Guild Wars 2

alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.

I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.

Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.

With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.

With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.

anet fix this pls.

Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

EDIT: I am totally fine with the cleanse , permastealth , healing that comes from SA line and those traits make thief very fun to play when traited with SA. But putting permastealth and SA minor 25 trait together is just wrong, it dwarfs any other defensive trait lines of any professions. The fact that you can keep stacking might when you are still in stealth and stacking stealth time makes this trait provide more power than 30 points in DA.

30SA is only a must if you want defense/sustain in a fight.

Burst includes no SA whatsoever.

It’s not OP.

It’s quite OP. Thieves have enormous damage mitigation in stealth. They are virtually immune to most condition based builds that aren’t OP themselves.

I lol-ed at the 1 free blinding powder. More like 1 free reveal @ 25%…

I agree with swinsk… it’s not for burst, it’s for survival. It’s not OP. That doesn’t mean other trait lines couldn’t use some tweaking after all of the changes that have happened though (this is a common problem with all classes).

swinsk.6410:

30SA is only a must if you want defense/sustain in a fight.

Burst includes no SA whatsoever.

It’s not OP.

When you have easy 10 stack might from this line, yes, it gives you sustain, escape and better burst than DA.

Just check out the meta burst thief builds, it’s a must.

None one is running 25 30 0 0 15 meta burst build anymore in neither pvp nor wvw.

Aberrant.6749:

I lol-ed at the 1 free blinding powder. More like 1 free reveal @ 25%…

I agree with swinsk… it’s not for burst, it’s for survival. It’s not OP. That doesn’t mean other trait lines couldn’t use some tweaking after all of the changes that have happened though (this is a common problem with all classes).

I don’t know if you know this… but the ability to deal damage, whilst surviving… pretty OP. I’m looking at you, Beastmaster Ranger.

noobftw.9654:

alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.

I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.

Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.

With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.

With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.

anet fix this pls.

Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

You try 1v1ing another class, and/or thief, and see who will win. You need to be skillful and understand your thief class first before you start making all those claims. If someone puts 30 in SA it doesn’t guarantee a win, it doesn’t even guarantee that thief can sustain, and survive, it’s all about how you play your thief. Yes I agree that the stacking of might should probably be in a different tree, but the other major a minor traits are pretty decent where they are. SA tree could use tweaking, i don’t disagree with you, but mainly it’s how you play your thief. And if you go D/D with 30 in SA, and rely on C/D for stealth, then I pray for your ability to stay alive against a D/P blind thief.

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

And there’s a really easy fix for this, and the devs intended to implement it in the big WvW patch, but instead they did something wrong, and went back to the way it was again… Give us 3 seconds of revealed wether we attack from stealth or not and make it impossible to chain stealth.

This would really fix most issues people say thieves have. It will make impossible for us to stealth and stay in stealth forever to run away or reset a fight. It would make it impossible to spam stacks of might. It would make it impossible for us to surf Zergs and to most of the stuff people hate that we do.

And it would force us thieves to think twice before vanishing since we now will have to decide – attack or run away? It will add much more depth to the class and it will take away most of the stuff that’s the reason why thieves are called easy mode in WvW.

@noobftw, is it just me or did you contradict yourself throughout your post?

noobftw.9654”

IMO shadow arts trait line is way op

noobftw.9654”

I am not claiming thief is op.

If a trait line is OP, but the class isn’t OP, then it makes it irrelevant really to bring it out…

noobftw.9654”

not asking for a nerfing of thief

noobftw.9654”

probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

That’s pretty much IS a Nerf…

Now, I don’t use that trait that stacks might on stealth, because I find the blind on stealth way more effective to keep me alive. As for healing in stealth, it is a 30 points trait, it should be at least effective otherwise it wont be worth 30 points. As for one condition removed every 3 seconds in stealth, this is actually good for survivability, but gaining two initiatives on stealth might help you burst more. So it ISN’T OP, you need to decide what to choose depending on your playstyle and preference.

The only fix needed si in the D/P build, they have to work on it, NOT on the SA line…

It’s most definately not OP.

I decided to try going with 30 points in SA just to try a new build. Not only was all the aforemention traits not more helpful than 30 points in DA, they were useless for my playstyle.

There is no high dps burst with 30 points in SA and backstab builds still work if you know how to make them work.

Shadow arts only improves surivability (imo).

I’m not sure where you play that you sit there accumulating 10 might stacks before fighting to kill one person, but it’s a waste of time. Save your initiative if you want to escape.

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Mathias.9657:

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Backstab is not OP, Stealth skill itself is balanced. But the whole stealth trait is OP. Truth.

noobftw.9654:

swinsk.6410:

30SA is only a must if you want defense/sustain in a fight.

Burst includes no SA whatsoever.

It’s not OP.

When you have easy 10 stack might from this line, yes, it gives you sustain, escape and better burst than DA.

Just check out the meta burst thief builds, it’s a must.

None one is running 25 30 0 0 15 meta burst build anymore in neither pvp nor wvw.

You are really complaining about the might stacks as being over powered?

What next for thief is overpowered?

Regen boon over powered for thief?

Swiftness over powered on thief?

30SA has been sustain build since day 1 in spvp and wvw. Burst builds may not use it but any sustain does.

In wvw this entire line is negated by a trap any class can buy anyways.

EDIT: If having might stacks on thief is overpowered then just remove the kitten class because any class can build might… With SA it takes time to build your might stacks. Signets of Power is better for building might stacks. Why don’t you QQ about that?

bladie.5084:

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Then how do you suppose a thief sustains himself in a fight without stealth?

Where would you put our health regen/condi removal then?

This thread is dumb.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

They are virtually immune to most condition based builds

False sentence.
You remove 1 condition while entering stealth and 1 whenyou exit (not really exit but the last second if you trait in SA), and if you got a cover condition, you’ll remove that first.
So, not really OP, players just have to actually put some strategy into this, cover their 15-20 stacks of bleed so you have to remove another condition first and then eat atleast 2 secs of ticking.
I find the Guardian’s condition removal much more better than ours.

swinsk.6410:

bladie.5084:

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Then how do you suppose a thief sustains himself in a fight without stealth?

Where would you put our health regen/condi removal then?

This thread is dumb.

This thread is not dumb.
What about rewarding thieves for not stealthing?
1. Like said before, 3 secs revealed buff regardless if you hit or didn’t hit someone.
2. the condi trait can stay.
3. nerf the regen slightly from regen while in stealth.
4. taking 10/15% burst dmg while in stealth reveals you.
5. in order to balance #4 and #1, take Last refuge out and put in fleet shadow, move 50% faster while in stealth.
6. Infusion of Shadow cooldown 5 seconds.
the list can go on and on.~~

bladie.5084:

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Mathias.9657:

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Backstab is not OP, Stealth skill itself is balanced. But the whole stealth trait is OP. Truth.

Lol you clearly haven’t used a shortbow in DA line before… 3 seconds? Wow, not even gonna waste my time informing you.

I go full 30SA and with that might and my 98% crit dmg, 0/30/30/10/0 my backstabs at most hit an 80 character for 7k, nothing compared to those GC’s so it takes alot more than SA to make us OP

Mathias.9657:

bladie.5084:

Mathias.9657:

I disagree completely. SA is mostly for survival, I definitely don’t take it for the epic damage you think it has lol. yeah I’m going to waste time chaining a few cloak and daggers while someone is capping a point because I have all the time in the world for my ‘sustain’ right? No… just no. This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.

Spamming poison field just to get a 3 sec weakness is not op and it’s not perma. You’re sacrificing initiative, putting yourself in danger in close range, and have very inefficient DPS to poison and weak.

This is not a complaint, it’s a fact. stealth trait is OP. You are basically rewarded everything for stealthing. In and out combat, you can still perma stealth.

Mathias.9657:

I would imagine you should know how a thief works since you apparently main one?

Backstab is not OP, Stealth skill itself is balanced. But the whole stealth trait is OP. Truth.

Lol you clearly haven’t used a shortbow in DA line before… 3 seconds? Wow, not even gonna waste my time informing you.

You don’t need to because I wouldn’t waste my time traiting in DA line when there are better traits to invest in. It’s not OP and I’m going to tell you why. People don’t complain about it. Simple as that.

Azraeel.1238:

@noobftw, is it just me or did you contradict yourself throughout your post?

noobftw.9654”

IMO shadow arts trait line is way op

noobftw.9654”

I am not claiming thief is op.

If a trait line is OP, but the class isn’t OP, then it makes it irrelevant really to bring it out…

noobftw.9654”

not asking for a nerfing of thief

noobftw.9654”

probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

That’s pretty much IS a Nerf…

Now, I don’t use that trait that stacks might on stealth, because I find the blind on stealth way more effective to keep me alive. As for healing in stealth, it is a 30 points trait, it should be at least effective otherwise it wont be worth 30 points. As for one condition removed every 3 seconds in stealth, this is actually good for survivability, but gaining two initiatives on stealth might help you burst more. So it ISN’T OP, you need to decide what to choose depending on your playstyle and preference.

READ carefully. I am not saying thief is op, im just saying SA line is op and it makes DA completely useless and now they even nerfed mug burst. And I am not saying this line should be taken away or whatever, I am just stating the fact that with minor 25 trait, this line is more bursty than DA and ANET should consider move minor 25 to a trait line that means burst dmg.

For peeps who still argues about SA is only survivability, fyi, with dp build, you can stack 6 might with one smoke field if you don’t screw it up, and another 6 after you gained 8 initiative in about 6 secs. You would be more bursty than a paper burst thief. With all the extra survivability and escape skills this line provides, it will be a nobrainer’s choice. Lets also not forget this line gives thief permastealth, best escape traits and top grade cleanse and healing. The healing from major 30 trait is probably only second to the ele water line & evasive arcane combined on par with guardian valor line and ranger WS line. I like all the other traits from SA but minor 25 shouldn’t belong here. Putting permastealth and minor 25 in the same trait line is a mistake. Minor 25 trait is being abused in pvp and wvw meta builds. The fact that you can stack up whole bunch of might in permastealth and without the need to worry about boon strip is op. This trait line is too good to be missed in any meta pvp, wvw or even dungeon builds.

Shadow Arts keeps me in dungeons. I’d rather not do without it.

Let’s see other Classes 25 minor trait in their defense line:
Mesmer: 5% of toughness = condition damage
Engineer: 10% healing is given as power
Guardian: Gain might when blocking
Necro: 5% of toughness is given as power
Ranger: 5% extra damage when health >90%
Warrior: 5% of toughness is given as power
ele: Deal more damage when health is full.

So as you can see, all of them offer extra damage, why should ours be different?

Um.. the shadow rejuv at base compassion (300 needed to get it) is only about 300-400 per pulse and the actual shadow protector is better because it will stay on you shortly after stealth (think it refreshes too can anyone test?)

Um.. the shadow rejuv at base compassion (300 needed to get it) is only about 300-400 per pulse and the actual shadow protector is better because it will stay on you shortly after stealth (think it refreshes too can anyone test?)that’s not gonna save you from someone with heavy aoe damage or swinging thier weapon around and landing hits on you while in stealth.

Um.. the shadow rejuv at base compassion (300 needed to get it) is only about 300-400 per pulse and the actual shadow protector is better because it will stay on you shortly after stealth (think it refreshes too can anyone test?)that’s not gonna save you from someone with heavy aoe damage or swinging thier weapon around and landing hits on you while in stealth.and against a wall or corner you can probably get 5+ leaps through your own smoke field. i agree with you on that, all those might stacks > DA tree. huge advantages over glass cannon builds.

Azraeel.1238:

Let’s see other Classes 25 minor trait in their defense line:
Mesmer: 5% of toughness = condition damage
Engineer: 10% healing is given as power
Guardian: Gain might when blocking
Necro: 5% of toughness is given as power
Ranger: 5% extra damage when health >90%
Warrior: 5% of toughness is given as power
ele: Deal more damage when health is full.

So as you can see, all of them offer extra damage, why should ours be different?

lol, any traits gives you 350+ power and 350+ condition damage while you are unseen and removes condition every 3 secs , regens 300 per sec? Minor 25 and permastealth shouldn’t be in the same trait line.

Just fyi, those stats conversion traits you listed gives you around 60-80 stats and most of them are just trash traits.

Mathias.9657:

I never said anything was OP. L2read… all I said was SA isn’t and DA gives you perma weakness/poison with shortbow and that alone gives you good survival with glancing blows. It’s how I can run in on full GC in pve and not die in seconds. Poison field will cover most of small points and can catch a whole group. You are nearly halving their damage and forcing condition removals. It can also be used in stealth without getting revealed.

Learn your class… again, SA is not overpowered. It’s just that our survival out of stealth is UNDERpowered aside from troll dodge build. What you’re missing about poison btw is that our field pulses and applies tons of weakness/poison through out the duration. Add to that the missile combo finisher from autoattack and yea that’s pretty permanent until they remove it.

You posted your opinion of why you think Stealth trait isn’t OP right? yes, check.
Then you posted about DA weakness trait w/ bow poison field and giving it praises stating, “This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.” One would think that when someone defends why something is not so, they would then lead someone to think about something else and use that as a scapegoat.

So this is how i translated your first post. “STEALTH IS NOT OP, IN FACTTTTTT BOW SPAMMING POISON WITH WEAKNESS IS!” Indirectly implying that is.

Lets get back to your quote again. “This is yet another WvW complaint, and don’t underestimate the incredibly useful AoE perma-weakness you get in DA line using shortbow.” So you Clearly implied this in wvwvw (some form of PVP). But why are you talking about this technique in PVE surroundings now? Honestly your whole argument has been disregarded the second you talked about PVE. Learn to categorize your subjects please.

People don’t care about stealth because it doesn’t affect them negatively in pve.
People care about stealth when it does in pvp. And when you look into it, some traits under stealth is just “omfgwtfunbelievable”

Oh and btw, I am learning my class, it’s always amazing how much you can learn even though you think you’ve learned all there is to it. dodge/evading is not troll, stealth is. You even got that part wrong. :9

noobftw.9654:

alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.

I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.

Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.

With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.

With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.

anet fix this pls.

Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

What a tortuous way to get might stacks. Just invest in signet burn build, hit all three with the right signet trait from crit strikes and add thrill of the crime and you always open up with 16 stacks of might and you haven’t had to go blipping around with stealth for 5 minutes beforehand.

Faeyd.5094:

noobftw.9654:

alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.

I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.

Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.

With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.

With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.

anet fix this pls.

Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

What a tortuous way to get might stacks. Just invest in signet burn build, hit all three with the right signet trait from crit strikes and add thrill of the crime and you always open up with 16 stacks of might and you haven’t had to go blipping around with stealth for 5 minutes beforehand.

to stack up 12 might it takes about 8 secs. peeps are more likely to use that after the opening when they are low on hp. I am not saying tieves being stealthy or having a reset button in pvp is wrong, when this reset button removes all your condition, resets your hp and bring back you with a load of mights which is basically impossible to be stripped (since you are permastealthed) is wrong.
Again, permastealth and minor 25 in SA shouldn’t be in the same trait line.

EIDT: and I am totally fine with signet power builds coz you give up a lot to get that 16 stack, but with SA builds you don’t give up nothing and gains condition removal/healing.

noobftw.9654:

Faeyd.5094:

noobftw.9654:

alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.

I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.

Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.

With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.

With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.

anet fix this pls.

Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

What a tortuous way to get might stacks. Just invest in signet burn build, hit all three with the right signet trait from crit strikes and add thrill of the crime and you always open up with 16 stacks of might and you haven’t had to go blipping around with stealth for 5 minutes beforehand.

to stack up 12 might it takes about 8 secs. peeps are more likely to use that after the opening when they are low on hp. I am not saying tieves being stealthy or having a reset button in pvp is wrong, when this reset button removes all your condition, resets your hp and bring back you with a load of mights which is basically impossible to be stripped (since you are permastealthed) is wrong.
Again, permastealth and minor 25 in SA shouldn’t be in the same trait line.

EIDT: and I am totally fine with signet power builds coz you give up a lot to get that 16 stack, but with SA builds you don’t give up nothing and gains condition removal/healing.

Yeah I think I’ll just take the insta-16 stacks, which apparently is not overpowered judging by your long post.

noobftw.9654:

Azraeel.1238:

Let’s see other Classes 25 minor trait in their defense line:
Mesmer: 5% of toughness = condition damage
Engineer: 10% healing is given as power
Guardian: Gain might when blocking
Necro: 5% of toughness is given as power
Ranger: 5% extra damage when health >90%
Warrior: 5% of toughness is given as power
ele: Deal more damage when health is full.

So as you can see, all of them offer extra damage, why should ours be different?

lol, any traits gives you 350+ power and 350+ condition damage while you are unseen and removes condition every 3 secs , regens 300 per sec? Minor 25 and permastealth shouldn’t be in the same trait line.

Just fyi, those stats conversion traits you listed gives you around 60-80 stats and most of them are just trash traits.

First of all, I didn’t even list what each of the classes tree line is capable of. So stating that a defensive trait line actually got some defensive characteristics is IRRELEVANT.
Second of all, have you taken the time to look at all the 25 minor traits in the thief trait lines?
DA : Deal 10% to target with condition (easily achieved)
CS: 10% increased damage when initiatives > 6
Acro: 10% increased damage when health not full (Easily achieved as well)
Trickery: Increase damage by 1% per initiative.

So where do you plan to “move” it to? I’m sorry, but I can’t see any logic with what you are saying.

Might stacks on stealth is not a problem in stealth trait. Many classes can maintain perma 15 stacks of might.

Compared to some other classes, it isn’t a big deal that thieves are able to get up to 10 might in a fight in perfect conditions with specific weapons and traits. It’s not as if thieves are overloaded with boons is it?

I really don’t see the problem here.

Just a quick look at the traits of other classes shows that most of them get minor traits that give damage of some kind.

And let’s be serious for a moment, setting up the 10 stacks of Might takes some serious effort, unless you’re willing to blow all of your initiative or use Shadow Refuge. And it’s not like 10 stacks is even that big, considering that we can get up to 22 if we decide to blow some signets and Basilisk Venom. Warriors get an easy 8 stacks, which can go up much higher with tweaking. Eles get god-knows-how-many stacks from attunement swapping with that kitten sigil.

Oh and by the way, if a Warrior goes for Might duration, they start combat with 12 stacks and go up to an average of 20+ stacks over time. With any weapon.

I didn’t mean to rile people up 0_0.. After my post the negatives started coming. I know it’s YOUR opinion. I apologize for riling peepz up.

So constant 4-6 might stacks from 25 in SA in ACTUAL COMBAT provide more damage then extra 250-300 power and 10 % extra damage passive ( when target has condition on it and it allways has) ? Made my day. I even doubt that 10 stacks is possible when chaining cnd w/o revealing yourself because in that time some stacks will simply fall off (You need 16 s to chain 5 Cnd and thats a long time. That trait gives might stacks on stealth pulse, not for time you sit in stealth).10 stacks is possible only using shadow refuge or smoke field+5 hs.
10 stacks of might = 350 extra power vs 250-300 extra power and 10% extra damage, do your math…

Karolis.4261:

So constant 4-6 might stacks from 25 in SA in ACTUAL COMBAT provide more damage then extra 250-300 power and 10 % extra damage passive ( when target has condition on it and it allways has) ? Made my day. I even doubt that 10 stacks is possible when chaining cnd w/o revealing yourself because in that time some stacks will simply fall off (You need 16 s to chain 5 Cnd and thats a long time. That trait gives might stacks on stealth pulse, not for time you sit in stealth).10 stacks is possible only using shadow refuge or smoke field+5 hs.
10 stacks of might = 350 extra power vs 250-300 extra power and 10% extra damage, do your math…

Literally every class in the game stacks might. The difference for Thieves being that they actually need to trait into Might to do it, since they have no skills or utilities that do it for them. So what are you crying about again?

noobftw.9654:

alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.

I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.

Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.

With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.

With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.

anet fix this pls.

Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.

EDIT: I am totally fine with the cleanse , permastealth , healing that comes from SA line and those traits make thief very fun to play when traited with SA. But putting permastealth and SA minor 25 trait together is just wrong, it dwarfs any other defensive trait lines of any professions. The fact that you can keep stacking might when you are still in stealth and stacking stealth time makes this trait provide more power than 30 points in DA.

OMG!!! 10 stack of might is so OP nerf this kitten to the ground!!!!

Warrior signet of rage – 5 stack of might+fury+swiftness for 30 secs. /shrug
Engi getting 20 stacks of might just by farting. /shrug
Ele geting 12 stacks of might for rotating between attunement. /shrug

Lol. Another “thief” wanting to nerf thieves. Dude, you’d have a lot more credibility if you were just honest. Just say you got pwned by a thief and are looking for help.

After maining Mesmer for gosh the last 5 months I have started on my thief again. I love the SA trait line. Any build I run has 30 in SA no matter what. is it OP? Maybe. Two traits give healing in stealth 1 gives regen the other gives straight healing.
Two stacks of might per skill that stealths you… 10 stacks? No try 20+ sustained… Its the same concept as the HgH engi take different +might duration runes and stack them each at 2 on your armor. Currently I can think of only a couple classes that go that deep into their toughness lines. Only one of the griped about bunker builds does (guards) and thieves. Mesmers don’t get enough bonus from that line. Ele’s healing power is in a different line and maybe necros go that deep into toughness but I haven’t played around with it enough to be sure…

What ANET needs to do is make each trait line viable for every class…. Make it so it is a hard choice at which line they go 30 deep into… Right now especially after the mug nerf thieves get better damage and healing by going 30 into SA and stacking might runes on their armor.

noobftw.9654:

swinsk.6410:

30SA is only a must if you want defense/sustain in a fight.

Burst includes no SA whatsoever.

It’s not OP.

When you have easy 10 stack might from this line, yes, it gives you sustain, escape and better burst than DA.

Just check out the meta burst thief builds, it’s a must.

None one is running 25 30 0 0 15 meta burst build anymore in neither pvp nor wvw.

10 stacks of might? Without much power to begin with that extraordinarily weak.

No one’s running 25 30 0 0 15? Caed ran it during the EU vs. NA match…. He’s only one of the top 3 thieves in the game…

You must not pvp much.

I don’t know about all that.

I would say the majority of Thieves I see in PVP run 25/30/0/0/15 and are typically D/D+SB. They run around pewpewing everything until cooldowns are up and health are maxed, and drop their burst combo on some unsuspecting player on the fringe of a fight. Then they are off again!

Yeah, they are everywhere.

30 SA is mostly a PvE spec…

PearlGore.7419:

30 SA is mostly a PvE spec…

With might runes and 30 into SA you can run around pvp with constant 20 stacks of might… With nothing in SA that is 3600 power easy….

jportell.2197:

PearlGore.7419:

30 SA is mostly a PvE spec…

With might runes and 30 into SA you can run around pvp with constant 20 stacks of might… With nothing in SA that is 3600 power easy….

Not sure what your point is.

PearlGore.7419:

jportell.2197:

PearlGore.7419:

30 SA is mostly a PvE spec…

With might runes and 30 into SA you can run around pvp with constant 20 stacks of might… With nothing in SA that is 3600 power easy….

Not sure what your point is.

meaning you can run 30 SA in pvp and be worth a kitten Also you don’t die in a little sneeze.

jportell.2197:

PearlGore.7419:

jportell.2197:

PearlGore.7419:

30 SA is mostly a PvE spec…

With might runes and 30 into SA you can run around pvp with constant 20 stacks of might… With nothing in SA that is 3600 power easy….

Not sure what your point is.

meaning you can run 30 SA in pvp and be worth a kitten Also you don’t die in a little sneeze.

That does not make SA OP, it makes it a good trait line. One of the best in the game infact.

PearlGore.7419:

jportell.2197:

PearlGore.7419:

jportell.2197:

PearlGore.7419:

30 SA is mostly a PvE spec…

With might runes and 30 into SA you can run around pvp with constant 20 stacks of might… With nothing in SA that is 3600 power easy….

Not sure what your point is.

meaning you can run 30 SA in pvp and be worth a kitten Also you don’t die in a little sneeze.

That does not make SA OP, it makes it a good trait line. One of the best in the game infact.

Yes ANET needs to look at other classes toughness lines… Most of them are pathetic and don’t offer anything good offense and defense wise… SA does both very well.

McFribble.2349:

Karolis.4261:

So constant 4-6 might stacks from 25 in SA in ACTUAL COMBAT provide more damage then extra 250-300 power and 10 % extra damage passive ( when target has condition on it and it allways has) ? Made my day. I even doubt that 10 stacks is possible when chaining cnd w/o revealing yourself because in that time some stacks will simply fall off (You need 16 s to chain 5 Cnd and thats a long time. That trait gives might stacks on stealth pulse, not for time you sit in stealth).10 stacks is possible only using shadow refuge or smoke field+5 hs.
10 stacks of might = 350 extra power vs 250-300 extra power and 10% extra damage, do your math…

Literally every class in the game stacks might. The difference for Thieves being that they actually need to trait into Might to do it, since they have no skills or utilities that do it for them. So what are you crying about again?

Excuse me ? Am I crying about smth here ? OP claims that SA tree (25 minor trait that gives 2x might stacks every time you enter stealth) provides more damage then DA tree, which I prove him wrong.

Why would you spam stealth to get 10 stacks of might for a backstab? In that time you could just backstab twice for more overall damage and less initiative, lmfao.

Doomdesire.9365:

Why would you spam stealth to get 10 stacks of might for a backstab? In that time you could just backstab twice for more overall damage and less initiative, lmfao.

ITs the might stacking ability OOC that makes it nice… It’s hard for other classes to do. (Ele/mes/etc) You can stack it up before you get to the first fight easy. And then do your two backstabs for more damage then well just 2 backstabs :P And it can stay up for awhile.