Guild Wars 2

This would be a good place to start with buffing thief would it not?

I agree 100%, thief needs to benefit from alacrity.
ps: the title sounds like they have already changed it

Selfibi.3487:

I agree 100%, thief needs to benefit from alacrity.
ps: the title sounds like they have already changed it

I’d rather it didn’t frankly, as that would open the door for initiative to be affected by slow.

Be careful what you wish for…

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Selfibi.3487:

I agree 100%, thief needs to benefit from alacrity.
ps: the title sounds like they have already changed it

I’d rather it didn’t frankly, as that would open the door for initiative to be affected by slow.

Be careful what you wish for…

slow is the opposite of quickness, not alacrity.

which brings the question, does quickness affect initiative regen? since it affects other classes’ cooldowns, one might expect it to.

samuelmcdevitte.5647:

This would be a good place to start with buffing thief would it not?

+1, all classes should benefit properly from alacrity. And thieves need a buff.

To be fair, then Chill should affect ini too (it never did and it still doesn’t).

both chill/alacrity should affect ini regeneration IMO, but i dont know how this could be balanced in pvp.

Fixed a bug when thief’s initiative system was not affected by Chill or Slow. Now when under those effects initiative will not recover for the whole effect duration, additionally when the thief uses a spell under this effects he will now take damage per initiative spent as properly intended.

Kaliny.8265:

Fixed a bug when thief’s initiative system was not affected by Chill or Slow. Now when under those effects initiative will not recover for the whole effect duration, additionally when the thief uses a spell under this effects he will now take damage per initiative spent as properly intended.

Also fixed a bug where Thieves would be able to get precursers from loot bags in WvW.
note: We felt as Thieves are not supposed to kill anything anymore, this would be a better incentive for Thieves to entirely focus on scouting.

Nephar.3746:

both chill/alacrity should affect ini regeneration IMO, but i dont know how this could be balanced in pvp.

No no no no no no no. If chill affected initiative, thieves would probably just be absolutely destroyed. just making it so initiative can be affected by alaclarity would be enough.

OR. If they made it so it was affected by both chill AND alclarity, then if argue for making it so when thief swapped weapons they would have their initiative refilled at least partially.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Nephar.3746:

both chill/alacrity should affect ini regeneration IMO, but i dont know how this could be balanced in pvp.

No no no no no no no. If chill affected initiative, thieves would probably just be absolutely destroyed. just making it so initiative can be affected by alaclarity would be enough.

OR. If they made it so it was affected by both chill AND alclarity, then if argue for making it so when thief swapped weapons they would have their initiative refilled at least partially.

Problem is, changes must follow some logic. Like Initiative beeing affected by buffs/debuffs that affect CDs. So if Alacrity, than chill and slow surely comes in the package.

Kaliny.8265:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Nephar.3746:

both chill/alacrity should affect ini regeneration IMO, but i dont know how this could be balanced in pvp.

No no no no no no no. If chill affected initiative, thieves would probably just be absolutely destroyed. just making it so initiative can be affected by alaclarity would be enough.

OR. If they made it so it was affected by both chill AND alclarity, then if argue for making it so when thief swapped weapons they would have their initiative refilled at least partially.

Problem is, changes must follow some logic. Like Initiative beeing affected by buffs/debuffs that affect CDs. So if Alacrity, than chill and slow surely comes in the package.

I do agree but the difference between alclarity and chill is one is a special effect the other is a condition, and being a reaper, I can output so much dang chill that keeping it off after cleansing is near impossible.

However, to expand on my previous post, Chill/Slow affecting ini regen would be the overkill for the Thief class.

And here’s why.

All other classes have only CDs on weapon skills. Now, if, say, they’ve used #4 and #5, and they get Chilled, they have the option to use #2 and #3, knowing that would increase the CDs.
For us Thieves, what would happen if we get Chill after having used already 10 ini (let’s say, 2 Vaults)? We would be completely screwed, having the whole weapon bar effectively shutted down for the duration of Chill, we wouldn’t even get the option for X seconds to use any #2-5 skill.

That would mean that we should have not only to equip DD trait line (pretty mandatory), but that we would need to equip Trickery always.

The only way not to render Alacrity too much OP on Thieves without letting Chill/Slow effective on ini regen would be to let Alacrity give us something like +33%/25% ini regen instead of the full +66%.

I don’t see any other way around it.

Like other posters said, if Alacrity affects initiative regeneration then chill should reduce initiative regeneration as well and this change will nerf thieves since only 1 class (that too a spec) has access to alacrity while a bunch of classes have access to chill.

This is a good point BUT alacrity should have a slightly lower effect on initiative as their utilites already get the alacrity bonus. If thieves get about 40% initiative bonus instead of 66% or 0% would be a nice middle ground.

Thief is already the worst for raids they deserve this,

I’m all for chill/slow/quickness/alacrity to affect init, but they have to be adequately balanced around init.

The speed/slow of these effects at their base values in applied directly to init regen would be OP in the case of quick/alac, and class destroying in the case of slow/chill.

In the past I’d have said that slow/chill were’nt appropriate for init simply on the basis of thief’s poor condi cleanse, but we actually have adequate access to cleanses now so I think its a good time to have this conversation.

These effects should totally effect init, but need to be individually balanced against init since it’s quite different than weapon colldowns in terms of its effects on survivability and DPS.

Please stop talking about quickness and slow. They affect animation times, not cooldowns. They should have no effect on initiative regen since they already affect our animation times appropriately.

Chill and alacrity should be the only things we’re talking about here. I support them affecting initiative, but if they do, we need to regain initiative on weapon swap.

Why does quickness and slow keep getting brought up in relation to initiative regeneration? Those only effect the speed of attacks/animations, not cool downs. Chilled is the counter part to alacrity. Chilled increases cool down times while alacrity decreases cool down times. If alacrity is changed to speed up initiative regen, then chilled will most likely also be changed to slow down initiative regen. Since only Mesmers have access to alacrity, and a lot of classes have access to chill, I think this would hurt us more than help us, except maybe in PVE if you have a Mesmer granting you alacrity. With that said, I think Unhindered Combatant and maybe Don’t Stop (if Acrobatics was a bit better) would see a bit more use if this change did happen.

No.

As was said above, we cant benefit from Alacrity without suffering from a slowdown condi too, and the only way we can benefit from Alacrity is if a mesmer specifically casts it on us.

meanwhile there are sigils, runes, and classes that have access to chill.

This would make us worse.

If they split PvE and PvP balance, this could just be for PvE.

Thieves can have alacrity on thier ini.

With it they’ll also have chill effect init regen. Also all weapon skills with cast times that get interrupted with Power Block will go on a 15s cd.

You can have your cake and eat it too.

Gray.9041:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Selfibi.3487:

I agree 100%, thief needs to benefit from alacrity.
ps: the title sounds like they have already changed it

I’d rather it didn’t frankly, as that would open the door for initiative to be affected by slow.

Be careful what you wish for…

slow is the opposite of quickness, not alacrity.

which brings the question, does quickness affect initiative regen? since it affects other classes’ cooldowns, one might expect it to.

You’re right, I was tired when I posted lol. With the current state of thief and the track record set by the last few patches, i’d rather leave ini unaffected by anything than have it buffed by one class’s mechanic and nerfed by chill.