Guild Wars 2

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Yeah, it’s was all about that 1 trait that made s/d or even acrobatics worth taking . Such a shame that they went too far on it.

Sigh. What has really hurt you then as d/d? Because shadows embraces has effected all of us. Is it that you can not blind people on stealth anymore? S/d acro users never had that option anyway. Is it Shadows rejuvenation? Because I can’t understand why it’s become so bad now. I have tried it a few times after this patch but didn’t notice all that much.

Let me explain: SE hurts every thief, yes, but a D/D thief has to wade through all AOE to get his stealth – For that CiS was nice to have too, not for condis but direct damage. Also Shadow Rejuvenation to heal – we can’t have that anymore. Also: I need my target to stealth on them (unless there’s ambient creatures around), if they’re invulnerable I can’t stealth. I can’t really interrupt, at least not with my weaponset, so my playstyle is timing – but with all these nerfs I’m not alive long enough to time anything. That is why the patch sucked expecially for D/D thieves.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

Learn to read. I said across all game modes, with that I’m talking WvW and lower rank/unranked PvP.

apharma.3741:

Ok, I guess thank you for your years of service is in order. May you continue to C&D off that plethora of ambients, deer, structures and everything else that makes it viable in a game mode that is hilariously unbalanced.

Though seeing as you brought up WvW specifically I can now add P/D SA condi thief and P/D trapper thief to the list of viable builds.

You brought it up – Calling me stupid because I disagree, telling me that you meant something I also meant and then calling me stupid for talking about what you “meant” – take a break from forums, will you?

Firstly, I didn’t call you stupid, I said read.

Secondly I was making a broad argument across not just WvW but low ranked PvP and unranked PvP, as in not being specific to WvW. So yes, you made it specifically about WvW when you mentioned being gold veteran and then didn’t make any comment what so ever about low ranked/unranked PvP.

You should take a break if you’re gonna get this sensitive about things, no-one is calling you stupid because they’re saying you should read it more.

Still, please do explain to me exactly what made DD especially unviable instead of being broad strokes across all stealth builds?

apharma.3741:

Still, please do explain to me exactly what made DD especially unviable instead of being broad strokes across all stealth builds?

My turn: read (above)

Have fun.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

Still, please do explain to me exactly what made DD especially unviable instead of being broad strokes across all stealth builds?

My turn: read (above)

Have fun.

Yeah, you posted that as I was typing my response, which given how promptly after you replied you’d have seen, how mature of you. I have read it and quite frankly it just sounds like a learn to adapt issue. You get to choose more traits than before, surely you’re gaining somewhere that you are giving up by not running CiS and shadow rejuvenation.

That’s without mentioning you get a -25% damage taken while in stealth trait for free which certainly will make up some ground.

As for invulns, most of them haven’t exactly changed in meta builds from pre patch. By that I mean no-one has gained more of them than before. I guess you could argue eles running focus and geomancers defense get much higher uptime on obsidian flesh and mesmers get to use distortion as default now but I wouldn’t say it’s that out of hand.

Anyway on the subject of the post, it’s always bugged me about roll for initiative having a 60s cool down, sure it’s good for what it is but I feel it could be 40s and haste becoming 50s to allow the trickster trait to be more competitive with bountiful thief and provide options to shadowstep.

apharma.3741:

Yeah, you posted that as I was typing my response, which given how promptly after you replied you’d have seen, how mature of you. I have read it and quite frankly it just sounds like a learn to adapt issue. You get to choose more traits than before, surely you’re gaining somewhere that you are giving up by not running CiS and shadow rejuvenation.

That’s without mentioning you get a -25% damage taken while in stealth trait for free which certainly will make up some ground.

As for invulns, most of them haven’t exactly changed in meta builds from pre patch. By that I mean no-one has gained more of them than before. I guess you could argue eles running focus and geomancers defense get much higher uptime on obsidian flesh and mesmers get to use distortion as default now but I wouldn’t say it’s that out of hand.

You had half an hour to edit your message and tell me that you no longer need a reply.
I think I know how to play, how about you roll a D/D thief and then discuss this again?
And also have a look at the traits of mesmers and elementalists if you think nothing has changed with the patch.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

Yeah, you posted that as I was typing my response, which given how promptly after you replied you’d have seen, how mature of you. I have read it and quite frankly it just sounds like a learn to adapt issue. You get to choose more traits than before, surely you’re gaining somewhere that you are giving up by not running CiS and shadow rejuvenation.

That’s without mentioning you get a -25% damage taken while in stealth trait for free which certainly will make up some ground.

As for invulns, most of them haven’t exactly changed in meta builds from pre patch. By that I mean no-one has gained more of them than before. I guess you could argue eles running focus and geomancers defense get much higher uptime on obsidian flesh and mesmers get to use distortion as default now but I wouldn’t say it’s that out of hand.

You had half an hour to edit your message and tell me that you no longer need a reply.
I think I know how to play, how about you roll a D/D thief and then discuss this again?
And also have a look at the traits of mesmers and elementalists if you think nothing has changed with the patch.

It’s called having to cook for your family, not everyone can sit on a forum all day waiting to respond to threads the moment someone replies.

I know exactly what traits ele and Mesmer got, I doubt you do though as none of them give more invuln (again except geomancers freedom with obi flesh) than pre patch. In fact, mesmer actually lost one as they could previously trait to have shatters recharge at 50% which would double up on distortion.

Course you might be referring to distortion on signet use but if you’re losing to a signet heavy build you got bigger problems.

Anyway I don’t see “debating” with you going anywhere but a locked thread, so consider this a final response.

Anet needs to give a hand to thieves in some ways, it would be nice if some of the longer cool down abilities (roll for initiative, haste) got reduced and perhaps shadows embrace cleansing on entering stealth.

See the problem is not that Acrobatics got nerfed, Apharma. It’s more of the fact that everything else got buffed while Acrobatics didn’t get buffed enough. The fact that I have to give up Bountiful Theft to make my Withdraw 14s cd, don’t get 10% damage boost from Improv anymore, have to pick between vigor on heal skill or pain response, all while Mesmers, Eles, Guardians, Engies, and Rangers can CC the kitten out of me and kill me in less than 3 seconds flat. Sure, Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop are pretty nice but they don’t do much in the way of making up for hard damage and Boon Stripping Steal CC. I’ve done my absolute best to make S/D work in PVP and while I CAN defeat a lot of enemies, it’s a complete uphill battle. As someone else stated in this thread earlier, I literally have to be 2x as good as my enemy to beat them. Plus it takes FOREVER. Thief is a 1+ class now. You go in for a gank with D/P and run. That’s literally the most effective way of playing thief and it’s honestly not meant for S/D style of gameplay with Acro as it was essentially, our brawlery style set we had post specialization patch.

Rain.9213:

See the problem is not that Acrobatics got nerfed, Apharma. It’s more of the fact that everything else got buffed while Acrobatics didn’t get buffed enough. The fact that I have to give up Bountiful Theft to make my Withdraw 14s cd, don’t get 10% damage boost from Improv anymore, have to pick between vigor on heal skill or pain response, all while Mesmers, Eles, Guardians, Engies, and Rangers can CC the kitten out of me and kill me in less than 3 seconds flat. Sure, Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop are pretty nice but they don’t do much in the way of making up for hard damage and Boon Stripping Steal CC. I’ve done my absolute best to make S/D work in PVP and while I CAN defeat a lot of enemies, it’s a complete uphill battle. As someone else stated in this thread earlier, I literally have to be 2x as good as my enemy to beat them. Plus it takes FOREVER. Thief is a 1+ class now. You go in for a gank with D/P and run. That’s literally the most effective way of playing thief and it’s honestly not meant for S/D style of gameplay with Acro as it was essentially, our brawlery style set we had post specialization patch.

Not to take away from your point, but improv never gave a damage boost unless you were wielding pve type bundles (the ones that replace your main weapons). Holding a stolen item didn’t count.

I think we deserve a little more defense from the acro line and maybe a 15% damage boost on sword auto attack personally.

Hype.8032:

Rain.9213:

See the problem is not that Acrobatics got nerfed, Apharma. It’s more of the fact that everything else got buffed while Acrobatics didn’t get buffed enough. The fact that I have to give up Bountiful Theft to make my Withdraw 14s cd, don’t get 10% damage boost from Improv anymore, have to pick between vigor on heal skill or pain response, all while Mesmers, Eles, Guardians, Engies, and Rangers can CC the kitten out of me and kill me in less than 3 seconds flat. Sure, Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop are pretty nice but they don’t do much in the way of making up for hard damage and Boon Stripping Steal CC. I’ve done my absolute best to make S/D work in PVP and while I CAN defeat a lot of enemies, it’s a complete uphill battle. As someone else stated in this thread earlier, I literally have to be 2x as good as my enemy to beat them. Plus it takes FOREVER. Thief is a 1+ class now. You go in for a gank with D/P and run. That’s literally the most effective way of playing thief and it’s honestly not meant for S/D style of gameplay with Acro as it was essentially, our brawlery style set we had post specialization patch.

Not to take away from your point, but improv never gave a damage boost unless you were wielding pve type bundles (the ones that replace your main weapons). Holding a stolen item didn’t count.

I think we deserve a little more defense from the acro line and maybe a 15% damage boost on sword auto attack personally.

Strange, some people have said it does, others have said it doesn’t. Either way, regardless of that, S/D just doesn’t have the survivability in the current meta to deal enough significant damage to make it worth running. Not because Acrobatics got nerfed but because everything else got buffed. I think if anything, Sword does need a slight damage boost, maybe 5-10% and some sort of trait like gaining damage reduction when gaining vigor and/or remove a condition on a successful evade.

Rain.9213:

Strange, some people have said it does, others have said it doesn’t. Either way, regardless of that, S/D just doesn’t have the survivability in the current meta to deal enough significant damage to make it worth running. Not because Acrobatics got nerfed but because everything else got buffed. I think if anything, Sword does need a slight damage boost, maybe 5-10% and some sort of trait like gaining damage reduction when gaining vigor and/or remove a condition on a successful evade.

No, even in the last meta the changes to FG and the Vigor nerf would imo be enough to kill S/D. Acro gives you now 1 more dodge in 20 seconds compared to the meta d/p build and if we assume that wild strike never hits (which is more than unlikely).

Perhaps add “regain (insert percentage) of endurance on a successful dodge” then?
Would still reward a skilled dodge how anet intended but not make those dodge spammers better than they should be.

After playing hundreds of hours on my thief and slowly getting nerfed to oblivion, I’ve finally switched classes to mesmer and started to enjoy the game. Sad but true.

Anet can’t do us like this. keep your head up. Robert Gee said he will definitely fix professions soon. He did admit to the fact that was a serious imbalance.

For those of you who dropped the Thief for a mesmer or anything else………………………………………………………………

…………………

I’m also considering switching to warrior since thief sucks at everything now. PvP survivability went down the toilet, and in wvw the only thing to do is roam unless you want to run the boring support builds. Really hate how thief is the most useless class now, especially since now I have to change legendaries mid way through crafting. I will have to change the gift (luckily I haven’t invested in a precursor yet).

Still not convinced that d/d is as bad as you make it out to be. I have seen s/x users beat heavy conditions build with out shadows embrace. You could always get a 2nd short bow and equp sigil of cleansing is it? I have heard of a sigil that clease a condition but never really looked into it, now with fire/air nerf ed I think I will re visit the drawing bored and look at the sigils. There is even a recent thread discussing viable d/d builds and they seem to be bouncing back and making it work.

That being said If I decide to go pvp on thief tonight instead of raiding on warrior with my guild (depending on MU) I will play d/d for a lengthly amount of time and see how truly bad it is.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Still not convinced that d/d is as bad as you make it out to be. I have seen s/x users beat heavy conditions build with out shadows embrace. You could always get a 2nd short bow and equp sigil of cleansing is it? I have heard of a sigil that clease a condition but never really looked into it, now with fire/air nerf ed I think I will re visit the drawing bored and look at the sigils. There is even a recent thread discussing viable d/d builds and they seem to be bouncing back and making it work.

That being said If I decide to go pvp on thief tonight instead of raiding on warrior with my guild (depending on MU) I will play d/d for a lengthly amount of time and see how truly bad it is.

No offense but “D/D can’t be as bad as you say, I’ve seen S/X users beating..”
Really?
That’s a good plan =)
But maybe we get a better matchup tonight.

I meant that they didn’t need to go balls deep through all of them aoes, risk getting blinded or even hit a block skill just land CnD to remove 2 conditions (pre patch) so 1 condition now. Simply because the didn’t even have the trait. And “spamming” #2 on swoedisn’t that great of an idea too.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I meant that they didn’t need to go balls deep through all of them aoes, risk getting blinded or even hit a block skill just land CnD to remove 2 conditions (pre patch) so 1 condition now. Simply because the didn’t even have the trait. And “spamming” #2 on swoedisn’t that great of an idea too.

Please, just try it: S/X is something entirely differently than D/D. Condi remove on shadowstep, immobilize on shadowstep, different trait lines for different problems – these trait lines also have got condi remove and together with shadow step that might be enough for S/X, for D/D it isn’t.

Edit: I mean honestly: You don’t even know D/D so why are you argueing about how viable it is?

Ofc I kitteng know d/d lol. I just play it religiously like other people do.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Ofc I kitteng know d/d lol. I just play it religiously like other people do.

Some day I’ll find you!

d/d is viable with at least 3 possible builds, it just need some skill, unlike d/p or warrior, ranger, mesmer which are completely brainless

Just saying though, I have played d/d pure bust builds and more sustaind builds. But I didn’t enjoy it as much as s/d and d/p. I think it’s healthy to play all weapon sets equally rather then just 1.

What server are you on?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Just saying though, I have played d/d pure bust builds and more sustaind builds. But I didn’t enjoy it as much as s/d and d/p. I think it’s healthy to play all weapon sets equally rather then just 1.

What server are you on?

Gunnars (told you a while ago)
Of course it’s completely healthy- I play S/P in dungeons, still I wouldn’t talk about how viable it is in wvw/pvp as I only play(ed) D/P and D/D.

And since none of my posts can go without an edit:
Of course I can say what problems I have against S/P when facing it – but how many D/D thieves have you seen since about a year in wvw/pvp? S/P seems to be the latest craze and with that D/D as you’ll have D/D, D/P and S/P – but in the end I guess most still use P5 and D 2.
Just killed a guard(ian) in a camp in wvw with D/D but I think my/the lags were helping and that he didn’t kill the Quartermaster, so I hadn’t had to watch my stealth.

Some experienced Dev should look with some love to a rework in some thief traits, IMO they look like something made in hurry due to short time on ready it to release the specialization patch on 24 June.

I like this kind of argumentation. I don’t play it, but I think it’s fine. It’s like the mesmer here (apharma) that tells us acro is perfectly fine.

In fact, nearly nobody plays d/d anymore (I just can’t remember when I have met the last enemy d/d thief and I play a few hours a day) and nearly nobody specs in Acro.