Guild Wars 2

Edit:

A banana.

Since apparently torches were never meant for thieves.

Bonk
Mh is prolly too much tho.

Burn The Evidence! – nice skill name, fitting for Thief

I like, though I doubt it will be given to Thieves.

But.. aren’t you missing Torch/Torch dual skill?

obviouely fire wheel or something stupid… whirl finisher, 5 sec duration, 5 stack condition + 5 seconds burning on everyone around per tick, reflects projectiles and evades attacks for 1 initiative.
I’d totally run a T_T Thief… probably with T_T as alternate weapon set aswell

I think thieves would get hammer and greatsword before they got torch.

ZenonSeth.5739:

Burn The Evidence! – nice skill name, fitting for Thief

I like, though I doubt it will be given to Thieves.

But.. aren’t you missing Torch/Torch dual skill?

kitten! LOL, oops! It’s morning for me. I haven’t even gotten a drink yet. I am about to go get my morning enlightenment and such.

My vision for it was a more defensive/condition oriented weapon, I don’t get how 1/2 would be overboard.

Notice the confusions are all just 1 stack, and burns are all short duration unless it’s prohibitive on ini cost, or has some other drawback.

You can spam to get 3-5 confusion stacks, but just like HS spam, you’re out of ini.

Funsies none the less. I would love a greatsword. I would remake my old shadowblade and yell “PERFORATE ARTERY” everytime I attacked someone.

your pistol torch 3 skill was actually a good one. Funny how the simple ideas usually come out the best

i am sorry but is ….
3 spamable combo fields in 1 weapon set ? not even chuck noris don’t have that
torch /pistol

the idea of a thief using torch isn’t actually that bad a one, bandits and smugglers would get lots of use for night time dealings/cave hidey holes etc, then you got the acrobatic/circus based thieves that could be fire jugglers etc etc.

That said that autoattack is powerful weak even if it is quick (half the time of dagger and about 1/4 the damage)

And the initiative costs are a bit out of it.. all of them seem to cost 5-6 inititiative?

Wheres the 3 cost number 2 skill, the 4 cost number 4 skill and the 6 cost number 6 skill?

Dual skills are generally 4-5 depending on power but those others tend to be that amount for a reason (to get them even close to how other peoples cooldowns are and to allow the thief more than 2 attacks in total in some fashion)

Rayya.2591:

i am sorry but is ….
3 spamable combo fields in 1 weapon set ? not even chuck noris don’t have that
torch /pistol

3 fields, 1 finisher. you are also prohibited by ini. Go look at costs, and go look at some ele’s. edit: no access to stealth, unless dagger oh. I didn’t even make a sneak attack, lol.

naphack.9346:

T_T Thief

Now we need Torch mh/oh just so when someone says “What’s your prof/build?” I can say “T_T Thief”

1. was a finisher and a combo (first one won’t blast, ones after will if spammed duration of field) – so it has to be high. Also, as I said my vision was more a defensive/condition weapon. I feel a hybrid spec could make good use of it, as I tried to make the damage/condition kinda split. I gave it all high ini because of how utilitarian it is. all the debuff’s you are throwing around added in with your slipperiness and I think it would do well. Obviously numbers/costs would have to be evaluated and such.

but no one would use it at all with those costs, you’d have to trait trickery just to get 3 attacks off, then your out of inititiative and doing sod all damage for the next 7ish seconds unless you also trait for even more initiative regen which of course reduces your overall damage still.

The weapons have to be useful in some shape or form in many situations, your idea’s would only really work in a group situation if the thief was trying to go support.

Actually now that I think about it, since weapons are also tied in with Traits, and their trait system seems quite statically designed, I highly doubt that any profession will get new weapons.

I get that. Where do people always complain about us(not invisible, etc… the support part)? trickery +condition builds go well together. I wanted the high cost because of the support they have potential to offer, I certainly wouldn’t want to take this with me to roam, just because of the costs, but I didn’t want it to be another spammy set either (people complain anytime they see three of the same skills in a row, even if it was legit (3db’s because endurance is out, and need evades, 4 HS with NO target – escaping, 3 FS for same reason as db’s…)) – and like I said – costs/numbers would need to be tweaked. Was just trying to incorporate a lot of the issues I hear about us and try and alleviate it with one weapon.

(lack of support – plenty in this weapon)
(spammy – costs are too high to spam, but used well and it can make differences “clutch plays”)
(conditions being cleared – well here are a bunch more to throw around to cover/hurt)
(weapon variety – +1 weapon)
(fitting for the class, IMO – how many bandit’s in queensdale have burned you?)

edit: look at s/p pve for the most part.

powder > autoattack > powder with pistol whips as dodges/keeping powder up lets you.
I see it similar with torch – strategic use of blind/dodge/kiting within fields/and autoattack to get the job done.

problem is if you design it based on people complaining rather than based on how the profession is actually designed then you end up putting in something that just doesn’t fit, never used by actual players and quoted by the idiots that have never played thief as “how it should be done” regardless of whether its actually feasible at all.

Selver.1307:

Rayya.2591:

i am sorry but is ….
3 spamable combo fields in 1 weapon set ? not even chuck noris don’t have that
torch /pistol

3 fields, 1 finisher. you are also prohibited by ini. Go look at costs, and go look at some ele’s. edit: no access to stealth, unless dagger oh. I didn’t even make a sneak attack, lol.

i don’t have to look at the costs with 15 point in trickery and RFI i drop 5 fire fields and buff an entire server with might !!!
that is 25 seconds fire field in 25 seconds i regen another 30 initiative and drop 6 more fire fields , so i can drop fire fields for ever, and even more it is an blast finisher also

Dasorine.1964:

problem is if you design it based on people complaining rather than based on how the profession is actually designed then you end up putting in something that just doesn’t fit, never used by actual players and quoted by the idiots that have never played thief as “how it should be done” regardless of whether its actually feasible at all.

Too late… wayyyy too late there.

I don’t see how a torch ’doesn’t fit’, but when everything is opinion it’s all subjective anyway. So what would you do with it? or are you fine with our limited weapon selection?
I’m just brainstorming for no other reason than I am bored. Everyone is shooting it down without ways to improve short of cost – if I reduce costs, it feels OP being able to use it so often.

Rayya.2591:

Selver.1307:

Rayya.2591:

i am sorry but is ….
3 spamable combo fields in 1 weapon set ? not even chuck noris don’t have that
torch /pistol

3 fields, 1 finisher. you are also prohibited by ini. Go look at costs, and go look at some ele’s. edit: no access to stealth, unless dagger oh. I didn’t even make a sneak attack, lol.

i don’t have to look at the costs with 15 point in trickery and RFI i drop 5 fire fields and buff an entire server with might !!!
that is 25 seconds fire field in 25 seconds i regen another 30 initiative and drop 6 more fire fields , so i can drop fire fields for ever, and even more it is an blast finisher also

now that you’ve dropped those stationary fields and you have some of your buddies stacked up with might, and you are out of ini, and burned some utilities, what is the other group doing while this is happening? Are they waiting for you to stack might? or is their thief doing it too? I would get bored watching you guys stack might.

Null field.

edit: 5 person limit.

Selver.1307:

Rayya.2591:

Selver.1307:

Rayya.2591:

i am sorry but is ….
3 spamable combo fields in 1 weapon set ? not even chuck noris don’t have that
torch /pistol

3 fields, 1 finisher. you are also prohibited by ini. Go look at costs, and go look at some ele’s. edit: no access to stealth, unless dagger oh. I didn’t even make a sneak attack, lol.

i don’t have to look at the costs with 15 point in trickery and RFI i drop 5 fire fields and buff an entire server with might !!!
that is 25 seconds fire field in 25 seconds i regen another 30 initiative and drop 6 more fire fields , so i can drop fire fields for ever, and even more it is an blast finisher also

now that you’ve dropped those stationary fields and you have some of your buddies stacked up with might, and you are out of ini, and burned some utilities, what is the other group doing while this is happening? Are they waiting for you to stack might? or is their thief doing it too? I would get bored watching you guys stack might.

Null field.

edit: 5 person limit.

then i rush on zerg with dagger storm , behind my guardians /warriors (with 25 stacks of might ) and in 2 seconds i have full initiative (opportunist.. etc), so i can spam more fire fields ? is that cool ?

[/quote]
… (opportunist),…

[/quote]

1s ICD.

hypothetical counterplay is hypothetical.

and one called target on you in front still gets you dead, daggerstorm or not, 25 might stacks or not, if the opposition knows what’s up.

Selver.1307:

Rayya.2591:

Selver.1307:

Rayya.2591:

i am sorry but is ….
3 spamable combo fields in 1 weapon set ? not even chuck noris don’t have that
torch /pistol

3 fields, 1 finisher. you are also prohibited by ini. Go look at costs, and go look at some ele’s. edit: no access to stealth, unless dagger oh. I didn’t even make a sneak attack, lol.

i don’t have to look at the costs with 15 point in trickery and RFI i drop 5 fire fields and buff an entire server with might !!!
that is 25 seconds fire field in 25 seconds i regen another 30 initiative and drop 6 more fire fields , so i can drop fire fields for ever, and even more it is an blast finisher also

edit: 5 person limit.

edit /blast finisher , 50 persons can be buffed on same field

so we correct each other with minor mechanics.

/nod.

Selver.1307:

… (opportunist),…

[/quote]

1s ICD.

hypothetical counterplay is hypothetical.

and one called target on you in front still gets you dead, daggerstorm or not, 25 might stacks or not, if the opposition knows what’s up.[/quote]

Hastened Replenishment
Infusion of Shadow
6 more ini for hide in shadows
8 more ini from shadow refuge
… etc, if you want more i can add you more

you’re blowing a lot of utilities and stuff just to stack might. it’s pretty inconsequential. If the 50 people you are wanting to give might to can’t get might on their own they are idiots, especially for making you use your amazing new weapon to stack might on them when it could be saving their life.

Like I said: How would you make it better? I get we can trait to get more ini back when we stealth, or heal, steal, or whatever… do you think I don’t play a thief? I’ve been here a while.

I thought you were daggerstorming anyway?

Bleeding, poison AND burning? Don’t you think that would be a tad excessive?

Every single thief would go condition damage and stealth while people blew their cleanses. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some fire. And poison. And bleeding. As long as it’s not me. But yeah, there’s probably a balance reason why this didn’t happen before now.

trust me , there would be a lot of thieves walking with 2 runes of hoelbreak /2 of fire / 2 of str, omnomberry chocolate cream, 30 points in acrobatics , and drop fire fields with 110% might duration.
in the end, they Could walk full P/T/V gear and 0/0/20/30/20 just to drop aoe fire fields and survive . Guardians would be an joke,.. thieves for support. tag 50 enemy’s and buff 50 ally’s, even more inside combat … what could you wish more

A Banana wielding Thief?
Sounds even more OP than a Torch Torch Thief (aka Arsonist)

Though B/B Thief doesn’t have the impact of a T_T Thief :/

WyldKat.4712:

Bleeding, poison AND burning? Don’t you think that would be a tad excessive?

Every single thief would go condition damage and stealth while people blew their cleanses. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some fire. And poison. And bleeding. As long as it’s not me. But yeah, there’s probably a balance reason why this didn’t happen before now.

Not really considering most other people that have decently viable condition builds have access to 3 or more damaging conditions, even the devs once stated they wanted to give us burn but apparently this was after they decided rangers should go around setting fires in the middle of the woods with their flame trap.

skill 1: banana slap/ 2nd slap/ insert banana into eyes (blind)
skill 2: banana throw
skill 3: banana whirl (b/b)
skill 4: banana split (ground becomes slippery)
skill 5: banana eat (gain health)

Selver.1307:

Since apparently torches were never meant for thieves.

It’s not that, it’s more you have to consider how thieves skills tend to work:

Auto – 3 Init skill – Dual Skill (4/5 Init) – 4 Init skill – 6 Init skill

Then you also have to account for how these skills interact with being spammable, examples:

Heartseeker – Does very little outside of the low health range it was designed for.
Cluster Bomb – Has long travel time outside of shotgunning (Can still be used as a spammable blast finisher for 3 init)
Cloak and Dagger – Costs a lot of initiative to use repeatedly.
Dancing Dagger – Provides little damage.
Headshot – Provides little damage and short duration daze.

Very few ways a Thief can abuse the skills to become really strong (Best they can do is Black Powder > Stealth combo spamming) whilst also allowing for a careful use of initiative to come into play (Since different abilities cost different amounts, it allows combo’s and gives different abilities priority depending on Init levels and regen)

DanH.5879:

skill 1: banana slap/ 2nd slap/ insert banana into eyes (blind)
skill 2: banana throw
skill 3: banana whirl (b/b)
skill 4: banana split (ground becomes slippery)
skill 5: banana eat (gain health)

Only object to #3. Should be:
Banana wave: Wave your bananas in the enemy’s face, causing confusion

The way I envisioned it was to be using autoattack, and keep defenses up. active defenses that cost you resources. an attrition type build. okay, so remove the blast finisher off of that particular skill and what are you left with? choices to make on which defense to raise – it will come with a bonus, and you get an autoattack chain with burning at the end, as I said numbers would need to be tweaked and I feel the autoattack would still need something. ini costs are included in numbers. I still have the original draft, lol.

If they said “kitten, we need to implement a new weapon for thieves like… now.”
ol’ bill would say “I suggest a longbow, they could be like warriors with a longbow, but less effective.”

Jim would say “I suggest rifle, they could snipe like no other! You could give them this one powerful shot – I mean, it’d have a cast time and everything, and obvious animation so the target knows when to dodge…”
others: “That’s like warrior’s killshot.”
Jim: /wrists

and someone else would suggest something like me, as it stood, that guy would have been…

burned alive…

hahaha..
/cry.

Taril.8619:

Selver.1307:

Since apparently torches were never meant for thieves.

It’s not that, it’s more you have to consider how thieves skills tend to work:

Auto – 3 Init skill – Dual Skill (4/5 Init) – 4 Init skill – 6 Init skill

Then you also have to account for how these skills interact with being spammable, examples:

Heartseeker – Does very little outside of the low health range it was designed for.
Cluster Bomb – Has long travel time outside of shotgunning (Can still be used as a spammable blast finisher for 3 init)
Cloak and Dagger – Costs a lot of initiative to use repeatedly.
Dancing Dagger – Provides little damage.
Headshot – Provides little damage and short duration daze.

Very few ways a Thief can abuse the skills to become really strong (Best they can do is Black Powder > Stealth combo spamming) whilst also allowing for a careful use of initiative to come into play (Since different abilities cost different amounts, it allows combo’s and gives different abilities priority depending on Init levels and regen)

Believe me I get this, it’s also seeming to go similarly to
1-AA – which all have some bonus throughout (end+/poison,weak/cripple,bounces,vital shot… nevermind there).
2-movement/low ini additional effect (bonus damage <50%, immob/shadow return, …body… shot? nevermind… – but then shortbow – CB as a finisher, and generally decent damage, albeit slow… moving…)
3-active evade + bonus damage + either movement(LDB)/utility(PW)(unload, though I would say it being ranged and able to be moving is it’s benefit – it’s not enough to boost it to a choice between other options)
4-straight utility- DD – low damage ranged aoe snare. Headshot – headshot.
5-utilitybonus – field(and it’s possibilities), above average damage (for power) and stealth gain(cnd).

I meant it more as a team tool
they way I went about in the short time I was developing our classes permamight zergball role (there’s our zerg build! LOL), was (and as I said, with a finisher in it dropped, how now brown cow?)
1-aa with burn attached to end
2-defensive field (opposed to SB’s offensive blast – the blast was a last second thing that wasn’t well thought out, okay, but I was trying to be creative here).
3-an active defense (blind/confusion, evade+boon removal, a PW-esque ability that didn’t even lock the target for a moment but put up a blind field and had a short evade like pw, then an oddball – like unload is – the incendiary round – acts like an engineers 1 on pistol, but adds burning to primary, and small radius around that with explosion damage)
4-utility – with a drawback. we have means to remove them, necros have means to remove them from us, other classes can cleanse them, they can be converted to a boon, further enforcing group role (and one of our active cleanses, is a cleanse for teammates as well).
5-utility+bonus – interrupt ala headshot in melee range, with a bonus burn if you interrupted a skill.

edit: sorry I suck at formatting. A lot.