Guild Wars 2

I’ve been messing around with my thief for the past month or so and have been trying to work out a build focusing around granting allies Boons and stripping foes of theirs. I’m still not exactly experienced, so I thought I’d ask around on the forum and see what others think.

I understand that I won’t be bursting heads off or anything, but that’s never really been my play style anyway. I’m convinced that there’s a party support option in here somewhere and I’d like to work it out. Here’s what I’m looking at thus far.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckzMc0zMmlFMmmahMmG0x0GmRcsbVk

Mainly I’m looking at 36 second cooldown steal and venoms, with the venoms (and my buffs to them) applying to allies. I’d be stacking Healing Power > Power > Toughness > Vitality > Condition Duration. I’m not looking to be a main healer, but rather to add continual stealth, regen/boons and health gains to my allies and at the expense of my enemies.

I’m hoping that the combination of poison, weakness, petrification and boon removal, paired with the multiple ways to apply boons and healing to allies, will be enough to help control the field in a way relatively unique to the thief profession.

For my armor runes I was considering Centaur, Dwayna, Monk, or Water. For my sigils I was considering some combination of any or all of Hydromancy, Energy, Venom, Debility, and Life.

When I heal, I don’t just want to heal myself — I want to be able to constantly support my allies. Centaur runes would give me a little bit extra punch and keep things moving… but if that isn’t needed then I’d have a preference to one of the other rune varieties. Water appears to be the one that’d work best, but Dwayna and the Monk are also viable.

The idea is that I want to be able to get my allies into stealth on demand using Pistol #5 + Shortbow #2 for a smoke field blast finisher combo, or Shadow Refuge for straight up stealth + heal. This means that I’ll be swapping weapons fairly often, and so Hydromancy and Energy sigils seem fairly attractive. I don’t expect to have a lot of crit chance so I’m skipping some of the more useful options (such as Nullification and Purity).

Since I want to trigger on-heal effects often (as I’m leaning toward Water or Dwayna runes), I’m opting to go with Withdraw over the other heals as it has a short cooldown and will help to keep me mobile. I’m not sure if that’s wise, so my healing skill selection is another reason why I’m coming to the forums.

Basically what I’d like to know is if anyone more skilled than myself would consider this viable or even realistic for small group play (5-10 players tops). If not, I’d like to know why and how the build could be changed to work better or more efficiently. If I’m stacking too heavily on steal and venoms, I’d like to know why and how I can diversify my bar to cover more bases and to create more options.

The build would mostly be for PvE dungeons, PvE events, and small group WvW play.

Don’t know, if you manage to kill something 20% faster you’ve basically prevented 20% damage, right?

Then again, if you want to try this, go ahead, it’s your game, and it might work just right for you.

I’d try for less complicated combo’s first, Black powder and then switching to shortbow to make it a stealth field just seems error prone.
Also, your partymembers should be aware of what you want to do, even downed players miss the significance of Shadow Refuge and keep autoattacking, blowing their stealth…
If you’re human, might want to take a look at Avatar of Melandru, the tree brings quite a bit of support.

I’m actually having a lot of fun on my thief in dungeons. I switch a few traits and utilities and viola, a support build.

First thing is, get rid of healing power. Your best healing by far comes from Leeching Venoms which were changed to scale on power. I recommend Carrion equipment (condition damage/power/vitality) if you focus on condition damage (which is easier if you go for venom share), or the power/toughness/vitality equipment from Orr temples mixed with Knight set (toughness/power/precision) if you go direct damage.

While not my spec, I’d recommend trying 20/0/30/0/20, which allows you to have venom share, leeching venoms, condition removal on stealth, lower venom cooldwon by 20%, grant party might, fury and vigor on steal, apply weakness whenever you poison and apply poison on steal. The trick to this build is not to try to heal your friends to much (you can only heal them so much), but instead to debuff your foes with weakness, poison, blinds etc. The build I use is 0/0/30/20/20 which is less supportive but has more survivability.

For weapons if you go condition damage you can use D/D since AoE bleeds are great in dungeons with alt set of P/P to spam blinds at bosses. If you go direct damage then shortbow is the way to go.

When it comes to utilities take either blinding powder or shadow refuge (Shadow refuge has extra healing, but blinding powder can be used while you are stunned to lose aggro fast and has a shorter cooldown). Either of those are great to use on downed allies when ressing them. The next two utilities that work great in dungeons are the venom that applies weakness/vulnerability, and the one that applies poison. With the build above the poison venom will also stack a lot of weakness and can help keep bosses perma-weaknessed. Be sure to be close to allies on low health when applying the venoms since the healing from leeching venom is quite good.

For Elite use Basilisk Venom – it’s shareable, it stacks, and it’s one of the few CCs that works on dungeon bosses. Run near a friend before applying it to stack extra duration of Boss being unable to react.

This build is almost an inverse of guardian and elementalist support builds, as it relies more on debuffing opponents than on buffing allies.

LiuliRenai.3928:

I’m actually having a lot of fun on my thief in dungeons. I switch a few traits and utilities and viola, a support build.

First thing is, get rid of healing power. Your best healing by far comes from Leeching Venoms which were changed to scale on power. I recommend Carrion equipment (condition damage/power/vitality) if you focus on condition damage (which is easier if you go for venom share), or the power/toughness/vitality equipment from Orr temples mixed with Knight set (toughness/power/precision) if you go direct damage.

While not my spec, I’d recommend trying 20/0/30/0/20, which allows you to have venom share, leeching venoms, condition removal on stealth, lower venom cooldwon by 20%, grant party might, fury and vigor on steal, apply weakness whenever you poison and apply poison on steal. The trick to this build is not to try to heal your friends to much (you can only heal them so much), but instead to debuff your foes with weakness, poison, blinds etc. The build I use is 0/0/30/20/20 which is less supportive but has more survivability.

For weapons if you go condition damage you can use D/D since AoE bleeds are great in dungeons with alt set of P/P to spam blinds at bosses. If you go direct damage then shortbow is the way to go.

When it comes to utilities take either blinding powder or shadow refuge (Shadow refuge has extra healing, but blinding powder can be used while you are stunned to lose aggro fast and has a shorter cooldown). Either of those are great to use on downed allies when ressing them. The next two utilities that work great in dungeons are the venom that applies weakness/vulnerability, and the one that applies poison. With the build above the poison venom will also stack a lot of weakness and can help keep bosses perma-weaknessed. Be sure to be close to allies on low health when applying the venoms since the healing from leeching venom is quite good.

For Elite use Basilisk Venom – it’s shareable, it stacks, and it’s one of the few CCs that works on dungeon bosses. Run near a friend before applying it to stack extra duration of Boss being unable to react.

This build is almost an inverse of guardian and elementalist support builds, as it relies more on debuffing opponents than on buffing allies.

Most of this is in the build I linked in my post, so it’s cool to see that I’m moving in the right direction. The wiki said that Leeching Venoms stacked with healing power — did this get changed to power recently, or where are we (or rather, where am I) getting mixed up?

After playing a guardian for a couple of months I’m eager to try out a debuff support build (as you’ve stated) — in your experience, how important is condition damage versus condition duration? Is stacking condition damage worthwhile when only bleeding and poison will benefit from it? Or is condition duration preferred for the extended vulnerability/poison/weakness debuff duration?

Regarding smoke fields and switching to the shortbow: I’m not worried about that. Right now on my guardian I sometimes play a greatsword/hammer set specifically for the Banish > Leap of Faith combo (knockback → leap, fun but not really special or competitive). It’s really not very difficult -- you can begin using skills before the bar has completely finished its skill-switch animation. Pressing 5 ` 2 in rapid succession should be non-issue, especially when I have a full four seconds to make use of the combo field.

Kerithlan.1659:

LiuliRenai.3928:

First thing is, get rid of healing power. Your best healing by far comes from Leeching Venoms which were changed to scale on power.

The wiki said that Leeching Venoms stacked with healing power — did this get changed to power recently, or where are we (or rather, where am I) getting mixed up?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Leeching-Venoms/first#post1085230

After doing a quick test in the Mists, the healing component of Leeching Venoms does not appear to interact with the Power stat, while it does appear to benefit from Healing Power.

That’s weird with healing power, patch notes claimed otherwise. Ah well. This might mean healing power could work with shadow refuge/poison venom/weakness venom utilities.

When it comes to condition duration vs damage I try to find the middle ground that will offer the most damage over time. I’m using 3 krait runes, 3 afflicted runes, and 2 agony sigils (yes they stack, tested in mists) for a +50% duration. This makes my pistol bleeds last 6 secs, my death blossom bleeds last 15 secs, while still ticking for 110+ damage. On a build with 20 points in deadly arts I’d use +30% condition duration food to push the +% duration to +100% (since pistol bleed ticks only increase every +25% of condition duration).

It’s less of a worry with the duration of weakness and poison, as even with +50% duration they should last long enough to keep bosses perma-weaknessed and perma-poisoned. Asuming you spread the venoms to a couple more people.

In my experience, it can be difficult/annoying to rely on heal procs from Withdraw because the heal (and thus the proc) triggers at the end of the roll. I quickly replaced my Centaur runes after one night of WvW for that reason.

The main issue with Venomous Aura is the very short range. It can be worth it for the immobilize/chill in small group WvW (or sPvP), but I don’t feel the benefit is even close to being worth the cost for PvE. Note that the lifesteal does not appear to share, which is a shame.

You first need to understand how you can help your party, for this you need at least 20 into trickery, pick up the steal/boon rip for your party traits, bountiful thief and thrill of the crime. This helps a ton, your hurting enemies, giving extra boons for the party, you have to think about how your weapons will support you in combat, although not just you, also your team, P/P is the best way to go, or D/D and you need at least 30 into Shadow arts for Venomous aura.

You need to pick up Devourer Venom and Spider Venom your whole squad having this makes it easier to take down enemy bunker builds by a ton, next what you need to do is know how to pay your weapon set, when equipping the SB if you use your venoms the #1 auto attack will make that venom hit multiple targets and not lose the amount of venoms, I.E 1 shot hitting 3 people wont make it so you lose 3 venom strikes, no it all counts as 1 strike. Next know that #5 will blind enemys, you need to know how to utilize your blinds, don’t waste this skill, look for sequences, when your team is being pushed back you need to blind, to help save health pols, damage taken to the bunker on the node.

How to play P/P in the group, if your supporting a bunker on the node that’s calling for help on the node, you need to rush over there and pop some black powder, not all of it, you ned to save at least 1 black powder initiative in case a team member goes down.

D/D how to play this is as you guessed, hold a node till back up arrives, even if you get pushed of, which most players dont know it, if your able to push them of the nde for at least 4 seconds the count down will go neutral meaning nobody will get any points, hold the point till your team arrives bac, this will be by playing smart, not spamming all of your initiativ in 1 go, hit Lotus Strike, push him, of, he pushes you of as long as its neutral you are winning, know that. Thief wasn’t built to hold a node, then its all left to how your team is playing/organized.

Also> support can be seen as lets say, the quicker you take down your eemy, how efficient you are with the glass cannon build may win the battle in the end. <thts all for SPvP.

For dungeons, imo I guess condition/glass canon both really work, depends on the dungeon I’d say, although glass canon is the best..

Lymain.6723:

In my experience, it can be difficult/annoying to rely on heal procs from Withdraw because the heal (and thus the proc) triggers at the end of the roll. I quickly replaced my Centaur runes after one night of WvW for that reason.

The main issue with Venomous Aura is the very short range. It can be worth it for the immobilize/chill in small group WvW (or sPvP), but I don’t feel the benefit is even close to being worth the cost for PvE. Note that the lifesteal does not appear to share, which is a shame.

I’m looking at either Withdraw or the signet for my healing skill and originally opted for Withdraw because of the condition cleansing. Between the two skills, which one is generally considered more useful? I’m picking it for the 15s cooldown anyway, so either way I’m just looking for the more useful option.

If the dodge component is problematic then I’ll probably want the signet, right? I’m not worried about Hide in Shadows (even though it’s the more powerful single-shot heal) because I feel I’ll have enough passive healing/regen to make it matter less.

In terms of Leeching Venoms not working with Venomous Aura, that is either a new change/silent nerf, or it’s a misunderstanding. It’s on the wiki as working, so I’ll grab a friend and test it out with them in the Mists when I get a chance. I’ll be sure to report back here for you when I do so.

I know that Venomous Aura’s radius is pretty terrible, but it’s still something that I’d like to give a chance.

Kerithlan.1659:

Regarding smoke fields and switching to the shortbow: I’m not worried about that. Right now on my guardian I sometimes play a greatsword/hammer set specifically for the Banish > Leap of Faith combo (knockback -> leap, fun but not really special or competitive). It’s really not very difficult -- you can begin using skills before the bar has completely finished its skill-switch animation. Pressing 5 ` 2 in rapid succession should be non-issue, especially when I have a full four seconds to make use of the combo field.

I played for a good 5-6 hours today in PvE and tried this combo out in multiple situations/scenarios. It worked incredibly well against things charging at me in melee and at range it was viable but less important. I did some of the pack bull escort quests and found that with proper initiative management I was able to maintain stealth on myself and the bull about 50% of the time, which is roughly what I was hoping for.

Having allies with blast finishers makes it obviously much easier to pull off, but solo play is still rewarded by this.

LiuliRenai.3928:

When it comes to condition duration vs damage I try to find the middle ground that will offer the most damage over time. I’m using 3 krait runes, 3 afflicted runes, and 2 agony sigils (yes they stack, tested in mists) for a 50% duration. This makes my pistol bleeds last 6 secs, my death blossom bleeds last 15 secs, while still ticking for 110 damage. On a build with 20 points in deadly arts I’d use +30% condition duration food to push the +% duration to +100% (since pistol bleed ticks only increase every +25% of condition duration).

It’s less of a worry with the duration of weakness and poison, as even with +50% duration they should last long enough to keep bosses perma-weaknessed and perma-poisoned. Asuming you spread the venoms to a couple more people.

Hey thanks, I’ll give something like this a go. Regarding the sigils and since I’m looking primarily at D/P and Shortbow (which shouldn’t be causing much if any bleeding), would you recommend Debility, Paralyzation or Venom more, or something like Hydromancy or Leeching?

I’ll play around with rune sets and see what I can come up with to boost poison or healing instead of bleeding.

Kerithlan.1659:

Hey thanks, I’ll give something like this a go. Regarding the sigils and since I’m looking primarily at D/P and Shortbow (which shouldn’t be causing much if any bleeding), would you recommend Debility, Paralyzation or Venom more, or something like Hydromancy or Leeching?

I’ll play around with rune sets and see what I can come up with to boost poison or healing instead of bleeding.

If you’re using D/P and Shortbow I take it you went for direct damage rather than condition. In this case I wouldn’t necessarily invest in specific condition +duration like poison since you can already get a lot of it from traits and food and your most important debuff is the weakness rather (which I believe there is still no sigil to buff in duration).

I’d go with sigil of superior fire or superior blood if you have 30% crit chance or more. If not, on swap or power stacking sigils.

I doubt that my unbuffed crit chance % will be above 25%.