Guild Wars 2

I’m new to GW2 & I love playing Thief. I’ve gotten much advice for the 3 weeks I’ve been playing & have been watching top tier Thief’s play in PvP and WvW.

My question is D/P actually viable in lower ranks? It depends who I get grouped with if I win or not playing D/P so it seems. This being my first PvP season & I’ve made it up to lower Gold so far. What I’ve noticed is most the time my team isn’t focused on winning/ not focusing & targeting same players/ fighting off points/ too many on a downed target when they should be somewhere else but just wasting time. I run around de-capping, capping and +1ing, finishing off players. Sometimes it works very well and MOST the time it doesn’t and I get blame that I am lousy when I’ve only been playing 3 weeks, but I KNOW that these other players don’t know what they are talking about. I am trying to play exactly like Sindrener. I’ve played games where I’m easily getting all the points, but my team is just fighting off point somewhere or all at home and we are losing. When I play Condi thief or Staff I usually have a higher chance of winning, especially Condi and I don’t like playing those builds. With those builds I have very high dmg and can 1v1 and take a cap point easily. I just don’t like playing like that.

I want to climb the ranks. Should I not play D/P at lower ranks?
ALSO I know this is situational, but good thief’s don’t go home, right? I am constantly blamed after telling the team I’m not going home(because someone will come and steal the point and I can’t 1v1 as well with d/p or hold it I will just run or it takes too long to kill and basically a waste of time)

Please experienced players only.

D/P is the most viable set for a Thief to be used. No matter the what ranks you use it in. Also, weapon set/ build is not to be blamed for your teams performance. When your team is not giving you room to play the way you are supposed to play then nothing will fix hit.
About the other sets: You said that the Condi one allows you to 1v1, but generally you shouldn’t waste time 1v1ing. Such build will only prevent you from doing your Thief job to its full extent.
About Close at start, what you say is true not true =D Enemy usually comes your Close in 10 matches out of 100, Atleast in my matches, if they do you can insta bail and quickly decide the fight at mid. But otherwise it is not a mistake if you go Mid at start, dmg spike is useful ans team stealth too. Far, in the other hand, is something else. Going Far alone would be a great mistake as it is the same as of you went Close with the exception of that you will waste much more time, and propably your life, too. I strongly suggest going Far only with. Duo-Que mate, or if your team wishes to use Close/Far strategy.

D/P works fine in lower ranks (i landed last season for some reason in low gold and farmed my way to plat with 100% winrate as generic dp DD with some tweaks). D/P generally is very versatile set for pvp hence why it was always meta. However, you cannot play like Sind (regardless the rating) when you play solo or/and lower ranks simply because you do not have support of teammates like he does (hello Misha).

The tweaks (withdraw instead of vigor, refuge for teammates and myself + lifesteal instead of blinding powder, improvisation for double plasma etc.) i talked about are aimed at less roaming and more fighting because as said i play alone (thus no team support) and can’t rely on team to actually defend points so i end up in 1v1 situations that i have to win more than i should as a thief tbh. If you are decent at thief it shouldn’t be much issue in low ranks as people there are generally not as experienced/don’t have necessary reflexes/muscle memory so they can lose to thief on classes that actually counter thief.

That being said, if you want to faceroll in low ranks, play condi d/d. At low ranks players are usually not as good as timing which is biggest enemy of condi d/d. Once again, however that build is very spoiling, imo, and i personally don’t think it would force you to get better at thief.

Lastly, not trying to be offensive to anyone, but general rule (regardless which class you play): always assume your teammates are mindless bots with 0 map awareness and understanding of pvp.

Cynz.9437:

Lastly, not trying to be offensive to anyone, but general rule (regardless which class you play): always assume your teammates are mindless bots with 0 map awareness and understanding of pvp.

^ Pretty much this. The way I see thief, you need to create at least a constant 5v4 situation in your favour. This way you can transform idiots in your team into good players

D/P, as stated by the guys above, is the best option on thief for pvp (Not to say you can’t play other sets to a decent level if you’re dedicated and skilled enough but objectively it gives you the most bang for your buck).
When it comes to soloq there’s a very big thing most people don’t get but cynz hit it pretty well: Meta builds are not always the best hyper carry builds. This is because the meta builds are made to be the most optimal when played well together. If you can’t rely on your team to do anything then what’s the use of supporting them? Bring tools to make the game more winnable for you and give yourself the best chance to carry the match solo but still bring maybe 1 or 2 skills for clutch save the day plays to help give you enough momentum to carry.

1v1 as a thief is not really of any importance as unless you win the fight in less than 10 seconds you are getting more for your team by +1ing a fight or getting an empty point if there is one.

Going home imo is the best option for thief at the start. You basi your team before you go and it still gives them the potential for heavy cc openings onto a target for a quick kill but then you can take home and let the teamfighting builds do their thing. Far point rushes are less common and I normally only see them when there’s a ballsy player on a team who wants to try and carry by soloing far all game. In that scenario it’s easy to just rotate mid, win the 5v3 and then snowball to home and far. If no rush occurs then you get the cap, rotate quickly to mid and ideally jump onto a target that’s already been selected and deal the finishing blow to take him down, cleave him out and then either clean up the fight or rotate far for a decap. The nice thing about that opening is it always gives you a way to move so that you can turn the game to your favor.

Rather than build is how you can leverage it.

Take home if the other team isn’t too mobile. You will get to mid before the other team’s home player and spike some damage where it needs to be.

If the other team is more mobile and vulnerable to 1v1, support at mid (call targets and dps) while a heavier point fighter grabs home. Let the enemy have far until they run to support mid—slip behind them with stealth and decap the point 5-10 seconds after they take it.

And be prepared to tell your team what to do. If you win at mid and home and your team is behind, tell them to hold. Just hold. So often people lose a match because two go far and one home to stop decap. Then a enemy bunker holds far while your ally fails to stop decap and their team goes 3v2 at mid and focuses your ally. Stay calm and guide them to victiry if you can. *if

I play s/d and s/p, and i have sine the start basically. I fight alot of d/p and condi thieves. I likefighting a good d/p because it is challenging. There are many benfits feom both s/d and d/p but i think alot comes to preference. If your not good at back stabbing your not going to play dagger oh. If your not good at dazing your not going to play s/p. Also alot of pugs complain about thieves but if you know your place dont worry bout thhose that bm. You have the most mobility as a thief so if you see a team with out a thief you have that advantage and you should use it.

Huge benefit from s/d is extreme boon hate (One of the many benefits mysto was talking about). It allows you to grow in power off of the many boon reliant builds in the meta while also allowing your allies to do significantly more damage by stripping stability and prot from targets. However, it’s a bit less aggressive and bursty than it’s d/p counterpart. D/p promotes a heavily aggressive playstyle by sticking to the targets and dealing heavy damage while s/d has a bit less damage but is more slippery and has a ton of debuffs which directly support you and indirectly support the team. D/p is significantly better at fighting other thieves due to its on demand stealth option and blinds allowing for counterpressure (plus shadow shot allowing you to stick to the thief can force them out of the game pretty easily). So if you see an enemy thief I’d go d/p. Imo, if there’s no opposing thief s/d is your best option because it hangs in fights better and eats enemy boons easily (plus the lack of opposing thief pressure allows you to essentially freecast which allows you to do damage comparable or sometimes greater than d/p offers in a match) but that part is mostly preference as I’ve had both work and played a ton on both sets.

I was a skeptic, then I tried D/P Thief, back in 2013.

It is tiring, you have to pay attention to everything, and you can’t mess up. You mess up, your team is 4v5. If you don’t, you create 4v5.

At a certain level around average, players can’t fend off the stealth spike a Thief does. But once you play one you will know the resource you have to spike someone is very tightly limited because you’ll never have full initiative and the enemy Thief’s presence is great pressure on you to do your job.

Sure you can always stealth off and not die, but this isn’t WvW Shadow Arts Thief. You have to make an impact aside from decapping and you have to secure +1 kills.

Good thieves are admirable, bad thieves are disgusting. No class is so extreme…

Maybe one day I’ll sit myself down to learn Thief again, but boy will the learning be like walking on Salt Road with bleeding feet.

Best advice to the OP is to just keep at it. It takes a lot longer than 3 weeks to get fully proficient with thief, but it will happen and you will be glad you stuck with it. Don’t go condi or staff, no matter the temptation. If possible find another player to duo with like mesmer who knows what they are doing (or who is at least eager to improve) and practice coordinating your bursts and rotations to play off your strengths. And keep learning from Sind. His videos have so much good advice, they are really a godsend for learning thieves. Best of luck.

Sadly, as a former thief main who didn’t really enjoy D/P, I tried many alternatives, but D/P is just the best set for thief. You can play other weapons in lower tiers. (almost all are viable) But if you practice D/P you’ll surpass your limits with other sets. Each set does have it’s own strengths, but D/P is good at: surprise attacks (+1), burst (not the highest though), disengaging, some mobility (so you don’t need to swap to shortbow always), interrupts, gap closers. It really brings everything a thief needs for the +1 role, while leaving you the option to run shortbow with your other weapon to allow for easy decaps. All the other weapons lose something to gain a stronger attribute somewhere else, but they always lose something key.

Staff: strong burst, no interrupts, weaker on disengaging, less sneakiness (bad for +1), some evades to stay in the fray. (which only works on some comps)
P/D: Does this exist in pvp? Okay, you can probably make this work in the very lowest tiers.
D/D: Condi spam, can actually be annoying enough to reach high tiers. It has dodges like mad, limited stealth, and some mobility. It’s truly a silly set, but it can solo lord 1v3… It’s practically impossible to save lord from a good one.
P/P: Great burst, range, awkward stealth access, interrupts, no mobility.
S/P: Great burst, mobile (to other players and back with skill 2), evades (easy to exploit at higher levels), decent disengages, interrupts. It lacks easy stealth access and the surprise burst of D/P. The burst is more similar to P/P, but easier to avoid.
S/D: Evades, sustain, some stealth, similar disengages to S/P.

As you can see, the only set which has interrupts, good stealth, burst and mobility is D/P. The set gives you amazing +1 potential, which is thieves only role in conquest. (But again, some manage with annoying far capper on d/d or lord slayer with the same build) I’d say if you had to play something other than D/P in low tiers, I’d try D/D. Just run far and spam 3.

Thanks for all the feedback from everybody. Truly very helpful.

Why bother with d/p (are you a masochist or one of those super skilled guys)? Play d/d condi “perma” evasion = free win for your team. You just can’t loose any 1 vs 1 as d/d + p/d(sb) Thief. Even p/p builds work better then d/p.
People always like to put more and more effort into everything. Why would you drive a car, if you can run. And since d/d is too easy why don’t we all play meta d/p build with zero survivability? I really don’t get all these d/p thieves jumping in the middle of the fight and dying 3 sec later … What do they want to prove???

Hahaha if you wait like 15 secs when fighting a condi thief they are done. 3-5 dodges and they blow all of thier initiative. Plus you can intterupt right before blossom and stun lock. Too easy. 1 stun and done. Might be good againts d/p but i wouldnt know cause i dont play d/p

Mystogan.4157:

Hahaha if you wait like 15 secs when fighting a condi thief they are done. 3-5 dodges and they blow all of thier initiative.

And how do you “wait” for 15 seconds? If you just run away for that time = no initiative spend:) Not all classes can dodge 3 -5 times within 15 seconds.
Also this thread is about lower ranks, where condi Thieves are op as hell.

Sifu.9745:

Mystogan.4157:

Hahaha if you wait like 15 secs when fighting a condi thief they are done. 3-5 dodges and they blow all of thier initiative.

And how do you “wait” for 15 seconds? If you just run away for that time = no initiative spend:) Not all classes can dodge 3 -5 times within 15 seconds.
Also this thread is about lower ranks, where condi Thieves are op as hell.

Necro – condi xfers, wells, marks etc. work well vs condi thieves, DH can just drop their traphell and it will murder thief within second (not to mention they have plenty of condi cleanse), ele with shocking aura can just facetank condi thief. Just examples. But then again, as i said, in low ranks people tend not to time their spells or use them in proper order which plays into condi thief hands.

Sifu.9745:

Why bother with d/p (are you a masochist or one of those super skilled guys)? Play d/d condi “perma” evasion = free win for your team. You just can’t loose any 1 vs 1 as d/d + p/d(sb) Thief. Even p/p builds work better then d/p.
People always like to put more and more effort into everything. Why would you drive a car, if you can run. And since d/d is too easy why don’t we all play meta d/p build with zero survivability? I really don’t get all these d/p thieves jumping in the middle of the fight and dying 3 sec later … What do they want to prove???

Why do you assume every d/p thief does it? As said, d/p is very versatile and if you use it properly it has way more impact on match outcome than d/d condi will ever have. Not to mention d/p is viable vs decent opponents, d/d will just feed points.
Imo, if you want to improve as thief, you shouldn’t be playing condi d/d – it won’t force you to improve, if anything it it spoils players, imo, makes them worry less about proper dodging, timing of spells, resource management etc.

Sifu.9745:

Why bother with d/p (are you a masochist or one of those super skilled guys)? Play d/d condi “perma” evasion = free win for your team. You just can’t loose any 1 vs 1 as d/d + p/d(sb) Thief. Even p/p builds work better then d/p.
People always like to put more and more effort into everything. Why would you drive a car, if you can run. And since d/d is too easy why don’t we all play meta d/p build with zero survivability? I really don’t get all these d/p thieves jumping in the middle of the fight and dying 3 sec later … What do they want to prove???

Because Death Blossom has a 1/4 second window in which the thief can do absolutely nothing, locked into the animation, and good players will hit the thief in that window and murder them. D/D is a rather crappy gimmick of a playstyle. But it does work on low ranks.

D/D condition does work best against lower ranks and IS vulnerable in that evade frame where well times attacks can just shut him down. The style does not in my opinion allow enough flexibility when the enemy able to pressure via those types of attacks.

P/d condition is much more effective as the bulk of conditions applied at range and it has shadowstrike for port aways. It also has on demand immobs. P/d thief #2 is a very effective skill especially if significant durations traited. P/d also tends towards having more INI available given AA used a lot meaning it can use stealth for target drop and relocation much more easily.

For the /d/d user to address those shortcomings it my opinion they have to trait into some healing so that this can be used in conjunction with SOM and the deathblossoms to provide it some sort of edge on the sustain side when the evades are compromised.

P/D is effective. But few people bother to learn it because the skill required to make it work is higher than D/D which is what most people treat as entry level condi thief.

As babaz said, the advantage is in on demand immobilize and kiting mobility with shadowstrike. The damage is better than D/D with the disadvantage of being projectile based (reflect and LoS issues).

I’d say that, given the build variety available, meta is mainly D/P by convention and practice than being the hands down winning in all sPvP situations.

Sifu.9745:

Mystogan.4157:

Hahaha if you wait like 15 secs when fighting a condi thief they are done. 3-5 dodges and they blow all of thier initiative.

And how do you “wait” for 15 seconds? If you just run away for that time = no initiative spend:) Not all classes can dodge 3 -5 times within 15 seconds.
Also this thread is about lower ranks, where condi Thieves are op as hell.

Condi remove. Your stacking two conditions high stacks. I use s/d and s/p which has a built in condi remove… plus blocks immune resistance. Goold luckwith condi revs or res warriors

In many ways p/d is to condition builds as d/p is to power builds. What I mean here is all of the skills are used to an extent. Contrast that with Condition d/d as example where one of the skills used 90 percent of the time.

Not to nitpick too much, but I think P/D’s skill-usage distribution plays more like D/D power, and D/D condi plays more like P/P power.

Skills 2/4 on P/D and 3/4 on D/D power are situational with “bread and butter” damage sources being 5/1/3 and 5/1/2, respectively, however the other skills on both are strong when used at the right time. Both kits can be strong but are pretty dependent on things like the matchup and fight states than anything else.

D/D condi and P/P power typically just mash 3 with the occasional use of 4/5 and AA’s, deal asinine amounts of damage for how easy they are, and are quite forgiving to play given their relative simplicity, while both taper off at higher skill levels given their counters lying in their same moments as their strengths.

D/P has all of its skills always used heavily and rarely are any of the options wasteful when it comes to initiative or killing potential outside of blatantly-obvious poor decision-making. It’s not that it’s implicitly easier or better (granted I personally think this after years of playing D/D power with solid success) but it’s just so much more consistent, when helps a lot when you can’t change builds in the middle of a match and are mostly there to + 1, to which it objectively offers the best surprise ganks given BP + HS sustained stealth.

DeceiverX.8361:

Not to nitpick too much, but I think P/D’s skill-usage distribution plays more like D/D power, and D/D condi plays more like P/P power.

Skills 2/4 on P/D and 3/4 on D/D power are situational with “bread and butter” damage sources being 5/1/3 and 5/1/2, respectively, however the other skills on both are strong when used at the right time. Both kits can be strong but are pretty dependent on things like the matchup and fight states than anything else. This more pronounced if you fight with a group in that immobs on an enemy can be a death sentence as allies focus and down the same.

D/D condi and P/P power typically just mash 3 with the occasional use of 4/5 and AA’s, deal asinine amounts of damage for how easy they are, and are quite forgiving to play given their relative simplicity, while both taper off at higher skill levels given their counters lying in their same moments as their strengths.

D/P has all of its skills always used heavily and rarely are any of the options wasteful when it comes to initiative or killing potential outside of blatantly-obvious poor decision-making. It’s not that it’s implicitly easier or better (granted I personally think this after years of playing D/D power with solid success) but it’s just so much more consistent, when helps a lot when you can’t change builds in the middle of a match and are mostly there to + 1, to which it objectively offers the best surprise ganks given BP + HS sustained stealth.

You do not play p/d if you claim 2 situational. I use it more then any skill outside the AA. The only skill I really do not use a lot in p/d is 4 and this because there many sources of cripple.. If I contrast p/d with d/p I use #2 in p/d more then I use HS #2 in d/p.

Using #2 I get on p/d I get 3 seconds Immob, and 5 stacks vuln lasting just under 6 seconds. A few of those stacked can lock down the mobilty of a lot of builds and allow for more effective AA and sneak attacks let alone swap to SB for some Choking gas. It is also a very cheap skill INI wise.

Since I also use traps with trapper runes I do not have to rely on CnD and Sneak attack as much meaning I can use #2 for the immob , stealth at range realtively easily for no INI cost and load up the sneak attack. When an enemy at melee while I can certainly try a CnD followed by sneak attack, I prefer shadowstrike away, trap drop and Sneak attack. Steal in for another stealth and sneak attack with boon theft and shadowstrike away again. That trap still sits there if he pursues.

Since immob also prevents turning you can prevent a whole lot of damage simply by doing an immob then moving behind the target. This works great against the DH as example given the class does not have a lot in the way of direct Immob breaks and also a lot of skills that are front facing.

I also like that if traited DA p/d users now have relatively easy poison access this again via number two if panic strike chosen.

Yes but you do not utilize #2 as your primary source of damage to actively win a fight. You use it for dodge denial, preventing a gap from being closed, and damage ramp, just as a good D/D power thief uses DB several times a fight to avoid incoming large attacks rather than burning the dodge.

Unless you never enter stealth with D/P, you likely use them about the same. Stealth should be maintained almost fully when not in combat when playing D/P to enjoy gank unpredictability when moving around the map. It’s a big reason why D/P and Blinding Powder (and Refuge beforehand) have been used so much at the highest levels of play for so long.

The stray from CnD/SA is build-specific and like D/D power, something only likely really utilized once or twice per fight per enemy with the bulk of the overall damage of the fight coming from other sources.

Like D/D, you wouldn’t use a number of skills in various contexts or are weak in others (reflect/projectile hate etc.) but can exploit weaknesses extremely well when they open up. That’s the big gain to D/P and why it’s always been dominant; it has an answer for virtually everything while retaining good purpose in every skill it has through its kit diversity.

A direct comparison skill for skill to show why p/d “plays out” more like d/p then d/d power.

1>Skill one, across all three sets as main source of damage.

2>Skill 2. There nothing like HS in p/d which has no sudden spike damage predicated on health of enemy that can rival damage output of the AA. At the same time as mentioned HS in the d/p set is used primarily to stealth which is a means by which damage ramped for the next attack. in this respect HS in d/p plays closer to Body shot which is used for same reasons. Stealth is also a defensive measure and in the p/d set immob is a defensive measure. As such p/d body shot is more closely aligned with heartseeker in d/p.

3>In power D/D this purely an evade with no real damage . It provides condition cleanses along with added health , vigor and the like and any other provided benefits of on evade traits. in p/d this a port away as this set primarily a ranged set. There no evade in the port. There nothing to be gained in this set via on evade traits because like d/p there no skill that provides on evade. In P/d it also provides damage much like Shadowshot provides damage. As such this plays out much close rto d/p then d/d power. (that one a port away with damage applied and a disabling effect while the other a port to with damag applied and a disabling effect is because one generally a ranged set and one a melee set.)

4>Obviously the cripple is the cripple , but unlike d/d power which generally uses this as pursuit in p/d this not used as much due to other sources of cripple and while the damge in power sets can be significant, it is not in a condition set.

5>Black powder is used in d/p as a defensive measure, that being to apply a condition blind that allows for mitigation of damage at melee , and as a means by whch stealth achived both for defense and to ramp up a backstab. This used in conjunction with HS plays out very much the same way as p/d skill 2. The only real difference is it is seperated across two skills. The use of p/d body shot not only provides defense but will directly lead to higher damage off the AA. As such the three sets use 5 for very much the same reasons.

When traiting up if we discount the obvious power related traits versus the condition related traits (ie d/d power and d/p power both likely to take executioner over potent poison) d/p and p/d will take many of the same traits given the fact there no “on evade” weapon skills in the respective sets. if we look at Acro as example it serves a d/d power set much better then a p/d condition set or a d/p power set simply because the only real evades those two get are dodges which are simply not used as much

You can’t compare skill kit similarity by what is in their skill slots. Your basis for your argument would suggest that if there were another kit which had the exact same skills as P/D just in mixed order, it’d be nothing like P/D, despite being the literal equivalent. Your reflection needs to account for all utility of all skills and in their respective use-cases as a response to combat in what type of encounters. P/D and D/D have a lot of similarities given how they need to play and in their overall consistency. If P/D rivaled D/P’s consistency it’d have been played and have been dominant from the getgo.

A good D/D player will tell you HS is not a primary source of damage but a secondary source when it calls specifically for its use as a damage and gap close tool. P/D has no “burst” because it doesn’t “burst” conditions on one button except for steal. P/D via Sneak Attack and Shadow Stike do have power burst tools because those two abilities, paired with CnD, offer substantial coefficients, which before the AA buff, were playable as power (a guildmember and I both ran P/D power for a period of several years/several months respectively and had zero issues). It’s a functionally-worse version of shadow shot for an overwhelming majority of all fights while providing no bonus utility. The finisher damage-case is almost irrelevant, and the skill when used properly is used almost entirely for the mobility and utility (ignoring cripple/chill etc.) it provides. If you want damage on D/D, you don’t waste it on HS unless you can on the fly calculate exactly what you need when, but that’s almost arbitrary given the boon generation in the game at the moment. Even D/P does not utilize the skill except to leap BP because Shadow Shot in almost all cases is more consistent while offering superior or similar damage and provides extra utility via the blind while also traveling further and faster as a gap closer. Shadow Shot is better than Body Shot and Heartseeker, and further, very few thieves playing D/P utilize Backstab because it’s a damage loss versus just AA’ing and Shadow Shot. HS is almost strictly a utility tool at this point on MH dagger.

Again, use case measure here. Shadow Shot is utilized only when the thief wishes to engage. DB and SStrike can be used as defensive, escape, and supplementary tools. DB’s not used to proc dodge effects but to dodge incoming damage itself and/or provide a reposition, however small its movement effect is. Even still, it’s more comparable to Body Shot as a measure of utility per fight (powerful when necessary, not good when not necessary) with HS better-aligned to correspond with the utility from SStrike, which is variable in use and both can be used as defensive and offensive tools. The only similarity which makes SStrike closer to SShot is its power coefficient.

DDagger is unreliable in power kits as a source of chase potential and is best-mixed with HS to account for a difference in mobility faster than depending on cripple. The damage is poor in both kits and frankly I find myself using this only for its AoE potential to clear mesmer clones, get tags for bloodlust stacks, and pop proc effects from range (guardian aegis and other passives). Rarely is the skill actually worthwhile to use outside of offering a potential solution to some problem in a fight; usually when DDagger is used, the entire bar of initiative is dumped using it because all other skills cannot be used at the time nor for the forseeable future. Other use cases like downed heal interruption are shared between both kits in regards to its utility.

Your argument for skill 5 is identical to Backstab as providing defensive and offensive utility and represents a core part of D/D power’s and P/D condi’s usability in respects to bursting targets down. Headshot is a closer comparison to Body Shot than BP+HS. Once again, power D/P does not use backstab for damage unless it’s guaranteed, as it otherwise wastes time and initiative and better damage is achieved via other skills. The BP+HS combo when against top players is largely used for stealth solely for utility rather than any offensive pressure due to backstab’s damage losses and punishable attack ICD.

This is a stupid argument, though. P/D isn’t consistent enough and in most cases does not fill the role of the thief in the context of the meta (past and present) as well to be compared to D/P. The kit may be strong in the right hands, and in the right hands, like D/D power, can be played much above peoples’ initial expectations of the capabilities of the set, but that does not make it even remotely in the same region of competitiveness.

@deceiverx

Head shot being closer to body shot? How? Do you even play p/d? You are not interrupting with body shot. You are not applying a PI. You are setting the person up for follow up attacks. Head shot is not doing this.

Poor response all round which did nothing to refute my points. You rely on the old “d/p does more damage and is a favored set at higher levels” which has NOTHING to do with my points.

I am not comparing damage output. I am illustrating how various skills used in a set. d/d power does not play out like P/d in this regard. Why do you even bring “it not in the meta” into the argument?

The reason D/P are so strong are because it have everything: interrupt/stun, easy access to stealth, gap closers, high damage burst and blinds. As our role are primarily roaming it is amazing. We can hold our own pretty good and can disengage if things get hairy.