Guild Wars 2

How would you do it? What would you change, what would you keep from the current Design.
fact is the way how the Thief is right now, it can’t stay under current Game Balance.
And before we start nerfing things for 8 other classes, making alot of other players frustrated because of nerfing them down to current Thief Level, its much better, quicker and easier done to redesign just simply the whole Thief Class and rebalance it by this step to the point, that they are finally on par with the quality and power creep of the other 8 classes mostly, so that no one will complain that they got nerfed and Thief Players get happy, that thy finally aren’t anymore just stupid +1 pets for everyone else most of the time!!

So here I want to start with a new iteration of how I would do that job, after having received some new inspirations lately that I let flow into that concept now and I’m just interested to see, what people will think about it, once they can see the full concept

First about some Basics.

Base Health and Defensive Stat Efficiency
Base Health if for the Thief Class under the current Game Balance Meta just laughable weak. With 11k Base Health, a mosquito’s fart of a condition spam can basicalyl brign you already quickly to lifethreatening danger, especialyl now where Burning is so power and especially when mixed together with the current OP Conditions of Torment and Confusion you will definetely eat quickly dust with so low health when fighting agaisnt a full condition spammer that can you quickly full with these conditions as also high stacks of Bleeding and Vulnerability, which further increases now sicne the last patch procentually your condition damage!! PROCENTUALLY!! And 25% more Condition Damage from high Vulnerability with Conditions which already ignore all kinds of defense mechanics is absolut outrageous and totalyl ridiculously OP.

There exist 2 ways how the Health problem could be solved.
A)
Just raise the Base Health of the Thief – Easy done, but that would be unfair for Elementalist and Guardian!! So for me personally non optimal solution.

B)
Just significantly the efficiency of Vitality that Vitality increases much more the maximum health for simply everyone, who decideds to go for more Vitality in his/he Build.
By increasing the efficiency of Vitality would automatically Anet soft balance out the Condition Damage Creep, as everyone would become able to sustain longer this Condition Spam, without that ANet had to nerf anything on the Conditino Damage Side and this solution would especialyl reward the most players that decide to go for more defensive builds over offensive ones, by becoming that way alot more sustainable against Conditions, if Vitality would just give per point instead of lousy 10HP at LEAST 25 HP. This would be for me the perfect soft balanced solution for Thieves to solve their problem about beign way too squishy under the curren’t Game Balance, which is still in regard of Health Values balanced around the Game release State of 2012 where all this power creep that we have by now 3 years later DIDN’T EXIST AT ALL.
So ANet absolutely has to recosider finally for Game Balance reasons, if they don’t want to nerf everything just simply, that they finally stop completely ignoring Base Health and Defensive Stat Efficiency and use these factors for once and buff them accordingly to brign them up on par with the current DPS stat which went already through the roof everywhere, where the current Base healths and Defensive Stat Efficiencies are just not enough and too weak for all this DPS.

Next Step:

General Game Balance Changes

There are also some General Game Balance Changes that need to happen from which everyone would profitate from:
In List Form:

• Redesign the Attribute System, make the defensive Attributes same as valuable as like the offensive Attributes, by adding also synergies to the defensive Attributes
  You can go full defense i nthis game and sadly stil lreceive nearly samge as much damage, as when you’d not be a defensive build-. This just speaks for itself, how massively underpowered and ineffective Toughness and Vitality in itself are, because thesedefensive aatributes are just way too weak to have any impact in a combat against someone who is offensively builded.
  Toughness just needs to significantly decrease more the damage you receive, while Vitality needs finalyl to significantly increase Maximum Health, so that we can last longer agaisnt Condition Spam with is always faster reapplied, than out Condition Removals can recharge. Healing Power is just so weak and meaningless, it wold be just the best to completely merge the effect of it to Vitality as part of the next point.

• Give all Attributes DUAL EFFECTS, as this will allow much better to give defensive Attributes fitting synergies with each other. It would give each attribute more efficiency and impact, so that dual effect attributes could help breakign up the constant Zerker or GTFO mentality of players, once players would realize after these changes, that it would be actually quite good for them, if they just don’t go for all DPS only, but also use more defensive stats due to their much more helpful Side Effects and if those defensive Side Effects are just generally more useful for a player, than the offensive ones, then we will effectively see a shift in the Meta for sure to a more balanced state where Zerker/Condition Spam don’t will be just everything you need.

• Condition Duration needs to get massively reduced for all condition skills of the whole Game. Condition Duration needs to become an overall attribute, into which Condition Players need to invest Attribute Points into to raise their overall Condition DPS. Condition players finally need to have to use more than just 1 single Attribute to maximize their DPS. They should need to have to use 3 Attibutes like Direct Damage Builds too.

• To achieve the above point, lower also the Condition Damage Calculator so that Condition Damage for everyone just in general gets reduced, but allow Condition Damage to be Critical also too now. This way would have Condition Build Players finally to use 3 Stats also too for maximizing their DPS. Condi Damage, Precision and Condi Duration and for Condi Players it should not be possible to have at the same time maximum Condi Damage together with maximum Condi Duration.
  Condi Players should sacrifice either Condition Damage over Durations, or vice versa, so that they have to decide, if they want to be rather short and bursty Conditioners, or longer lasting weaker Conditioners

• Buff Items finally need to get removed from WvW. the only Buff Efffects there should come from Shrines, WvW Claim Buffs, WvW Trait Progression and stacking Sigil Boosts from kills. Removing them from WvW and makign them PvE only would allow Anet also finally to make much more and alot better and interesting Buff Items for PvE, without having to fear, that these items bring WvW automatically out of control.

What I am about to say isn’t a complete drastic change. We don’t want come up with another entire elite spec lol.

offense

- Baseline crit rate needs to increase. To easily achieve the 60% mark. We are wasting all our gear and food to reach an OK level of precision.
- Preparedness as baseline
- More application of Torment in traits or weapon skills.

Sustain / Survival

I would leave health as it is. It’s low, I know, but low health keeps things interesting. It keeps people focused, preventing them from making mistakes, raising the skill bar to a high level.

- Regen effects on the Thief needs an increase.
- Apply Resistance to some of our traits and weapon skills.
- Apply protection " ."
- Weakness also takes condition damage into account. (Note: Vulnerability increases damage from condition since that terrible June Patch.. Do it for Weakness)
- More blinding applications, yes, not enough blinds.

I think those changes would bring nice changes to the survivability of the Thief without touching baseline vitality.

I think power is fine, we are still top 3-5 damage dealers. The problem is keeping up with the pressure, and this is greatly correlated caused by survivability.

Might stacking on evade for the acro traitline.

Now to the Concept

I would first change the Main Class Mechanic:

Steal System Change

The current Steal is just plain boring, its nothing unique, its just a Shadow Step that gives you some random skills or a class based skil lthat can be helpful to counter the enemy when used at the right time, but you loose the skill sadly if you get interrupted, which happens in this game way too easily and oftenly and most of the effects of the skilsl are just plain to weak for the current state of power creep from GW2 to be at all efficient and competitive
—-

I would give the Thief instead a Class Mechanic Theme, that is easier adaptable in regard of upcoming Elite Specializations via changing their Main mechanic into an Arts System as we are already talking in regard of Thief Specializations about some Arts they have (Shadow Arts, Deadly Arts)
SO I think this design should be better integrated also into their Main Gameplay Mechanic by turning the Steal Mechanism into many different interestign and more useful “Arts” from which the Thief Player then can choose situationally which Art of a certain “School” is for the moment the most useful to perform.

Here an Example for the Main Profession of the Thief, that is teached in the School of Pickpocketing.

The School of Pickpocketign will consist of 4 different F-Skills that the Thief will use, which have all different increasing Recharge Times so more effective they are from F1 to F4 with F4 beign the most effective Ability.

F1 = Thievery
F2 = Exploitation
F3 = Mugging
F4 = Ambush

Thievery= When used, you Steal an actual Utility Skill from your Enemy and gain Stealth and Superspeed for 3seconds. The Stolen Utility Skill will be set onto Cooldown fro the Enemy. The Duration of Stealth and Super PSeed will be doubled, if the Enemy had no Utility Skills to steal cause of them all being at cooldown at the moment you use Thievery

Exploitation = Steal from your Enemies their Boons and regain Health for every stolen Boon you receive and deal extra Damage for every stolen Boon also for the next 10s. Explotation works as a 1200 ranged Shadow Step/Stun Breaker which removes also Immobilize.

Mugging = Steal from your Enemy their Weapons, disabling them for the next 10 seconds to swap their weapons. Enemies which can’t swap Weapons will get instead stunned for 2,5 seconds. You will shadowstep away from your foe to create distance after Mugging and you convert up to 3 Conditions on you over to your mugged Target

Ambush = Gain for you and up to 5 nearby allies 10 seconds of Stealth, Ressistance, Fury and Quickness and cause 1 second of Fear to Targets that you attack from Stealth.
—-

As comparison to the Daredevil, he would get then the “School of Martial Arts”
with F1 to F4 being 4 different Arts of Dodges, while the Thief has 4 different Arts of Stealing under the School of Pickpocketing
The Daredevil would have then these F Skills

F1 = Storm Dash
F2 = Impaling Lotus
F3 = Somersault Bound
F4 = Shadow Sphere

Storm Dash = Activate this Art of Dodging and your Dodges turn into Storm Dashes which let you dash quickly like a Warrior using Whirlwind Attack with the help of a directional line of sight over an increased distance, dealing while you dodge all foes in that line of sight damage. You gain still all positive Effects like using a Standard Dodge Roll from your Traits that might affect Dodges, when using Storm Dash, but you gain additionally after a Storm Dash also for 2 seconds Quickness and Super Speed.
Storm Dashes work as Stun Breakers and remove Immobilize, Chill and Cripple.
Storm Dash will cost you Initiative instead of Endurance, unlike the other 3 Arts of Dodges which cost Endurance. The Damage of Storm Dash will be increased when wearing the Staff, while it will cost lesser Initiative, when wearing Dual Daggers.

Impaling Lotus Activate this Art of Dodging and your Dodges turn into Deadly Blossoms that deal damage to multiple surrounding targets by throwing several daggers at foes that inflict Torment, Bleeding and Cripple to foes.
When wielding Dual Pistols the Condition Damage of the Daggers and Velocity will be increased. When wielding Dual Daggers you will perform actually also a Deadly Blossom that will deal also Extra direct Damage and the Evade Time of your Dodges is increased.

Somersault Bound Activate this Art of Dodgign and your Dodge Rolls become combo finishing leaps that deal on impact massive damage with increased chance for critical hits.
When performed with the Staff, the Damage is increased and the impact is so strong, that enemies will get knocked downed for a second.
When performed with a Sword the Velocity will be faster and on impact you will cause Weakness and Cripple
When performed with a Shortbow, you will halfway in the air shoot a Clusterbomb that will cause an explosion that leaves a fire field at your landing spot that will burn on contact and when you finish it at your landing, gives AoE Might.

Shadow Sphere Activate this Art of Dodging and you leave a trail of darkness behind you when you dodge, which pulses AoE Blindness and works like a Smoke Screen blocking also projectile attacks, which can be used then naturally by your leaps to gain Stealth also. Based on which weapon you use with this, you gain different Boons when you dodge with it:
Staff = Vigor
Sword = Might
Pistol = Regeneration
Dagger = Fury
Shortbow = Resistance

Now to the Healing Skills

This would be the Healing Skills that I would give the Thief:

Hide in Shadows
Gain Health and Regeneration. Cures Burning, Poison, Bleeding and Torment.
1 Second Charge Time. 25 Seconds Recharge Time. Gain 5 Stacks of Stealth and lose 1 Stack per second.

Withdraw
Dodge Roll backwards, gain Health and remove Cripple, Immobilize and Chill.
If you are a Daredevil then you will perform your activated Art of Dodge. You gain back also 6 Initiative if you had lesser than 4 Initiative at the moment you used Withdraw

Signet of Malice
Passive: Gain Health back whenever your Conditions deal Damage.
Active: Steal the Healing Skill of your Target and use it for yourself. Convert 2 Conditions and steal also 2 Boons.

Skelk Venom
Gain Health and apply for the next 10 seconds Skelk Venom to your venom which lets your attacks leech Health the way the old Passive of Signet of Malice did.
While Sklek Venom is used, are your Poisons significantly stronger in Damage and reduce Heals from enemies by 50% instead of 33% and Boons from poisoned Enemies will last 50% less long. (this change is absolutely a MUST as counterbalance to the Insane Boon Gameplay that Glint Revenants will bring to the game!! and in general to make this skill finally more competitive and interesting to use)

Inner Balance (Daredevil)
Gain Health and over the next 3 seconds also Endurance back per second.
Gain more Health at full Endurance as also Resistance. Can be used now also underwater! Won’t root you anymore. Your next 2 used Weapon Skills that cost more than 4 Initiative after using Inner Balance will let you gain Stability and Aegis.

General Stealth Change
Stealth is now a Boon Effect, Thieves won’t get revealed anymore, but when using Stealth Attacks, they will lose instantly all their Stealth Stacks.
The Counterplay to Stealth will be from that point on then PBAoE Boon Removal, Boon Steal and Boon Corruption.
So this means that a Thief will be able again to instantly stealth the moment they lost the Boon.
The Skills from other Classes that caused earlier Reveal, will get changed to Boon Removal, what will make those skills also in general then more interesting to use against other Classes also too and not only against Thieves, which was total stupid by design in itself to design Skills around 1 single Class in mind to hard counter 1 gamerplay mechanic only with them… under such skill design are those skills just a waste of an utility/elite slot

I don’t have as thorough of ideas as a lot of the posters in here, but I’ll tell you 2 changes I would make immediately, both of which are reverting outdated nerfs to the sword.

- Larcenous Strike – now steals 2 boons as it used to

One boon is absurd, and sword/dagger is absolutely terrible in every aspect of the game.

- Infiltrator’s Return – is now instant cast again

It is embarassing that this remains nerfed with the crazy shadowstepping abilities of the revenant.

- Infiltrator’s Strike – range increased from 600 to 900

The sword definitely needs some love. Simply undoing these 2 dated nerfs and a slight buff to infiltrator’s strike would give thieves a reason to use swords again, and would prevent them from being embarassingly outperformed on the mobility front by revenants.

Orpheal.8263:

And before we start nerfing things for 8 other classes, making alot of other players frustrated

This is literally what needs to be done. Not because thieves are “too weak” but because a lot of the other classes are too strong. Not to mention some elite specs (Chrono / reaper) are going to make further problems.

All classes by design should have strengths and weaknesses and they should be around even, however for thieves, they have more weaknesses then strengths… To contrast, mesmers have more strengths then weaknesses.

The only real improvements thieves need, is to other weapon sets besides DP, and some trait improvements to allow for more customization, because as is, we’re pigeon hold into taking trickery, DA, and for as long as condi’s are as absurdly strong as they are SA for what condi clense we can get. Further more, acro was torn to shreds and is being re-released to us as “Dare Devil” which, unfortunately, is not smart from a design POV as it means we have acro, and better acro for trait lines, and if they improve acro to the point where it’s better then DD, DD stops being used. It’s the same issue I kept telling people when they were asking for staff thief… S/D is the play style they want from staff, meaning we have two weapons that do virtually the same thing… So one will always be better and one will always be worse, as we saw last BWE when DDs were using SD over staff because staff was too weak.

I’d buff both Guardian and thieves’ HP. Paladins aren’t meant to be squishy, and thieves are kinda but not intended to be this much so.

I’d keep thief squishy but buff base HP and damage.

I’d fix acrobatics by returning it to its former glory.

I’d add an elite that grants stability and does % based damage.

Basilisk venom charge reduced, stun for 3 seconds (it is an elite skill after all some mob skills have way longer stuns than 1 second) and doesn’t make a sound or animation at the end.

Since reveal is coming I’d add a traitline in shadow arts that gives complete passive immunity to it, but to make it competitive with other GM traits will give 100% crit rate and a huge ferocity boost. I originally thought of some stacks of poison and burning, but the problem with that would be a scenario like this:

“Enemy team: Okay, they have a thief and that trickery GM trait that applies 10 stacks of poison and burn upon reveal is meta. So necromancer, it’s your job to transfer conditions after the revenant or whatever applies reveal.” This would in effect be using the thief’s GM trait against him, thus the change from conditions to guaranteed crit and big ferocity boost (don’t really know a balanced number for a gain to be honest, maybe +500 ferocity?) so it cant’ be used against him. The bonus would last as long as the revealed debuff.

That’s all I have for now.

Orpheal.8263:

• Condition Duration needs to get massively reduced for all condition skills of the whole Game. Condition Duration needs to become an overall attribute, into which Condition Players need to invest Attribute Points into to raise their overall Condition DPS. Condition players finally need to have to use more than just 1 single Attribute to maximize their DPS. They should need to have to use 3 Attibutes like Direct Damage Builds too.

This ^ So much this ^

Dire gear is a prime example of how broken condi is. You get to maximise condi damage while having ridiculous amounts of tough & Vit. There is literally no need to compromise on anything, you get the best of both worlds. Condition Duration + food should be removed and have Condi Duration added as an actual armour stat.

You raised some other good points, but this is the one I emphatically agree with.

just copy daoc problem solved. Infiltrator, shadowblade, nightshade, melee ranger…

New Deadly Arts Grandmaster (or something…idk, I’m lazy)

Any Weakness applied by Thief now reduces condition damage by 50%. Boom. Viable. (Those 4000 burning stacks? 2k now, gg rolls eyes)

On a high level I would work with the idea taking things from your opponents. This can be anything from copying special attacks to using your enemy’s body as a shield. I have this half baked idea about draining your foes endurance with a move that’s part dodge part tackle (knockdown).

Beyond that I think thieves should get skills to take advantage of vulnerability. It could be something as simple as increased crit damage or something more complex like destroying armor rating to really open the enemy to attack.

added to change wish list

Next the Utility Skills, here I’d make some greater changes.

Signets

Signet of Shadows
Passive: Grants level based Power and increases the Duration of your Stealths by 50%
Active: AoE Blind Enemies around you, gain Stealth and gain Swiftness

Signet of Agility
Passive: Grants level based Precision increased Movement Speed of +25%
Active: Removes 2 Conditions, Refills Endurance by 50% and works as Stun Breaker, giving you also some Resistance.

Signet of Infiltration
Passive: Gain increased Initiative Regen. Gain Health Back when you regain Initiative.
Active: Shadow Step to your Target. Gain Quickness and Swiftness on you turns into Super Speed. Recharges Stealth Skills by 10s if your Health was below 50%

Signet of Assassination
Passive: Increased Ferocity based on Level and killing something grants you Fury, Swiftness and Might.
Active: Your attacks within the next 5 seconds deal 20% more Damage and against downed enemies 33% more Damage.
—-

Traps

Shrapnel Trap/ Needle Mine
Lay a Trap (Mine underwater), which immobilizes, bleeds and poisons an enemy.
It will deal on trigger unblockable Damage. Underwater it is visible, but it will have therefore increased range and deals there more damage.

Reinforcing Shadow
Call on trigger (underwater just directly) a Shadow Clone of yourself that will aid you in battle for the next 25s with exactly your same build. Health Pool significantly increased, so that they also easily survive these 25s, unless when used at a totally outmanned situation. But as long its maximum 1v3, they should have enough health to survive the duration, unless it gets from all 3 for the constant time all the maximum burst damage, but then it has fulfilled its role of being an distraction at least well, if 3 targets prefer to focus themself fully on the summoned ally, instead on you to get thet summon quickly away.

Shadow Trap/Mine
Set a Trap/Mine on land which stealths you and teleports you back also with Fury to its layed position, if it gets triggered and that over a range of 5000 units.
The Underwater version will work the complete different way around, it will teleport on trigger blinded , weakened and slowed over 5000 units range the enemy that triggered it to your actual position instead of you shadowstepping to your prey.

Tripwire/ Net Mine
Lay a Tripwire, that will knockdown targets on trigger and which removes boons..
The underwater version instead will lead to enemies sinking instead immobilized on trigger.
—-

Venoms

Skale Venom
Apply Skale Venom, which lets enemies suffer on Vulnerability and Torment from your attacks within the next 5 seconds.

Ice Drake Venom
Apply Ice Drake Venom, which lets enemies suffer on Chill and Slow from your attacks within the next 5 seconds.

Spider Venom
Apply Spider Venom, which lets enemies suffer on Poison and Cripple from your attacks within the next 5 seconds

Devourer Venom
Apply Devourer Venom, which lets enemies steal Boons and get immobilized from your attacks within the next 3 seconds
—-

Tricks

Quick Roll
Roll to evade attacks, gain Quickness and Fury, works as Stun Breaker.

Caltrops
Scatter Caltrops, which will Torment and Cripple targets in its range over time.

Grappling Hook (renamed Scorpion Wire)
Pull a target to you within a range of 1200 units. If the target is heavy, then you get pulled to the target instead and daze the target. Velocity will be now affected if you are under Swiftness The Attack will be unblockable Steals a Boon from the Target.
Can be used practically in WvW now as Grappling Hook, as it will pull you up on walls if you target an heavy enemy on a Wall.

Throwing Dagger Kit
Exchanges out your Weapon Skills Bar with a Set of Throwing Dagger Skills.

1) Fan of Flying Daggers
Throw a fan of 3 Daggers which will bounce once from hit target to a nearby target.

2) Explosive Daggers
Throw Daggers to which explosive seals are attached to, that cause on impact burning and vulnerability to foes at range of the explosions.

3) Wind Daggers
Throw super fast daggers, that cause bleedings and hit all targets in a line of sight as they pierce through armor.

4) Distracting Daggers
Throw a Dagger, which will interrupt targets and causes their utility skills to get increased Recharge Times

5) Impairing Daggers
Throw Daggers at a target which will slow, immobilize and poison the target.
—-

Deceptions

Shadow Refuge
Causes no viewable red circle anymore. You and up to 5 Allies gain Stealth and Regeneration per Pulse. Shadow Refuge will pulse 5x granting each pulse 3s of Stealth and Regeneration. If it granted on 4 pulses its Boons without being hit, you gain on 5th pulse also 3s of Resistance.

Smoke Bomb
Shadow Step to your Ground target and throw a Smoke Bomb on that Position to cause a Smoke Screen that will block projectile attacks and blinds enemies that come in contact with it.
Becomes Shadow Return letting you return to your Starting Position, losing 3 Conditions

Shadow Pilfer
Shadow Step to your Target, deal damage and steal the Shadow of your Enemy, causing the Enemy to lose half of its Endurance, while you gain 50% Endurance back.

Path of Darkness
Create a Path of Darkness for the next few seconds in front of you, which blinds foes in its area of effect over time per second/pulse and grants you and nearby allies stealths.
—-

Physicals

Ascetic’s Defense
Evade all incoming attacks for the next few seconds and perform at the end of the evade phase a sweeping kick like a dragon’s tail that will knock all foes around you down, while working as strun breaker.

Palm Strike
Strike your foe once to deal massive Damage that will launch the foe away from you with such a force behind the attack, that it will deliver few seconds later more damage from Pulmonary Impact. A foe, that suffers damage from Pulmonary Impact won’t be able to perform for some seconds Dodge Rolls and Invulnerability Effects turn into just Damage Reductions

Roundhouse Kicks
Perform several Roundhouse Kicks with that you will deal damage to all nearby targets and which functionate as Whirl Finishers, while creating around you a whirling wind, that will reflect also projectiles.

Grab & Throw
Grab an enemy and throw it into an other enemy, dealing that way damage to multiple enemies.

So, now the next part

Elite Skills

Basilisk Venom
Apply Basilisk Venom, which disables enemies to use Dodge Rolls while they are petrified for a while after Petrification ends and immobilizes hit fors for the next 5 seconds of duration. So time this Skill right and you can immobilize a foe for up to 5 seconds maximum against a foe with no stun breaks literally.

Daggerstorm/ (Dagger Spiral underwater)
Spin around reflecting projectiles and your thrown daggers deal Cripple, Torment and Poison. So more enemies are around you, so higher will be the chance, that your thrown daggers will also bounce between targets, making this skill in large enemy crowds even deadlier.
While you spin for the next 10 seconds you gain periodically per second Stability, Resistance and Protection, where Stability procts always last to get covered by protection and Resistance, so that this Elite skill can’t be anymore instantly interrupted by a single silly boon corrupting Fear so easily -.- the counterplay of this skill should be melee combat (and was that also from begin on) and not Fear. Recharge Time is now 60s instead of 90s.
Daggerstorm is used as a Crowd Breaker to force a big amount of players to spread out and not stack together, while punishing enemies that use mindless projectile spam in zergs.

Shadow Clones (renamed Thieves Guild)
Summon for 30 seconds two Shadow Clones, which aid you in combat with helpful effective support and control builds, while having enough health to actually easily survive also those 30 seconds to be actually worthful as an Elite Skill.
The attacks of those Shadow Clones heal you and remove conditions periodically over the course of the 30s, basically every 3s. While they are up, last your Stealths 50% longer. Their attacks don’t remove your Stealth as the damage doesn’t come from you personaly, but from a different origin. recharge Time is reduced from 180s to 120s

I might make a few tweaks here or there, but the simplest change I’d make is to remove any change made to the class over the past three years. The launch version was the best version, it’s just been downhill from there.

Orpheal.8263:

Specializations will follow later placeholder

This guy’s suggestion has been sponsored and funded by Michael Bay.

The name of elite spec is actually " Solid Snake."

dat backward Cluster Bomb on dodge doe.
and dat Smoke trail on dodge doe…

edit: By Michael Bay and Tony Jaa

Kocoff.7582:

Orpheal.8263:

Specializations will follow later placeholder

This guy’s suggestion has been sponsored and funded by Michael Bay.

The name of elite spec is actually " Solid Snake."

dat backward Cluster Bomb on dodge doe.
and dat Smoke trail on dodge doe…

edit: By Michael Bay and Tony Jaa

Needs more cardboard box and cigarettes to live up to Snake.

Selver.1307:

Kocoff.7582:

Orpheal.8263:

Specializations will follow later placeholder

This guy’s suggestion has been sponsored and funded by Michael Bay.

The name of elite spec is actually " Solid Snake."

dat backward Cluster Bomb on dodge doe.
and dat Smoke trail on dodge doe…

edit: By Michael Bay and Tony Jaa

Needs more cardboard box and cigarettes to live up to Snake.

Alright then, Ryu Hayabusa ?

Explosive daggers, some of them are really close to Ninpos.

I’d leave our base HP alone but give us much better cleanse against damaging conditions.

If our primary defense is supposed to be not getting hit, it shouldn’t be so easy to undo that by applying DoTs that invalidate the evades and stealth we rely on to avoid taking damage.

Thieves should be scared of big, direct, up front hits, and the proper counter should be catching us with our pants down and no way to clear snares or stuns, but we should be quite resilient against damaging conditions as they deal far more damage per successful hit than white/crit strikes, and it would simply be borked to design us in such a way that we could evade/stealth every single incoming attack

So, with this design, we’d still be largely reliant on active defenses, but people would have to actually work and try to land big attacks rather than spam conditions because after a certain point they’re all going to stick.

If that’s done, I feel it’s fair to be so glassy, provided we keep our mobility and primary forms of active defense, with perhaps more supplemental life on hit mechanics to add sustain rather than core defenses, again, to make defeating thieves around securing cc and big hits while making them waste init and cooldowns on avoiding little ones.

Bump pistol damage. Raise our health pool from the cellar. Add a second on basilisk.

That’d be cool.

First thing I would do is revert SA (you guys guessed that, I know)!
Then I would have a long talk to the other balance team members and adjust the damage output and passive invulnerabilities all classes have got. With that thief healthpool should be okayish again as currently most classes hit harder but have their invulnerabilities, their health regen, their higher health pool, their longer stealth…

That would be the start to make thief at least half playable again.
Then I would think about buffing SB poison duration again, maybe add blind to CnD, interrupt to Dancing Dagger – but with that CiS might be obsolete, so I’d have to think about new traits. I would also revert a lot of what has been nerfed because new traits buffed it (stolen items, poison) as all thieves need it but only few have access to “its former” power.
I would change SE to either how it has been or make a priority of what is cleansed first (most damaging condition or most stacks) and maybe add a trait that removes immobilized and fear on stealth, like former SE did.

The reveal stuff is a tough one, even if a thief still gets everything he can from SR (it heals too) and SA and still maintains his 100% crit on the next hit (if traited), he still is visible, so I would give him some sort of invulnerability since a huge part of thief’s defense is that the enemy can’t see where he’s exactly at.

And I would grant signet of shadows a 33% passive speed boost and stealth+ blind when activated – that would be something for me!

Again, written from my point of view, I know there’s a lot of stuff wrong with thief right now and that other builds need a lot more than what I listed.

I still want to be an underdog (I would quit thief if it were “Mesmer-Op”), but I want to have a chance.

Edit: Spelling

With my Concept I try to want to follow just a few Main Goals that should help the Thief to become again for itself competitive on a similar level of Warriors, Mesmers and Elementalists.

The whole Thief Gameplay is currently lacking massively a clear vision of what the Role of a Thief is in combat. and to make right of the start one thign clear – +1 is not a role, its a very bad and thoughtless game design result of permanently nerfing thief from patch to patch to death slowly, while givign all other Classes, especially with the last patch obscene total absurd power creep.

So this are the things, in which a Thief should be baselined superior in this game and clearly sublime over all other classes that can use these mechanics too. but the Thief should be in these thigns just the best, as it are mechanics , which DEFINE what a thief is and what a thief constantly tries to DO.

• Stealth – Its the absolute Brandmark Mechanic if the Class, this mechanic is so heavily intertwined with the whole Class, that it completely decides over it, if we have a chance to win, or not.
  Having any Classes in there game, like the Mesmer or the Scrapper, which are at Stealth currently (or soon) totally superior at Stealth compared to a Thief is completely unacceptable!! Thieves need to have the best Stealth from all Classes with the longest durations and the best effects while being stealthed, thats for why we have Shadow Arts in the end since game release, as its a whole Trait Line that when used should make a Thief the absolute best Stealthers of the whole game!!

• Boon Stealing – This is the next thing in which Thieves need to be absolute sublime in over any other Classes. Thieves should not have problems getting ANY Boons, because they should be baselined inherentry constantly trying to steal from the enemy – whatever they can to weaken them and at the same time to empower themself with what they have stolen. The Thief Class lives from the motto of “Fight Fire with Fire”, so its absolutely needed to find this alot more significantly also in the Gameplay of the Thief.
  This should be solved via 2 significant bigger changes.
  1) Improving the whole Steal System to 4 different Steal Skills for F1-F4
  2) Making Boon Stealing alot more existent in the whole Thief Design ,be it in Weapon Skills, be it from Traits. When you play a Thief, you should get the feeling, that he is constantly stealing Boons from enemies in his reach. All Skills that give the Thief Boons, or all Traits that give the Thief Boons shouldn’t give him Boons, because of that beign their own powers, but because they have stolen them from foes.
  Thief needs to be come the absolute natural nemesis for all super boon heavy builds (Bunker Guards, Eles, Revenants) to deny them their super OP defense and heath regeneration, and high might stacks, while receiving these things at the same tiem from enemies, if an enemy is so thoughtless to burst all of its boons up against a thief just to get them all stolen seconds later….
  Boon Steal is the by design unique gameplay mechanic of a thief and his role as a Frontline Controler whose work it is to deny the enemy to have too much Boons.

• Dodging – The Daredevil will adress this now with the Elite Specialization will become thieves the best Dodgers of the Game. Thieves were that already before of the Daredavil, however, to cripple down Acrobatics, just to give Daredevil a reason for existance is not correct. Acrobatics needs to get changed and buffed, so that it actually is becoming again a trait line, that is worth it to be used and which in combination with Daredevil offers also great synergies, so that Daredevil actually feels like a great synergizing Speazialization that you will want to combine with Acrobatics and not more like an Acrobatics replacement…

• Single Target Hunter
  Thieves need to become alot strogner, like they were once in 1v1 situations. Thats they Speciality to take down very quickly single targets to slowly decrease in a massive battle the numbers of the enemy side. For that sole reason does exist the D/D weapon set to be able with to to take out quickly with it single target.
  Backstab is just too weak for that for all the required positioning and the very short stealth time window that CoD gives you for that moment of burst damage.
  The reason for it being too weak is, because Backstab should have a baselined 100% crit rate. You freaking ATTACK SOMEONE OUT OF !SURPRISE! FROM BEHIND IN A DEFENSELESS POSITION, such an attack should always be critical.

That Hidden Thief trait just needs to become finally baselined, so that all your Stealth Attacks are always 100% critical. Would give the devs also the chance to give the thief an more useful new trait as replacement for that old trait.

• Weaknesses must get finally adressed.
  The Thief is way too much reliant on Stealth and Dodges, it has absolutely no plain stupid and unrealistical God Mode Invulnerability Skills or constant Blocking Skills.
  All of the damage mitagations the thief has absolutely help not agaisnt Conditions, the Thief has the lowest health pool and despite of having more defense than an Elementalist from equipment, they are the squishiest class of all, because we lack the superior self heal and self condi removal that the Ele has and we lack the options to mitigate conditions.

So change balance changes to solve this, without giving the thief also plain stupid god mode skilsl liek the warrior/guardian… would be to make these changes:

• Give the Thief more Resistance through letting them steal it, remember, Boon Steal
• Also add resistance more to Sigils, Runes, this Boon is just plain too less implemented in th game for the current balance condition fiasco!
• Change Weakness to affect also Condition Damage and reduce Condition Durations! Or add a need Condition to which Thieves have access to that actualyl does this, reducing Condition Damage and outgoing Durations, something like Fatigue (from all the chasign of Thieves…). If Condition Damage wouldn’t be so out of control right now, then there is also no need to raise the Base Health of Thieves, but I think it would be anyways best for the game to stop balancing Base Health afterClass typers and instead balance Base Health for each Class individually and raise the Base Health from a Thief from its lousy 11000 to a respectable needed 20000 as long nothing gets done about the condition mess and Conditions in itself stay liek they are now, that they absolutely ignore all kinds of defense and mitiagations, except Ressitance, which is imo a Boon that should have existed since release of the game and be fleshed out far more by now in the whole game…because then we wouldn’t have all these condition problems now….

Orpheal.8263:

• Boon Stealing – This is the next thing in which Thieves need to be absolute sublime in over any other Classes. Thieves should not have problems getting ANY Boons, because they should be baselined inherentry constantly trying to steal from the enemy – whatever they can to weaken them and at the same time to empower themself with what they have stolen. The Thief Class lives from the motto of “Fight Fire with Fire”, so its absolutely needed to find this alot more significantly also in the Gameplay of the Thief.
  This should be solved via 2 significant bigger changes.
  1) Improving the whole Steal System to 4 different Steal Skills for F1-F4
  2) Making Boon Stealing alot more existent in the whole Thief Design ,be it in Weapon Skills, be it from Traits. When you play a Thief, you should get the feeling, that he is constantly stealing Boons from enemies in his reach. All Skills that give the Thief Boons, or all Traits that give the Thief Boons shouldn’t give him Boons, because of that beign their own powers, but because they have stolen them from foes.
  Thief needs to be come the absolute natural nemesis for all super boon heavy builds (Bunker Guards, Eles, Revenants) to deny them their super OP defense and heath regeneration, and high might stacks, while receiving these things at the same tiem from enemies, if an enemy is so thoughtless to burst all of its boons up against a thief just to get them all stolen seconds later….
  Boon Steal is the by design unique gameplay mechanic of a thief and his role as a Frontline Controler whose work it is to deny the enemy to have too much Boons.

This this this this this
We’re Thieves
We should be Thieving
This really should be a no-brainer, and it’s weird that we’re not already super great at this.
Honestly, we should be relatively limited in the type of boons we can naturally generate as Thieves… but that limit should be entirely removed in two situations: Stealing boons from other professions/enemies, and stolen items… which should be a lot more useful, honestly. A lot of the stolen items we get are pretty pointless as-is.