So only the dedicated players are left. I run a s/d + sb build myself in sPvP / WvW / PvE and although I am facerolling the BS builds in most cases, I’m so sick and tired of that single spam ability crap.
My last 4 matches today was 8vs8 with on both sides atleast 4 BS thiefs, nuking anyone down who even spawned outside of stealth. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it as two or more BS thiefs is instant death, no matter how skilled you are.
So yes, I hope they nerf the hell out of our class so all those kittens roll the next flavor of the month class. After those people rerolled, the devs should buff thief up again in small increments to avoid another wave of this crap.
2 thieves vs 1 thief is insta death or u run away anyway. And most of bachstab heartseeker thieves are just bad … they dont even utilize backstab they just get their nerdrage phase on and spam heartseeker for 600 damage untill their initiative is gone, then use blidning powder or refuge to hide … I have no idea how such thief can kill anyone… no clue. I realize that Dagger mainhand thief is strong, but it needs to learn some positioning and stealthy playstyle, not just spam HS, which is NOT EFFECTIVE AT ALL, if u die to it then its your problem.
Considering Anet have already said that shatter mesmers (the other fotm) will get nerfed, I really hope that BS thieves get hit with the nerf bat as well. I’ve got nothing against thieves (I wouldn’t have a lvl80 thief otherwise) but the current abundance of BS thieves isn’t only ruining spvp, it’s also ruining the rep of all other forms of thief builds.
I agree that the BS thief should get abit nerfed in damage, but also compensated in health / armor or something else. I don’t think that the problem comes from the backstab itself, the combination between being behind the target, full berserker gear and the 50% damage signet is what makes it so kittened up.
Anet seems to nerf the kitten out of thieves without giving them something in return. An example is Dancing dagger that got nerfed by 50% and CnD by 33% without an compensation?!?! That’s just crazy imo.
So let me understand :
heartseeker spammers are bad, unskilled but they can faceroll everybody.
Looks like is an viable build
Can anybody share the traits /utility’s for this build ?
I agree that the BS thief should get abit nerfed in damage, but also compensated in health / armor or something else. I don’t think that the problem comes from the backstab itself, the combination between being behind the target, full berserker gear and the 50% damage signet is what makes it so kittened up.
Anet seems to nerf the kitten out of thieves without giving them something in return. An example is Dancing dagger that got nerfed by 50% and CnD by 33% without an compensation?!?! That’s just crazy imo.
It would go a long way towards fixing BS damage (I don’t consider it a nerf since I consider it to be broken) if they removed the ability to precast with steal/mug. Make it cancel the cast like using another skill or dodging does and they will still have BS from stealth but without the broken mechanic in place right now.
Regarding the nerfs to dancing dagger and CnD (and HS) with nothing i return, it was probably because they were judged to be OP and thus simply nerfed instead of had things moved around.
2 thieves vs 1 thief is insta death or u run away anyway. And most of bachstab heartseeker thieves are just bad … they dont even utilize backstab they just get their nerdrage phase on and spam heartseeker for 600 damage untill their initiative is gone, then use blidning powder or refuge to hide … I have no idea how such thief can kill anyone… no clue. I realize that Dagger mainhand thief is strong, but it needs to learn some positioning and stealthy playstyle, not just spam HS, which is NOT EFFECTIVE AT ALL, if u die to it then its your problem.
Im sorry but you have no idea wat HS spamming does to glass cannon classes even at full health the kitten still hits 4ks+ x.x even on my necro 2.5k armor it still hits for that much i had a thief literally spam HS untill i was downed i couldnt do anything about it because i was fight 2 warriors x.x And another example even on my mes aswell spam spam SPAM SPAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jesus christ do these guys do anything but spam 2 all day let me freakin use haste and spam 2 on you and see how u feel about it x.x lol
Period point blank its a verry verry strong skill no matter which way how you put it and combined with haste will take u from 100% hp to nothing if your not careful but its so quick that you can barely react to that crap D/D GC and heartseeker spamming is strong indeed to next time play the class before you even make a comment like that . Majority of the triats that GC thiefs that go with D/D they take every trait that makes that weapon set even stronger and when your below a certain amount of health they get an even bigger damage boost.
2 thieves vs 1 thief is insta death or u run away anyway. And most of bachstab heartseeker thieves are just bad … they dont even utilize backstab they just get their nerdrage phase on and spam heartseeker for 600 damage untill their initiative is gone, then use blidning powder or refuge to hide … I have no idea how such thief can kill anyone… no clue. I realize that Dagger mainhand thief is strong, but it needs to learn some positioning and stealthy playstyle, not just spam HS, which is NOT EFFECTIVE AT ALL, if u die to it then its your problem.
Im sorry but you have no idea wat HS spamming does to glass cannon classes even at full health the kitten still hits 4ks+ x.x even on my necro 2.5k armor it still hits for that much i had a thief literally spam HS untill i was downed i couldnt do anything about it because i was fight 2 warriors x.x And another example even on my mes aswell spam spam SPAM SPAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jesus christ do these guys do anything but spam 2 all day let me freakin use haste and spam 2 on you and see how u feel about it x.x lol
Period point blank its a verry verry strong skill no matter which way how you put it and combined with haste will take u from 100% hp to nothing if your not careful but its so quick that you can barely react to that crap D/D GC and heartseeker spamming is strong indeed to next time play the class before you even make a comment like that . Majority of the triats that GC thiefs that go with D/D they take every trait that makes that weapon set even stronger and when your below a certain amount of health they get an even bigger damage boost.
Yes actually I am playing thief myself, just not HS bunny. And no, HS damage at full health doesnt hit you 4 k lol, 2k crits at max. Only when u get down to 50 % health and they are speced into executioner u could see 4-5 k crits. I have been hit by heartseeker for 5 k, but i was at about 25-35 % HP, probablly at the lower end. You say you was downed by heartseeker spaming thief WHEN you was fighting 2 warriors, well here we have a reason of you geting downed by heartseeker spamming thief and its 2x warriors pummeling on your head. How mad you would become if you would have been downed 3d warrior with 100b then ?
Oh and do u realize what other glass cannon AUTO ATTACK does to glass cannon thief ?
I’m trying to grasp the meaning of the topic. Die to 2 or 3 players so the class should be nerfed…….. the build you “faceroll” in most cases. Once they are nerfed and you can take all those BS theives, should your build be nerfed since you’re taking out 3 by yourself?
I’m trying to grasp the meaning of the topic. Die to 2 or 3 players so the class should be nerfed…….. the build you “faceroll” in most cases. Once they are nerfed and you can take all those BS theives, should your build be nerfed since you’re taking out 3 by yourself?
Yes, Nurf Every class so even mobs could faceroll us ! !
I think what the OP wants is the same thing every thief with any skill at all wants…. a respectable class.
We don’t run the cheese builds but because so many failures do, we are slapped with a bad name. Currently 90% or more of the noobs funnel into ONE class because it has the most noob friendly, entry level build.
I, and all of my friends, would like to see the noob population spread out a bit more among the classes.
OP: No good thief wants to be lumped in with the rest, I understand.
However, a lot of what I’ve seen proposed as nerfs would hurt thieves across the board, but especially S/D, P/D, or anything that uses stealth offensively for sustained rather than burst damage. It’s probably hard to make even minor nerfs without hurting or even ruining some of the less popular builds, which is ultimately what I’m afraid of.
OP: No good thief wants to be lumped in with the rest, I understand.
However, a lot of what I’ve seen proposed as nerfs would hurt thieves across the board, but especially S/D, P/D, or anything that uses stealth offensively for sustained rather than burst damage. It’s probably hard to make even minor nerfs without hurting or even ruining some of the less popular builds, which is ultimately what I’m afraid of.
Nerfing backstab directly would do nothing to hurt the other builds. Heartseeker’s damage I really feel is quite balanced as it’s really only valuable as a finisher. It could have range shortened just a hair and the initiative cost raised by 1, though.
OP: No good thief wants to be lumped in with the rest, I understand.
However, a lot of what I’ve seen proposed as nerfs would hurt thieves across the board, but especially S/D, P/D, or anything that uses stealth offensively for sustained rather than burst damage. It’s probably hard to make even minor nerfs without hurting or even ruining some of the less popular builds, which is ultimately what I’m afraid of.
Nerfing backstab directly would do nothing to hurt the other builds. Heartseeker’s damage I really feel is quite balanced as it’s really only valuable as a finisher. It could have range shortened just a hair and the initiative cost raised by 1, though.
Agreed. I was more referring to changes to stealth, especially the revealed timer. Too much time added to it means that S/D and other rare-ish builds could face extinction. There’s some other stuff too but I can’t think of it now.
Backstab getting a damage nerf in PvP would be a long time coming IMO.
Nerfing BS in PvP will do nothing, as 99% of complaints are coming from WvW (which aren’t, atm, affected by PvP nerfing). Once you get past entry lv in s/tPvP, you rarely see BS thieves, or if you do know how to deal with them.
I do agree with you that people calling for a nerf to stealth don’t know what they are talking about. Stealth doesn’t affect BS/HS thieves nearly as much as it does for other builds.
I tried to play a thief and it felt like I was playing the class for dummies so I deleted him right away. I know that seems insulting, but its really how I felt.
I mean you start with a dagger and the first ability unlock is Heartseeker which is your go-to spam move for a dagger build. It starts you out by teaching you the proper method to play a thief is 2-2-2-2-2.
Then you can go to youtube and find countless videos where its 2-2-2-2-2 for daggers, or 3-3-3-3-3 for pistols, or some guy with a shortbow who never stops teleporting…. then you come to the forums and read these claims that its not a one button class, or that thief doesnt have insane mobility….
and it just feels like its the class for dummies.
.
I would love nothing more than to play an exciting thief class that really took a noticeable amount of skill to shine at, but this current model just is not it.
What I’d suggest in order to make the BS build less OP without nerfing the other builds:
-Remove the ability to precast with steal. It would mean that thieves can still backstab if they time their stealth right but it would require more skill to do it and increase the window for the victim to react a bit without being too long.
-Make HS not auto target the enemy but instead jump straight forward. Again, it would mean that HS would require a bit more skill to use and wouldn’t be as OP as it is now.
-Fix the stealth bug in WvW. Ok, this might hurt all stealth users but it is a bug and should be fixed.
As a d/d thief using conditions, created 25th of August, I sometimes worry that I’ll be taken for a fotm build.
So only the dedicated players are left. I run a s/d + sb build myself in sPvP / WvW / PvE and although I am facerolling the BS builds in most cases, I’m so sick and tired of that single spam ability crap.
My last 4 matches today was 8vs8 with on both sides atleast 4 BS thiefs, nuking anyone down who even spawned outside of stealth. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it as two or more BS thiefs is instant death, no matter how skilled you are.
So yes, I hope they nerf the hell out of our class so all those kittens roll the next flavor of the month class. After those people rerolled, the devs should buff thief up again in small increments to avoid another wave of this crap.
Translation: I died 2v1 and so the class is broken.
What I’d suggest in order to make the BS build less OP without nerfing the other builds:
-Remove the ability to precast with steal. It would mean that thieves can still backstab if they time their stealth right but it would require more skill to do it and increase the window for the victim to react a bit without being too long.
-Make HS not auto target the enemy but instead jump straight forward. Again, it would mean that HS would require a bit more skill to use and wouldn’t be as OP as it is now.
-Fix the stealth bug in WvW. Ok, this might hurt all stealth users but it is a bug and should be fixed.
As a d/d thief using conditions, created 25th of August, I sometimes worry that I’ll be taken for a fotm build.
Well any off hand dagger build uses precast CnD, not only Basilisk/CnD/Steal/backstab/HS bunnies. I Use P/D and i use that to fool my enemies for example.
Same goes for S/D, precast CnD/Steal/Daze. ANd actually there is no difference for burst build if u precast CnD or not, becouse 9 times out of 10 u will be using basilisk venom, so u can just steal and cnd then.
What I’d suggest in order to make the BS build less OP without nerfing the other builds:
-Remove the ability to precast with steal. It would mean that thieves can still backstab if they time their stealth right but it would require more skill to do it and increase the window for the victim to react a bit without being too long.
-Make HS not auto target the enemy but instead jump straight forward. Again, it would mean that HS would require a bit more skill to use and wouldn’t be as OP as it is now.
-Fix the stealth bug in WvW. Ok, this might hurt all stealth users but it is a bug and should be fixed.
As a d/d thief using conditions, created 25th of August, I sometimes worry that I’ll be taken for a fotm build.
Well any off hand dagger build uses precast CnD, not only Basilisk/CnD/Steal/backstab/HS bunnies. I Use P/D and i use that to fool my enemies for example.
Hmm, true. Although p/d isn’t as positioning dependent for the quick burst so while it would affect that build I wouldn’t say overly much and there is still shadowstep and infiltrator arrow. I agree that my idea isn’t perfect but I’ll stick with it being IMO the best one I’ve seen so far ;-)
I tried to play a thief and it felt like I was playing the class for dummies so I deleted him right away. I know that seems insulting, but its really how I felt.
I mean you start with a dagger and the first ability unlock is Heartseeker which is your go-to spam move for a dagger build. It starts you out by teaching you the proper method to play a thief is 2-2-2-2-2.
Then you can go to youtube and find countless videos where its 2-2-2-2-2 for daggers, or 3-3-3-3-3 for pistols, or some guy with a shortbow who never stops teleporting…. then you come to the forums and read these claims that its not a one button class, or that thief doesnt have insane mobility….
and it just feels like its the class for dummies.
.
I would love nothing more than to play an exciting thief class that really took a noticeable amount of skill to shine at, but this current model just is not it.
Funny you fail to mention Sword in any of those “spam” builds…… The issue I take is just saying all thieves are button spamming noobs…..Do they exist? Sure…maybe even a majority in pug sPvP stuff and in WvW…..
But as a thief playing a build most complain about as totally impossible to play; I find it incredibly insulting that people are so quick to dismiss “thief” as “ezmode”.
You can consider every class/weapon few button spam class/choise then, since every weapon has 5 attacks And again for those that manage to die from HS spam 100-0 % life u should go play kitty online
You can consider every class/weapon few button spam class/choise then, since every weapon has 5 attacks
I think his definition of “spam” in this context is hitting the same button over and over in quick succession. Aside from the 1st ability which is intended to be auto attack….no class other than thief can be a true “spam” class.
2 thieves vs 1 thief is insta death or u run away anyway. And most of bachstab heartseeker thieves are just bad … they dont even utilize backstab they just get their nerdrage phase on and spam heartseeker for 600 damage untill their initiative is gone, then use blidning powder or refuge to hide … I have no idea how such thief can kill anyone… no clue. I realize that Dagger mainhand thief is strong, but it needs to learn some positioning and stealthy playstyle, not just spam HS, which is NOT EFFECTIVE AT ALL, if u die to it then its your problem.
Im sorry but you have no idea wat HS spamming does to glass cannon classes even at full health the kitten still hits 4ks+ x.x even on my necro 2.5k armor it still hits for that much i had a thief literally spam HS untill i was downed i couldnt do anything about it because i was fight 2 warriors x.x And another example even on my mes aswell spam spam SPAM SPAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jesus christ do these guys do anything but spam 2 all day let me freakin use haste and spam 2 on you and see how u feel about it x.x lol
Period point blank its a verry verry strong skill no matter which way how you put it and combined with haste will take u from 100% hp to nothing if your not careful but its so quick that you can barely react to that crap D/D GC and heartseeker spamming is strong indeed to next time play the class before you even make a comment like that . Majority of the triats that GC thiefs that go with D/D they take every trait that makes that weapon set even stronger and when your below a certain amount of health they get an even bigger damage boost.
Yes actually I am playing thief myself, just not HS bunny. And no, HS damage at full health doesnt hit you 4 k lol, 2k crits at max. Only when u get down to 50 % health and they are speced into executioner u could see 4-5 k crits. I have been hit by heartseeker for 5 k, but i was at about 25-35 % HP, probablly at the lower end. You say you was downed by heartseeker spaming thief WHEN you was fighting 2 warriors, well here we have a reason of you geting downed by heartseeker spamming thief and its 2x warriors pummeling on your head. How mad you would become if you would have been downed 3d warrior with 100b then ?
Oh and do u realize what other glass cannon AUTO ATTACK does to glass cannon thief ?
why dont you go get a glass cannon necro or mesmer and go spam HS on them at full health trust me it hits over 4k. its pretty rediculous damage or your not taking the right traits if i can hit freakin 3ks+ with just my auto attack on my thief when i crit then you definitly arnt glass cannon at all. and u say below 50% health yes its much much higher than you think i once crit a freakin 7.6k on a warrior before its redonculous damage it does. And aswell the warriors didnt even get me past 21k health for your information lol they were verry verry bad i downed 1 then the thief came out of nowhere out of stealth and he had haste bam SPAM SPAM SPAM dead. before i even knew wtf was happening. IF your really a thief you should know the traits that make D/D verry deadly indeed.
The point is thief you really dont have to see comming at all some will stealth before you even notice anyone is thier and come out and freakin auto attack you to death trust me ive done it multiple times and just have done it with my S/D thief an hour ago this class is the easiest to kill people with/Barely any risk of getting killed in the process if you do it right. this is why people want it toned down but merely i just want that backstab damage and steal damage a tad bit lowered cuz its overboard atm but they will need to compensate in other areas like the P/P really needs a buff give it some buffs and more health for you guys aswell bieng 14k hp glass cannon is verry low i would like to see that up to atleast 16 to 17k hp and fix the culling issue asap plz >.>
The build I run on my thief is, in my opinion, quite unique. It relies on fairly high defenses (vitality and toughness combined with extra stealth) as well as a fair amount of power and condition damage. My playstyle as a D/D thief is to constantly pop in and out of stealth making use of backstab and leaping death blossom to slowly wear any enemy down.
I don’t go glass cannon, I don’t use basilisk venom, I don’t use devourer venom, and I never use the steal > Cloak and Dagger “cheap shot” that glass cannon builds are notorious for.
D/D thieves have had an extremely bad name because of ONE build killing people. ONE. I hear stories of backstabs that hit for 10k; mine hit for 2-4k depending on my enemy’s build. Not all of us are using this build, but the nerfs people suggest will kill not only the troublesome build, but also mine and many others.
You obviously have not played any tPVP, because if you had, you would know backstab builds are anything BUT overpowered. The fact that you are letting backstab builds hit 10k+ on you, is purely because you decided to roll a squishy build. That is simply a consequence you should deal with and not whine about. A backstab thief can’t do kitten to a tanky guardian/warrior. The fact you are asking for nerfs simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of the class. The purpose of the thief as anet has described is to: get in, kill quickly, get out. Nerfing the backstab/HS would just hinder the WHOLE POINT of the thief. Yes thieves have high burst damage, but they also have ~12k hp, they can just as easily be burst down at the same rate.
You obviously have not played any tPVP, because if you had, you would know backstab builds are anything BUT overpowered. The fact that you are letting backstab builds hit 10k+ on you, is purely because you decided to roll a squishy build. That is simply a consequence you should deal with and not whine about. A backstab thief can’t do kitten to a tanky guardian/warrior. The fact you are asking for nerfs simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of the class. The purpose of the thief as anet has described is to: get in, kill quickly, get out. Nerfing the backstab/HS would just hinder the WHOLE POINT of the thief. Yes thieves have high burst damage, but they also have ~12k hp, they can just as easily be burst down at the same rate.
QFT. I’ve built a mega burst thief and everyone that does for any class is squishier than cotton. Don’t get me wrong, if I get caught, I’m dead for sure. If you don’t even have any toughness/vitality over 1.5k with no stunbreakers or immobilization cleanse when you get caught, you deserve to get punished for it. It’s not just thieves that do the mega burst on squishies that like go full Berserker’s or no toughness. I’ve seen dagger Eles burst down stragglers in 3 seconds with some fire field combo. My crit damage rifle warrior did a 12k Kill Shot on a 80 staff Necro who didn’t seem to have a point in toughness. I’ve even hit 10ks on piercing through a zerg. For stealth thieves, use the fact that channeled abilities follow them through stealth. Predict when they’re going to stealth and start casting. I’ve finished tons of mesmers and thieves with Volley/Kill Shot. Crowd control chains also destroy most of the BS spam thieves.
It’s the same crap in dungeons. All these pubs I’ve been getting are dropping to like auto attacks. Not just thieves. Every class. Some 80 GS Guardian in AC dropped every 15 seconds and didn’t contribute crap the entire path. Squishy builds don’t do crap for DPS if they’re going be downed every fight. Don’t roll squishy unless you’re prepared to be punished.
It’s cool, nerf the Thief.
I’ll just finish gearing my D/D Elementalist and do “BS Burst” to five people simultaneously.
sPvP = Thieves are gimmicky in hotjoin, and barely (if ever) seen in higher levels of competitive tourneys.
WvW = Is PvE and people should stop crying about what they think is imba bullkitten in the “non-structured PvP Zones”.
I wouldn’t care if they nerfed DPS, because I don’t rely on direct damage. I just don’t want them to nerf core gameplay values like stealth. Some people are this forum are suggesting things like revealed lasting 1-10M, which is insane, lol.
I wouldn’t care if they nerfed DPS, because I don’t rely on direct damage. I just don’t want them to nerf core gameplay values like stealth. Some people are this forum are suggesting things like revealed lasting 1-10M, which is insane, lol.
Typically those people that are asking for a nerf to reveal are people that don’t play Thief or understand how Thief even works.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
thier saying stealth is broken like seriously broken your a thief so you cant see yourself and wat your doing to your enemy i had one thief literally come out of stealth backstab bam back into stealth like thier was no reveal debuff at all. he was going in and out of stealth like its nothing trolling 3 of us literally and he downed 2 .. like we really could not even catch this kid. idk wtf happened but thier had to be something going on thier. because for sure i know you get a revealed debuff when u hit some 1 while in stealth.
thier saying stealth is broken like seriously broken your a thief so you cant see yourself and wat your doing to your enemy i had one thief literally come out of stealth backstab bam back into stealth like thier was no reveal debuff at all. he was going in and out of stealth like its nothing trolling 3 of us literally and he downed 2 .. like we really could not even catch this kid. idk wtf happened but thier had to be something going on thier. because for sure i know you get a revealed debuff when u hit some 1 while in stealth.
