconds before he can cloak and dagger someone.
How is this different than a warrior waiting on his adren to fill up to kill you off with 100b?

Stealth, its not even perma and often you see the thief stealthing, thats your queue to move it because something horrible is about to happen you to if you just stand still.

And if you don’t see it coming and get backstabbed thats probably if the thief is like me, he uses C/D on a target closer to him and then runs up to you knowing you’re about to die and finishes you off, its not cheap at all.

We got like the lowest HP of all the professions, it’s not that hard to kill a thief.
Even if he stealths you dont even have to run, just unleash a flurry of frontal or aoe attacks, stealth isnt something that turns thieves invulnerable.

Thieves are OP because players are bad and prefer to be ignorant about other classes outside of their own.

/thread

Cyric.7485:

Thieves are OP because players are bad and prefer to be ignorant about other classes outside of their own.

/thread

seems like u.

Ever played other classes besides thief?

/thread.

thief is OP and I played elementalist/mesmer.

Masternewbz.4953:

seems like u.

Ever played other classes besides thief?

/thread.

thief is OP and I played elementalist/mesmer.

Between this thread and the one you started, you’re either mad or definitely trolling.

Yes actually, I have a 6x engineer that I play more often than my thief lately.

lol@mesmer complaining about thieves.
he is definitely trolling.

I faced a lot of bad elementalists and a few good ones.
Believe me, elementalists are far away from UP. Maybe you should try something different with your traits or weapons.

Rolled a warr, I’m doing 1.2k 100b at level 13 (8 seconds cooldown and can switch to even more OP double axe? yes please), with my 63 thief I’m doing 2.5k backstab and I have 7k HP, seems balanced. /sarcasm

Another clueless Thief circlejerk thread.

Did you see the traits? Stuff like Infusion of Shadow, Quick Recovery, Opportunist? It’s possible to Stealth every 3 seconds and never run out of Initiative using CnD and only some of these traits.

Your HP is on par with Elementalists and Guardians. You also have a lot of HP regeneration and blind spam. One successful blind effectively adds HP and you can blind targets every 3 seconds or permablind melee targets.

Stealth has rendering issues. The engine can’t handle contant re-stealthing, resulting in Thief being invisible good 2 seconds after the Stealth ended.

You run faster than most enemies with Signet of Shadows or spammable Swiftness on evading (and that’s with Fleet Shadow being bugged and not working lol), also running is not an option in a point capture game, unless it’s the graveyard point.

And to the poster above me… we’re talking about PvP. Although the GS/Axe build on Warriors with Haste/Endure Pain is their only viable build and is arguably overpowered. Nothing like BS Thief, though, of course.

Edelweiss.9815:

Another clueless Thief circlejerk thread.

Did you see the traits? Stuff like Infusion of Shadow, Quick Recovery, Opportunist? It’s possible to Stealth every 3 seconds and never run out of Initiative using CnD and only some of these traits.

Your HP is on par with Elementalists and Guardians. You also have a lot of HP regeneration and blind spam. One successful blind effectively adds HP and you can blind targets every 3 seconds or permablind melee targets.

Stealth has rendering issues. The engine can’t handle contant re-stealthing, resulting in Thief being invisible good 2 seconds after the Stealth ended.

You run faster than most enemies with Signet of Shadows or spammable Swiftness on evading (and that’s with Fleet Shadow being bugged and not working lol), also running is not an option in a point capture game, unless it’s the graveyard point.

And to the poster above me… we’re talking about PvP. Although the GS/Axe build on Warriors with Haste/Endure Pain is their only viable build and is arguably overpowered. Nothing like BS Thief, though, of course.

Oh alright, lets just remove all of that awesome single target damage and give us a ton of AOE weapon skills /sarcasm

And this isn’t the blind of guildwars, just spend an auto attack and you get your blind cleared.

Also signet of shadows? LOL you get owned by 3 signet thieves? :S
Thats kind of bad.

And your issue is the broken engine, not the broken stealth mechanic which works fine.

I have played ALL 8 classes in at least sPvP and I’d say that the thief is not OP.

Edelweiss.9815:

Another clueless Thief circlejerk thread.

Did you see the traits? Stuff like Infusion of Shadow, Quick Recovery, Opportunist? It’s possible to Stealth every 3 seconds and never run out of Initiative using CnD and only some of these traits….

Yeah, thieves have stolen trait points from other classes, that’s why they have 250 trait points to spent while other classes only have 70.

Seriously, you can trait for survivability, stealth, mobility, condition or straight damage, but not all of them at the same time.

Masternewbz.4953:

Ever played other classes besides thief?

thief is OP and I played elementalist/mesmer.

Let me quote you from a different topic :

“Perma stealth isnt an issue?

Thief seems like a superhero with invisibility power.

Bad kids will always be bads."

Against your level of reasoning i will say one thing:
I never played anything but thief since release .I have 1300 games with thief and i destroy 90% of all other thieves.The remaining 10% are beating me with the same class and runes and weapons as the other 90%.They are just much better than me.
Period.It is my problem,not theirs.For example i have much lower winning % against engineers and hammer warriors/guardians,or good cripple rangers,or almost every mesmer who doesn’t stay with “looking for group” symbol on his head.Do this make them OP?Or my build is weak against them,or my play style?Super Hero with invisibilty power.Bah.Like mesmer cannot stealth at all…
.

I have a ranger and a thief. I rather face a thief then a Mesmer. A skilled Mesmer is a lot harder and more annoying to kill then a thief.

The thief isn’t OP. It really shines in 1v1 fights where they have the element of surprise. They are lacking somewhat in bigger fights and tend to die easily. Thieves actually required a lot of intelligence to play – being able to plan ahead in regards to how they are going to use initiative, or knowing when to teleport out of a fight and run away when it goes badly. The roles thieves tend to play in WvW are sentry (stealthing and spying on the enemy), or supply line disruption being able to disrupt sentries and supplies by having fast move speed and being able to get in and out of a fight quickly – essentially hit and run tactics. We cannot solo most other classes if they are quick and intelligent – if they actually use their dodges and heals effectively. Generally all other players have to do is, when we steal from them, immediately roll away and start using their area skills to prevent us from getting close. More importantly though WHY THE HELL ARE YOU RUNNING AROUND BY YOURSELF IF YOU AREN’T A THIEF (or possibly a Mesmer)? That is asking for one of us to pop up and stab you to death. Where we can generally solo most classes we suffer significantly in big fights. We have very little health and armor and even a short AOE attack can down us – something that you can’t say of a warrior, guardian, ranger, necromancer, or sometimes a mesmer, and even Engineer and Ele can survive AOE for a few seconds considering they have defensive skills.

Good thief players understand the importance of speed and endurance. We don’t have defensive skills and our heals are generally poor quality compared to the other classes. Our only defense is our endurance, our speed, and our ability to get out of a fight going badly quicker than anyone else.

The thief is balanced. People really just want something to whine about.

The complains about Thieves mostly arise not from them being OP or not but because it’s not fun to play against certain Thief builds. Those Thieves pop in, “one-hit” you and run away to do it again x seconds later; if they didn’t managed to kill you they run away and try it in x seconds again.
If fighting against a certain character comes down to “React perfectly within one second every x seconds or die” it stops being fun for most.

@DesertRose,you have a point there.However,if those kind are your main problem,someone cleverly suggested 4xSuperrior runes of Earth.If you are not glass cannon as well this will finish your one-hit problems.

DesertRose – thieves always have access to steal – 90% of thieves use it exclusively as a shadowstep. If every thief has access to it then it means you will have to learn how to counter it. How is that? By what I said – dodge and start using your spells. You may find it annoying and want to kitten about the thief being OP but, as I said, if you are running around by yourself and you aren’t a thief or a mesmer then you are probably a little bit daft. In WvW you can’t run around by yourself unless you are a thief or a mesmer either because you’ll get killed by either one of those classes, or a mob will pop up and murder you. About PvP though – you will automatically be in a team. Expect there to be thieves so expect to stay closer to your friends. If you are alone we will kill you and there is very little you can do about it – but if you have a group of friends we can’t do much at all. Sure we can jump in and slash at everything nearby but we don’t have the armor or hp to survive for long at all – we will die quicker than any other profession in those circumstances and any effect we have in doing so will be minimal.

The thief is probably the only class designed for loners. People who play thief aren’t necessarily team players in the sense of zerging – rather we are harassers and assassins and use those skills FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

People can kitten and whine all they want about the thief, but I tell you the thief is balanced. The problem is thief players go through a very quick learning process early on. Most thieves die very often or get downed a lot while they are learning the class – as such we learn to avoid taking damage, or we find ways to prevent damage altogether – we learn to avoid fights we know we can’t win, and generally thieves become very observant players because we have to assess a situation more often and faster than other classes do.

It’s not a thing of “react quickly to avoid death.” Rather it’s a thing of DON’T RUN AROUND BY YOURSELF. If you don’t take that advice than the problem isn’t thief being OP, rather the problem is players remaining consistently stupid and thieves preying on a largely slow witted population.

brandon.6735:

I have a ranger and a thief. I rather face a thief then a Mesmer. A skilled Mesmer is a lot harder and more annoying to kill then a thief.

I can attest to this.

It just seems like mesmers spawn clones of themselves all the time when I was on my ranger. No matter how much micro managing i did with my pet, making it target one of “mesmers” theres always another one ready to take its place.

Atleast with a thief, I hear the stealth, I do quick shot run around wait for 3 – 4 seconds and crip shot.

ZLE.8293:

However,if those kind are your main problem,someone cleverly suggested 4xSuperrior runes of Earth.If you are not glass cannon as well this will finish your one-hit problems.

Yes, I’ve read that thread. If I remember correctly the thread also states that there is a ~42% chance that protection doesn’t trigger during the Cloak and Dagger->Steal->Backstab combo.

TJV.6239:

DesertRose – thieves always have access to steal – 90% of thieves use it exclusively as a shadowstep. If every thief has access to it then it means you will have to learn how to counter it. How is that? By what I said – dodge and start using your spells.

You do know that the infamous Backstab Thief build uses Basilik Venom and that you can use Steal during Cloak and Dagger? If timed correctly Steal and Cloak and Dagger will hit at the same time making it impossible to dodge; at that point only a stun breaker can save you from the subsequent Backstab. The only way to counter this combo with a dodge is to distinguish the Cloak and Dagger animation from an auto attack animation (from a range up to 900) and use a dodge BEFORE the Thief uses Steal.

About PvP though – you will automatically be in a team. Expect there to be thieves so expect to stay closer to your friends. If you are alone we will kill you and there is very little you can do about it – but if you have a group of friends we can’t do much at all. Sure we can jump in and slash at everything nearby but we don’t have the armor or hp to survive for long at all – we will die quicker than any other profession in those circumstances and any effect we have in doing so will be minimal.

Lets ignore that in PvP there are plenty of situation where you have to be on your own, how exactly does standing besides an ally protect me from the Backstab combo?

DesertRose.2031:

ZLE.8293:

However,if those kind are your main problem,someone cleverly suggested 4xSuperrior runes of Earth.If you are not glass cannon as well this will finish your one-hit problems.

Yes, I’ve read that thread. If I remember correctly the thread also states that there is a ~42% chance that protection doesn’t trigger during the Cloak and Dagger->Steal->Backstab combo.

TJV.6239:

DesertRose – thieves always have access to steal – 90% of thieves use it exclusively as a shadowstep. If every thief has access to it then it means you will have to learn how to counter it. How is that? By what I said – dodge and start using your spells.

You do know that the infamous Backstab Thief build uses Basilik Venom and that you can use Steal during Cloak and Dagger? If timed correctly Steal and Cloak and Dagger will hit at the same time making it impossible to dodge; at that point only a stun breaker can save you from the subsequent Backstab. The only way to counter this combo with a dodge is to distinguish the Cloak and Dagger animation from an auto attack animation (from a range up to 900) and use a dodge BEFORE the Thief uses Steal.

About PvP though – you will automatically be in a team. Expect there to be thieves so expect to stay closer to your friends. If you are alone we will kill you and there is very little you can do about it – but if you have a group of friends we can’t do much at all. Sure we can jump in and slash at everything nearby but we don’t have the armor or hp to survive for long at all – we will die quicker than any other profession in those circumstances and any effect we have in doing so will be minimal.

Lets ignore that in PvP there are plenty of situation where you have to be on your own, how exactly does standing besides an ally protect me from the Backstab combo?

So why don’t you bring a stun breaker?
I never used Assassin’s signet till recently, apparently because in a certain dungeon I do getting knocked down is a common thing and that one stunbreaker is a life saver, and I started using it in wvwvw, and guess what it works wonders against not just thieves but hammer warriors who throw me around like a rag doll.

If you stand still vs ANYONE you are going to die.

How does an Ally save you?
Simple while you’re incapacitated they would attac the thief and use a CC if they have any.

Masternewbz…

How oddly appropriate.

My ele can do things I can’t even dream about on my thief. Double dagger ele is boss. You’re either trolling or true to your forum name because my ele is a ****ing wrecking ball.