Guild Wars 2

I hitted an engi for 17k today, kittening love thieves.

Bringing back assassins would eb awesome tbh, perhaps when they introduce a new weapon set?

I miss Assassins.

@OP: Instead of writing pointless threads, read the patch notes.

everything u want u can get with a warrior so roll one

Why the hell would you want to nerf burst further?

just let it die in peace.

Excalibur.9748:

just let it die in peace.

Yes! Take a stand and delete your thief! Show everyone you won’t deal with their petty BS anymore!

I guess some things never change

Isn’t the point of a thief to be stealthed and burst people down in our stealth. The point of low health, high damage, and high skill level, is to have to play skillfully, and if you do, you are rewarded.

a t s e.9614:

I’m more rewarded without any skill playing hambow warr. Stealth truly is useless, only with the blind on stealth to deal with melees , but can’t do anything againsts necros. If you are so skilled can you post a vid of you beating a terror\dhummfire top tier necro? I wanna see that. Also , If you read my post correctly , I said I prefer stealthless builds like S\D which is getting nerfed . If there was less stealth , the class could be more balanced.

Saying that you’re more rewarded by playing a build that is widely acknowledged to be OP is a really bad reason for nerfing an already niche profession, especially for a mechanic that only really annoys players that can’t deal with it. Stealth is an integral part of the class and a major draw for many players and frankly, by not using it at all you’re pretty much playing with one hand tied.

Necros can be beaten, they just require you to be patient. A lot of necros are smart enough to plague form/death shroud after your initial burst, but then are dumb enough to just let the duration/life force expire as you kite around them in stealth. Same tactic works with engi elite, just kite and wait it out. Once that’s out of the way, they’re a lot easier to deal with.
If you’re in WvW, lure them into mobs. They’ll have a much harder time targeting you. Force them to fight on your terms, and use every dirty trick to beat them because they’ll be doing the exact same thing to you.

I hate Necromancers, therefore I do not play one. You should maybe consider following that ideology instead of trying to ruin the class for the people who do enjoy it.

Stealth does seem like it needs a little something. I mean, most of the time when I’m fighting other thieves(especially the backstab thieves) I just put on an offhand dagger and cloak and dagger near me as soon as I seem them vanish. 9 times out of ten I’ll vanish and they’ll appear a second later wondering what just happened.

In every MMO i’ve played stealth attracts the ‘I want to be able to kill everything 1v1 and not really have to make an effort.’

The GW2 thief is capable of great things, but if you think you can just leap in and spam damage and the guy will drop, you’re going to be sorely dissapointed.

Every class is beatable, but some fights just take longer than others. A good necro will take an age to wear down.

Btw my post is tpvp oriented , so for those who kill uppleveled nabs in wvw , yes thief might be strong to you . But can’t do anything in a huge aoe\condi spam which is the current pvp meta. I’m not trying to ruin the class but save it before it’s late. Or I as I said , .they need to add more options for those who don’t like stealth.

Stealth is not the problem, is the lack of knowledge people has is.

Is just stupid how people thinks . . . they want to kill every single profession pressing # 1.

I can not kill a good:

-Perma boon guardian.

-Or a S/S SB warrior

-Or a condi mesmer

All this 3 profession has cheesy mechanics, equally cheesy or even more that stealth.

Like mesmer, teleporting and going stealth while his clones stacks a lot of conditions constantly.

YOU as a thief must stop saying there is something wrong about stealth or evades.

They are our defense mechanics and is what make this game great . . . it will be a hell boring to all run mitigation skills.

There is nothing wrong with stealth when we have clones, turrets, 0 damage mitigation, stability, perma boon, insane healing, etc, etc etc.

I will repost this from before (edited a bit)…

So the thing is…
People don’t want to be dropped in 3 seconds, regardless of what it means for the person that’s killing them (or the over-all/global context). They want to fight, and feel like the fight is fair.

You brought up (GW1) assassins, remember BoA/Shadow Prison assassin? Here’s a video of an average BoA assassin day

The nice part about that video, is that it’s not a montage, meaning it shows what happens to the assassin AFTER they killed their target or failed to do so. You can kind of see that it’s sort of iffy when you will take down a target if you don’t use proper judgment. You can see that really, if he killed 1 person it was good, if he made it out live it was just amazing (then proceeded to run around waiting for CDs). Some planning/judgment does need to take place to decide who to jump and who not to jump.
Despite all this, people cried that the build was OP, and it was eventually nerf-ed (rendering it completely useless).
Assassin type builds will NEVER exist, where their sole purpose is to drop one guy and gtfo or be killed.

Stealth in this game, on some levels I have to agree that it’s badly handled only because the enemy can’t force* a thief out of stealth or detect the thief in stealth. WoW’s rogues when they came too close too you (touching you pretty much), you would see them, hunters could put up flares that revealed stealth within a certain area…. In LoL there’s oracles, there’s wards (if you don’t use them it’s your fault)… I believe in most games where there’s stealth the enemy gets a way to reveal stealthed units.

Combine “no way for the enemy to detect stealth” issue with “wanting a fair fight”…. tada! you got a problem.

And so, when Dec. 10th does go through, and a thief build manages to 1v1 people, and it becomes a build/flavor of choice for 1v1/roaming/scouting, people will complain once more, calling it OP/broken/abusive.

Elaborate a bit further on wanting a fair fight… or the term fight in general. Most of my friend’s (in real life, yes I have those) understanding of a fight is what you would see on UFC. While I agree that that is fighting, but to a certain extent it’s also not. In UFC they get points for dominating/controlling the ring, points for doing this and that… there’s rules set in place so that not too much harm is done between the two fighters. And they’re view (my friends) is limited to that and just a little beyond that… My concept of fighting can range from anything UFC like and even more restrictive – to – no rules (sand in eyes/kick to crotch), anything goes (use of objects), last person standing/alive is the “winner” (hey, we’re animals after all, look at them). Yes the extreme is that fighting can lead to death. Clearly you can say, and it’s proper to say, wars were “fought” between X and Y. That being said, the same can be applied to fights within a game, or people’s concepts of fighting in games.

Nerf stealth to the ground. Remove it entirely I don’t care. The weekly QQ from bads that won’t L2P is too much to handle. The truth is those same bads would get rolled by thieves even if it doesn’t have stealth since it’d have something else.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/The-Topic-of-Stealth-yes-again/page/5#post3233481

If thieves have stealth removed, they essentially become warriors, with 1/3 of the hp pool and 1/4 of the armour and no health regen and no CC.

But yeah, why not remove it…

phaeris.7604:

If thieves have stealth removed, they essentially become warriors, with 1/3 of the hp pool and 1/4 of the armour and no health regen and no CC.

But yeah, why not remove it…

like you said, stealth is just a crutch for thieves. it’s like critical mass for wizards in Diablo 3 which is about to be nerfed/removed (same thing as stealth in this game) and most wizard mains are happy (i’m very happy too) because the class itself doesn’t have to be balanced around it and will actually be good in PvP now

just FYI, many thieves and i don’t use stealth because we come from guild wars 1 where the assassin didn’t depend on stealth and/or just gameplay preference. Sanduskel may be a troll but sometimes i agree with him.

i disagree, stealth is a fun mechanic and is not OP.

The problem is that at begging of the game thief was in a very good position and a lot of QQ came to this forum make in us until now that it is OP.

Same happened with D/D ele.

There is a lot of people damaging the community, people like the one you mention that is constantly trying to make his point even if has no sense.

Stealth will not disappear ever, deal with it.

What is probably going to happen is adjust things like perma stealth (already happening) so we must stop making this threads again and again and agian . . .

Is just funny how people loves to call cheesy to any good build around . . . not only with thieves.

Warriors use to complain a lot of anything back days, now they suffer the same as us, it is a endless cycle that can only finish if we stop making troll post and QQ for every build we can not kill spamming # 1.

You can nerf thieves all you want but anet will never really give the class a buff.

Hard to catch as master trait is not a buff.
Asssassins Reward healing increase is not a buff.
Init regen is a buff but compared to the huge init nerfs across the boards it’s an over all nerf.

Everything else is just a plain nerf.

So while thieves get nerfed into the ground they receive no buffs anywhere else offered as alternatives to huge nerfs.

True story!

Stealth is a stupid mechanic, it’s hard to balance, boring and repetitive for the one forced to use it and frustrating for the rest of the players.

After so many generic MMOs game designers should have noticed it already especially those making "not another MMO", but apparently not.

yeat atse that is right what u say.the main problem is, the thief is designed around stealth and not stealth around the class.

a t s e.9614:

The problem is not stealth . The real problem is that stealth is too important for thieves > blind on stealth , regen on stealth , condi removal on stealth , init gain on stealth . But while stealthed you can’t contest a point and still vulnerable to aoe and conditions spam. Thieves have no chance in a team fight because of the lack of sustain .

It would be possible to achieve balance if everything wasent built around instagib 1. singletarget . That’s why it’s hard to balance thief class , it cant do anything besides from 1v1 , and even in 1v1 cant survive AoE.

A lot more accurate now.

About stealth a stupid mechanic . . . LOL

Clones are stupid?
Complete mitigation of damage is stupid?
Insane passive healing is stupid?
Second health bar is stupid?
Mist forms to evade all is stupid?
AOE conditions spamm is stupid?

I could go on and on and on.

Stealth is the main characteristic of a thief in this game, saying it is stupid is the same that saying any of the above are stupid.

This forum seems to be full of people that went to WvW walking alone to get achievements and got killed by a roamer thief.

If not then why in the SPVP no one care about thief mechanics? tell me why.

I wonder if you know how to read lol . If you find the word stupid in any of my previous posts I will give you 100g. And I don’t do wvw , I do tpvp and thieves cant survive the AoEeven with stealth.

Why the would you be standing in AoE to begin with? I mean, far be it for me, a lowly WvWer to question the vastly superior skills of a Tournament PvPer, but I find the concept of standing in “The Stupid” to be pretty universal: Don’t bloody do it!

I don’t get why everyone believes that every class should do everything well. Yes, I get that the original big deal about GW2 was that there is no Holy Trinity, that there are a variety of builds each class can do. However, when did that ever mean that every class can do everything another class can do and just as effectively? Each class has their own niches and Thieves have Stealth – deal with it or roll a class that suits you better!

Why would I stand in the aoe ? To defend a node maybe ?? If I lose the node , I lose at least 15pts while fighting in and out of combat . A class that can’t sustain a fight has no place in PvP . And if I go in stealth , I lose the point aswell.

I will wait till anet decides to do something about thieves, until then I"ll facerolll on my warr. And I never said if you do WvW you are bad , it’s just not the same situation in PvP. Wvw thieves can pretty much kill anything with 110% crit dmg \food\buffs . It may even be too strong in wvw. But in PvP nope, the only good build is S\D and it’s based on evades\teleports only. They need to make more traits and weapons for stealthless thieves.

Sorry a t s e the comment was for Spiuk.8421.

I reply wrong.

a t s e.9614:

Why would I stand in the aoe ? To defend a node maybe ?? If I lose the node , I lose at least 15pts while fighting in and out of combat . A class that can’t sustain a fight has no place in PvP . And if I go in stealth , I lose the point aswell.

I will wait till anet decides to do something about thieves, until then I"ll facerolll on my warr. And I never said if you do WvW you are bad , it’s just not the same situation in PvP. Wvw thieves can pretty much kill anything with 110% crit dmg \food\buffs . It may even be too strong in wvw. But in PvP nope, the only good build is S\D and it’s based on evades\teleports only. They need to make more traits and weapons for stealthless thieves.

If thieves are bad taking AOE damage is fine for me and for others.

Maybe the role of the thief is not made to cap, maybe it is focused to decap and kill fast.

Maybe the problem is that there only one game mode in SPVP.

Maybe the beautiful thing about MMO professions is that they are different and people can select what are they going to good at.

This thing that people has that want their profession to do all the other does.

Is the same in WvW when people QQ because a thief stealth and scapes. Is the only one thing that is actually good at and they still complain.

Only glass cannon thieves need to worry about aoes any more than other classes. Properly specced thieves are no more vulnerable than most classes. The problem is all of the glass cannon thieves who don’t spec for survivability. They get what they deserve.

a t s e.9614:

Why would I stand in the aoe ? To defend a node maybe ?? If I lose the node , I lose at least 15pts while fighting in and out of combat . A class that can’t sustain a fight has no place in PvP . And if I go in stealth , I lose the point aswell.

I will wait till anet decides to do something about thieves, until then I"ll facerolll on my warr. And I never said if you do WvW you are bad , it’s just not the same situation in PvP. Wvw thieves can pretty much kill anything with 110% crit dmg \food\buffs . It may even be too strong in wvw. But in PvP nope, the only good build is S\D and it’s based on evades\teleports only. They need to make more traits and weapons for stealthless thieves.

Maybe just don’t stand in the circle then.
I used to run a power ranger. Longbow. 30/25/15 or 30/20/20 respectively. She never ONCE stood in a circle unless there was no defender around. It was all about the mobility granted by greatsword. Point captured? Great. Move on. Enemy trying to take point? Unless an ally comes, move out. Two guys fight for a point? Now, that’s, where the money is at. two guys fight for a point, probably held by the enemy or neutral. Just unleash the burst and down that guy before he even realizes, there is a second guy out there for his blood. Then move on to the next point. Go roam and leave the point holding to the tanky guys.

But then again, that was before the meta shifted to conditions. Back then, Guardians were practically gods and the only counter known to man was a trapper ranger. There are no bunkers anymore, who can truly fight for a point as long, as they used to back then, because at some point, they will crumble under the condition pressure, thus the value of dedicated roamers is going down, reflecting that change.
Still, it might be worth a shot, going for full burst instead of sustain and testing the results.

S/P is a beast in sPVP/tPvP, use that if u don’t want stealth, as simple as that. I can easily take on 2 enemies by completely shutting them down via stuns/daze without even having to pick up stealth skills to survive.

Doggie.3184:

I miss Assassins.

same here; it was Balanced for sure.

How many more threads and posts will it take, for Arena.net to finally balance this class?

500? = little
5,000?= too little
5,000,000= not even close
5,000,000,000= Never

Case Closed

(always remember; every nerf to this class, are an excuse to not rework this class)

you will see… again

Burnfall.9573:

Doggie.3184:

I miss Assassins.

same here; it was Balanced for sure.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not.

Zero Day.2594:

… fair fight… …

One class, one build, for everyone, that makes a fair fight. But this is not that kind of game, it’s an RPG so there will be differences between player-characters, builds and classes and there will be both bad match-ups and imbalances . It’s what people want with this kind of game, or they would (should) be playing other games.

Imagi.4561:

Burnfall.9573:

Doggie.3184:

I miss Assassins.

same here; it was Balanced for sure.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not.

I’m serious

Assassins were the true thieves in the previous life; having no stealth, having no invincibility, having no power of time, having no power of control.

Here.. In this present life, thieves are eternal beings, having everything in their full control at any given time, at any given moment!!.

Who Dare question the God of Time!!

Who Dare question the God of Control!!

Who Dare express Hatred toward the Ultimate God!!

Dare I say, No one!!

Now… run for your petty lives and await your instant silent death

Burnfall.9573:

Imagi.4561:

Burnfall.9573:

Doggie.3184:

I miss Assassins.

same here; it was Balanced for sure.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not.

I’m serious

Assassins were the true thieves in the previous life; having no stealth, having no invincibility, having no power of time, having no power of control.

Here.. In this present life, thieves are eternal beings, having everything in their full control at any given time, at any given moment!!.

Who Dare question the God of Time!!

Who Dare question the God of Control!!

Who Dare express Hatred toward the Ultimate God!!

Dare I say, No one!!

Now… run for your petty lives and await your instant silent death

oh my god OH MY GOD!!!!!! HIDE WIVES AND CHILDREN!!!! THIEVES ARE COMING!!

Imagi.4561:

Burnfall.9573:

Doggie.3184:

I miss Assassins.

same here; it was Balanced for sure.

I can’t tell if that’s sarcastic or not.

It’s full of pain and tears.

That guy is either roleplaying on the forums, or he thinks he’s a real-life paladin, and folks who play thieves are actually evil and deserve some form of divine punishment.

Online gaming attracts some interesting folks.

Oghier.7419:

Online gaming attracts some interesting folks.

That is the most divine of all divine truths.

Yup, got infracted

WORTH IT

Zero Day.2594:

I will repost this from before (edited a bit)…

So the thing is…
People don’t want to be dropped in 3 seconds, regardless of what it means for the person that’s killing them (or the over-all/global context). They want to fight, and feel like the fight is fair.

You brought up (GW1) assassins, remember BoA/Shadow Prison assassin? Here’s a video of an average BoA assassin day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKAiodYdUbQ

The nice part about that video, is that it’s not a montage, meaning it shows what happens to the assassin AFTER they killed their target or failed to do so. You can kind of see that it’s sort of iffy when you will take down a target if you don’t use proper judgment. You can see that really, if he killed 1 person it was good, if he made it out live it was just amazing (then proceeded to run around waiting for CDs). Some planning/judgment does need to take place to decide who to jump and who not to jump.
Despite all this, people cried that the build was OP, and it was eventually nerf-ed (rendering it completely useless).
Assassin type builds will NEVER exist, where their sole purpose is to drop one guy and gtfo or be killed.

Stealth in this game, on some levels I have to agree that it’s badly handled only because the enemy can’t force* a thief out of stealth or detect the thief in stealth. WoW’s rogues when they came too close too you (touching you pretty much), you would see them, hunters could put up flares that revealed stealth within a certain area…. In LoL there’s oracles, there’s wards (if you don’t use them it’s your fault)… I believe in most games where there’s stealth the enemy gets a way to reveal stealthed units.

Combine “no way for the enemy to detect stealth” issue with “wanting a fair fight”…. tada! you got a problem.

And so, when Dec. 10th does go through, and a thief build manages to 1v1 people, and it becomes a build/flavor of choice for 1v1/roaming/scouting, people will complain once more, calling it OP/broken/abusive.

Elaborate a bit further on wanting a fair fight… or the term fight in general. Most of my friend’s (in real life, yes I have those) understanding of a fight is what you would see on UFC. While I agree that that is fighting, but to a certain extent it’s also not. In UFC they get points for dominating/controlling the ring, points for doing this and that… there’s rules set in place so that not too much harm is done between the two fighters. And they’re view (my friends) is limited to that and just a little beyond that… My concept of fighting can range from anything UFC like and even more restrictive – to – no rules (sand in eyes/kick to crotch), anything goes (use of objects), last person standing/alive is the “winner” (hey, we’re animals after all, look at them). Yes the extreme is that fighting can lead to death. Clearly you can say, and it’s proper to say, wars were “fought” between X and Y. That being said, the same can be applied to fights within a game, or people’s concepts of fighting in games.

This is why the Rogue archetype is a solo character – and doesn’t really belong in an MMO.

Every Rogue class I’ve played in an MMO (WE’s in WAR were the longest for me) suffered from exactly the same problem.

They don’t have a place in group combat.

By their very nature, the Rogue is a Solo – more fitting for a single player RPG, like Thief, rather than an MMO.

Anet will not solve this fundamental dilemma, because they believe that the problem lies in small tweaks to traits and balancing skills.

The Thief isn’t a group archetype – it’s a Solo class.

RIP Thief

SoLeciTO.3490:

a t s e.9614:

Why would I stand in the aoe ? To defend a node maybe ?? If I lose the node , I lose at least 15pts while fighting in and out of combat . A class that can’t sustain a fight has no place in PvP . And if I go in stealth , I lose the point aswell.

I will wait till anet decides to do something about thieves, until then I"ll facerolll on my warr. And I never said if you do WvW you are bad , it’s just not the same situation in PvP. Wvw thieves can pretty much kill anything with 110% crit dmg \food\buffs . It may even be too strong in wvw. But in PvP nope, the only good build is S\D and it’s based on evades\teleports only. They need to make more traits and weapons for stealthless thieves.

If thieves are bad taking AOE damage is fine for me and for others.

Maybe the role of the thief is not made to cap, maybe it is focused to decap and kill fast.

Maybe the problem is that there only one game mode in SPVP.

Maybe the beautiful thing about MMO professions is that they are different and people can select what are they going to good at.

This thing that people has that want their profession to do all the other does.

Is the same in WvW when people QQ because a thief stealth and scapes. Is the only one thing that is actually good at and they still complain.

The problem is that the Thief won’t really do anything well – any conceivable role you can think of, is better filled by another class.

Solo archetypes work great in WvW. Your job just changes — you’re the sneaky, mobile guy working way behind the lines, disrupting supply, picking off stragglers and scouting enemy positions. I play mine like a U-Boat working the mid-atlantic in 1940. It’s a fun playstyle. Not nearly as rewarding as riding the karma train, but you make a difference.

Oghier.7419:

Solo archetypes work great in WvW. Your job just changes — you’re the sneaky, mobile guy working way behind the lines, disrupting supply, picking off stragglers and scouting enemy positions. I play mine like a U-Boat working the mid-atlantic in 1940. It’s a fun playstyle. Not nearly as rewarding as riding the karma train, but you make a difference.

I agree with you that the playstyle is fun – even small, 2-3 (wo)man groups are fun doing this – I don’t think this is as effective as it sounds.

Other classes can “roam” as well – what makes the Thief particularly good at it? Nothing.

Also, the majority of players are highly social – this lone ranger kind of style only appeals to a very small player base – which is fine in and of itself, but I wouldn’t design an entire class around it, rather I’d make a few small specialty builds within a couple classes that can do it better than others.

This thiefs is very good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMPGO6i-bd0