Guild Wars 2

why nerf 10% of total dmg in pve/wvw? wont that make this stronger?

im RARELY ever play guard.

face tanked priest of grenth down to 10% and pretty much only person around. i usually dont even get downed but ull get the idea from this.

dare somebody to do this on thief.

point is this is OP. not thief.

http://youtu.be/jlsNloc9EMY

PS its 7 mins of face tank time. insane. I know guard is supposed to be better at tanking. but not like 15020245x better right?

Thanks for posting, No matter what, players will always feel that the “rogue, Theif, Assassin” style class is to OP, but in reality, they are Far from it.

More Post like this will help players open there eyes.

Thief style classes are play differently, and that type of difference is what makes players hate them.

They are a Hit and run, Evade style class, any DPS build they do should hit hard and fast, thats the point of thief.

There are MANY counters to thief, Players just dont wana take time to learn them.

i mean im no great guard (im main thief 99% of time) and i make so many mistakes im sure great guards could point out but i was still alive doing most the dmg…. i just dont get what anet is doing and QQers on thief. we should have our IR unnerfed and mug crit unnerfed and many others. redic. now a 10% dmg reduction incomign

What did you expect? You’re running enough Cleric’s gear to start your own religion, and you have very modest damage as a result. You have a lot of Armor and green numbers, but were doing squat for DPS once your party members went down.

Ironically, your Thief might have had better luck here, since the mobs of enemies at Grenth make things like active evasion, blinds, and Signet of Malice a hell of a lot more useful than Aegis. Although this was a nice fight for Symbol of Faith, at least.

Interceptor.2653:

What did you expect? You’re running enough Cleric’s gear to start your own religion, and you have very modest damage as a result. You have a lot of Armor and green numbers, but were doing squat for DPS once your party members went down.

Ironically, your Thief might have had better luck here, since the mobs of enemies at Grenth make things like active evasion, blinds, and Signet of Malice a hell of a lot more useful than Aegis. Although this was a nice fight for Symbol of Faith, at least.

Im just sticking up for anyone that thinks thief isnt OP, I know conditions arnt the best, but a Dire condition thief with SoM, Caltrops and Dagger storm can live FOR EVER.

A good s/p SoM thief can too.

Faux.1937:

Interceptor.2653:

What did you expect? You’re running enough Cleric’s gear to start your own religion, and you have very modest damage as a result. You have a lot of Armor and green numbers, but were doing squat for DPS once your party members went down.

Ironically, your Thief might have had better luck here, since the mobs of enemies at Grenth make things like active evasion, blinds, and Signet of Malice a hell of a lot more useful than Aegis. Although this was a nice fight for Symbol of Faith, at least.

Im just sticking up for anyone that thinks thief isnt OP, I know conditions arnt the best, but a Dire condition thief with SoM, Caltrops and Dagger storm can live FOR EVER.

A good s/p SoM thief can too.

A mediocre D/D apothecary/settler’s thief can do that by spamming 3 and caltrops.

i run S/P SOM caltrops on my thief for farming . u still cant stand up here.

there is no thief build that can stand up and attack that priest of grenth.

point is even with clerics armor …. i did more dmg on guardian than my thief would do with full zerker.

go ahead. get a thief and go make a video. ill practice a lil on guardian and do next video better. it was a 1 try thing. on a whim. wasnt like i play guardian or play it well. a good guardian could prolly solo that grenth with no help at all.

anyone who thinks thief is OP….then they have to admit guardian needs about 5x the nerfs that thief does. theres just no arguing it.

even if i wore zerk armor…..ur telling me id die as fast as my thief? no. ive done that here too. hurts a lil more but i can push the shades around.

of course everytime i make a point / challenge. im ONLY person who backs it up with a video. go ahead. anyone. interceptor? anyone. go make a video face tanking on thief.

Its usually not the raw power coming out of a thief (sometimes it is, tho) that makes players up set, it is usually the fact that people can’t wrap their heads around a thief. The best mesmer isn’t a mesmer, but a thief. If I would get 1 silver for every person that stops throwing out AoE/autoattacks as soon as I vanish in stealth I’d be really rich. If I’d get another silver for every person trying to face tank me in black powders, well lets not even go there.

Most people fall for the joke “stealth = invul”. You won’t beat a decent one by just blowing your crap into them in those 3 seconds.

Avatar Yirachi.7162:

Its usually not the raw power coming out of a thief (sometimes it is, tho) that makes players up set, it is usually the fact that people can’t wrap their heads around a thief. The best mesmer isn’t a mesmer, but a thief. If I would get 1 silver for every person that stops throwing out AoE/autoattacks as soon as I vanish in stealth I’d be really rich. If I’d get another silver for every person trying to face tank me in black powders, well lets not even go there.

Most people fall for the joke “stealth = invul”. You won’t beat a decent one by just blowing your crap into them in those 3 seconds.

exactly. some people hate thief and never play them. or diddle around with them and never REALLY try at a higher lvl like 80s. they dont know how easy they have it.

oh whast that u missed a dodge and got hit by a bosses AOE? whoops ur thief is dead?

oh whats that you missed 3 dodges in a row from a bosses AOE and your heal is on cooldown? its ok u still have 25% hp on your warrior/guard. welcome to the introductory game class.|

challenge still stands somebody go make a video of a thief tanking/attacking without reprieve the priest of grenth for 7 mins.

Interceptor.2653:

What did you expect? You’re running enough Cleric’s gear to start your own religion

;D

Travlane.5948:

challenge still stands somebody go make a video of a thief tanking/attacking without reprieve the priest of grenth for 7 mins.

Why seven minutes? I don’t think that a Thief could last that long, but it’s not like you did either. I would have been impressed if you had kept your party alive against all odds, but once your party went down and you got focused, all you really did was refuse to die for 45 seconds while doing a little bit of damage in the process.

Straight-up zerker’s on Thief would not do it. There is too much incidental damage. And anyway, the bar for DPS is easy to clear, since you were hitting for low four-digit damage (which required Fury from someone, since you have no Precision whatsoever, and crit damage apparently only from Valor). I don’t know what the best build would be in terms of stats, but it definitely involves Healing Power to feed Signet of Malice and possibly AR.

What would that prove, anyway? I don’t think that Guardian is OP (disclaimer: I also play one). Maybe they will throw us a bone and some of their “nice things for Thieves” involve giving us more access to crit damage via our traits.

I’ve managed to sit in front of the priest of grenth for ages on my warrior too. It’s not such a big deal. Thieves at grenth suffer from all the same old problems with blind vs defiant and inability to soak stray attacks coming from all angles.

Travlane.5948:

there is no thief build that can stand up and attack that priest of grenth.

There is nothing in the entire of the PvE scene that evasion + SoM cannot beat.

I have also solo’d this before (in my event farming gear which is PTV + Traveler armor instead of Berserker + Scholar, but whatever), it’s not even remotely difficult. When you’re the only one around you can just pull him towards the back of the temple (near the skill point) and then to the side (breaking LoS), and the Shades won’t even pay attention to you in that corner.

If I find an empty server that hasn’t bugged and can get to that stage then I’ll record it, but really, just try it if you get aggro next time. SoM will easily outheal any incidental damage from Ice Elementals, you can kite any leftover Risen that give up fighting NPCs to join you in that corner and melt them down along with the Priest and the Priest himself doesn’t use anything dangerous up close until the big circles which take a few seconds to land.

Auesis.7301:

Travlane.5948:

there is no thief build that can stand up and attack that priest of grenth.

There is nothing in the entire of the PvE scene that evasion + SoM cannot beat.

I have also solo’d this before, it’s not even remotely difficult. When you’re the only one around you can just pull him towards the back of the temple (near the skill point) and then to the side (breaking LoS), and the Shades won’t even pay attention to you in that corner.

If I find an empty server that hasn’t bugged and can get to that stage then I’ll record it, but really, just try it. SoM will easily outheal any incidental damage from Ice Elementals and the Priest himself doesn’t use anything dangerous up close until the big circles which take a few seconds to land.

Thanks man. This is what I’ve been trying to say. SoM Death Blossom Caltrops in apothecary can solo any PvE content in this game with relative ease. Even Lupicus is a joke (although this takes ~15 minutes of the same monotonous rotations) when running it.

Funnily enough, I didn’t even use any conditions or +Healing. I had PTV + Traveler (my event farming gear) with Berserker trinkets and ran S/P + SB. I don’t remember the exact build at the time, it may have been 25/30/0/15/0 since I did it immediately after soloing Arah p2 (using Berserker + Scholar) and I wanted those extra evasions for Lupi. I dread to think how little effort a condition build with apothecary would take (I only really used one properly on the one Fractal level where crits hurt you, and it was a borefest of 333swapshiftshift3333swapshift333shift3swap).

Like I said, if I find an empty server that isn’t stuck then I’ll record something. It’s a bit of a tall order these days (even Vabbi has at least one other person there sometimes), but some day I might be able to get around to it.

Point is, I don’t really get it. The guardian was hitting like a wet noodle and refused to die. Yay? We can refuse to die and not hit like a wet noodle (much more evident with condi setups).

yes warrior can do it too.

thief cannot tho. both of you naysayers wont make a video bc u know u cant. period. period period. u cant. bc thief is nowhere near guard/warrior/engie/necro etc in pve.

since u missed it ill say it again….. read carefully.

THIEF IN FULL ZERK = LESS DMG THAN GUARD IN FULL CLERICS

@ priest of grenth.

dead thief = no dmg.

live guard with low dmg for full time = much more dmg.

prove me wrong. video link? aaaaaaaaaaaaaah thats right here is not bc it wont happen. 1 hitter on thief mayb 1.2 hits? either way. u cant do what guardian did in video. NOT EVEN CLOSE. you are right it was 6.5 mins not 7. whoah. good thing u caught that lol.

so go get your thief. attack the whole time at priest of grenth. i dont mean with 150 people in there. i mean like i did in video. just go full out attack on priest. my guess is you last 30-40 secs tops even if u go safety net with low skill lvl apoth armor. ( srry to call it low skill lvl but none of the high end thieves play it 4 a reason).

ill be waiting for your video.

PS>… if u want to naysay thats fine. but bring somethign to the table. not just " im a hero and i can do…. bleh bleh bleh" . vid?

K. Gandara seems empty. I will try and get a recording for you.

Done. Editing and uploading asap. Should be a couple of hours.

couple of hours? editing? UNEDITED plz. just like mine. shouldnt be ANY need. its invalid if edited. if any time is missing between 1st and last strike its useless. well if its gonna be a few horus…im calling it. 3am.

Editing refers to adding text showing the build that I forgot to display and speeding up the pre-event (this does not include Grenth, which has absolutely no speed/clip edits, just one piece of text that pops up). Why am I including the pre-event? Because I like to be thorough, deal with it. The couple of hours would be my upload speed, because my ISP is terrible and the uncompressed clip is multiple GB that I refuse to wait 3 days for (which is pretty much the whole reason I edit things, I then add text for good measure).

Upload will take 90 minutes. If you’re interested, it takes 2:20 to kill him, from first dealing damage with Caltrops before the pull is complete to the final Sword strike. True kill would take 2:30 or so since a single Necro runs in and puts down a couple of condis when the Priest is about to die.

Thiefs do look a little OP when played right – sad fact is, they aren’t as anyone who plays one can tell you. The 10% dmg nerf is going to be a disaster because … no, it won’t ruin the class for me but it will kill the purpose of the class little by little.
At this point we really would need somd balance patch that goes like this: Dmg decrease on any class BUT thief (and maybe ele).
Look at how Anet talks about thief on their livestreams NO ONE of the balance team really plays a thief to begin with – how do we expect them to balance out the issue that comes with just watching good thiefs really using their full potential?!

Balancing this game around PVP is a sad and fat mistake – it always has been and it always will be.

For the record watching your video-
Full support gear, full support traits, using the signet for ressing people. Still doesn’t at any point support anyone or revive anyone during the attempt.
If only YouTube had a “terrible player” filter on it.

There, even used Zerk + Scholar just for you.

“prove me wrong. video link? aaaaaaaaaaaaaah thats right here is not bc it wont happen. 1 hitter on thief mayb 1.2 hits? either way. u cant do what guardian did in video. NOT EVEN CLOSE. you are right it was 6.5 mins not 7. whoah. good thing u caught that lol.”

Great work Auesis, and Travlane, take this as a lesson. Just because you or a good portion of other players are too inexperienced to pull something off doesn’t mean it can’t be done. There is always a better player out there.

inb4: OMG CARRIED BY GEAR, EXPLOITING BY MOVING THE BOSS, OMG THOSE 3 AUTOATTACKS FROM THE NECRO, NOT VALID!

I wonder how Travlane will justify his claims now

Auesis.7301:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWTkhG5B40g

gg

Denar.3950:

I wonder how Travlane will justify his claims now

By undermining the video, of course.

1. Fight only lasted less than three minutes, not the seven minutes like the challenge.
2. Thief didn’t pull every mob in the room like a noob boss.
3. He used Thieves Guild, and the Necromancer obviously carried the end of the fight, so it wasn’t a solo.

That’s my guess, anyway. Was a nice video, wasn’t expecting the fight to be as straightforward/easy as it ended up being. Holy hell at the gear.

Auesis.7301:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWTkhG5B40g

There, even used Zerk + Scholar just for you.

I love you so much right now.

Very well done, good job!

There is nothing in the entire of the PvE scene that evasion + SoM cannot beat.

Horace and Ivor Trueshot.

Excalibur.9748:

There is nothing in the entire of the PvE scene that evasion + SoM cannot beat.

Horace and Ivor Trueshot.

Challenge accepted. Ivor already done, got Horace to 10% before making a mistake and a random came in to res me and finish it, so will get that done soon.

EDIT: Done, will upload as soon as I put the pieces together.

I think the point of doing more damage on his guard than thief is he isn’t having to spend time actively evading or being dead. Dead zerker = dps, vs clerics who just skips by throwing aoe attacks. Even if they hit weak it’s still constant.

On the flip side, a zerker guard wouldn’t last too well there, atleast I don’t believe so considering the trait reworks they would do to get there but maybe someone has such a build to be beefy and deal heavy damage with gs without going down like a pile of bricks. Thief may hit harder in general but the lose the luxury of sustain as a result, passive sustain. Som, caltrops, caltrops on dodge, pw, w/e you want it will help though. Its not viable in wvw or pvp but it sure does hella wonders in pve. I’ve solo’ed Captain rotbeard with a similar build, never got close to death.

i didnt even think of that….. meaning finding an empty server so there are …

1) no shades or summons that are all UPSCALED
2) downscaled priest with prolly 10% of the hp as the one in my video.

this wasnt a challenge bc any thief can solo 1 boss. but in a fray like i had…. no.

this wasnt even the same conditions. not even close. i mean i can solo lupi on my thief but that doesnt mean op bc 1 v1 has no real place in this game.

kudos for the 1v1 but that wasnt the challenge. but ill take responsibility for that. i should have clarified not to downscale it and make sure nothign summoned.

the challenge wasnt JUST the priest. his aoe is a joke. its the whole of enemies coming at you. priest is only about 25%of the problem there. the other 75% is risen summons and shades. so im still waiting on a video SHOWING what guardian did but a thief doing it.

anyone have one?

NinjaEd.3946:

I think the point of doing more damage on his guard than thief is he isn’t having to spend time actively evading or being dead. Dead zerker = dps, vs clerics who just skips by throwing aoe attacks. Even if they hit weak it’s still constant.

On the flip side, a zerker guard wouldn’t last too well there, atleast I don’t believe so considering the trait reworks they would do to get there but maybe someone has such a build to be beefy and deal heavy damage with gs without going down like a pile of bricks. Thief may hit harder in general but the lose the luxury of sustain as a result, passive sustain. Som, caltrops, caltrops on dodge, pw, w/e you want it will help though. Its not viable in wvw or pvp but it sure does hella wonders in pve. I’ve solo’ed Captain rotbeard with a similar build, never got close to death.

a zerker guard…in that chessy video with no shades no risen as he pulled priest to a corner…….

i didnt use any of these 3 tricks which also lower his hp and lower the incoming dmg/attacks by 90%. that thief did nothign in that video other than dodge aoe. that was not even close to the p oint.

@ auses MY POINT was the FRAY (in combat chaos with lots of enemies lots of aoe raining down and lots of dmg incoming…. none of which you had other than half of the AOE)

i can go find an EMPTY server and make a cheat video. its not about KILLING priest its about tanking him while avoiding shades and risen and having them all upscaled.

Difficulty of my video = 9

Difficulty of your video = 3

Auesis.7301

wait til the evening whentheres some players to upscale the event and try again. if u do it…ill truly be impressed. and i wont say anything silly.

if you DO do it CORRECTLY….. it still takes much more effort and perfection than guardian. but i don think when its upscaled with so many people you will be able to do this. the priest wont be in the corner.

this corniness reminds me of a challenge i put on another thief. i said condi thief can clear wvw camp faster than direct dmg. he said no way. we both made videos his was like 1-2 secs faster until i remade but still. he used a cheap trick. he could only do it on ONE camp on ONE map. he used the NE camp and brought them down around the rock and cluttered them up (took few tries) and used s/p.

so by slight techinicality he was right. in reality he was totally wrong bc nobody gets the chance to do that 98% of the time. nobody also uses s/p in wvw. its d/p or d/d or p/d or sb. either way dont be corny and accept the challenge

AHahahahaha, god you’re tragic. Learn when to give up.

I have lost all hope in rationality. All possible arguments you could ever make for class balance or, well, anything to do with this game are null and void.

If you also didn’t notice, I tanked him and killed all the mobs surrounding him at the same time, and the event is already tagged as a Group Event and as such is already scaled above a single player?

Please, give up. Just, please.

Auesis.7301:

You realise that I dragged all of the mobs around the priest with me to the corner and killed them as well?

I have lost all hope. All possible arguments you could ever make for class balance or, well, anything to do with this game are null and void.

tell u what. ill go get BLUE armor on my guard and do the same on an EMPTY server. its not hard. its quite easy. your mobs have 1/20th the HP. theere were about 90% less mobs. shades…..risen….. The priest has no direct dmg … only AOE. anyone on thief can dodge theaoe . thats nto the challenge.

u didnt replicate. u made a new environment and cheesed it down! did you not?

clear the mobs? gr8. why didnt more respawn? ahh you tricked priest to go in corner. can you do that with dozens of other people there? no. hence why you had to change the eviro.

i will give u kudos for recognizing what the hard part was ….but kinda of redic to take that part away just so you can finish. seriously. we can do it together and ill make sure shades come and attack if u like. see how good u are then? or do u wanna do it right yourself?

guard difficulty 9

your thief difficulty 3

can you deny this?

Will someone please explain what a bad mouse-clicking guardian killing PvE content has to do with thieves being called OP in PvP/WvW?

Oozo.7856:

Will someone please explain what a bad mouse-clicking guardian killing PvE content has to do with thieves being called OP in PvP/WvW?

lol ur new to forums. im a thief. i have my skills hotkeyed to my thief. i dont play guardian. thats half the point.

Yes, I can deny that. I have no further need to prove myself. Like I already said, the event is already scaled above one player (hence “GROUP EVENT”). Also, no, we can’t do it together because you are on NA, and I would also never want to be in your presence, because even if I followed your ridiculous, pedantic criteria to follow your anti-Thief agenda you would make up pathetic excuses over and over again until I bent the rules of reality and entered the game universe, strangled the Shades one by one with my bare hands and then whipped out an Assault Rifle and tore down the entire building.

Get over yourself.

@AUESIS

let me make this simple for you.

why did my vid have lots of shades attacking and yours didnt?

why was my enemies (preist/risen/shades) have higher hp AND scaled up?

why did you pull your priest into a corner while i fight in open?

Travlane you’re not a thief, or a guardian, you’re barely a player. You’ve made an absolute fool of yourself here, and I sincerely advise you either work to improve, go find another (easier) game to play, and/or just stop posting on here where so many people have to cringe at your lack of basic common sense.

Interceptor.2653:

Denar.3950:

I wonder how Travlane will justify his claims now

By undermining the video, of course.

I called it. Give me all your +1’s.

This is why your challenges go unresponded. Fortunately this wasn’t a waste of time, because 1) the response video was an enjoyable watch, 2) I learned something interesting about the Grenth fight, and 3) dem Legendaries.

Snow.9862:

Travlane you’re not a thief, or a guardian, you’re barely a player. You’ve made an absolute fool of yourself here, and I sincerely advise you either work to improve, go find another (easier) game to play, and/or just stop posting on here where so many people have to cringe at your lack of basic common sense.

if u attack somebody rather than their comments….. ad hominem.

cmon grow up seriously. i wont even report what you are saying. but u can challenge me infact ill msg u in game now.

my point was made. most people agree. a video was made to prove it wrong…. it had 1 of the same enemies but was vastly set up different so … fail!

ever finish HS? did u go to college? i have. know anything experiments? controls? variables? go finish and you will understand why these 2 videos are VASTLY different and so is the difficulty.

Interceptor.2653:

Interceptor.2653:

Denar.3950:

I wonder how Travlane will justify his claims now

By undermining the video, of course.

I called it. Give me all your +1’s.

This is why your challenges go unresponded. Fortunately this wasn’t a waste of time, because 1) the response video was an enjoyable watch, 2) I learned something interesting about the Grenth fight, and 3) dem Legendaries.

answer the questions i gave aueses. the 3. u wont bc u know and i bow out

1) why didnt a bunch of shades and risen spawn and attack him

2) why was mine upscaled so much and not his?

3) why did he use corner with NOBODY around and i fought in OPEN?

pretty obvious. the challenge was that guardian could stand in the middle of FRAY with ease and still do dmg while a thief doing the same would be dead. he did NOTHING like that in video.

Travlane.5948:

Oozo.7856:

Will someone please explain what a bad mouse-clicking guardian killing PvE content has to do with thieves being called OP in PvP/WvW?

lol ur new to forums. im a thief. i have my skills hotkeyed to my thief. i dont play guardian. thats half the point.

I play multiple classes and don’t mouseclick on any of them. You are nothing but excuses.

Answer the question. What does a clip of a mouseclicking guardian killing PvE content have to do with thieves being called OP in PvP or WvW?

Oozo.7856:

Travlane.5948:

Oozo.7856:

Will someone please explain what a bad mouse-clicking guardian killing PvE content has to do with thieves being called OP in PvP/WvW?

lol ur new to forums. im a thief. i have my skills hotkeyed to my thief. i dont play guardian. thats half the point.

I play multiple classes and don’t mouseclick on any of them. You are nothing but excuses.

Answer the question. What does a clip of a mouseclicking guardian killing PvE content have to do with thieves being called OP in PvP or WvW?

well i dont play guardian. like less than .1 % of my time. i have no muscle memory for my THIEF’s hotkeys to be transfered over to guard. its like me adding a new class to game and new skills for it and making u hop on and use hotkeys without changing anythign. are you simple? lol

Interceptor.2653:

Interceptor.2653:

Denar.3950:

I wonder how Travlane will justify his claims now

By undermining the video, of course.

I called it. Give me all your +1’s.

Yeah, completely forgot about that. Got to give you credit, I was fully expecting at least one of those points. I’m done here, it’s just a flat-out waste of time trying to reason with him, but I will link the Ashford champs when that uploads tomorrow for Excalibur’s sake. Want to use the bandwidth for the new LS update for today.

The only sensible thing the OP has said in this entire thread is that he’s not a good Guardian…

The original challenge, from an earlier post was: “challenge still stands somebody go make a video of a thief tanking/attacking without reprieve the priest of grenth for 7 mins.”

While Au. didn’t take 7 minutes, it was clear from the video, that he did tank/attack the priest until it was dead. And it looked like he got nowhere close to dying. Honestly, I think 10% more life on the priest and its minions would have just made the video a bit longer; the results would have been the same though. Au. owned that battle.

So if the argument was that thieves can’t tank certain bosses, I’d say it was proven wrong.

If the argument is now that thieves can’t do what guardians do, well, that would be hard to prove. And what would be the point? Guardians can’t do what thieves do either.