Guild Wars 2

Make us blink out of Stealth for 1/4 of a second every two or three seconds.
Kind of like Predator does in the movies right before revealing himself out of his camouflage.

Discuss.

What is the purpose of this?

Thief needs to be nerfed. Only those of Zhaitan’s descent will disagree. If you EVER propose a Thief buff, you shall become Risen. From there Jormag will fuse his Iceborn into your blood and you will become a Supercreep. Enjoy your new life, Zhaimag Minion.

The root of all our problems are those who QQ about Stealth — they need to be silenced once and for all. No QQ = no problem.

So nerf thief more even though it’s the worst class in the game atm, and not let the QQers learn that they need to learn how to play against a class that stealths, which would be bettering the community and creating smarter players?

Alchemyst, you ZHAIMAG! =P

Stealth is not the problem; Mesmer actually does it BETTER right now and they’re one of the top three professions in PvP.

For whatever reason, ANet seemingly can’t figure out what to do with Thief, apparently because of the Initiative system and Shortbow #5. These are fixable problems, but unfortunately they seem to have no intention of doing so.

Amante.8109:

These are fixable problems, but unfortunately they seem to have no intention of doing so.

The intent is there for sure, but they simply don’t know how. They believe that EA is powerful enough and it shouldn’t be baseline.

What I’m saying is: make stealth blink so QQers can’t complain about not finding us anymore and give us what we need. I personally wouldn’t mind blinking if that results in a fair treatment compared with the other professions.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Amante.8109:

These are fixable problems, but unfortunately they seem to have no intention of doing so.

The intent is there for sure, but they simply don’t know how. They believe that EA is powerful enough and it shouldn’t be baseline.

I wouldn’t call a hastily thrown together elite specialization “intent” to fix our profession. Elite specs for everyone is a bullet point on the back of the expansion box that they HAVE to deliver, or they’re guilty of false advertising.

Everything about Daredevil reeks of a hasty band-aid meant to hold Thief over through another 2-3 years of no attention. Where is the love and attention most other professions are getting? Is it really so hard to find a single design lead that is PASSIONATE about Rogue archetypes?

Thief is not the worst class; however, it isn’t close to being the best either. People calling for thief nerfs are overreacting to a learning curve. Thief needs to be moved in a positive direction to regain some of the distinction it has lost.

MakubeC.3026:

What I’m saying is: make stealth blink so QQers can’t complain about not finding us anymore and give us what we need. I personally wouldn’t mind blinking if that results in a fair treatment compared with the other professions.

There is no amount of nerfing that will make QQers happy when it comes to Thief. That’s why we’re in this position in the first place… people complained loudly about Thief and ANet continued to listen to them.

Is this your first time playing a rogue class in a MMO? Sadly, they tend to be hated by players, because of stealth, high burst, or other things casual players don’t like going against. Worse, they tend to be ignored by the people on the development side, whom for whatever reason never seem to be passionate about rogue classes (or able to find a single person with design experience who is).

If the QQers had their way, Thief would be EVEN WEAKER than it is right now. Please consider that in the future before suggesting arbitrary nerfs to the few things still keeping us playable at all.

Cecilia.5179:

Thief is not the worst class; however, it isn’t close to being the best either. People calling for thief nerfs are overreacting to a learning curve. Thief needs to be moved in a positive direction to regain some of the distinction it has lost.

Thief is the second weakest profession at worst. Nothing other than Ranger really comes close. I feel bad for those guys having the last elite specialization revealed, because it’ll definitely get less dev-time than it needs as a result. Kind of like our elite spec…

My idea is better:

1.) Find player QQing about thief.
2.) Find out their main’s profession.
3.) Get on said profession.
4.) Kill player QQing about thief with their own profession.
5.) ??
6.) PROFIT

yolo swaggins.2570:

My idea is better:

1.) Find player QQing about thief.
2.) Find out their main’s profession.
3.) Get on said profession.
4.) Kill player QQing about thief with their own profession.
5.) ??
6.) PROFIT

That won’t have any effect.
They might even start crying that the thief as the ability to swap professions in stealth (like you login out, and them not seeing you do that.,.. yeah… dumb I know, but I think they will believe that)

alchemyst.2165:

So nerf thief more even though it’s the worst class in the game atm, and not let the QQers learn that they need to learn how to play against a class that stealths, which would be bettering the community and creating smarter players?

Lol, worst class? You have unparalelled mobility, burst and can control 1on1s at will (engaging/disengaging). The only downside is you are squishy.

Kitten, the reason cele is meta in pvp is thieves and burn guards and shatter mesmers. You are forcing all other professions to be tanky just to survive your initial burst out of nowhere.

And you still think thieves are up?

The problem seems to be you dont like playing a glasscannon, i’d suggest you roll a warrior then…

Disclosure: i am by no means asking for a nerf. Just stating that thieves are not that bad either….

Aenesthesia.1697:

Disclosure: i am by no means asking for a nerf. Just stating that thieves are not that bad either….

Roll one and then come again?

Aenesthesia.1697:

alchemyst.2165:

So nerf thief more even though it’s the worst class in the game atm, and not let the QQers learn that they need to learn how to play against a class that stealths, which would be bettering the community and creating smarter players?

Lol, worst class? You have unparalelled mobility, burst and can control 1on1s at will (engaging/disengaging). The only downside is you are squishy.

Kitten, the reason cele is meta in pvp is thieves and burn guards and shatter mesmers. You are forcing all other professions to be tanky just to survive your initial burst out of nowhere.

And you still think thieves are up?

The problem seems to be you dont like playing a glasscannon, i’d suggest you roll a warrior then…

Disclosure: i am by no means asking for a nerf. Just stating that thieves are not that bad either….

Hate to break it to you, but our burst has been nerfed over and over again, to the point where other classes do what we were meant to do much better. For example, S/F ele and Glass Mesmers. The only things we can kill 1v1 now are other thieves and players with much lower skill than our own, even though we were actually meant to be the kings of 1v1s. Our only strongpoint atm is our mobility, which is the ONLY true reason why you still see us. I don’t think you’ve actually given the time to play a thief given the situation they’re in atm. It really is the bottom class. You COULD argue ranger, but ranger has much more than thief, which is why it’s at the bottom.

Aenesthesia.1697:

alchemyst.2165:

So nerf thief more even though it’s the worst class in the game atm, and not let the QQers learn that they need to learn how to play against a class that stealths, which would be bettering the community and creating smarter players?

Lol, worst class? You have unparalelled mobility, burst and can control 1on1s at will (engaging/disengaging). The only downside is you are squishy.

Kitten, the reason cele is meta in pvp is thieves and burn guards and shatter mesmers. You are forcing all other professions to be tanky just to survive your initial burst out of nowhere.

And you still think thieves are up?

The problem seems to be you dont like playing a glasscannon, i’d suggest you roll a warrior then…

Disclosure: i am by no means asking for a nerf. Just stating that thieves are not that bad either….

1.Classes are getting reveals so thief damage needs to be raised to compensate for it so thieves could be viable without ever having to stealth, or at least have reveal immunity as a tradeoff for damage (thieves only Mesmers don’t need reveal immunity they have chaos storm and shatter burst). Reveal skills are dumb because if we wanted to be seen we wouldn’t be stealthing at those moments!

2.The “unparalleled mobility” doesn’t even make up for the weak damage output, which is positional (backstab damage requires actually facing the back)

3.Since it’s known everyone builds with thieves in mind I’m conscientiously putting together a team of 2 elementalists, a mesmer (or maybe warrior instead so reveal skills the opponent has equipped would be rendered totally useless), engineer, and guardian, good luck with anti-thief builds against a team like that. Thief mobility relies on initiative anyway so it’s a limited resource.

yolo swaggins.2570:

My idea is better:

1.) Find player QQing about thief.
2.) Find out their main’s profession.
3.) Get on said profession.
4.) Kill player QQing about thief with their own profession.
5.) ??
5.5) Sell harvested tears to drought stricken California.
6.) PROFIT

Fixed that for ‘ya. I’ll be waiting for my cut in the mail.

The community cried big salty tears over stealth for years. Thief got nerfed and hamstrung into the dirt. Then the devs gave Mesmers tons of additional stealth and are now BOSS. What did the community do? Cheered and stole mommy and daddies credit cards to buy pet rocks.

This leads me to believe the vast majority of the community are idiots.

Aenesthesia.1697:

alchemyst.2165:

So nerf thief more even though it’s the worst class in the game atm, and not let the QQers learn that they need to learn how to play against a class that stealths, which would be bettering the community and creating smarter players?

Lol, worst class? You have unparalelled mobility, burst and can control 1on1s at will (engaging/disengaging). The only downside is you are squishy.

Kitten, the reason cele is meta in pvp is thieves and burn guards and shatter mesmers. You are forcing all other professions to be tanky just to survive your initial burst out of nowhere.

….

stealth was never the problem
it was all the noobs wearing full zerk than wondering y a DPS class with zerk just bursted them down so quick

cele is meta for a number of reasons

but yes thief should be a threat so everyone does not go back to zerk

MakubeC.3026:

Make us blink out of Stealth for 1/4 of a second every two or three seconds.
Kind of like Predator does in the movies right before revealing himself out of his camouflage.

Discuss.

While the sarcasm of this is funny to us, you have to be careful.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Anet actually did that.
Only for Thieves though, because Mesmers obviously use magic so it “wouldn’t make sense.”

Don’t hate me. I was just trying to be creative yet simple. (LOL)

Odyssey.2613:

The community cried big salty tears over stealth for years. Thief got nerfed and hamstrung into the dirt. Then the devs gave Mesmers tons of additional stealth and are now BOSS. What did the community do? Cheered and stole mommy and daddies credit cards to buy pet rocks.

This leads me to believe the vast majority of the community are idiots.

A thousand times this.

MakubeC.3026:

Odyssey.2613:

The community cried big salty tears over stealth for years. Thief got nerfed and hamstrung into the dirt. Then the devs gave Mesmers tons of additional stealth and are now BOSS. What did the community do? Cheered and stole mommy and daddies credit cards to buy pet rocks.

This leads me to believe the vast majority of the community are idiots.

A thousand times this.

Yeah this whole “ability +1 should keep class weak, thieves are OP because of stealth” logic is completely destroyed by the fact that mesmers exist in their current state.

MakubeC.3026:

Odyssey.2613:

The community cried big salty tears over stealth for years. Thief got nerfed and hamstrung into the dirt. Then the devs gave Mesmers tons of additional stealth and are now BOSS. What did the community do? Cheered and stole mommy and daddies credit cards to buy pet rocks.

This leads me to believe the vast majority of the community are idiots.

A thousand times this.

So much truth it isn’t even funny.
People seem to forget their mobility too.
But it’s okay cause they aren’t thieves.

You can fix dumb people, cause that’s just ignorance, you can be taught so it’s easily corrected. Sadly you can’t fix stupid.

Thief is hated on principle and name alone.
Nice social experiment Anet performed to prove it.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Disclosure: i am by no means asking for a nerf. Just stating that thieves are not that bad either….

Interesting how the only people who ever seem to say this are ones who don’t play Thief… very interesting. I wonder if there’s a reason for that?

Aenesthesia.1697:

The problem seems to be you dont like playing a glasscannon, i’d suggest you roll a warrior then…

Or ANet could improve Thief’s core durability so it’s not the squishiest profession in the game? Guild Wars 2 is supposed to about diversity and choice of builds. That’s all Thieves are asking for: the ability to play something with a modicum of effectiveness that isn’t glass cannon D/P + Shortbow.

Even THAT is less effective than people think. If you don’t believe me, try playing a Thief in SPvP for even a week. Your uninformed opinion won’t last long.

Xovian.8572:

People seem to forget their mobility too.
But it’s okay cause they aren’t thieves.

While Mesmer has good burst mobility, they can’t be as mobile in a sustained manner as a Thief can by a long shot. The problem is how thoroughly Mesmer encroaches on Thief in general… Mesmer and Thief already have a similar design space of “agility and deception” but Mesmer seems to do 95% of it better right now.

But the best mobility we still have… otherwise Thief wouldn’t be represented in high level SPvP at all. Just sucks we have nothing to DO with that mobility other than backcap or run away.

If anyone here has played League of Legends, this really reminds me of how Akali’s W works. I think OP is suggesting that regardless of what attack you do, you still get the full duration of the stealth but you come in and out of it when hitting someone. Personally I like this idea, but I doubt it’s going to make the rest of the professions stop complaining about the thief.

Amante.8109:

Stealth is not the problem; Mesmer actually does it BETTER right now and they’re one of the top three professions in PvP.

the problem is, a few professions have stealth – mesmer, engi (moreso with scrapper) – but only thieves are balanced around stealth.

only thieves truly feel the pain of being reviled

I am all for more visual counter. Leaving a footprints behind while stealth sounds nice, can be located easily while maintaining pressure in fights. I bet mesmers and engineers will also like it.

Aenesthesia.1697:

The problem seems to be you dont like playing a glasscannon, i’d suggest you roll a warrior then…

Rolled a maurader warrior.

I’d suggest watching the fights over home at the beginning then come back and talk about my thief’s unparalleled control and burst.

Gray.9041:

the problem is, a few professions have stealth – mesmer, engi (moreso with scrapper) – but only thieves are balanced around stealth.

Indeed. I know a lot of people are fearful of stealth being weakened, as we have to rely on its as a crutch right now, but I would gladly lose our focus on stealth if it meant increased core durability and damage avoidance in other areas.

As uninspiring as Daredevil’s “elite mechanic” is—and as much work as the spec still needs—I think focusing on evasion over stealth was a step in the right design direction.

Stealth isn’t the problem.

Core traits are messed up, that’s #1. This mostly involves sustain and survival.
Weapon skill are flawed that’s #2. Involves efficiency in combat.

I would like to add another mechanic unique to the profession, but I do not know what it needs exactly.

Xovian.8572:

Thief is hated on principle and name alone.
Nice social experiment Anet performed to prove it.

I think you are 100% on to something here.

Imagine a world in which Mesmers received more denial and CC akin to their GW1 cousins instead of stealth. Acrobatics stayed the same pre-feline grace nerf but with additional condi cleanse and a little GM rework that we asked for and should have gotten. And the elite spec was Assassin which dealt with completely overhauled and thus better venoms &/or traps.

That would be one heck of a fun, balanced profession and game. Anet would even have their precious E-sports slice of pie too I’d wager.

But nope. We are stuck with sub par content and awful design decisions one after another. You kitten off the intelligent portion of your community, you know, the ones that aren’t 10 years old or refuse to use critical thought and would rather mash buttons to steam role the game to distract them from their skritt life. Top that with putting people in charge that have no idea what they are doing with the added bonus of removing things so they can re-add them later on and charge money for it, and you have a broken, unbalanced Guild Wars 2 populated by sheeple that buy pet rocks.

You can kowtow all day to your precious casual market. But someday you’re going to hit a brick wall and realize you’re catering to the lowest common denominator and all your innovative, radical, boundary pushing ideas need to be dumbed down and watered down to appeal to your precious casuals. At that point you might as well switch over to making lame app games for smartphones.

I can only shake my head at Anet so much before a neck injury happens.