Guild Wars 2

Engineers are starting to make me rage abit… Is it l2p or is it their class that suddenly became kitten strong.

It pretty much depends on what you’re running.. Eng’is have always been a bit tough because of their massive AOE condis, so a stealth-based backstab thief would have a hard time.
Pretty much the only “safe” playstyles we have against them are a S/X, Infil-step in atack – out, probably S/D ; or a long ranged playstyle such as P/P, or SB. P/D could also work but they’re pretty much exclusive for codi thiefs and would do less damage.

Literally what Black said, in WvW they are fatal for me since I am a stealth backstab thief. The aoe condi can wipe you fast. Yet when I run that SD evasion build in PvP, I can handle them so much better. Yet in PvP, second I go stealth build then oh kitten engi suck again

You need to run 0/30/30/10/0 back stab to beat them with regen health and remove condition’s in stealth.

You have two options really One is wait for them to burn cooldowns. L2p the classe, roll one in pvp to get a feel for it. DONT FIGHT IN THEIR TURRETS EVER! Engi’s have access to A LOT of cc which is a thief worst nightmare. A locked down thief is a dead thief.

Option two kill their turrets and be slick about it, most risky. If I’m feeling ballsy I’ll just kill the net turret first than the healing second. He’ll blow his cooldowns trying to burst me thinking I’m some dumb thief I’ll stealth heal, shadow step away, shadow step back remove conditions stealth ends DONT attack = no reveal the second I come out BV steal + cd combo no time to react cause I do it the second Ic ome out of stealth so it looks almost like I never left so no reveal debuff. Hit him with the free backstab.

He’ll blow his heal if you haven’t busted him down which is fine cd+infiltrator signet don’t risk missing, take the backstab front or back take it if he can dodge. This one isn’t free. Switch to shortbow postion/blast field. Cripple shot, roll Cripple shot Roll auto attack.

auto’s to infiltrator shot weapons swap dagger 5 combo. back or front take what you can get don’t waste it. HS ftw or autos. Reset the fight if needed.

This is how most of my fights go with condition engi’s. Bursty grenade engi’s just get one shotted and I giggle and stealth stomp.

If the fight goes bad if you get out played, short bow 5 away or shadow step drop and shadow refuge reset the fight.

The best part about being a thief you don’t have to win the fight the first second or third time. You can reset as many times as you need to until they make a mistake when if you find yourself vs a good player.

You shouldn’t have to many problems vs engi’s.

Classes thief’s are weak against or struggle against are necro’s or black-water Mesmer, or heal-away guardians these classes have access to very powerful wvw builds that a thief currently can’t do anything about.

If you back-stab something and do less than 3k walk away. No… no don’t try it again you won’t magically crit for 6k-9k…. walk away. You may think he’s dumb by not fighting back… he just thinks your annoying and knows he can turn around and kick your kitten but is trying to get somewhere. Don’t annoy him, walk away. If he happens to be a warrior and has a hammer mace and shield, shadow step away short bow 5 x2 and shadow refuge… don’t even risk it. Gtfo.

Rissou.7213:

Engineers are starting to make me rage abit… Is it l2p or is it their class that suddenly became kitten strong.

This is l2p. Thieves are still and always will be wildly overpowered. Engineers are Anet’s kitten child swept under the rug and forgotten. They’ve got zero viability and have to play predictable roles that you can easily counter if you know how they work.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

Rissou.7213:

Engineers are starting to make me rage abit… Is it l2p or is it their class that suddenly became kitten strong.

This is l2p. Thieves are still and always will be wildly overpowered. Engineers are Anet’s kitten child swept under the rug and forgotten. They’ve got zero viability and have to play predictable roles that you can easily counter if you know how they work.

What. Lol. Explain why top tourney teams bring engineers and an awesome thief roamer (Bemeric1) switched to engineer for roaming, please.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

This is l2p. Thieves are still and always will be wildly overpowered. Engineers are Anet’s kitten child swept under the rug and forgotten. They’ve got zero viability and have to play predictable roles that you can easily counter if you know how they work.

The things we have to read in this forum…

Asomal.6453:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

This is l2p. Thieves are still and always will be wildly overpowered. Engineers are Anet’s kitten child swept under the rug and forgotten. They’ve got zero viability and have to play predictable roles that you can easily counter if you know how they work.

The things we have to read in this forum…

sad but true to some extent

This might sound lame, but backing off is a tactic that will generally work on engineers. They have weak micro-mobility (i.e. blinks, movement attacks, &c.), so you can obtain the upper hand as far as the pacing of the fight goes more easily. It will depend on your build, obviously, but an engineer will have to expend comparatively more resources than you to catch up to you if you decide to make space. Engagement/disengagement opportunities will be in your favour, generally speaking.

Also, some engineers have heavy boon reliance, so boon stealing abilities can really help you out against them (especially if you steal 15+ stacks of might).

If you do fight some turrets, keep in mind that you can CnD off the turrets, so you can actually turn them against your opponent in a way. They won’t stun, block, or dodge you, although they can sometimes squeeze in attacks for the split second that you are visible.

Dagger storm can also be very helpful since a lot of the engineer’s attacks will be projectiles. Smoke screen as well.

It is partially a l2p issue, and playing an eng will help you figure out what they typically do in a given situation, but Eng does have many counters for a lot of what thieves typically do. S/D is generally a better weaponset to fight eng’s. Here are some of the typical counters you’ll face as a thief.

Gear shield -> 3s block on a 20s CD. Tons of uses. I still see many thieves continue to spam HS once I allow my eng to get at 50% hp or so (I do this to get them to over-commit). Don’t fall for this.

Eng gets bask venomed-> elixir S or healing mist. That’s presuming the eng isn’t not traited for protection + 20% reduction (total of 52% additional reduction) when stunned and then… wth do they even care the eng will hardly feel it. It’ll get them to pop a stunbreak… but don’t expect them to stay stunned.

The stun from static shield when hit… it’s pretty broadcast, wait it out and re-stealth instead of attacking, watch for the capt. america shield throw.

Box o nails/glue shot… cripple/immobilize fields meant to slow you down to stop you from being able to get behind the eng.

Magnet pull + prybar your face combo often used when the thief trying to run away (magnet is pretty broadcast, watch for it). This can be used to help make up the difference between thief and eng mobility a bit.

Shadow refuge-> Magnetic inversion to knock you out.

Turrets… trying to C&D off of them is risky as they can easily root you/knock you down if your c&d timing is even a little bit off. It gives many of the same problems to thieves that phantasms do, but with a large emphasis on CC. Many of these are bugged right now, but even so they can be a major pain.

While you can remove 2 conds on stealth… eng can still overwhelm a thief with conditions. Eng’s generally don’t do long conditions but they can do a LOT of different ones (although eng can produce high burn uptime etc.). You’ll want to evade/avoid as many of them as you can as well as have this trait.

There are many more, but you get the idea. Eng is a pretty kitten solid in a fight against a thief. Don’t just spam skills, be very mindful of the current situation.

One thing I’ve noticed is to pull them out of their supply crate radius when they use it. Most of the times I’ve lost to an Engi is when they drop a supply crate on my head and I’m too bold to not tactically retreat.

for P/D they are a hard but not unbeatable fight. For me I just ensure I don’t run to them to C/D. I only steal or shadowstep to C/D, after the C/D and stealth attack use shadow shot to back away and add torment.,

If they deploy turrets make sure you kite them. As long as you stay away and don’t get in their AOE fields you can often frustrate them into a mistake.

As D/D or D/P they are really hard.

Condi engis are tough because thieves have low hp and the pistols have bleed, poison, blind, a really painful burn (the more so the closer you are when it hits), and a cripple (as do grenades). With the toolkit they can also throw on a long range pull/knockdown and confusion. Grenades and blowtorch don’t care if you are invis. And the Supply Crate is a 2s stun, flame-throwing, net-throwing, bandage dropping I-win button if the cooldowns are all in line when it hits you. (I do so love my Engi

So, same advice that thieves always give. Go play an engineer and see where they are weak. My experience is that D/* works better against me than P/* or S/*. (My thief is now 76 and I’m running S/D so need to go pick some fights with Engis to see.) Keep your range for a bit then start to move in. They’ll (well I’ll; YMMV) hit you with blind (the bouncing lightning-bolt) and as you get in melee range they’ll unload blowtorch. Dodge that burn and you’ve got 12 seconds to play around. Clear the burn if you get hit but ignore bleed. It’s gonna hurt but bleed get stacked right back up while burn is the big damage dealer. If they drop supply crate get out of its range. If they are foolish they’ll leave its protection. If not just wait em out or move on.

One thing I have always wondered is if it is wise to destroy the turrets when they are deployed. They’ll take just a couple of seconds to be destroyed…

I’m asking this because I don’t see many engis in WvW – and those I meet are really terrible.

hihey.1075:

One thing I have always wondered is if it is wise to destroy the turrets when they are deployed. They’ll take just a couple of seconds to be destroyed…

I’m asking this because I don’t see many engis in WvW – and those I meet are really terrible.

Mostly the turrets you will face are from the supply crate. It is our only real elite, and is good for area fights, but if you are a thief… GTFO of its radius. There is a net turret, a flame turret and a healing turret when NOT traited, and while the net keeps you immobile, I am getting regen and med packs which ALSO drop from it. Look at it like this, while you are destroying the healing turret, the flame turret is keeping burning up on you, and you are rooted, there are 3 to kill, and even with aoes it will give me an opportunity for some free grenade tosses or bombs.

You are lucky you don’t face some of the better engineers, there is a relatively high skill ceiling, and most of us will never reach it, but it does make the less-skilled seem even worse.

As S/D engies are fun to fight against. I think those roaming engies are kind of suprised when they lose to a thief…you can tell they are not used to it judging by how aggressive they are when they see me

The rifle, net, fire, and rocket turrets are area denial. I’d probably take down a rocket turret if it was alone. Rifle won’t kill you by itself. Fire is slow and range isn’t great so can be left alive (just don’t stand on it). Net is quite the pain and best to just avoid the area. The healing turret is used for the water field and blast or the initial heal. Any good roamer will pick it up as soon as they throw it down (if they didn’t blast for water field) because you get a few seconds off the cooldown that way. lunyboy above is spot on. Since turrets can’t move just back off and wait em out. If Supply Crate is on cooldown and it didn’t land on your head you’ll probably win 4 out of 5 fights. (That 5th Engi, rare but out there, didn’t need the supply crate to kill you anyway.)

Excalibur.9748:

As S/D engies are fun to fight against. I think those roaming engies are kind of suprised when they lose to a thief…you can tell they are not used to it judging by how aggressive they are when they see me

S/d and s/p are exceptionally good builds for roaming against certain professions. I am not too afraid of s/d, since I am not a boon stacker (gave up after the boon hate meta kicked off). But that being said, any thief that doesn’t run d/p right now has my respect, and I won’t be aggressive with them simply because I can’t be sure how they are gonna fight.

D/p thieves using basilisk venom make me lol so hard, though.

lunyboy.8672:

Excalibur.9748:

As S/D engies are fun to fight against. I think those roaming engies are kind of suprised when they lose to a thief…you can tell they are not used to it judging by how aggressive they are when they see me

S/d and s/p are exceptionally good builds for roaming against certain professions. I am not too afraid of s/d, since I am not a boon stacker (gave up after the boon hate meta kicked off). But that being said, any thief that doesn’t run d/p right now has my respect, and I won’t be aggressive with them simply because I can’t be sure how they are gonna fight.

D/p thieves using basilisk venom make me lol so hard, though.

I don’t think you have anything to be afraid of. The last fight I had with an engie was really epic. I almost died the first time, reset with shadow refuge reengaged with full HP (basically wasting his turret elite). Engie was super aggressive. I basically sticked to him the whole time and shadow returned out of his AoEs. Nothing can kite me, not even a warrior so he made a fatal mistake when he decided to run at around 1/3 HP lol. I ended up downing him with a second shadow refuge when I was at 10% HP. Good times!