Guild Wars 2

Title says it all. Compared to the other professions I feel that thief signets are either situational or weak. I think that’s why they aren’t really used much. Most of the actives are not worth using in some situations but are worth the slot when traited with Signet Use and Signets of Power. My beef is that it turns signets from a utility to might access and then I look as other professions and while their signet traits aren’t that good their signets are.

Long story short, our signets are poorly designed. Here are my brief comments about them and my suggestions to possibly fix them.

Assassin’s Signet: Decent Power boost. Active is better if specced for damage which isn’t always the case. In low power builds, the passive provide more of a benefit than the active. 180 points can make a difference in damage capabilities as well as a 15% bonus, however you lose the bonus power upon using the signet and you only have 5 attacks before that 15% is gone.

> I propose that the signet active grants 5 Might and Fury for 20s instead of the 15% bonus. Not everyone wants to wear zerker.

Infiltrator’s Signet: Passive is nice but .1/sec initiative is not that great unless coupled with the Quick Recovery trait. Gap closers are always nice so I think IS active is fine.

> I reccommend that the passive instead grants the 25% speed buff instead of SoS. I don’t like using this unless I need gap closers. Don’t worry I have a change for that one as well.

Signet of Agility: I would say this is in a good place but it could be better. The passive increases crit rate by 7% which is awesome. The Active however is, although great for support, weak enough to sober my optimism towards it. Cleanses 1 condition and refills endurance to everyone nearby. Traiting makes this bearable though.

> In addition to curing 1 condition, I suggest that it also cures cripple, chilled and immobilize. 1 Condition removed isnt that great.

Signet of Malice: Before the 33% passive buff, the entire thing was a little iffy in pve and useless everywhere else. Traited, this can be better than Roll for Initiative but then again, not everyone is going to put 30 in trickery and 20 in Critical Strikes to get this benefit. The passive is fine.

> I have a few suggestions for the active. Either:
1.) Regenerate Health overtime instead. Completely transfers damaging conditions to nearby enemies. Instant cast.
2.) Same heal + Retaliation 10s. Instant cast.
3.) Stronger heal + Copy bleeding, confusion, burning, torment and poison on you to nearby enemies. Instant cast.
4.) Same heal + Steal life from surrounding enemies. No AoE limit. Instant cast.

Active just seems not so great unless traited.

Signet of Shadows: Out of all the signets I believe that this might be the weakest. The run speed boost doesn’t make much sense in my opinion and the 1 blind can be replaced with Cloaked in Shadow and Pistol offhand. If it weren’t for the run speed this utility would not compare to the others.

> Instead of it like it is— Passive: Cleanse 1 condition every 10 seconds. Active: Create a storm of shadows around you. Range: 600. 25% chance enemies become blinded every second for 10 seconds.

Of course there are going to be a few gripes with some of my ideas so I am just going to list a few comparisons between our signets and other signets.

Signet of Domination CC
Plague Signet Condition Transfer
Signet of Spite I wish I could do all that in one second.
Signet of Earth Lolmobilize
Bane Signet CC
Signet of Judgment 10% damage reduction + “You get retaliation! And YOU get retaliation! Everyone gets retaliation!”
Signet of Stamina Lol what conditions?
Signet of Might lol what blocks?

VERSES

This

…. and we are one of the 3 classes without -1 condi/10 seconds or regeneration signets. We don’t need regen because of traits but our condition removal is horrid unless we spec and gear for it.

Anyways there you have it.

Signet of Malice: Heals for 33% of critical damage.

This would open up more builds that rely less on stealth to stay alive for some builds I think.

Signet of Malice – Instant cast won’t happen – they have passive effects, and in compliment, have long casting times. The active on all of the signets is unattractive, they’re taken for the passives. That being said, Signet of Malice could use a buff into relevancy, as it’s currently Meh (which is partly the fault of P/P being garbage, and S/P being slightly UP and boring).

Signet of shadows – 10s of RNG blind PBAOE sounds silly, and a little op, especially on a 30s(24s traited) CD. A single blind on activation is a bit weak, but it has niche uses – for example, it wont interrupt a stomp, which is a guaranteed stomp on a necro/warrior/engineer, and with good timing can guarantee a stomp on a guardian/ranger

Signet of Agility – the endurance refill on active can be a lifesaver, since as a thief dodging is on of our primary damage mitigation tactics – it’s made more powerful by points in acrobatics, OR points in Crit strikes. I think you’re undervaluing it. The condition cleanse is Meh, but only considering the current meta – back when conditions had to be applied with thought, Sig of agility cleansing a Poison before you heal, or a big stack of bleeds could be a lifesaver.

Inf Sig – 25% speed boost passive with a gap closing stunbreaker active feels like a bit much, but that’s just more of a personal feeling than an argument I can back up coherently. It just feels like with Steal, Shadowshot, and Inf Strike already on the table, this would make thieves unparalleled at chasing.

I can’t figure out anything else that is worth the passive benefits of the signets. Signet of Power raise my strength almost 10%, that is a huge damage bonus. If it was a trait, it would be a must have trait. Signet of Agility raise my crit rate almost 10%, once again if it was trait that strong it would pretty much be required. 25% movement bonus in Signet of Shadows is also hard to get away from for WvW or running around in PvE, depending on your build. 25% always on, never think about, passive speed boost is pretty useful.

I don’t generally use the active aspect of any of these, except I recently started using the 5 stacks of might on signet use trait and I use signet of power with that, otherwise use of signet of power is just a way of reducing your damage output since it is barely better than the passive boost (you loose passive boost when you activate it, so it gives you -~10% str, +15% damage, so it is like a 5% damage boost for kittens then 30 sec cooldown or whatever, much more damage in most situations by not using it).

God no, don’t change my Signet of Malice. You get sooooooooooooo fricken tanky using it in Zergs/big group play in WvW. It is also incredibly good when dueling 1v1 with death blossom.

God when coupled with the remove a condi when in stealth your new Signet of Shadows would make thieves SOOO OP.

The active effect of signet of malice doesn’t matter. If you activate it you are in trouble anyway.

Don’t underestimate the blind on signet of shadows. It is one of the best blinding skills we have since it affects multiple targets, at range, instantly, and can be activated even when knocked down. On its own it’s not great, but it’s on a signet.

Practically all of these suggestions would be OP, espcially the change to Assassin’s Signet; anyone up for traited perma-fury and might stacks to rival HGH?

Are you kidding?
The Thief signets are actually the best in the game for several reasons.

1. Every signet is on a 30s cooldown.
2. Signet boosting traits are on the Critical Strike traitline, which is the must go traitline for most thieves.
3. Their effects are amazing, both passive and active.
4. Signet-related traits on thief are the best in class.

Thief is the only profession with viable signets, tbh.
I dare you to find any other signet you’ve listed used in any gamemode.

Your suggestions, also, are borderline OP.

sorrow.2364:

Are you kidding?
The Thief signets are actually the best in the game for several reasons.

1. Every signet is on a 30s cooldown.
2. Signet boosting traits are on the Critical Strike traitline, which is the must go traitline for most thieves.
3. Their effects are amazing, both passive and active.
4. Signet-related traits on thief are the best in class.

Thief is the only profession with viable signets, tbh.
I dare you to find any other signet you’ve listed used in any gamemode.

Your suggestions, also, are borderline OP.

Assassins Sig is kitten CD, and could use an update (not necessarily a buff). As people pointed out when Signets went from 90 stat points to 180, Assassins active is now a very, very minor boost compared to the passive, followed by 45s(36s traited) seconds of lost power. Assassins sig doesn’t need to be made more powerful persay, but the active needs to be reconfigured a bit to be worth using more generally.

evilapprentice.6379:

Assassins Sig is kitten CD, and could use an update (not necessarily a buff). As people pointed out when Signets went from 90 stat points to 180, Assassins active is now a very, very minor boost compared to the passive, followed by 45s(36s traited) seconds of lost power. Assassins sig doesn’t need to be made more powerful persay, but the active needs to be reconfigured a bit to be worth using more generally.

Well, to be honest, Assassin Signet active isn’t a minor boost over the passive.
The percentage damage increase means that the damage boost is significantly higher on high damaging skills, which thief has quite a few.

Also, when traited with critical strikes, the power loss is completely cancelled by the might stacks gained.

It is a burst-friendly signet, it is quite obvious. Nobody wants to get back to the 15k backstab age.

sorrow.2364:

evilapprentice.6379:

Assassins Sig is kitten CD, and could use an update (not necessarily a buff). As people pointed out when Signets went from 90 stat points to 180, Assassins active is now a very, very minor boost compared to the passive, followed by 45s(36s traited) seconds of lost power. Assassins sig doesn’t need to be made more powerful persay, but the active needs to be reconfigured a bit to be worth using more generally.

Well, to be honest, Assassin Signet active isn’t a minor boost over the passive.
The percentage damage increase means that the damage boost is significantly higher on high damaging skills, which thief has quite a few.

Also, when traited with critical strikes, the power loss is completely cancelled by the might stacks gained.

It is a burst-friendly signet, it is quite obvious. Nobody wants to get back to the 15k backstab age.

Traits don’t come into play – if the active doesn’t give me a good reason to use it, on its own, it’s poorly designed. Like I said, it doesn’t need a buff, it just needs to be reconfigured a little bit.

Any ability that does a high amount of damage probably has a favorable multiplier based on your power, which you lost 180 of on signet activation. Obviously the amount of additional power you’re running compared to base comes into play, but he fact remains that activating the signet provides a relatively minor boost to most specs.

sorrow.2364:

Are you kidding?
The Thief signets are actually the best in the game for several reasons.

1. Every signet is on a 30s cooldown.
2. Signet boosting traits are on the Critical Strike traitline, which is the must go traitline for most thieves.
3. Their effects are amazing, both passive and active.
4. Signet-related traits on thief are the best in class.

Thief is the only profession with viable signets, tbh.
I dare you to find any other signet you’ve listed used in any gamemode.

Your suggestions, also, are borderline OP.

I think you must be the one kidding.

Our signet related traits are what would make anyone even consider using them. Most of them lack utility or practicality in the active department because they can be replaced with other things (ie. Cloaked in Shadow vs SoS for blinds). Seriously, try them with and without traits and you’ll see a big difference.

The only ones that I would use regardless if I am traited or not are SoA and IS. I would use Infiltrator’s Signet mainly for the stun break. However, Haste feels like a better stun break than IS(especially with s/x) because that signet + Infiltrator’s strike makes up for it and then some.

Signet of Agility is probably one of the best thieves got because of the AoE endurance regen. The condition cleanse is the underwhelming part however. Even if it didn’t have a condition cleanse, I would still use it for extra dodging because that’s really it’s only redeeming quality imo.

Seriously though, look at the rest of them and tell me you cannot do better?

Inf and agility are pretty good, i dunno how anybody can complain about them.
Shadow is crap, it’s pretty much just worth using while out of combat.
Malice is ok but if you compare it one second to the warrior auto heal it indeed feels bad. Personally i think it’s in a decent spot, it can lead to massive healing spikes.
Assassin signet active should be reworked, doesn’t mean it’s bad, having to pick up a trait for it even if it’s in the almost mandatory thief trait line, is badly designed imo.

All in all i find it hard to say they have the worst signets or most are unworthy of being picked but some sure could use some work.

Zacchary.6183:

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Infiltrator’s Signet: Passive is nice but .1/sec initiative is not that great unless coupled with the Quick Recovery trait. Gap closers are always nice so I think IS active is fine.

> I reccommend that the passive instead grants the 25% speed buff instead of SoS. I don’t like using this unless I need gap closers. Don’t worry I have a change for that one as well.

Anyways there you have it.

i feel this change makes a lot of sense, you ether have your 25% move speed or you can sacrifice it to break stun and gap close.

this all makes the decision to activate the signet at the right time all the more important

All I’m going to say is this: Leave Signet of Shadows out of this madness. Nothing’s wrong with that signet.

Thank you.

Zacchary.6183:

Assassin’s Signet: Decent Power boost. Active is better if specced for damage which isn’t always the case. In low power builds, the passive provide more of a benefit than the active. 180 points can make a difference in damage capabilities as well as a 15% bonus. However, you lose the bonus power upon using the signet and you only have 5 attacks before that 15% is gone. Assassin’s signet is best used on zerker builds.

> I propose that the signet active grants 5 Might and Fury for 20s instead of the 15% bonus. Not everyone wants to wear zerker.

You want to ruin my 30k Backstabs don’t you?
Let this signet like it is

Zacchary.6183:

sorrow.2364:

Are you kidding?
The Thief signets are actually the best in the game for several reasons.

1. Every signet is on a 30s cooldown.
2. Signet boosting traits are on the Critical Strike traitline, which is the must go traitline for most thieves.
3. Their effects are amazing, both passive and active.
4. Signet-related traits on thief are the best in class.

Thief is the only profession with viable signets, tbh.
I dare you to find any other signet you’ve listed used in any gamemode.

Your suggestions, also, are borderline OP.

I think you must be the one kidding.

Our signet related traits are what would make anyone even consider using them. Most of them lack utility or practicality in the active department because they can be replaced with other things (ie. Cloaked in Shadow vs SoS for blinds). Seriously, try them with and without traits and you’ll see a big difference.

The only ones that I would use regardless if I am traited or not are SoA and IS. I would use Infiltrator’s Signet mainly for the stun break. However, Haste feels like a better stun break than IS(especially with s/x) because that signet + Infiltrator’s strike makes up for it and then some.

Signet of Agility is probably one of the best thieves got because of the AoE endurance regen. The condition cleanse is the underwhelming part however. Even if it didn’t have a condition cleanse, I would still use it for extra dodging because that’s really it’s only redeeming quality imo.

Seriously though, look at the rest of them and tell me you cannot do better?

Signet of Malice is fine. It is on the line between being OP and being fine. Its passive effect is pretty amazing, especially when combined with sword. A single pistol whip can heal you for pretty high amount of health in any gamemode and it is quite popular among more survivability-oriented thief. I see no reason to buff its active effect making it instant cast or giving it some crazy OP condition transfer on 15s cooldown, or even 12s. Considering how fast it recharges and that it is an healing skill (which means that it triggers all of those on-healing effects), the active is fine as it is.

Signet of Shadow blind is useful. It can’t be compared with Cloaked in Shadow simply because it isn’t instant cast (even Blinding Powder will break your stomp). The AoE blind of SoS helps you to save your kitten when stunlocked by a warrior or prevent a stomp-breaker on your enemy. The passive movement increase, also, is pretty kitten

assin Signet, has many people have pointed out, is extremely useful in high power/burst builds and it is the only environment it really has an use. There is no need to make a clearly power-oriented signet good for every build. Your proposal, also, is crazy OP.

Take another look at the other classes signets, you listed for comparison. Most of them are on a hellish long cooldown and/or require you to face your opponent.

Thief signets are mostly instant cast, on short cooldown and don’t require any positioning. You can just pop them whenever you need them.

SoM:
Signet of Malice is stronger than Healing Signet in its own way. Healing Signet gives more heal on the passive, yes. But Signet of malice is the heal with the shortest cooldown in the game, excluding Mantra of Recovery, which got its own quirks. Short cooldown equals lots of tricks, you can pull with traits and runes, while it also means, you can pop the heal during a short break(stealthed, hiding behind an obstacle, whatever) and re-engage again with SoM’s passive almost ready again. Or just pop the heal and slaughter them with the might stacks and extra initiative, for that matter.
Basically, it’s on a short cooldown and got an okay-ish passive, which doesn’t outshine the active, as is the case with the warriors signet, where the passive is far more potent than the active.
Plus it got way better synergy with traits than Healing Signet:
+5 stack might(10 sec)
+2 initiative, 20% shorter cd
vigor on cast(8 sec)
+4 initiative(lol who uses this trait?)

SoS:
It’s a speed boost, alright. Compared to other speed boost signet’s active, it’s on the good side. Signet of Air is strictly worse, Signet of the Hunt is a huge boost to a single hit on a class with hardly any heavy hitters and Signet of the Locust is on a hellish long cd, while serving as a worse “oh-crap”-button than SoS.

IS:
It’s a friggin stun break on a short cooldown, which can also be used as a substitute steal. The passive is amazing. One initiative can mean a LOT. It can be the difference between life and death. And that all, while your stun breaker lies in wait.
Interestingly, when traited into signets, you lose some 0.4 initiative regeneration overall whenever you pop it. +2 initiative, 24 sec of no +0.1/sec initiative. Basically, traited, you will have initiative regeneration from that slot either way, while having a stun breaker on 24 sec cd. How can this be bad?

AS:
Personally, I don’t use it. It’s some sort of bursty thingie, but I typically don’t trait signets. which makes it not worth it. Traited, however, it’s HUGE.
Now you say, it’s worthless, if it’s only good when traited into? It’s not. It’s a bursty skill. If you want a bursty build, you need to specialize either way. Simple as that. It’s the same for every class: Specialized skills require specialized builds and specialized builds require specialized skills. This doesn’t make the skills bad.

SoA:
Endurance for the whole party at instant speed?
On such a ridiculously short cooldown?
Removes a condition as a bonus?
Gives ~ +10% crit chance when not used?
On a class, which typically has lots of crit damage and neat on-crit effects?
I’d hit it.

naphack.9346:

SoS:
It’s a speed boost, alright. Compared to other speed boost signet’s active, it’s on the good side. Signet of Air is strictly worse, Signet of the Hunt is a huge boost to a single hit on a class with hardly any heavy hitters and Signet of the Locust is on a hellish long cd, while serving as a worse “oh-crap”-button than SoS.

Signet of air is better in every aspect.

Puru.4217:

naphack.9346:

SoS:
It’s a speed boost, alright. Compared to other speed boost signet’s active, it’s on the good side. Signet of Air is strictly worse, Signet of the Hunt is a huge boost to a single hit on a class with hardly any heavy hitters and Signet of the Locust is on a hellish long cd, while serving as a worse “oh-crap”-button than SoS.

Signet of air is better in every aspect.

And shadow step is a double stunbreaker that drops 3 conditions on the return, compared to lightning flash which doesn’t break stuns and is only a single teleport with no condition cleanse- for 10s longer CD. Shadow Step is infinitely better. You can’t make comparisons on single abilities without considering all the options as a whole.

I was just poiting out his mistake, i don’t really care if sos is worse anyway since both are unworthy of being picked outside of traveling (that includes all the speed boost signet). Unlike those two teleports which are godly skills.

Well, I forgot about that buff where Air Signet became a stun breaker.
Still, the blind is better applied in an area around the caster than in an area around a target. Area around target may require you to switch targets, may fail due to line of sight issues or fail otherwise. Area around yourself will always do what it’s supposed to do. It’s easy to land and never requires target shuffling.

naphack.9346:

Well, I forgot about that buff where Air Signet became a stun breaker.
Still, the blind is better applied in an area around the caster than in an area around a target. Area around target may require you to switch targets, may fail due to line of sight issues or fail otherwise. Area around yourself will always do whakittens supposed to do. It’s easy to land and never requires target shuffling.

That’s false.
Blind is better in an area around the target (+ the target itself), since it allows more versatility.

I thought this when I first started playing thief.

I don’t now. Signets can be traited to be on a very short cooldown (24 seconds for most).

Agility removes a condition and refills endurance which is a great active. Two dodges can be a life saver.

Infiltrator’s is a stunbreak + awesome gap closer on a 24-30 cooldown as well as decent passive initiative feed.

Assassin’s signet isn’t very creative but it gets the job done if you want burst.

Signet of shadows admittedly has a bad active, but passive is nice. Considering how mobile thief can be without it, it’s probably the weakest one.

naphack.9346:

Take another look at the other classes signets, you listed for comparison. Most of them are on a hellish long cooldown and/or require you to face your opponent.

Thief signets are mostly instant cast, on short cooldown and don’t require any positioning. You can just pop them whenever you need them.

SoM:
Signet of Malice is stronger than Healing Signet in its own way. Healing Signet gives more heal on the passive, yes. But Signet of malice is the heal with the shortest cooldown in the game, excluding Mantra of Recovery, which got its own quirks. Short cooldown equals lots of tricks, you can pull with traits and runes, while it also means, you can pop the heal during a short break(stealthed, hiding behind an obstacle, whatever) and re-engage again with SoM’s passive almost ready again. Or just pop the heal and slaughter them with the might stacks and extra initiative, for that matter.
Basically, it’s on a short cooldown and got an okay-ish passive, which doesn’t outshine the active, as is the case with the warriors signet, where the passive is far more potent than the active.
Plus it got way better synergy with traits than Healing Signet:
+5 stack might(10 sec)
+2 initiative, 20% shorter cd
vigor on cast(8 sec)
+4 initiative(lol who uses this trait?)

SoS:
It’s a speed boost, alright. Compared to other speed boost signet’s active, it’s on the good side. Signet of Air is strictly worse, Signet of the Hunt is a huge boost to a single hit on a class with hardly any heavy hitters and Signet of the Locust is on a hellish long cd, while serving as a worse “oh-crap”-button than SoS.

IS:
It’s a friggin stun break on a short cooldown, which can also be used as a substitute steal. The passive is amazing. One initiative can mean a LOT. It can be the difference between life and death. And that all, while your stun breaker lies in wait.
Interestingly, when traited into signets, you lose some 0.4 initiative regeneration overall whenever you pop it. +2 initiative, 24 sec of no +0.1/sec initiative. Basically, traited, you will have initiative regeneration from that slot either way, while having a stun breaker on 24 sec cd. How can this be bad?

AS:
Personally, I don’t use it. It’s some sort of bursty thingie, but I typically don’t trait signets. which makes it not worth it. Traited, however, it’s HUGE.
Now you say, it’s worthless, if it’s only good when traited into? It’s not. It’s a bursty skill. If you want a bursty build, you need to specialize either way. Simple as that. It’s the same for every class: Specialized skills require specialized builds and specialized builds require specialized skills. This doesn’t make the skills bad.

SoA:
Endurance for the whole party at instant speed?
On such a ridiculously short cooldown?
Removes a condition as a bonus?
Gives ~ +10% crit chance when not used?
On a class, which typically has lots of crit damage and neat on-crit effects?
I’d hit it.

This.

I run two signets with my S/P build in PvP and WvW (Signet of Agility and Infiltrator’s Signet) and I just love them! The extra evades, condition removal, shadowstep, stun break, initiative, might, heal and critical chance is just amazing.

All the signets have their uses and all are instant cast (except for SoM) with low cool downs that boost and/or help the player in some way.

They work perfectly fine, so please leave them alone