If anet won't find ways to buff thief...

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Then the rest of us will, and already have I might add but for the sake of having official input that isn’t just to people in game asking me about balance… here is my list (feel free to add and let’s make our class viable!) be careful though, some of these changes may hurt the brains of those not ready for this extreme of action:

1) Remove stealth from all classes (and runes) except for the thief (and smoke field combos).
Yes, I said it. Why? Because thief is built in many ways to operate using stealth as a defensive and offensive tool. Keeping it class specific outside of combos will allow it to be balanced according to it’s impact over the thief without the worry of another PU crisis or some ridiculously powerful trapper build emerging because we decided to give it a damage reduction and blind pulse as a baseline or something.

2) Make reveal uniform across the game at 3 sec and make shadow refuge unrevealable.
I think it is agreed by almost all the thief community that reveal at 4 sec in pvp is unnecessary now as people know how to deal with stealth and there are plenty of counters to it anyway. Making it uniform would also avoid messing up the flow of sets like D/D and possibly allowing for an emergence of greater build diversity. SR is obsolete outside of dueling or roaming. The amount of aoe reveal being tossed out to other classes makes thief’s only support skill completely useless, making you unrevealable while inside the refuge allows the skill to have effective support but doesn’t eliminate counterplay as every class has at least a bit of aoe to toss on it. (note: revealed will still be applied in SR if you attack from stealth)

3) Preparedness as a baseline and mug allowed to crit again.
Preparedness is mandatory in practically every single thief build in the game. Making it baseline removes the need to spec into Trickery if a thief only had it for the increased initiative thus opening more builds and allowing anet to add a new trait into the minor slot. Mug allowed to crit would help to bring our single target damage up to the level that it needs to be at to be competitive with other classes. Ofc to avoid 1 shot mug builds the damage on it could be reduced (as in maybe 15%-20%).

4) Sword #2 made an instant cast again.
As it is now, sword 2 is not really useful in combat except as an attempt to run away which still does not really work most of the time due to it not being quick enough. Restoring it to it’s former function would allow S/D and S/P to have the utility and escape routes needed for the sets to be more competitive in fights where lots of cc is being tossed around. CC would still be carried through the port like steal.

5) Insane amounts of CD reduction on thief’s utilities.
Most of the utilities have insanely long cooldowns for the function of the skill. (I.E blinding powder’s 40 sec cd for a 3 sec stealth no stunbreak or pretty much every thief utility that has a 60 sec cd.) If thief is going to be reliant on escapes as a means of survival then it needs to have cd’s up when it’s time to escape. Also a few cd reductions might encourage others to take skills they don’t normally use. (mostly because the massive cd makes the skill near worthless in the long run)

6) Give a base hp buff to thief.
Simple, bring it up to match engi and you have given the class more build diversity right off the bat. The issue now is that thief is REQUIRED to build some sort of vitality gear in order to avoid dying to a breeze and that is causing an extreme limit to build diversity. A small buff like that will open up so many new options for thief and eliminate some of it’s being too squishy problems so a good portion of the imbalance is addressed there. Both ele and guard would receive the same buff to hp.

7) Make Black Powder tick every second again.
A small blind field that everyone can easily avoid while still hitting the thief. Not sure why buffing it is a big issue. Plus it allows for the skill to become a possible defensive tool again for stealthless play rather than just sitting as a stealth entering combo field.

8) Buff base initiative regen and grant 6 initiative on weapon swap as long as the sets are different (I.E D/P SB combo) (One or the other, definitely not both)
This will allow the thief to synergize with it’s weapon swap while avoiding the potential power creep from restoring all initiative every time a swap occurs. Quick pockets can be changed to allow someone to acquire the swap bonus while wielding 2 of the same set. Base initiative regen is too small right now and thief lacks the ability to sustain damage in a fight because of it. Buffing it slightly (10-15%) will help the thief to sustain it’s damage in a fight while still punishing spammers for not managing resources effectively.

9) Make Blind on stealth baseline for CnD
D/D needs the trait to function properly and having to sacrifice all your possible sustain just to make a weapon set work is silly. Blind on stealth as a baseline would allow for D/D to be used in pvp assuming the reveal change is done too and would give a bit more defensive utility to sets like S/D that still utilize stealth occasionally.

10) Give Daredevil a rate of endurance regen proportionally equal to other classes.
Right now it just has the same rate which means proportionally it has less endurance regen relative to it’s total endurance. If a spec is to be completely dependent on dodge for damage mitigation then it should have a higher regen rate as well.

11) Serious damage buffs to thief weapon skills.
-Heartseeker needs a 10% damage buff
-Flanking strike needs 20% more damage, not needing to hit a target to cycle to larcenous strike, or needs to be combined with larcenous like at release. And make larcenous steal 2 boons again.
-CnD 5-10% increase. Right now its highest crit is like 2.5-3k. A necro’s dagger auto hits for more than that which shouldn’t be happening when the thief is specced for full damage.
-Cluster Bomb given back it’s 1200 range, and given a projectile velocity increase. Thief needs to have at least some way to reach 1200 range with it’s ranged weapons. The projectile on cluster bomb is so slow it feels like you wait for years for it to actually land when you try to use it from range, it just sounds nice to be able to at least hit things a bit quicker from range with the skill.
-Disabling shot could benefit highly from a 10% damage increase and the removal of the stupid walking animation at the end (rubberband is killer). It’s an evade let it be an evade not a deathwish.

Thanks all for your time in reading this, if you have questions or concerns leave a comment below but please read the whole post before posting to avoid misunderstandings and miscommunications. Let’s make this stuff happen so we can be feared again!

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

(edited by Ario.8964)

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Posted by: Elodium.7263

Elodium.7263

So, you would like to get a buff on almost everything? :O

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Posted by: Impact.2780

Impact.2780

Lol. Saw length of post. Thought zzzz probably just wants an "I win" button. First reply confirmed it enough to free my, only slight urge, to read that wall =P.

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Posted by: Elodium.7263

Elodium.7263

Lol. Saw length of post. Thought zzzz probably just wants an “I win” button. First reply confirmed it enough to free my, only slight urge, to read that wall =P.

I know each class has it’s issues – but boy, if Anet would listen to these kind of ideas/solutions, imagine what the game would look like.

Person with lowest ping/best reaction wins with his 1-2 button win!

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Person with lowest ping/best reaction wins with his 1-2 button win!

Isn’t that already the case for most classes?

Not saying I agree with the OP, I don’t.

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Posted by: Impact.2780

Impact.2780

Ok kitten it I read it.

1) No.
2) Reveal 3s yes, SR unrevealable no.
3) Preparedness baseline... Maybe. Mug crit again, yes.
4) Instant cast, maybe. Stun break, no.
5) No, lol.
6) Not needed with marauder but would be nice, and, if yes, same treatment for elementalist and guardian. I disagree about the build diversity part though.
7) Can be justified again. Sure. Nice but not needed.
8) Increase base initiative regeneration... Don’t know. Since I don’t know, and it’s not needed, I’ll say no. 6 initiative on weapon swap... Definitely not alongside a base increase, but on it’s own... maybe 3 or 4 initiative on swap, and get rid of quick pockets. 6 is too much. Edit: I meant Upper Hand. Quick Pockets was an old one.
9) No. Such an effect doesn’t make sense to be baseline. It’d have to be an effect of cloak and dagger or stealth itself. Definitely no to the latter.
10) Yes and no... Yes it makes a lot of sense, but we do already have it by gaining 50 endurance on a successful steal. Sure it relies on steal landing, so it isn’t a given, and I do dislike the "all eggs in one basket" thing steal has going on, but at the same time I like that it requires active play to get. Other classes should too have passive stuff changed to provide the bonus when doing something active for it.
11)
- Back stab is fine. Nerf True Shot and Vault instead. Small damage buff to heartseeker, yes.
- Small damage buff to Flanking Strike, yes.
- Not needing to hit a target to turn over to Larcenous Strike... Not sure, each has advantages and disadvantages. I think no.
- Damage buff to CnD... Maybe a little; not sure.
- Cluster Bomb range increase no. Velocity increase slightly only. Damage increase, no.
- Disabling Shot "rubberband" effect removed, hell bloody yes.

EU | Ímpáct / Impact Warlock / Impact Illusions
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(edited by Impact.2780)

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Impact, thanks at least for reading the big kitten wall. Just read it myself after having actually gotten some sleep and my first thought on length was “oh dear lord what did I just put down?”

Now if you are okay discussing individual points that you made I’d like to compare a little bit more on what we are both thinking just for my own sake.

1) Why not? If stealth becomes unique to this class then it can be balanced according to its usefulness to the thief and if that means stripping stealth on an attack being blocked then so be it. The thought behind it was to give a little more play as a tactical tool not only as a way to run away because that’s pretty much what it is right now, at least in my experience for pvp. And before we get too far in. Other classes would be compensated for it through implication of things like blur for Mesmer.
2) Glad we agree, and are there specific things you can elaborate for on sr?
3) Glad we agree
4) Okay so if we took off stunbreak and just made it instant cast like steal where it would port but you still carry the cc effect on you would that be more appealing?
5) Justification? I figure its reasonable to ask for all our utilities to not have to be on cd for 60 sec. Small reductions like maybe down to 50 sec on those or 45 if anet feels really crazy about it. Didn’t mean the decrease would be huge, just the amount of skills that would need to be decreased.
6) Yeah the change would apply to ele and guardian as well. The diversity part would come about just in terms of gear difference. So some people may go full yolo zerk or some may build some valk or marauder. Either way that means we aren’t forced into using only 1 or 2 stat combos for gear which in my eyes is a plus.
7) Glad we agree
8) Sorry I didn’t type 1 or the other on that. I’ll edit that in after I post this.
9) So baseline on CnD but otherwise leave it out. I’m perfectly happy with that and I know most others would be okay too.
10) It’s not necessarily making everything passive, its just for a spec that completely relies on a dodge for damage mitigation it makes more sense to me to have the endurance regen be a bit higher. The boost wouldn’t be game changing but it may help in sustaining a thief through combat a bit more.
11)
-Okay I can agree with that
-Glad we agree
- I liked being able to preload it for burst and so that if the skill double clicks you don’t lose half your initiative. (though getting a new keyboard may help with that) But I can see your point on it. This one feels more like a preference thing in playstyles.
-Slight as in 5-10% just giving it a bit more offensive pressure but its probably not needed, that one is up to the balance team
- Idk, the range nerf felt unjustified in the first place to me but there may have been reasons I wasn’t aware of. Glad we would both appreciate a small vel. increase and maybe damage can be ignored
- Thank you! Someone who gets the pain!

Ok, I’ll edit in the ones I agree with. If you would be okay responding to the other ones that’d be awesome!

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: Domey.9804

Domey.9804

Backstab is not Fine. It could need a little Bit More dmg.
Vault is fine…it keeps staff alive.
True shot is too mich, but thats not thief so it doesnt belong here.

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Posted by: Serious Thought.5394

Serious Thought.5394

@Impact-

So you think Thief is IFFY on preparedness baseline, but its totally k for Mesmers to obtain Illusionary Persona?

Worst Thief in the world, yes I am.

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Posted by: darkaheart.4265

darkaheart.4265

nerf Rapid Fire and then True Shot! sorry guys rapid fire gets me work up lol i just hate that skill with passion.

anyways i can agree on some of this stuff but not all, i reroll from warrior for the same reason and now i have this class nerfed too

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Posted by: darkaheart.4265

darkaheart.4265

i also agree that not all classes should have stealth. if they do it, it should be limited compare to thief. runes that grant stealth should be deleted and thieves should be unique. dont get me started on mesmers, omg they have everything. they definitely shouldnt have as much stealth even with combos. they have clones and those clones can perform their own attacks and other functions, thats their thing. anyways, anet pretty much is killing another class for no reason just like warrior and they have it worse.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

nerf Rapid Fire and then True Shot! sorry guys rapid fire gets me work up lol i just hate that skill with passion.

anyways i can agree on some of this stuff but not all, i reroll from warrior for the same reason and now i have this class nerfed too

Me too. I took my ranger for a spin today, my genius combo was: LB 2, 4, 111, 2 > GS 2 – 23 stacks of vulnerability through rapidfire GG and there goes my brain. Took down a mob I’m killing on my thief every day in half the time – and my ranger is soldier’s.

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Posted by: Shadow.1345

Shadow.1345

Another simian circle spank post where everyone pats each other on the back for coming up with ideas to buff thieves that will never happen because none of the posters work for Anet. Colour me surprised.

What makes this one different from the countless others that didn’t change anything?

Inb4 any comments about not leaving comments that are constructive to thread: Mine is constructive because it’s realistic as opposed to living in some lalaland where you think your ideas will actually change anything.

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Cute Shadow but what you are failing to realize is if enough calling out happens then the possibility of a change being made is higher. This has been demonstrated on multiple occasions throughout the games history. I.E the Mesmer exodus and then their push for IP as a baseline. Troll and slander all you want this thread may help to make a difference someday.

#rektgitgudnoobcyakthnxbye!

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

At first I was wondering if this list was going to be somewhat reasonable. Then I saw #2 and #3. I couldn’t keep reading.

SR reveals when leaving it because that’s how it gets counter-played. It’s already seen as one of the best utilities in the game. I really don’t understand why people demand this skill be buffed not to reveal. Most people don’t position it correctly and get out-smarted in positioning and question why a massive radius AOE stealth for a long period of time isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card. Your opponent played smart as you should expect them to. It’s common to kill another thief in SR as a thief because you know what they’re doing. It’s the same thing just from other classes or ways of dealing with it.

No way should mug be able to crit again. I know mine hover around 4-5k as it is. That would one-shot most of the dwellers on this sub-forum or come close, and could be done from stealth at a 100% crit chance.

(edited by DeceiverX.8361)

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

For the sr, I wasn’t talking about when leaving it. If a thief leaves or is knocked out of an sr then yes they deserve the reveal. I was talking about when sitting inside it so it isn’t rendered completely obsolete by 1 revenant skill, a guard trap, and a passive engi skill.

With mug that’s why I also mentioned a possible damage decrease on the skill itself because the power level as it is now would be insanely strong for an instant cast. Then you wouldn’t have 1 shot builds but mug could also be used with guaranteed crit traits or sigs to allow for a higher burst potential.

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I see. I think there just need to be fewer revealing effects in the game, especially if suggestion 1 is followed or stealth access in general (PU, trapper runes, the scrapper drone) sharply reduced. Someone waiting to use an ability for SR deserves to see the thief at the least or potentially get it revealed, but I will agree the accessibility of revealed right now for how it functions is too high, especially on AOE’s.

I don’t think a 5% reduction on mug would cut it. 5% of 12k is only 600. 11.4k is still a ton of damage to be dealing out at instant speed. I get that the damage might feel underwhelming for its cool down on a non-hyper-burst build, but critting would put this over the edge without substantial nerfs, which really just begs the question of why not leave it as it is or just maybe increase the healing to keep steal a valid sustain mechanism while engaged in combat to bolster the thief’s skirmishing potential.

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Okay so with a possible reduction of revealing effects I could let this one go. But overall we are in agreement that there needs to not be an instant counter to such a huge skill? Though I could settle with each pulse of sr removing 2-3 sec of reveal as a counter to the counter if that makes any balance sense. That way the skill isn’t rendered useless but it’s effect is reduced as it doesn’t stack as high stealth as most thieves intend to with the skill.

Okay I can see your point on that. So if it was left as it is but some other defenses got buffed would you be on board with that?

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: Impact.2780

Impact.2780

@Impact-

So you think Thief is IFFY on preparedness baseline, but its totally k for Mesmers to obtain Illusionary Persona?

Firstly, please don’t put words in my mouth. It’s both annoying and a horrible way to argue.
Secondly, that logic is also horrible. Revs and Engis got given reveal skills, so warrior and mesmer should get it too. Thief got block on a utility. Mesmers should have shield 4 as a utility instead. ANet broke X or did wrong to X, so they must break/wrong Y too. etc.

EU | Ímpáct / Impact Warlock / Impact Illusions
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Posted by: Shadow.1345

Shadow.1345

Cute Shadow but what you are failing to realize is if enough calling out happens then the possibility of a change being made is higher. This has been demonstrated on multiple occasions throughout the games history. I.E the Mesmer exodus and then their push for IP as a baseline. Troll and slander all you want this thread may help to make a difference someday.

#rektgitgudnoobcyakthnxbye!

Almost everyday there is some new qq post about how players can’t play thief and how many buffs have there been vs. how many nerfs there have been? Thief is fine it’s the players that are bad. Bad players that would rather whine to mommy and daddy Anet to make things better rather than learning how to play a class that is still currently in the meta. It’s cute, though, that you think you “rekt” me with that response. Maybe one day you’ll there will be a realistic one of these posts that the devs don’t just skip past and doesn’t get buried along with all of the other of these types of posts. Until then, keep dreaming.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Bad players that would rather whine to mommy and daddy Anet to make things better rather than learning how to play a class that is still currently in the meta.

EU matchups yesterday:

Revenant : 8
Engineer : 6
Elementalist : 6
Necromancer : 6
Ranger : 6
Mesmer : 5
Guardian : 3
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

“Still in the meta”…

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Posted by: darkaheart.4265

darkaheart.4265

EU matchups yesterday:

Revenant : 8
Engineer : 6
Elementalist : 6
Necromancer : 6
Ranger : 6
Mesmer : 5
Guardian : 3
Warrior : 0
Thief : 0

“Still in the meta”…

are you serious? no thieves or warriors lol

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

are you serious? no thieves or warriors lol

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/EU-Pro-League-Meta

Haven’t had a look at the NA thread yet.

Edit: NA thread

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-Pro-League-Meta

0 warriors still, 3 thieves.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Kaliny.8265

Kaliny.8265

Obviously because Thief is so meta people on EU won’t play because would be too meta for them. They are taking a more casual aproach to make things interesting.

I’m not always rude and sarcastic… Sometimes i’m asleep.

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Posted by: blitzkrieg.2451

blitzkrieg.2451

Just keep in the mind, for all classes, this is the beginning of the pro season and the meta hasn’t been TRULY defined yet. Yes, revenants are clearly strong , but other than that, it’s going to take some true testing across the first half of the season for all classes to find out what really works and complements each other.

For thieves, I think there might be some hope as a point roamer / finisher (elite) / support res and defense position like Caed was doing in NA Pro League and did pretty good. As far as a strict assassin style damage dealer? Other classes handle this role as more skirmish type classes. I don’t think thief will ever be a one hit wonder assassin style burst class anymore. Essentially, I think thief will (and has been for a while now) becomes a Magic Toker / Caed style point roaming class to assist in decaps , finishing people , support res variants – I guess this is what anet wants for thief in competitive PvP.

Just let the season shape out a bit more before we make any serious judgements about classes fitting in a meta that truly isn’t even formed yet.. yes they didnt have any thieves in ESL , but NA did and didn’t do too bad.

Tanbin – Ranger / Thief / Ele
Maguuma

(edited by blitzkrieg.2451)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Okay so with a possible reduction of revealing effects I could let this one go. But overall we are in agreement that there needs to not be an instant counter to such a huge skill? Though I could settle with each pulse of sr removing 2-3 sec of reveal as a counter to the counter if that makes any balance sense. That way the skill isn’t rendered useless but it’s effect is reduced as it doesn’t stack as high stealth as most thieves intend to with the skill.

Okay I can see your point on that. So if it was left as it is but some other defenses got buffed would you be on board with that?

The reason I suggest reductions on reveal skills themselves is because putting SR as a counter to the skills meant to counter stealth as a mechanic just funnels more thieves into needing to use SR; we should be looking for solutions that bolster build diversity and general fairness over just sheer power creep on skills that are already considered strong. We’re seeing more revealed because more classes/builds are using stealth; cut the stealth from other classes and there becomes less of a need for revealed, allowing for revealed to be required less or yield such substantial gains, allowing for nerfs to access or buffs to the thief’s stealth. This way, all thieves benefit instead of just those using SR.

Again, I think more healing added to mug could be a start for defenses. I think it’s fair that the class is punished for not avoiding the big hits, and good on our enemies for bursting us and playing into our weaknesses. Just like we slip through their cracks and defenses to land a hit, they should do the same for our active defenses, and if that hit is a big one, we should be just as punished. Giving the thief extra healing in the fight from steal allows the skill to be used in a wider array of circumstances while keeping the thief sustaining against hits that shouldn’t really matter; dodging True Shot and such skills should be rewarded, and the thief should be able to recover better from taking a few autos or random AOE’s from other classes when it has steal available and can use it as a bit of an extra heal if need be.

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

So reduction on reveal skills I like if sr is left the same as it is now. Then by implementing the cd reduction idea I proposed there may be some nice availability to use other skills because they won’t be outshined so easily as they’ll be more readily available in the heat of battle.

Again I like the healing for mug but there has to be some other stuff put in besides just more healing on mug otherwise we force people into running DA if they want sustain in a fight. But you are right, it would be a good start to boosting defenses. I guess I have another question to put out: In terms of buffing defenses is it better to start by just adding in more defensive traits or should we just focus more on buffing the ones we already have in order to make them more effective and provide a harder choice for thieves to make when choosing traits? Cause if I remember right there’s some sort of sustain buff in every line most of them are just pitifully lackluster.
Acro- Assassin’s reward (heal on ini use)
Crit strikes- Invigorating prec (heal 15% of crit damage done)
Sa- Shadow’s rejuv and shadow protector
Da- mug
Dd- heal on successful evade and physical cd reduc (indirect sustain buff via channeled vigor)
Trickery- cd reduc on tricks (indirect sustain buff via withdraw)

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

You’re right on there being “sustain” options in every line, but many of them are huge sacrifices to make to builds or are just poor traits.

Mug healing going up gives the skill more strategic value rather than just damage.

Invigorating precision is difficult to deal with because it’s both extremely strong and a weaker option to pick from (For the CS GM’s) at the same time. HK being built into Keen Observer and a trait to remove a condition on stealth attacks might be a decent option, but I think this would likely require a lot of balance speculation, and possibly changes to HK and IP due to the potential overdose of sustain and burst damage optimization.

Assassin’s reward is horrible, and it’s a shame that DD and Acrobatics are basically the same; heal on dodge was a great idea but for the line trait line. This would also require a lot of examination as too much sustain here would let Acro/DD/SA become possibly night unkillable for landing a hit would be challenging enough as it is.

SRejuv is completely fine and one of the best traits in the game. Paired with damage reduction and condition cleanses, SA needs no more mitigation than it has. If anything, to buff some of the other lines, more might need to get pulled from here as to prevent the thief from sustaining too easily.

DD healing is alright. With the rest of the tweaks above it’d probably be reasonable as is.

Trickery offers a lot and I don’t think it needs changes, for if every other line offers some kind of equivalent sustain, there’s no need for 3x redundancy.

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

I see. I think there just need to be fewer revealing effects in the game, especially if suggestion 1 is followed or stealth access in general (PU, trapper runes, the scrapper drone) sharply reduced. Someone waiting to use an ability for SR deserves to see the thief at the least or potentially get it revealed, but I will agree the accessibility of revealed right now for how it functions is too high, especially on AOE’s.

I don’t think a 5% reduction on mug would cut it. 5% of 12k is only 600. 11.4k is still a ton of damage to be dealing out at instant speed. I get that the damage might feel underwhelming for its cool down on a non-hyper-burst build, but critting would put this over the edge without substantial nerfs, which really just begs the question of why not leave it as it is or just maybe increase the healing to keep steal a valid sustain mechanism while engaged in combat to bolster the thief’s skirmishing potential.

For the sake of balance it’s better to keep it as is than reduce % since bonus damage from a crit relies on RNG whereas if extra damage breaks the game it should be held in check. The thing is while critical hits are meant to be a game changing wildcard with its extra damage if an attack is already powerful enough critting can send it over the edge.

Of course it should crit in PvE with no change to the base damage, but that would involve separating PvP and PvE abilities. It’s one of the things WoW actually got right (Sap lasts longer in PvE than PvP for example).

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Posted by: Sandrox.9524

Sandrox.9524

it is all because thief is squishy as kitten, and in today meta where aoe everything classes, thief cant do anything.

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Posted by: Shadow.1345

Shadow.1345

3 necros, 3 rangers… guess that means reaper is UP as well.

Good to know, I’ll start demanding buffs for Reaper Shroud.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

3 necros, 3 rangers… guess that means reaper is UP as well.

Good to know, I’ll start demanding buffs for Reaper Shroud.

Maybe you should read my words in context:

are you serious? no thieves or warriors lol

Haven’t had a look at the NA thread yet.

Edit: NA thread

0 warriors still, 3 thieves.

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Just ignore Shadow’s trolling.

So Deceiver, in order to make thief more sustainable in combat would it be worth buffing the “sustain” traits I mentioned above (excluding SR) and then possible moving them around in the trees to make them actually possible choices as they won’t have to compete with 100% necessary traits?

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

Thieves can gank, +1, AOE stealth for long durations, has good burst, res and has good mobility, although the last one used to be ‘best’ because alot of stuff can catch a thief out. Sure we can only 1v1 lesser skilled players, but it isn’t that bad, the only thing is that certain weapon sets could be alot better and be more viable.

It’s sad that acro got gutted for DareDevil though, I think trait wise, Thief is in an okay spot otherwise.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

Every class can gank, every class can +1, almost every class can stealth and 2 can do it for long durations. Every class can res and our best res utility is hard countered by classes that can do everything you mentioned with less risk and more team support. None of those things listed are unique to the thief class which is why thief is being pushed out of the meta and which is why we need buffs to help us compete.

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!