Guild Wars 2

I like to think I was proficient at using S/D thief in WvW roaming before. Now I’m noticing I kind of suck. It takes a thousand perfectly timed butt-pokes to kill most classes, and if I mess up they can usually down me with one skill. Or a couple auto attacks. I swapped out all my armor for Valkyrie pieces since I wasn’t doing much damage anyways, but I still feel like a chew toy. Besides L2P, what can I do to get better?

Wait until HoT and take the Daredevil line.
Or find another class or game.

I don’t really want to buy HoT right now. I tried necro and it was actually alright, but it doesn’t really afford the same feeling as thief.

I’m afraid that is the way the devs are pushing the thief. Instead of straight up nerfing our abilities they just made everyone more on par with burst. However we did not get the defensive creep in return.

My advice to you would be, play the way you like. I’m sticking with the thief myself. But am sometimes swapping to our ‘cheese mode’ p/d condi when I’m just meeting other cheese builds all the time.

I know others are simply playing other classes every now and then to not get burned out. And there is a few special snowflakes that still are and will always be pure glass S/D or D/D.

As long as its fun it’s all good! :P

Warkind.6745:

I don’t really want to buy HoT right now. I tried necro and it was actually alright, but it doesn’t really afford the same feeling as thief.

There is no other advise I can give you, sorry.
S/D will become better if you take the Daredevil line – other than that there’s nothing you can do right now.

I liked S/D, now I play P/P.
I like to be special and play unusual builds that work if I chose the fights (which I can, as I am a Thief).
But I just couldn’t get S/D to really work, the kiting ability + pure dmg output (also the burst) of P/P, as well as it being a really rare weapon set, still make me happy though.

But, play whatever is fun for you. S/D is in a pretty bad spot, gonna get better with HoT but only if you stick to it. Chosing a build and continueing to play it is what makes you good.

S/d is pretty tricky to play. The only way I can reliably use #3 to evade high burst/telegraph skills such as evis, most hammer attacks. Even things like ele dagger fire #3 is to disable auto attack as that takes priority over most of the weapon skills while in melee range

The aa chain can be very weird and the last attack some times “lags” and I sometimes wounder if there is some kind of bug with it. The dmg is amazing though, with a few might stacks I and wvw stacks I was aa critting enemy glass people for nearly 4k slice and 6k crippling strike.

Been playing d/p a lot but recently started to play acro s/d again and I think despite the clunky aa and hard to use #3 with out spamming it, I still think this set more fun then any other weapon sets

I’ve been playing acro/SA/trickery with S/D recently, on the basis that I’d probably have to drop DA for DD when HoT hits and I only ran 2 points in it for mug before the trait patch anyway. It seems to work, although I am bitter about having to take 2 defensive lines compared to everyone else’s one.

I also made a trapper condi build for when people cheese me, and I have engi/ranger alts that I enjoy. Just gotta stick it out for the time being unfortunately.

Warkind.6745:

I don’t really want to buy HoT right now. I tried necro and it was actually alright, but it doesn’t really afford the same feeling as thief.

One of the reasons I like Necro as my 2nd fav is cuz it does feel like Thief. Just run around berserk with dagger/warhorn and abuse perma death shroud as if it was stealth and pew pew range backstab things for loadsadamage. You’ll feel like a loud Thief.

Doggie.3184:

Warkind.6745:

I don’t really want to buy HoT right now. I tried necro and it was actually alright, but it doesn’t really afford the same feeling as thief.

One of the reasons I like Necro as my 2nd fav is cuz it does feel like Thief. Just run around berserk with dagger/warhorn and abuse perma death shroud as if it was stealth and pew pew range backstab things for loadsadamage. You’ll feel like a loud Thief.

A loud, slow thief with lots of HP. So…not a thief.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhSnYhTw3JQ/EHwEkPNxZJ9CnknoTQA2NA-TVCEABEcCASU9ntUCykyvj2fAhHAQb6DA4QA8wRAIAACwNbz28mBO6zduzduz5m38m38m3sUAlL1C-w

Give that a shot for S/D roaming. It sacrifices some boon rip and damage for initiative sustain and condi removal. Its pretty effective against condi / bunker cheese builds you see when roaming, you just need to watch out for backstab thieves as they can still 100-0 if they catch you off guard.

So I came to the conclusion that the best way to play S/D currently is to replicate the old 26006 build. DA/CS/Tr makes you actually deal a great amount of damage with just the autos. I’d recommend giving it a try, just make sure you have at least 15k health.
For S/D, basically giving up one of the damage lines for the (current) defensive line is a poor tradeoff because neither synergize well enough with the set.

Zodryn.4216:

Doggie.3184:

Warkind.6745:

I don’t really want to buy HoT right now. I tried necro and it was actually alright, but it doesn’t really afford the same feeling as thief.

One of the reasons I like Necro as my 2nd fav is cuz it does feel like Thief. Just run around berserk with dagger/warhorn and abuse perma death shroud as if it was stealth and pew pew range backstab things for loadsadamage. You’ll feel like a loud Thief.

A loud, slow thief with lots of HP. So…not a thief.

Well mines a Thief so I’m just that awesome. He steals souls, backstabs and isn’t slow actually. Just doesn’t have a shortbow.

Warkind.6745:

I swapped out all my armor for Valkyrie pieces since* I wasn’t doing much damage* anyways…

That’s the source of your problem — not doing much damage. So what are you doing? Slowly dying?

Without info on your build nor your playstyle, how do you expect us to help?

Just reroll. If you think it is bad now, wait untill HoT when every class but thief will be on steroids.

I carry p/p in my inv for quick equipping when I need to roll through a necro, warrior, and guard. S/D still works on rangers, other thieves, mesmers (assuming you dodge the opening burst). Engis can be taken with w.e weapon set you prefer. Gotta remain versatile, since some classes thrive on you getting close to them and others are hindered by it.

Bengay is good for pain.

Reroll. What you’re experiencing is the results of the june 23 specialization patch that had just stay .. the same maybe a bit weaker, and all other classes got buffed out right.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Warkind.6745:

I swapped out all my armor for Valkyrie pieces since* I wasn’t doing much damage* anyways…

That’s the source of your problem — not doing much damage. So what are you doing? Slowly dying?

Without info on your build nor your playstyle, how do you expect us to help?

It’s more along the lines of quickly dying. This is my build, for reference.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhCnYpTw7Jw/EHwElPNOj2oXYJRiqTgAIDA-TVDEABvpDYRVPcSJBBnAgEVDZLlgMpUzgHAQTKDaTbQO7PAwRA4hDBApAEUqF-w

I like how the majority answer to problems like this is “reroll”. Nothing is being done about said issues, not even a protest by “rerolling”.

My answer: I’m simply not going to pay for it. I’m not buying HoT until I see real improvement in Thief. If the entire thief community had this discipline, real change would happen…

I’ve started to run S/D purely because it’s a side of Thief i’ve never explored and I love it… And I also hate it.

Because you don’t have access to consistent blinds and easymode stealth it’s like playing the game on hard difficulty. Thief dies in like, 3 crits from a Warrior and if any one of those hits land then you have to go full defence and recover or face more stupid 9k Rush Crits – I’m using Warrior for example, it’s like this with most builds/professions.

You can’t dodge roll everything – No one is perfect, so once or twice you’re going to get hit… But S/D requires you to be more perfect than every melee thief weaponset.

S/D is all about using distance, evasion and CnD stealth for your defences, in that order.

I’ve found creating distance with 2-Return to dodge out of the big telegraphed skills is a life saver. I’ve seen a lot of people go absolutely ham on thin air, to only find me stood 900 range away with my shortbow out ready to arrow them to death.

So if anything, try to include distance and shortbow into your rotations.

I like to use the 2-Return and shortbow them around a bit – Keep my range up. This helps with important cooldowns like steal or my heal to recharge.

I like to run Infiltrators Signet over Agility because then it allows me to be very cheeky with my distance and gap closers. Rangers Point Blank Shot is made redundant because I’m back in their faces straight away.

But right now every class hits as hard as Thief used to do but we didn’t get any defences to balance it out. If you can’t teleport away, dodge it or blind them, then you’re gonna get 2 or 3 shot.

Wait until HoT drops and swap either DA or Acro for DD, take the Dash dodge roll, Agility signet and you win at life because you’re now untouchable. Dash does what Infiltrators Return does on a dodge roll too. Got melee problems? Dash, Dash, Dash away and begin the shortbow antics!

However, I’ve found the best way to learn new tricks is to watch montages on youtube of really good Thieves using whatever build you’d like to try. Now, find a good video and watch what they do. Rewind it several times, see how they reacted and remember it for next time. This allowed me to pick up S/D a lot quicker than if I’d not done so in the first place.

I’m by absolutely no means a S/D pro but with enough practice I’ll get there eventually. 1 Week, 1 month, or maybe even 1 year, getting better takes time but if you have the will and drive to improve then there’s no stopping you.

meepeY.2867:

I like to run Infiltrators Signet over Agility because then it allows me to be very cheeky with my distance and gap closers. Rangers Point Blank Shot is made redundant because I’m back in their faces straight away.

Why not both?

Maugetarr.6823:

meepeY.2867:

I like to run Infiltrators Signet over Agility because then it allows me to be very cheeky with my distance and gap closers. Rangers Point Blank Shot is made redundant because I’m back in their faces straight away.

Why not both?

Shadow Refuge and Shadowstep (a must take) are both really good.

Shadow Refuge mainly in sPvp so you can revive downed friends easier – It gives you party support. In WvW it’s also very strong for running away or resetting an unfavorable fight. It’s very strong against D/P Thieves who also use it because then you’re back on an even playing field. I personally value it higher than Signet of Agility.

I’ve been torn on signet of agility for a while. I like the endurance refill, but I mostly take it for the condition cleanse. I’m not sure the single cleanse is very useful anymore, though.

meepeY.2867:

Maugetarr.6823:

meepeY.2867:

I like to run Infiltrators Signet over Agility because then it allows me to be very cheeky with my distance and gap closers. Rangers Point Blank Shot is made redundant because I’m back in their faces straight away.

Why not both?

Shadow Refuge and Shadowstep (a must take) are both really good.

Shadow Refuge mainly in sPvp so you can revive downed friends easier – It gives you party support. In WvW it’s also very strong for running away or resetting an unfavorable fight. It’s very strong against D/P Thieves who also use it because then you’re back on an even playing field. I personally value it higher than Signet of Agility.

Fair enough. I tend to forego SR due to all the knockbacks in PvP. I’ve had both SoA and IS save me at times depending on who I’m fighting so I just take both of those now instead, especially when combined with Signets of Power. Taking IS also great because it allows me to blow Shadow Return for the condi removal and still have a stunbreak.

If you roam, try using RFI and Trickster, it might help with your problem with low init, it’s also a condi cleanse vs those nasty condi builds and .
Acro is fine in terms of mobility at least and swiftness uptime with Pack Runes, I don’t think in terms of survivability it’s as good as it used to be, nevermind DPS wise, but otherwise D/P is the best utility set in pvp/wvw.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

try using RFI and Trickery, it might help with your problem with low init.

I’m using those right now and I’ve found I just don’t use Shadowstep as much if not at all. Tricked out RFI usually lets me peel out of a zerg and a quick Shortbow 5 to put some distance after. I keep coming back to RFI or Blinding Powder as go to Utilities with the other two slots being whatever.

The thief pretty much sucks right now in overall effectiveness. It is brittle and the damage output is similar to other classes that have far more survival. It has a niche culling the weak (poor players, bad builds and wounded players) but any decently played build in another class will pretty much park a higher skilled thief.