Guild Wars 2

Revealed training is good for PVE, it is however out-shined by Panic Strike in PVP/WvW.

I think two changes would make it a more suitable option for PVP/WvW whilst retaining it’s functionality in PVE.

a.) Rework the +200 power bonus to rather give 7 stacks of Might (210 Power).This does two things. It synergizes better with certain runes like Runes of Strength and boon duration foods, etc. Also adds some counter play (susceptible to boon stealing/corrupting).

Might stacking is something thieves have been missing since the removal of the might on stealth minor trait in the old SA line. I feel this change I propose would make it less passive, since you only gain might on exiting stealth instead of sitting in stealth.

b.) Also give either Resistance boon or Protection boon ( I know Protection has been suggested a few times before). Giving ourselves some counter to all the reveal skills/traits other classes are getting.

Your thoughts?

I like the straight power increase better because boons can be stolen by some classes. Wouldn’t want our own traits to be used against us.

I think introducing reveal resistance and scaling it with precision and healing power would be a good idea.

I would rather just see better synergy with just actually fighting in revealed than one trait. I was hoping what is the Daredevil would have played with this concept heavily as to promote use of this trait. Bonuses in general to being revealed would be a nifty concept, especially given a way to stack it without the need to enter stealth, as this would put a lot of clever play requirements on the thief and would stop the frequent get-out-of-jail-free stealth complaints we so often get as a result from a very stale meta and lack of other viable options.

RT on boons though, is an idea that while seemingly good would ultimately hurt a lot more than it should. As a might-stacking thief, I find myself losing my might stacks very quickly in a fight if my target is not dead immediately, otherwise BT is needed for a steal-back, but that’s usually blown on engage to proc thrill for the fury, and I run Trickster, anyways, due to limited removal options available to builds which stack might.

Resistance after revealed would be great. D/D thieves are hard countered by s/f eles (blind mostly), not being able to hit cloak&dagger is a pain…

Revealed training changes ‘revealed’ to a condition instead.

godmoney.6025:

Revealed training is good for PVE, it is however out-shined by Panic Strike in PVP/WvW.

If you’re only talking about D/P, sure that’s true, but if you’re talking about all Thief builds in general, then you’re wrong.

a.) Rework the +200 power bonus to rather give 7 stacks of Might (210 Power).This does two things. It synergizes better with certain runes like Runes of Strength and boon duration foods, etc. Also adds some counter play (susceptible to boon stealing/corrupting).

I don’t think so. This will only give the opposition ammunitions to take out the Thief. Necro is already a PITA and you want to give them more ammunition?

We don’t need any more counter play, that’s what Reveal is there for. You’re basically saying that attacking from stealth gives the opposition 2 counter plays: Revealed debuff + boon strip. Why not just insta-kill the Thief?

Might stacking is something thieves have been missing since the removal of the might on stealth minor trait in the old SA line. I feel this change I propose would make it less passive, since you only gain might on exiting stealth instead of sitting in stealth.

If you really think that we need might stacks, then the Dev probably need to give us more baseline damage so that we don’t have to rely on traits to actually matter.

The Thief class should shoudn’t have to rely on buffs, that play style should be reserved for Guardians. The main issue here is that the Devs have lost track on what they want Thief to do, just look at the Thief’s Elite Spec if you want an example.

b.) Also give either Resistance boon or Protection boon ( I know Protection has been suggested a few times before). Giving ourselves some counter to all the reveal skills/traits other classes are getting.

I rather have the Dev allow stackable Blind so that I don’t have to rely on boons for survivability.

If Cloak in Shadow applies 5 stacks of Blind for 5s (each attack removes a stack), then we don’t need a lot of buffs for survivability.

Also they need to fix our skills animation especially the skills that allows us to evade starting by removing the pre-cast delays and casting time on all of them. This delay is very noticeable with Death Blossom.

They should really start by fixing our current skills (i.e. animation, pre-cast delay, after-cast delay, rooting, non-intteruptable skills, etc.) before tweaking anymore traits.

I think taking the current Revealed Training trait and adding Protection and/or Resistance to it is a good idea. However…

Kevin.5980:

Revealed training changes ‘revealed’ to a condition instead.

This is a brilliant idea. I hope someone at ANet is listening

Sir Vincent III.1286:

They should really start by fixing our current skills (i.e. animation, pre-cast delay, after-cast delay, rooting, non-intteruptable skills, etc.) before tweaking anymore traits.

The two are so interrelated, though. Certain potentially useful skills are hindered by poor trait choices or vice versa. Really, we need a thorough look-see overall, but I’d take a revamp of traits OR skills at this point.

Amante.8109:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

They should really start by fixing our current skills (i.e. animation, pre-cast delay, after-cast delay, rooting, non-intteruptable skills, etc.) before tweaking anymore traits.

The two are so interrelated, though. Certain potentially useful skills are hindered by poor trait choices or vice versa.

I didn’t say “instead of” so I’m not sure what you’re implying.

Really, we need a thorough look-see overall, but I’d take a revamp of traits OR skills at this point.

We don’t need a “revamp”, what we need is a genuinely and honest profession fix. The timing has to play smoothly and they need to flow properly. If they can do that, Thief players will know how to protect themselves without the needs for buffs.

The way I see it is, they want to buff other sections of the profession because they either don’t know how to fix it or didn’t really care on fixing it or for some other reason not known to us. Whatever the reasons are, the fact remains that the reason why D/P is popular it’s not really about the numbers that they can tweak, but rather that the weapon set really flows properly and plays smoothly.

So if they focus on fixing the flow and play of the Thief, they may not even need to tweak any of the numbers nor do they need to give Thief buffs.

It’s easier to make shallow number buffs/nerfs than it is deep mechanical changes, especially on a tight timetable (as MMO expansions always are). Unfortunately, Thief needs some deep mechanical changes, so we’ll probably be stuck in this state for a while.

If they do want to throw out some numbers, though, I’ll take a few thousand more base HP so I don’t just instantly explode the moment dodges and Shadowstep are down in SPvP. Thanks ANet

Amante.8109:

It’s easier to make shallow number buffs/nerfs than it is deep mechanical changes… and Thief needs some deep mechanical changes. Unfortunately, we’ll probably be stuck in this state for a while.

Exactly! They take the easy lazy route when it comes to Thieves yet they are willing to make drastic mechanical change for the Warriors (see the Elite Adrenaline bar).

The imbalance in terms of attention is as plain as day.

If they do want to just throw out some numbers, though, I’ll take a few thousand more base HP so I don’t instantly explode the moment dodges and Shadowstep are down. Thanks ANet

Don’t be complacent to their lazy solutions else we’ll never see genuine and honest change.

Like the saying goes; “If you’re satisfied when someone throw you a bone, that’s all you’re going to get.”

Well, there’s scales of changes they can make. For Thieves to truly be whole again, the profession needs some deep work for sure. That said, I’d rather they implement some smaller scale fixes in the meantime—like more core durability from higher base HP— rather than continuing to do absolutely nothing. They could stand to be more communicative, too.

Sometimes I think they’re afraid to buff or even talk to us in small ways, lest 1> we perceive it to not be enough and 2> the rest of the community flips out with their usual “omg anet y u buff alredy op teef” nonsense. Still…

Amante.8109:

Well, there’s scales of changes they can make. For Thieves to truly be whole again, the profession needs some deep work for sure. That said, I’d rather they implement some smaller scale fixes in the meantime—like more core durability from higher base HP— rather than continuing to do absolutely nothing. They could stand to be more communicative, too.

The problem with that approach is that they will need to nerf it once they’ve finished the fixes. I rather see them make the fixes then see if they really need to adjust any of the numbers.

Besides, increasing the base HP means nothing if the damage from everything else increases too. What the Thief need is to be unshackled and to be allowed to use their active damage mitigation unhindered by casting time and pre-/post-cast delays.

Sometimes I think they’re afraid to buff or even talk to us in small ways, lest 1> we perceive it to not be enough

The fact is, they have no idea how the Thief works.

How can you talk about something you have no knowledge of?

The best thing they can do is listen and not do whatever they want even though what they are doing destroys the “fun” out of the profession.

…and 2> the rest of the community flips out with their usual “omg anet y u buff alredy op teef” nonsense. Still…

That’s why they need to stop tweaking numbers and start fixing the mechanic so that the profession plays properly and flows smoothly.

It should give pulsing 1 second of protection, resistance, and +200 power while revealed.