Guild Wars 2

When I pop haste and pistol whip I’ve been noticing allies will lure the mob out of my AoE. I’ll tell them not do do that and explain why…then they’ll do it again.

Why on earth are people so dense when it comes to team work?

pistol whip and haste? with 15 ini how many P/W can you pull off …. the answer is 3 maybe 4 in…. 3/4 second per PW without haste… so.. ~3 seconds without haste… ~1.5 seconds with haste do you really need more than that ? after you have blown your ini, you are completely useless, it’s a fact.

ddrake.5436:

pistol whip and haste? with 15 ini how many P/W can you pull off …. the answer is 3 maybe 4 in…. 3/4 second per PW without haste… so.. ~3 seconds without haste… ~1.5 seconds with haste do you really need more than that ? after you have blown your ini, you are completely useless, it’s a fact.

That is so silly. 1st off if you’re gonna go for a PW haste build you take initiative regen as a trait (2 every 10 seconds). Next you take Signet Use (gain 2 initiative when activating a signet) and 3rd you go a bare minimum of 5 deep in trickery so stealing gives you back 3 initiative.

If you feel inclined to spam PW you can spam it 5-6 times and after that you roll back and start using your SB until your initiative regens…only people who don’t understand initiative think the things you just said, also I guess any class would be “useless” when they’ve done their rotation and everything is on CD for those few seconds, eh?

I should also mention Haste will speed through 2 PW and kick start the activation of a 3rd, it will not last any longer.

But that’s beside the point. Why bring up something as off topic as that?

Ill tell you a simple truth that applies across all profs. Its never your parties job to set up for you. Asking someone to not lure the mob means you didn’t have aggro thus your asking them to sit still while you perform your main burst. Basically what you need is a tank. The sad reality is this is a kiters game. Very few people can sit still just so you can get your burst done. And while its true teamwork is key in many areas of this game there is no reason for your parry to need to do anything so you can dps.

I realized long ago that the mobs have a mind of their own and will go wherever they like. Its has noting to do with your team. What seems like kiting to you is likely surviving to them. Your going to have to learn to create your own dps opportunities or get a guild that will coordinate so you can PW comfortably.

Babel actually has a valid case and point here idk countless times ive ran with a group that will literally move the mob out of my aoe or. point here (run out my shadow refuge when i put it down to heal u=then u die cuz u dnt want heals >.>) this is exactly why i stopped running with randoms. GUILD and GUILD only. eithier or ill solo most of my pve action. (guardians are the pullers.) js. lol

BabelFish.7234:

ddrake.5436:

pistol whip and haste? with 15 ini how many P/W can you pull off …. the answer is 3 maybe 4 in…. 3/4 second per PW without haste… so.. ~3 seconds without haste… ~1.5 seconds with haste do you really need more than that ? after you have blown your ini, you are completely useless, it’s a fact.

That is so silly. 1st off if you’re gonna go for a PW haste build you take initiative regen as a trait (2 every 10 seconds). Next you take Signet Use (gain 2 initiative when activating a signet) and 3rd you go a bare minimum of 5 deep in trickery so stealing gives you back 3 initiative.

If you feel inclined to spam PW you can spam it 5-6 times and after that you roll back and start using your SB until your initiative regens…only people who don’t understand initiative think the things you just said, also I guess any class would be “useless” when they’ve done their rotation and everything is on CD for those few seconds, eh?

I should also mention Haste will speed through 2 PW and kick start the activation of a 3rd, it will not last any longer.

But that’s beside the point. Why bring up something as off topic as that?

hardly, and I was only giving a rough ~ approx without getting too deep, but you want to, then I shall show you where you are going wrong.

firstly, get your facts straight the 2 ini every 10 seconds is called “Quick Recovery” and this is hardly an excuse for PW + Haste spam and complaining as you would not get your ini back until a 10 sec block has passed also 2 ini not even half a PW ability.

second, if you choose Signet Use you get a 30sec CD and that doesnt even give you 1 PW unless you pop 3 signets (good luck on that if you do), yet again. know your facts before you challenge my knowledge of Initiative. but I can see you are a new thief so I will go easy on you.

third, steal for ini is a 45sec CD, this being your longest CD I would imagine you would have your rotation based around this ability.

I am not saying it’s not possible to regen and get back initiative, there are far more options on doing so.

Opportunist – Critical hits have a 20% chance to restore one initiative (1-second cooldown).
what this means is that if you burn 3 PW in 2 seconds, you get 2 initiative back, no more. do not get this confused, there is a cooldown. and it’s 20% chance not 100%. so a single PW might not even return a single initiative but AT MOST, it will return 1 initiative

Infusion of Shadow – Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you.
This is good if you plan on stealthing to the target with steal maybe? but that’s trait points you need to spend.

Patience – Regain initiative faster while in stealth.
I don’t see a PW thief stealthing often to regain stealth as this is time lost on a fight.

So …… to sum it up…. at MAX you can get 3-4 PW in ~3sec I don’t care if you can regen like a god, you can only regen MAX 1 per PW if you are lucky, 2 per 10 seconds, and 3 from a steal, that gives you 1 extra PW so ~4 PW at MAX 2 seconds with haste, DONE… you can complain all you like, however this will not give you any more initiative in 4 seconds of haste I highly doubt you are the only person fighting and doing high damage output… 4 seconds of haste with 2 seconds of 4 x PW’s every 45 seconds does not seem to be worthy of a complaint.

oh… now you know how warrior feel with Hundred Blades which has a 3+1/2 second activation time.

I see 0.75 secs for a pistol whip to end its animation here… yet, when i test it, i get 4 PW’s in 11 secs…
More of the same blabering…

The worst thing someone has done to me was when I was reviving a downed teammate in shadow refuge and another teammate ran to “help” revive them…while being targeted by an enemy doing AOE damage. head desk

Some people just don’t pay attention and there is general lack of communication in most groups made of randoms but then I’m sure I do stupid things too.

stealth stomping a Ranger

Ally: GEE GOTTA HELP WITH THAT STOMP

Ranger procs AoE daze on him, my CnD stealth ends, the enemy team collapses on us

Fighting in a 3v1, popping Thieves Guild, hands sweating, heart beating, doing awesome! Downed one of them, the rest are injured, it will be trivil to mop up the two of them!

an ally glass cannon runs in to help, dies in 2 seconds, gets Haste stomped and the enemy downed player is brought back up

Ally Warrior is down, I swap to Shortbow, double Inf. arrow and Shadowstep to him, pop Shadow Refuge. Great rescue!

the Warrior keeps spamming rocks, gets revealed and stomped

Me and another ally assist train a Necro in a hectic team fight, down him, I’ve no Initiative to CnD, and guess what my ally does? Double stomp is for weaklings, just spam 1 on a downed enemy! I get feared, he gets CC’d and dies from the enemy team helping their downed buddy.

ddrake.5436:

So …… to sum it up…. at MAX you can get 3-4 PW in ~3sec I don’t care if you can regen like a god, you can only regen MAX 1 per PW if you are lucky, 2 per 10 seconds, and 3 from a steal, that gives you 1 extra PW so ~4 PW at MAX 2 seconds with haste, DONE… you can complain all you like, however this will not give you any more initiative in 4 seconds of haste I highly doubt you are the only person fighting and doing high damage output… 4 seconds of haste with 2 seconds of 4 x PW’s every 45 seconds does not seem to be worthy of a complaint.

3+2+2

1 per 1.6 seconds
2 per 10 seconds

PW=approx. 3 second duration

3×4=12
12/10=1 (rounded down)
12/1.6=7.5 (rounded down)

15-5+3=13
3 seconds have passed
13+1=14
14-5=9
3 seconds have passed
9+1=10
10-5=5
3 seconds have passed
5+1=6
6-5=1
3 seconds have passed
1+1=2+2(quick recovery)=4+2(Signet Use)=6
6-5=1
3 seconds have passed
1+1=2+2(Signet Use)=4

If you run another signet or SoM, you can extend this to 6 or alternately wait 1.6 seconds and PW again. Also your signet cooldowns are reduced so you could ideally use Signet of Malice 2x in this combo for another +2 initiative (12s cooldown).

Haste duration isn’t even long enough to fully cover 2.5 pistol whips, why are you factoring that in?

Haste is used to cause 2 PW to deal a high amount of burst and trigger on crit abilities such as sigil of air and to synergize with Signet of Malice for heals+stun+active evasion.

Eduardo.4675:

I see 0.75 secs for a pistol whip to end its animation here… yet, when i test it, i get 4 PW’s in 11 secs…
More of the same blabering…

Then you aren’t testing it properly.

Edit: Just tested this in HotM on a training dummy. I was able to perform 10 PW in a row without skipping a beat.

ddrake.5436:

BabelFish.7234:

ddrake.5436:

pistol whip and haste? with 15 ini how many P/W can you pull off …. the answer is 3 maybe 4 in…. 3/4 second per PW without haste… so.. ~3 seconds without haste… ~1.5 seconds with haste do you really need more than that ? after you have blown your ini, you are completely useless, it’s a fact.

That is so silly. 1st off if you’re gonna go for a PW haste build you take initiative regen as a trait (2 every 10 seconds). Next you take Signet Use (gain 2 initiative when activating a signet) and 3rd you go a bare minimum of 5 deep in trickery so stealing gives you back 3 initiative.

If you feel inclined to spam PW you can spam it 5-6 times and after that you roll back and start using your SB until your initiative regens…only people who don’t understand initiative think the things you just said, also I guess any class would be “useless” when they’ve done their rotation and everything is on CD for those few seconds, eh?

I should also mention Haste will speed through 2 PW and kick start the activation of a 3rd, it will not last any longer.

But that’s beside the point. Why bring up something as off topic as that?

hardly, and I was only giving a rough ~ approx without getting too deep, but you want to, then I shall show you where you are going wrong.

firstly, get your facts straight the 2 ini every 10 seconds is called “Quick Recovery” and this is hardly an excuse for PW + Haste spam and complaining as you would not get your ini back until a 10 sec block has passed also 2 ini not even half a PW ability.

second, if you choose Signet Use you get a 30sec CD and that doesnt even give you 1 PW unless you pop 3 signets (good luck on that if you do), yet again. know your facts before you challenge my knowledge of Initiative. but I can see you are a new thief so I will go easy on you.

third, steal for ini is a 45sec CD, this being your longest CD I would imagine you would have your rotation based around this ability.

I am not saying it’s not possible to regen and get back initiative, there are far more options on doing so.

Opportunist – Critical hits have a 20% chance to restore one initiative (1-second cooldown).
what this means is that if you burn 3 PW in 2 seconds, you get 2 initiative back, no more. do not get this confused, there is a cooldown. and it’s 20% chance not 100%. so a single PW might not even return a single initiative but AT MOST, it will return 1 initiative

Infusion of Shadow – Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you.
This is good if you plan on stealthing to the target with steal maybe? but that’s trait points you need to spend.

Patience – Regain initiative faster while in stealth.
I don’t see a PW thief stealthing often to regain stealth as this is time lost on a fight.

So …… to sum it up…. at MAX you can get 3-4 PW in ~3sec I don’t care if you can regen like a god, you can only regen MAX 1 per PW if you are lucky, 2 per 10 seconds, and 3 from a steal, that gives you 1 extra PW so ~4 PW at MAX 2 seconds with haste, DONE… you can complain all you like, however this will not give you any more initiative in 4 seconds of haste I highly doubt you are the only person fighting and doing high damage output… 4 seconds of haste with 2 seconds of 4 x PW’s every 45 seconds does not seem to be worthy of a complaint.

Babel’s Quote to your first post was correct (although not entirely). His first paragraph he states/implies how important it is to trait in initiative regain. this is not for the haste combo but for the longterm tanking/killing with normal PWing. His 2nd paragraph acknowledges that it is impossible to spam PW so when you do run out of initiative, there are different ways to go about to not be useless. And then his third paragraph of his own experience/knowledge of how many PW you can actually pull off PW w/ haste.

I do not agree with everything babel says and my PW build is different then his. But your information aren’t entirely correct as well.

Just for the record, The max PW you can put in w/ Haste [4 seconds] are 3 full ones.

Okay, it is not the responsibility of others to keep enemies in position for your skills. They are not your tanks. It is your responsibility to use positioning and skills such that pistol whip will hit them.

After all, if you’re standing over there and I’m standing over here, why is it my job to drag the mobs over to you or not attack so you can hold aggro? The player must go to the mobs, not the mobs to the player.

In GW2, a good group consists of 5 players who work well as a team but are all capable of handling themselves. If you want a group of mobs to sit still and eat your damage, either hold aggro on them or use your skills to make them sit still.

Here are a few tips I’d like to throw out there. I don’t know if they will apply to your particular scenario but it may improve your own playstyle. (note that this is for PvE play)

1. If the mob is targeting a non-melee teammate, you can’t expect them to sit still just so you can pistol whip the mob. Instead, try helping your teammate with just using the sword auto attack. It will do about the same damage as pistol whip but you will also cripple and weaken the foe to help your fleeing teammate.

2. The main benefit to pistol whip over the sword auto attack is the stun + 1sec evade. When you haste through it, that evade does not last nearly as long and makes it less usefull. The damage output of hasted pistol whip vs hasted auto attack is negligible (pistol whip just adds the damage numbers together so you get to see more big numbers but that’s really just a visual thing).

Basically, sword/pistol has a lot of versatility and can be better used to support the “bad players”. Just popping haste + a skill that locks you in place doesn’t seem very advantageous in many situations (I guess would help if you need SoM or sigils to trigger more).

Ropes.8690:

Here are a few tips I’d like to throw out there. I don’t know if they will apply to your particular scenario but it may improve your own playstyle. (note that this is for PvE play)

1. If the mob is targeting a non-melee teammate, you can’t expect them to sit still just so you can pistol whip the mob. Instead, try helping your teammate with just using the sword auto attack. It will do about the same damage as pistol whip but you will also cripple and weaken the foe to help your fleeing teammate.

2. The main benefit to pistol whip over the sword auto attack is the stun + 1sec evade. When you haste through it, that evade does not last nearly as long and makes it less usefull. The damage output of hasted pistol whip vs hasted auto attack is negligible (pistol whip just adds the damage numbers together so you get to see more big numbers but that’s really just a visual thing).

Basically, sword/pistol has a lot of versatility and can be better used to support the “bad players”. Just popping haste + a skill that locks you in place doesn’t seem very advantageous in many situations (I guess would help if you need SoM or sigils to trigger more).

In my case I pop it to allow massive AoE damage and allow my superior sigil of air to proc more often/heal me.

When an ally goes kitten acquire aggro and lead the mobs out it not only mitigates the damage my spec does but it also hurts themselves by allowing the mobs to live longer.

This also applies to perma blind field, I’ve seen allies lead the melee mobs out of them before…

Dacromir.6207:

Okay, it is not the responsibility of others to keep enemies in position for your skills. They are not your tanks. It is your responsibility to use positioning and skills such that pistol whip will hit them.

After all, if you’re standing over there and I’m standing over here, why is it my job to drag the mobs over to you or not attack so you can hold aggro? The player must go to the mobs, not the mobs to the player.

In GW2, a good group consists of 5 players who work well as a team but are all capable of handling themselves. If you want a group of mobs to sit still and eat your damage, either hold aggro on them or use your skills to make them sit still.

My build does hold aggro around 80% of the time, if your ally is doing a high damage burst you don’t go ahead and burst ontop of that risking stealing aggro and reducing efficiency, you space the bursts apart so the aggro stays focused on who needs it.

This is the difference between a knuckle dragging pub player and a pub/guildie who understand basic mechanics.

Its your responsibility to use your brain-or-if you cannot go do solo PvE where you wont muck things up for the rest of us.

BabelFish.7234:

My build does hold aggro around 80% of the time, if your ally is doing a high damage burst you don’t go ahead and burst ontop of that risking stealing aggro and reducing efficiency, you space the bursts apart so the aggro stays focused on who needs it.

This is the difference between a knuckle dragging pub player and a pub/guildie who understand basic mechanics.

Its your responsibility to use your brain-or-if you cannot go do solo PvE where you wont muck things up for the rest of us.

You are aware there are mechanics at work in this game for aggro besides damage and healing right? Pick your knuckles off the ground long enough to go learn about mobs that attack highest armor, lowest armor, hp variables, etc.

dragoaskani.6271:

BabelFish.7234:

My build does hold aggro around 80% of the time, if your ally is doing a high damage burst you don’t go ahead and burst ontop of that risking stealing aggro and reducing efficiency, you space the bursts apart so the aggro stays focused on who needs it.

This is the difference between a knuckle dragging pub player and a pub/guildie who understand basic mechanics.

Its your responsibility to use your brain-or-if you cannot go do solo PvE where you wont muck things up for the rest of us.

You are aware there are mechanics at work in this game for aggro besides damage and healing right? Pick your knuckles off the ground long enough to go learn about mobs that attack highest armor, lowest armor, hp variables, etc.

Way to make assumptions. I know how aggro works and one of the leading causes is out bursting X character.

Don’t make assumptions.

Is this how most thieves feel? When I put down an aoe on any profession and miss most of my effects, I put it off as a “miss” on my part. I don’t expect any person with aggro on them to stand still.

smug.3895:

Is this how most thieves feel?

The only time I actually get annoyed is when people launch or pull things inappropriately, if it turns what’s generally a stable battle into an unstable one.

I see people do it to downed opponents in WvW about two nights a week. Maybe this is some rare warriors misunderstanding what ‘stomp’ means?

ASP.8093:

smug.3895:

Is this how most thieves feel?

The only time I actually get annoyed is when people launch or pull things inappropriately, if it turns what’s generally a stable battle into an unstable one.

I see people do it to downed opponents in WvW about two nights a week. Maybe this is some rare warriors misunderstanding what ‘stomp’ means?

That’s exactly my point. I’ll sometimes get annoyed if they pull aggro and run out of my AoE but I understand why they have to do it, no worries.

But when they start doing silly things like using knockbacks, etc and forcibly move a mob out of my AoE…that’s when I say something.

Dacromir.6207:

Okay, it is not the responsibility of others to keep enemies in position for your skills. They are not your tanks. It is your responsibility to use positioning and skills such that pistol whip will hit them.

We’re not asking allies to control the enemy’s position for us, we’re asking allies to refrain from unnecessarily taking away our ability to control the enemy’s position. There’s a distinction.

All I’m going to say on this subject is morons and Death Grip.