Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Suggested-Tpvp-changes-for-better-meta-imo/first#post2753694

In that topic, OP lists possibly the 4 best classes for sPvP right now. basically rangers, warriors, necros, but for thief specially targets S/D oh god.

So you’re probably like that’s sPvP who cares I don’t even play that right? Wrong, ANET balances arounds sPvP and IF S/D thief is OP for sPvP this means they’re gonna get nerfed, AGAIN.

There are topics about nerfing thieves everyday, and this is the one that scares you?

Forz.1725:

There are topics about nerfing thieves everyday, and this is the one that scares you?

Yea it’s because everyone knows Necro, Warrior, and spirit rangers are gonna be nerfed in the next balance patch and to lump in S/D thieves with those 3 is bad bad news, especially considering it’s in the sPvP forums.

Scare you for what. When S/D was nerfed PvE and WvW were barely affected. Tactical strike is still 2 seconds in those modes for instance and CnD is still at a higher damage.
The only players who should be worried for S/D are Spvp players.

Every veteran thief should be used to getting hit by the nerf bat by now.

Zacchary.6183:

Every veteran thief should be used to getting hit by the nerf bat by now.

Only if you forget to dodge-roll-a-new-build. :P

Keyce.8137:

Zacchary.6183:

Every veteran thief should be used to getting hit by the nerf bat by now.

Only if you forget to dodge-roll-a-new-build. :P

Good thing I keep 3 main builds and 10 variants on hand in my utility bank.

I found myself laughing at this part though.

Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill.

Haha so S/D has a “high burst” now….

Excalibur.9748:

I found myself laughing at this part though.

Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill.

Haha so S/D has a “high burst” now….

This. It has good sustainable damage, and with the evades makes it hard to hit, but burst leaves quite a lot to be desired.

The only thing on S/D that they’d likely nerf is the damage on Larcenous Strike, which I don’t care about frankly, the skill is utility to me. So long as Tactical Strike remains intact I’m good.

Ya I think larcenous strike should be utility. Then again it pretty much IS being used for utility now what with the damage about the same as auto attack….

I don’t know why everyone takes Helseth opinion so seriously, he’s suggesting that the evasion component of flanking strike to be completely removed…

Caom.9251:

I don’t know why everyone takes Helseth opinion so seriously, he’s suggesting that the evasion component of flanking strike to be completely removed…

Are you serious? Wow does he even play a thief?

D/D has death blossom
S/D has flanking strikes
S/P has pistol whip
P/P doesn’t have anything but then it’s P/P we’re talking about
D/P has shadow shot not an evasion but it blinds. so it’s an evasion in a way

Almost every single one of our dual sets have an evasion in the dual slot except for P/P.

Nevermind that evasion is required to survive as a thief. We’re not war with 20k base HP and heavy armor.

Excalibur.9748:

Caom.9251:

I don’t know why everyone takes Helseth opinion so seriously, he’s suggesting that the evasion component of flanking strike to be completely removed…

Are you serious? Wow does he even play a thief?

D/D has death blossom
S/D has flanking strikes
S/P has pistol whip
P/P doesn’t have anything but then it’s P/P we’re talking about
D/P has shadow shot not an evasion but it blinds. so it’s an evasion in a way

Almost every single one of our dual sets have an evasion in the dual slot except for P/P.

Nevermind that evasion is required to survive as a thief. We’re not war with 20k base HP and heavy armor.

Not dual but you forgot shortbow #3, evade

Excalibur.9748:

Ya I think larcenous strike should be utility. Then again it pretty much IS being used for utility now what with the damage about the same as auto attack….

The problem there is Auto-Attack was originally S/D’s main damage dealer, so now they’ve brought up Larcenous Strike, would you rather just deal top tier damage, or deal top tier damage while evading and stealing boons for some light init management?

LS is now overall better then AA offensively, so why AA when there’s a better option?

Dual.8953:

Excalibur.9748:

Ya I think larcenous strike should be utility. Then again it pretty much IS being used for utility now what with the damage about the same as auto attack….

The problem there is Auto-Attack was originally S/D’s main damage dealer, so now they’ve brought up Larcenous Strike, would you rather just deal top tier damage, or deal top tier damage while evading and stealing boons for some light init management?

LS is now overall better then AA offensively, so why AA when there’s a better option?

I rather use auto attack unless necessary because I need to save the initiative for when FS/LS makes sense or for removing conditions with infil strike/shadow return.

I also use dancing dagger a lot, all these skills need initiative so wasting it on FS/LS when its utility is not needed makes no sense to me.

There’s no such thing as Sword burst unless you immobilize someone and use an axe stolen from warrior. ;/ The dmg absolutely sucks if you don’t go full zerker, then if they manage to land a hit or are spec’d for condition you can die pretty fast, or at least get shunned off and have to run. It’s a nice weapon set (for spvp) but there’s nothing that needs nerfed anymore about it.

Zacchary.6183:

Every veteran thief should be used to getting hit by the nerf bat by now.

My build keeps getting buffed. It’s like my own secret oasis in the desert that is the thief class!

so if they did nerfed it again… bye bye thief… id rather play mesmer and quitting thief for awhile and i prolly play thief D/P build roaming in WvW. only

Really every class in spvp can be OP. Tank guardians are a must and are used in nearly every organized sPvP tourney. Necros and engis are great in that they can keep constant pressure with the amount of AoE’s and blinds in the circle.

what am i missing? s/d takes so much collateral/AOE dmg thakittens hard to play well…even with the evades that are usually less than 40% of the total activation/skill time. s/d is ….fun. but FAR from op. the dmg is medium. defense medium. no invis low condi removal low spike dmg and high mobility with no stun removal or blinds. pffft. they are nutz

If you want to worry about s/d getting nerfed, you should have a look at this topic instead.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/How-to-avoid-the-next-balance-disaster

JonathanSharp.7094:

Agreed on the shaving + making sure we don’t overdo it with big hits to the classes.

Also good points about making sure that we don’t take away the things “holding down” some of the strong builds. I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Reesha.7901:

If you want to worry about s/d getting nerfed, you should have a look at this topic instead.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/How-to-avoid-the-next-balance-disaster

JonathanSharp.7094:

Agreed on the shaving + making sure we don’t overdo it with big hits to the classes.

Also good points about making sure that we don’t take away the things “holding down” some of the strong builds. I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Looks like that is official confirmation S/D is getting nerfed.

See I had a feeling it was gonna get nerfed, and unfortunately my gut feeling is usually correct

This sucks big time because S/D was not even that good in sPvP from what I played. Condi spam and AoE spam in general shuts it down pretty hard.

They Need to be careful what they do with the damage from larcenous strike. The only reason s/d didn’t turn into a lemon with the change to steal was because they migrated the damage to larcenous strike. Of course this caused another problem. S/d is forced to spam 3. since we get boon removal, 1/2 second evasion and the extra damage (that you need to kill most bunkers,evasion spec, heal spec) off of one ability.

Another problem is They have nowhere to put the extra dmg that s.d needs. they can’t put it on infiltrators strike (high damage gap closer would be op) the mechanics of gw2 won’t allow for it to be on dancing dagger (if the first dagger crits they all do)
and cnd.. well if they put the damage back on it d/d would rain supreme again

A.net is kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place right now.

I don’t think they have any qualms about letting a class float to the bottom of the meta for a while until they figure out a long-term plan. They’ve done it with other classes before, and there’s always the argument that thief will still have D/P.

If S/D thief is the root of the irony aside from Perm-stealth; Arena.net should once and for all, adjust this class, a.s.a.p

Seriously,

How many more faithful and dedicated players will it take in exposing thief overpowerdness?

-Top players, groups and guild had left gw2 due to cheap mechanics-

(Keep spamming that endless #2 thieves….)

(Hint- it will get more worse until Arena.net realize, Favoritism will never work)

Burnfall.9573:

If S/D thief is the root of the irony aside from Perm-stealth; Arena.net should once and for all, adjust this class, a.s.a.p

Seriously,

How many more faithful and dedicated players will it take in exposing thief overpowerdness?

-Top players, groups and guild had left gw2 due to cheap mechanics-

(Keep spamming that endless #2 thieves….)

(Hint- it will get more worse until Arena.net realize, Favoritism will never work)

You win for the most poorly written message ever. Spam 2 on S/D? Go ahead and try that and let me know how many kills you get.

Don’t worry about Burnfall, he’s our forum’s dedicated troll. He can be a bit silly at times and write funny passages (which are always quite an interesting read).

You don’t need to take anything he says seriously we’re all here for a good time, there’s no need to get angry at him.

But it’s always nice to give him something to chew on though! We don’t want someone like him to leave, he’s a important part of our community and without Burnfall it just won’t be same, he always knows how to inject some joy in this tense atmosphere.

We love you Burnfall and hope you stay with the thieves to the end (: (You better not go cheat on us with those dirty warriors you’re talking about)

style.6173:

Burnfall.9573:

If S/D thief is the root of the irony aside from Perm-stealth; Arena.net should once and for all, adjust this class, a.s.a.p

Seriously,

How many more faithful and dedicated players will it take in exposing thief overpowerdness?

-Top players, groups and guild had left gw2 due to cheap mechanics-

(Keep spamming that endless #2 thieves….)

(Hint- it will get more worse until Arena.net realize, Favoritism will never work)

You win for the most poorly written message ever. Spam 2 on S/D? Go ahead and try that and let me know how many kills you get.

LOL – I am beginning to see why everyone makes fun of Burnfall.

Hahaha it will be interesting if one day the engineer will see the thief at the bottom of the nerf hole, so don’t complain just yet XD

S/D Thieves SHOULD be nerfed.. it the most spammy ridiculous spec in the entire game. I have a level 80 thief and I’d rather this spec didn’t exist. Spamming 3 is BORING.. even if S/D was 100x more powerful than any other class/spec I still wouldn’t play it. Destroy this build and give us something more fun and interesting.

squeezebag.4618:

S/D Thieves SHOULD be nerfed.. it the most spammy ridiculous spec in the entire game. I have a level 80 thief and I’d rather this spec didn’t exist. Spamming 3 is BORING.. even if S/D was 100x more powerful than any other class/spec I still wouldn’t play it. Destroy this build and give us something more fun and interesting.

I don’t think you’re playing it correctly if you’re spamming. This is the MOST fun spec for me and I don’t spam 3.

I don’t play D/P or D/D since I don’t like hit and run playstyle but you don’t hear me clamoring to DESTROY it and replace it with something more fun and interesting.

I use all the skills in the S/D hotbar situationally. Not just spam 3. :o that wont always work. Even dancing Dagger has it’s use, especially if you don’t use a ranged weapon.

S/D also plays more like GW1 Assassins since you’re actually battling and evading (blocking in GW1’s case) at close range and making extra use of shadowstepping instead of relying on stealth. As I’ve already said, there’s nothing that needs nerfed. Try making a condition build and fighting them, they get tore to shreds. Sword Warriors, Cond Engi and Necros really mess me up fast if I’m not careful.

At this point they need to balance so many things we really can’t worry about 1 class. if all the other OP kitten gets nerfed down to a certain level then s/d needs to be brought to that level as well so its all balanced. However at the moment s/d is not OP compared to other stuff. Also, signet of agility is probably what they should nerf if they do nerf it.

That’s the first time I’ve heard someone claim signet of agility is OP…

Demonts.4593:

At this point they need to balance so many things we really can’t worry about 1 class. if all the other OP kitten gets nerfed down to a certain level then s/d needs to be brought to that level as well so its all balanced. However at the moment s/d is not OP compared to other stuff. Also, signet of agility is probably what they should nerf if they do nerf it.

Let’s just remove condition cleansing from thieves. kitten’em…

It’s fine if anet nerf s/d (skill 3) a little bit but then make tactical strike a stun or give Pw it’s 15% dmg back!

S/D 3 is so easy to land anyway. I say we take away all weapon sets except d/d, remove stealth, but wait…that still leaves skill slot 1…hmmm. need to rethink this.

Geez why take away the fine burst damage on 3, the only S/ has. Just put a 1 sec cooldown on it (and if you’re at it, on all other initiative skills).

There is no burst damage on 3, and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.

Lazarus.2365:

S/D 3 is so easy to land anyway. I say we take away all weapon sets except d/d, remove stealth, but wait…that still leaves skill slot 1…hmmm. need to rethink this.

Easy to land? I hate that spec BECAUSE of how hard that is to land. It’s prefaced by a moving dodge and has a slow animation.

Grimwolf.7163:

Lazarus.2365:

S/D 3 is so easy to land anyway. I say we take away all weapon sets except d/d, remove stealth, but wait…that still leaves skill slot 1…hmmm. need to rethink this.

Easy to land? I hate that spec BECAUSE of how hard that is to land. It’s prefaced by a moving dodge and has a slow animation.

Ya LS is hard to land these days.

Excalibur.9748:

Grimwolf.7163:

Lazarus.2365:

S/D 3 is so easy to land anyway. I say we take away all weapon sets except d/d, remove stealth, but wait…that still leaves skill slot 1…hmmm. need to rethink this.

Easy to land? I hate that spec BECAUSE of how hard that is to land. It’s prefaced by a moving dodge and has a slow animation.

Ya LS is hard to land these days.

ya LS is hard to land! the animation is slow! so sometimes pre casting Flanking strike then Larcenous+steal or infiltrator’s signet.

Coloxeus.3480:

Excalibur.9748:

Grimwolf.7163:

Lazarus.2365:

S/D 3 is so easy to land anyway. I say we take away all weapon sets except d/d, remove stealth, but wait…that still leaves skill slot 1…hmmm. need to rethink this.

Easy to land? I hate that spec BECAUSE of how hard that is to land. It’s prefaced by a moving dodge and has a slow animation.

Ya LS is hard to land these days.

ya LS is hard to land! the animation is slow! so sometimes pre casting Flanking strike then Larcenous+steal or infiltrator’s signet.

You need to keep moving. Try making use of holding down both mouse buttons to move forward instead of W. At least that’s what I do to aim it quickly in combat.

Excalibur.9748:

I found myself laughing at this part though.

Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill.

Haha so S/D has a “high burst” now….

Apparently the community finally hates consistent damage that can constantly evade and hardly take damage. Not to mention easily disengage within any situation to a certain degree.

/shrug

Funny thing is, you just have to get the rotation in your mind and after that it seemingly takes no skill to use it.

But it does have weaknesses, you simply can’t take any kind of damage at all regularly while you have your heals, utilities or elite on cd. You also can’t dodge spam what you can’t see, so one shot or two shot specs can maybe kill one out right. There are those said one or shot specs out there that can also perma stealth to a point.

Excalibur.9748:

There is no burst damage on 3

I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.

and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.

You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?

Jamais vu.5284:

Excalibur.9748:

There is no burst damage on 3

I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.

and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.

You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?

The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.

they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)

Jamais vu.5284:

Excalibur.9748:

There is no burst damage on 3

I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.

and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.

You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?

I don’t think you understand at all. In the time you can complete an FS/LS chain, you can finish an AA chain which does comparable amounts of damage. It would literally be stupid to make AA do more damage than FS/LS by adding a cooldown on LS.

kittennit.7648:

Jamais vu.5284:

Excalibur.9748:

There is no burst damage on 3

I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.

and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.

You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?

The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.

they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)

That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.

Excalibur.9748:

kittennit.7648:

Jamais vu.5284:

Excalibur.9748:

There is no burst damage on 3

I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.

and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.

You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?

The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.

they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)

That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.

FS/LS does more damage than AA, it is faster executed and LS does more damage than CS + evade + boon steal + unblockable. It also doesnt suffer from the problem that if you opponent dodges / blinds / blocks your Slice / Slash you have to start your AA chain over again, it is quite hard to get to crippling strike. FS/LS doesnt have that problem.

I play 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 double S/D and i still do enough damage (3,5k lac on glass, around 2,3k on bunker guards), i’m sure a 30 CS thief could live with a 20% dmg nerf (only on LS, not on FS). Yes, in PvP.

Also PW’s problem is not the damage, it’s retaliation which renders it useless in a team fight.