Guild Wars 2

From a pve perspective, I don’t really like it, First Strikes was much more fun to play with since you had to manage your initiative carefully and by doing so you had the option to deal more damage. Now when Executioners kicks in you lose the +10% bonus from Ferocious Strikes. Do you think that, along with the C&D nerf, thief dungeon role as dps boss-slaying beast will be undermined?

You can also see it from the positive side: You can get an enemy quicker below 50% HP to deal extra damage with executioner! I think 10% is a nice number, and shouldn’t be a big issue. But that is my opinion of course, I can understand yours might differ.

Strategist.6132:

You can also see it from the positive side: You can get an enemy quicker below 50% HP to deal extra damage with executioner! I think 10% is a nice number, and shouldn’t be a big issue. But that is my opinion of course, I can understand yours might differ.

No, it’s not quicker since we already have that +10% damage with First Strikes.

Aha I understand what you mean. It’s basically this:

First Strikes: Damage is increased while your current initiative is over the threshold. (10%)
vs
Ferocious Strikes.: Critical damage is increased by 10% to foes above the 50% health threshold.

I guess you’re right that this is a little nerf, since critical strikes do not always proc. But on the other hand, you don’t have to save your initiative anymore, just to do that extra damage. (Which in most fights is rarely above 6 I guess?) I don’t think the nerf is that big though.

If the base damage increases with 10 percent the output will be larger then if the critical damage modifier is increased by 10 percent.

But we also got some nice new traits I think. So I guess we should just accept this change, even though I agree its a bit worse then before.

The way the trait is set up to be makes no sense. You get fury when fighting someone who is below 50% but then your gm minor turns off?? what?? And on top of that it is 10% critical damage not just plain damage like all other damage buffer traits traits.

I hope they take another look at this because this is a really poor minor, and it is in the same line as another poor minor – keen observer.

Why not just make it give you a flat 10% critical dmg buff, just by being a critical dmg modifier rather than a plain dmg one makes it weaker so no need for stupid triggers like when someone is above 50%.

Maybe that might be a good change, I agree that Keen Observer is not really a good minor. (After all in general it only works for the initial burst) So maybe just a flat increase to ferocity would be better to make up for the loss in damage compared to the old GM trait.

Strategist.6132:

Maybe that might be a good change, I agree that Keen Observer is not really a good minor. (After all in general it only works for the initial burst) So maybe just a flat increase to ferocity would be better to make up for the loss in damage compared to the old GM trait.

Should still give you +10% dmg instead of kittening +10% critical damage though (or just like +15% critical dmg), this way it got nerfed two in one… nice anet
(1. no chance to maintain it by careful play)
(2. +10% crit dmg instead of plain +10% dmg)

What bout the new Gm that adds 250 ferocity trait? do you think superior runes of rage will see some play in pve?

I think 250 Ferocity is a nice trait! It translates to around 17 percent critical damage, which is good if you ask me.

Eodwen.2613:

What bout the new Gm that adds 250 ferocity trait? do you think superior runes of rage will see some play in pve?

No, because 5% damage and fury duration are inferior to +10% and power, fury duration is redundant since the party is supposed to provide you fury and also because we’re going to run either Thrill of the Crime or Flanking Strikes, both provide fury. Also pve builds are going to run No Quarter, making fury duration on that runeset even more useless for thieves.

I agree the +250 ferocity on No Quarter is good, and so is the new Practiced Tolerance, which should give you roughly +190 ferocity, that will be worth taking instead of Sundering Strikes if your group can mantain 25 vuln stacks without your contribution. Basically, we’re talking about 256% crit damage.

I’m wondering about Dagger Training and Mug, maybe Mug will be worth taking instead since you’ll be using steal a lot now and since DT doesn’t look that powerful now and that heal may help me keeping scholar bonus up.

I think I’ll try out http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvAJkBdg~

I’m opting for Thrill of the Crime ATM since we still don’t know anything about Flanking Strikes ICD.

The stream for the initial version of the system showed that it was literally the trick Haste, so it has Haste’s CD that can be reduced by Trickster. I’ll be sticking with TotC, though in PvE chances are a Warrior will be handing out FGJ and that alone can pretty much be kept up forever with No Quarter.

As for the the First Strikes/Ferocious Strikes thing, here’s what it boils down to for PvE (for WvW and PvP it’s just straight up worse for the most part depending how you build, but it’s not that bad).

We lost:

5% damage mod (Flanking Strikes)
10% damage mod (First Strikes)

We now have in their place:

~10% damage mod (Lead Attacks)
105 Ferocity from Flawless Strikes if you can reach 100% crit chance without Side Strikes in some way
250 Ferocity from No Quarter
150 Ferocity above 50% HP from Ferocious Strikes
About 200 Ferocity from Practised Tolerance in full Berserker Ascended gear with food, if Vulnerability is being handled sufficiently by your group so you don’t need Sundering Strikes

So above 50% HP you can be totalling an extra 47% crit damage, or 37% below 50% HP. I’m not much of a maths buff, so the theorycrafters will be the ones to determine the position we’re in compared to before down to the decimal point.

Lucky Shot.7650:

From a pve perspective, I don’t really like it, First Strikes was much more fun to play with since you had to manage your initiative carefully and by doing so you had the option to deal more damage. Now when Executioners kicks in you lose the +10% bonus from Ferocious Strikes. Do you think that, along with the C&D nerf, thief dungeon role as dps boss-slaying beast will be undermined?

Posted this build in another thread, but I expect Trickery to be a trait line taken in the new meta build. Because of this, you’ll still want to stay as full on ini as possible for dps increase. Also, quick pockets with d/d as both weapon sets will have you watching your weapon swap cd as well for additional ini.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvALkBaQ~